(03-15-2013 06:15 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 05:51 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:39 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:21 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  The Acc actually now has more national names than the Big 12.

Big 12- Texas, Oklahoma and maybe WV

ACC- Miami, VT, Clemson and FSU.

If you accept that, it means the Big 12 has 30% and the ACC 28.6%.

Not only are there more national brands but the second tier in the ACC has more recognition too

Surprised that people just flatout forgot the two biggest ACC Brands....North Carolina & Duke...

That's the ACCs problem, when was the last time one of the ACC's two biggest brands made noise in football. When people think of the ACC basketball comes to mind first as oppose to the other majors.

It doesn't matter if they win in Football...as far as brand names they are along with Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, UCLA, USC. & Alabama the Top sellers in the Nation.

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(03-15-2013 03:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:21 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 12:47 PM)bearcat29 Wrote:  

Quote:Since the ACC is still very much alive, your chart just says that a conference can't survive having Rice, TCU and SMU as members.

Its easy to see there is still going to be movement regarding the former BCS conferences.
1. Relatively safe to say SEC, B10, PAC12 are not going to lose anyone.

2. The ACC is the "weakest" of the 5 because of a more basketball focus than any of the other conferences. Smaller stadiums, fan bases and less national names.

The Acc actually now has more national names than the Big 12.

Big 12- Texas, Oklahoma and maybe WV

ACC- Miami, VT, Clemson and FSU.

If you accept that, it means the Big 12 has 30% and the ACC 28.6%.

Nice spin, but the Acc still has MORE actual national names. And as its been poointed out, the second tier teams of Louisville, Georgia Tech, Pitt Syracuse and NC State are much better known than the likes of Texas Tech, Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Iowa State etc.....

You will find people sport'n UNC, Duke, FSU, Miami & Syracuse gear in all 50 States

(03-15-2013 09:12 PM)Maize Wrote:  You will find people sport'n UNC, Duke, FSU, Miami & Syracuse gear in all 50 States

Only FSU and Miami are sported during football season. UNC and Duke are strictly basketball schools, and it's been a while since Syracuse did anything significant in football...

BTW, cuse fans, the Pinstripe Bowl doesn't count as significant. It's a minor bowl...

(03-15-2013 09:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:12 PM)Maize Wrote:  You will find people sport'n UNC, Duke, FSU, Miami & Syracuse gear in all 50 States

Only FSU and Miami are sported during football season. UNC and Duke are strictly basketball schools, and it's been a while since Syracuse did anything significant in football...

BTW, cuse fans, the Pinstripe Bowl doesn't count as significant. It's a minor bowl...

How about beating the snot out of the Eers very badly the last 3 times we played?

(03-15-2013 07:30 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 06:15 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 05:51 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:39 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  If you accept that, it means the Big 12 has 30% and the ACC 28.6%.

Not only are there more national brands but the second tier in the ACC has more recognition too

Surprised that people just flatout forgot the two biggest ACC Brands....North Carolina & Duke...

That's the ACCs problem, when was the last time one of the ACC's two biggest brands made noise in football. When people think of the ACC basketball comes to mind first as oppose to the other majors.

It doesn't matter if they win in Football...as far as brand names they are along with Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, UCLA, USC. & Alabama the Top sellers in the Nation.

If basketball branding counts, then the Big 12 just tallied another top-tier brand with Kansas. Admittedly, there's not much depth behind that in hoops historically.

As for fixing the ACC, personally I think that there's a lot to like about the ACC, and they've got a lot of fundamental strength that many don't recognize. I think that if they can get 2 or 3 good football coaching hires and build up a couple of brands to top-tier success, it would go a long way. While their fanbases may largely be more basketball focused than football focused, there's still a lot of passion for football and talent from which to recruit in the conference's footprint.

Kansas has a very strong brand along with excellent academics...earlier in this thread someone posted WVU was one of the Top 3 Brands in the Big XII...in reality only Texas & Oklahoma have a stronger overall brand then the Jayhawks.

(03-15-2013 09:43 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:12 PM)Maize Wrote:  You will find people sport'n UNC, Duke, FSU, Miami & Syracuse gear in all 50 States

Only FSU and Miami are sported during football season. UNC and Duke are strictly basketball schools, and it's been a while since Syracuse did anything significant in football...

BTW, cuse fans, the Pinstripe Bowl doesn't count as significant. It's a minor bowl...

How about beating the snot out of the Eers very badly the last 3 times we played?

How many BCS bowls have the Orange won lately?

