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Two different philosophies in realignment!
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #1
Two different philosophies in realignment!
Posted this link in a different thread but really think it deserves a stand alone thread. I see the battle lines being drawn between like minded conferences. The SEC/Big 12 model verses the B1G/ACC/Pac model.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2013...lation.htm


excerpt:



Jim Delany’s threat to reclassify to Division III or deemphasize athletics like the Ivy League makes sense against this backdrop. Both the Ivies and DIII schools are known for sponsoring more sports and spending more evenly across all those sports (albeit spending any order of magnitude less in the case of DIII schools). The Big