(03-16-2013 10:42 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:43 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:12 PM)Maize Wrote:  You will find people sport'n UNC, Duke, FSU, Miami & Syracuse gear in all 50 States

Only FSU and Miami are sported during football season. UNC and Duke are strictly basketball schools, and it's been a while since Syracuse did anything significant in football...

BTW, cuse fans, the Pinstripe Bowl doesn't count as significant. It's a minor bowl...

How about beating the snot out of the Eers very badly the last 3 times we played?

How many BCS bowls have the Orange won lately?

The Orange havent won any lately. But I like reminding WV fans how they have been taken to the woodshed by SU the last 3 years, since you guys used to let SU fans have it when you and everyone else were doing it to us.

(03-15-2013 09:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:21 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 12:47 PM)bearcat29 Wrote:  

Quote:Since the ACC is still very much alive, your chart just says that a conference can't survive having Rice, TCU and SMU as members.

Its easy to see there is still going to be movement regarding the former BCS conferences.
1. Relatively safe to say SEC, B10, PAC12 are not going to lose anyone.

2. The ACC is the "weakest" of the 5 because of a more basketball focus than any of the other conferences. Smaller stadiums, fan bases and less national names.

The Acc actually now has more national names than the Big 12.

Big 12- Texas, Oklahoma and maybe WV

ACC- Miami, VT, Clemson and FSU.

If you accept that, it means the Big 12 has 30% and the ACC 28.6%.

Nice spin, but the Acc still has MORE actual national names. And as its been poointed out, the second tier teams of Louisville, Georgia Tech, Pitt Syracuse and NC State are much better known than the likes of Texas Tech, Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Iowa State etc.....

That's your east coast perception. And its definitely true in ACC territory (except you're wrong about Kansas-they all know about Kansas in ACC basketball country). But the opposite is true in the Great Plains.

(03-16-2013 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:21 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 12:47 PM)bearcat29 Wrote:  Its easy to see there is still going to be movement regarding the former BCS conferences.
1. Relatively safe to say SEC, B10, PAC12 are not going to lose anyone.

2. The ACC is the "weakest" of the 5 because of a more basketball focus than any of the other conferences. Smaller stadiums, fan bases and less national names.

The Acc actually now has more national names than the Big 12.

Big 12- Texas, Oklahoma and maybe WV

ACC- Miami, VT, Clemson and FSU.

If you accept that, it means the Big 12 has 30% and the ACC 28.6%.

Nice spin, but the Acc still has MORE actual national names. And as its been poointed out, the second tier teams of Louisville, Georgia Tech, Pitt Syracuse and NC State are much better known than the likes of Texas Tech, Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Iowa State etc.....

That's your east coast perception. And its definitely true in ACC territory (except you're wrong about Kansas-they all know about Kansas in ACC basketball country). But the opposite is true in the Great Plains.

I was only posting about football. You dont really want to add basketball to this do you? Its simply no contest if we add the national names for fb and bb. Football is close, even though I would give the edge to the Acc with 4 national names. But basketball, who else is there besides Kansas? The Big 12 has the Acc beat with fb fanbases. But its also no contest for bb fanbases. Thats a landslide win for the Acc, SU, Louisville and UNC are all top 5 in attendance.

(03-16-2013 01:01 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:21 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  The Acc actually now has more national names than the Big 12.

Big 12- Texas, Oklahoma and maybe WV

ACC- Miami, VT, Clemson and FSU.

If you accept that, it means the Big 12 has 30% and the ACC 28.6%.

Nice spin, but the Acc still has MORE actual national names. And as its been poointed out, the second tier teams of Louisville, Georgia Tech, Pitt Syracuse and NC State are much better known than the likes of Texas Tech, Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Iowa State etc.....

That's your east coast perception. And its definitely true in ACC territory (except you're wrong about Kansas-they all know about Kansas in ACC basketball country). But the opposite is true in the Great Plains.

I was only posting about football. You dont really want to add basketball to this do you? Its simply no contest if we add the national names for fb and bb. Football is close, even though I would give the edge to the Acc with 4 national names. But basketball, who else is there besides Kansas? The Big 12 has the Acc beat with fb fanbases. But its also no contest for bb fanbases. Thats a landslide win for the Acc, SU, Louisville and UNC are all top 5 in attendance.

I agree with your point, but the Big XII does have more than Kansas. West Virginia, Oklahoma State, and even Texas are nationally recognized basketball programs. None are on a level with Kansas obviously, but all compare well the second tier of nationally recognized programs from any other conference.

(03-16-2013 01:01 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:21 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  The Acc actually now has more national names than the Big 12.

Big 12- Texas, Oklahoma and maybe WV

ACC- Miami, VT, Clemson and FSU.

If you accept that, it means the Big 12 has 30% and the ACC 28.6%.

Nice spin, but the Acc still has MORE actual national names. And as its been poointed out, the second tier teams of Louisville, Georgia Tech, Pitt Syracuse and NC State are much better known than the likes of Texas Tech, Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Iowa State etc.....

That's your east coast perception. And its definitely true in ACC territory (except you're wrong about Kansas-they all know about Kansas in ACC basketball country). But the opposite is true in the Great Plains.

I was only posting about football. You dont really want to add basketball to this do you? Its simply no contest if we add the national names for fb and bb. Football is close, even though I would give the edge to the Acc with 4 national names. But basketball, who else is there besides Kansas? The Big 12 has the Acc beat with fb fanbases. But its also no contest for bb fanbases. Thats a landslide win for the Acc, SU, Louisville and UNC are all top 5 in attendance.

If you were talking about basketball, you would have a better argument. Most fans probably don't know that SU won an MNC in 1959 and had Csonka and Brown. A lot of people don't realize Pitt won an MNC in the 70s. But they will know that Baylor had a Heisman winner the year before last. They might remember Kansas went to the Orange Bowl and beat an ACC school and was ranked as high as #2. Texas Tech was ranked as high as #2 the year after that. Kansas St. and Oklahoma St. were 1 upset loss away (to Baylor and Iowa St.) from being in the title game the last 2 years. They will remember WVU beating the ACC champ 70-33 and might know they have as many BCS wins as the entire ACC and have been ranked as high as #2. They will remember TCU finishing #2 2 years ago and winning the Rose Bowl. The 10 Big 12 teams include 8 who have won a BCS title or been 1 loss (or someone else's loss in the case of TCU) from being in the title game. And, of course, that also applies to Colorado, Missouri and Nebraska when they were in the Big 12.

So in ACC land they may well value the local schools more, but that doesn't mean its national. The ACC is nationally viewed as a pretty weak football conference (probably viewed worse than they deserve).

(03-16-2013 01:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 01:01 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 03:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  If you accept that, it means the Big 12 has 30% and the ACC 28.6%.

Nice spin, but the Acc still has MORE actual national names. And as its been poointed out, the second tier teams of Louisville, Georgia Tech, Pitt Syracuse and NC State are much better known than the likes of Texas Tech, Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Iowa State etc.....

That's your east coast perception. And its definitely true in ACC territory (except you're wrong about Kansas-they all know about Kansas in ACC basketball country). But the opposite is true in the Great Plains.

I was only posting about football. You dont really want to add basketball to this do you? Its simply no contest if we add the national names for fb and bb. Football is close, even though I would give the edge to the Acc with 4 national names. But basketball, who else is there besides Kansas? The Big 12 has the Acc beat with fb fanbases. But its also no contest for bb fanbases. Thats a landslide win for the Acc, SU, Louisville and UNC are all top 5 in attendance.

If you were talking about basketball, you would have a better argument. Most fans probably don't know that SU won an MNC in 1959 and had Csonka and Brown. A lot of people don't realize Pitt won an MNC in the 70s. But they will know that Baylor had a Heisman winner the year before last. They might remember Kansas went to the Orange Bowl and beat an ACC school and was ranked as high as #2. Texas Tech was ranked as high as #2 the year after that. Kansas St. and Oklahoma St. were 1 upset loss away (to Baylor and Iowa St.) from being in the title game the last 2 years. They will remember WVU beating the ACC champ 70-33 and might know they have as many BCS wins as the entire ACC and have been ranked as high as #2. They will remember TCU finishing #2 2 years ago and winning the Rose Bowl. The 10 Big 12 teams include 8 who have won a BCS title or been 1 loss (or someone else's loss in the case of TCU) from being in the title game. And, of course, that also applies to Colorado, Missouri and Nebraska when they were in the Big 12.
So in ACC land they may well value the local schools more, but that doesn't mean its national. The ACC is nationally viewed as a pretty weak football conference (probably viewed worse than they deserve).

But to be honest most fans wouldn't remember most of this.

(03-16-2013 02:07 PM)lazydawg58 Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 01:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 01:01 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:06 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  Nice spin, but the Acc still has MORE actual national names. And as its been poointed out, the second tier teams of Louisville, Georgia Tech, Pitt Syracuse and NC State are much better known than the likes of Texas Tech, Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Iowa State etc.....

That's your east coast perception. And its definitely true in ACC territory (except you're wrong about Kansas-they all know about Kansas in ACC basketball country). But the opposite is true in the Great Plains.

I was only posting about football. You dont really want to add basketball to this do you? Its simply no contest if we add the national names for fb and bb. Football is close, even though I would give the edge to the Acc with 4 national names. But basketball, who else is there besides Kansas? The Big 12 has the Acc beat with fb fanbases. But its also no contest for bb fanbases. Thats a landslide win for the Acc, SU, Louisville and UNC are all top 5 in attendance.

If you were talking about basketball, you would have a better argument. Most fans probably don't know that SU won an MNC in 1959 and had Csonka and Brown. A lot of people don't realize Pitt won an MNC in the 70s. But they will know that Baylor had a Heisman winner the year before last. They might remember Kansas went to the Orange Bowl and beat an ACC school and was ranked as high as #2. Texas Tech was ranked as high as #2 the year after that. Kansas St. and Oklahoma St. were 1 upset loss away (to Baylor and Iowa St.) from being in the title game the last 2 years. They will remember WVU beating the ACC champ 70-33 and might know they have as many BCS wins as the entire ACC and have been ranked as high as #2. They will remember TCU finishing #2 2 years ago and winning the Rose Bowl. The 10 Big 12 teams include 8 who have won a BCS title or been 1 loss (or someone else's loss in the case of TCU) from being in the title game. And, of course, that also applies to Colorado, Missouri and Nebraska when they were in the Big 12.
So in ACC land they may well value the local schools more, but that doesn't mean its national. The ACC is nationally viewed as a pretty weak football conference (probably viewed worse than they deserve).

But to be honest most fans wouldn't remember most of this.

LOL, very true.

(03-16-2013 02:27 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 02:07 PM)lazydawg58 Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 01:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 01:01 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  That's your east coast perception. And its definitely true in ACC territory (except you're wrong about Kansas-they all know about Kansas in ACC basketball country). But the opposite is true in the Great Plains.

I was only posting about football. You dont really want to add basketball to this do you? Its simply no contest if we add the national names for fb and bb. Football is close, even though I would give the edge to the Acc with 4 national names. But basketball, who else is there besides Kansas? The Big 12 has the Acc beat with fb fanbases. But its also no contest for bb fanbases. Thats a landslide win for the Acc, SU, Louisville and UNC are all top 5 in attendance.

If you were talking about basketball, you would have a better argument. Most fans probably don't know that SU won an MNC in 1959 and had Csonka and Brown. A lot of people don't realize Pitt won an MNC in the 70s. But they will know that Baylor had a Heisman winner the year before last. They might remember Kansas went to the Orange Bowl and beat an ACC school and was ranked as high as #2. Texas Tech was ranked as high as #2 the year after that. Kansas St. and Oklahoma St. were 1 upset loss away (to Baylor and Iowa St.) from being in the title game the last 2 years. They will remember WVU beating the ACC champ 70-33 and might know they have as many BCS wins as the entire ACC and have been ranked as high as #2. They will remember TCU finishing #2 2 years ago and winning the Rose Bowl. The 10 Big 12 teams include 8 who have won a BCS title or been 1 loss (or someone else's loss in the case of TCU) from being in the title game. And, of course, that also applies to Colorado, Missouri and Nebraska when they were in the Big 12.
So in ACC land they may well value the local schools more, but that doesn't mean its national. The ACC is nationally viewed as a pretty weak football conference (probably viewed worse than they deserve).

But to be honest most fans wouldn't remember most of this.

LOL, very true.

Most ACC fans. That's the problem!

(03-16-2013 12:12 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 10:42 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:43 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:12 PM)Maize Wrote:  You will find people sport'n UNC, Duke, FSU, Miami & Syracuse gear in all 50 States

Only FSU and Miami are sported during football season. UNC and Duke are strictly basketball schools, and it's been a while since Syracuse did anything significant in football...

BTW, cuse fans, the Pinstripe Bowl doesn't count as significant. It's a minor bowl...

How about beating the snot out of the Eers very badly the last 3 times we played?

How many BCS bowls have the Orange won lately?

The Orange havent won any lately. But I like reminding WV fans how they have been taken to the woodshed by SU the last 3 years, since you guys used to let SU fans have it when you and everyone else were doing it to us.

Oneupmanship is part and parcel of rivalries. I wouldn't expect anything less from you, dude...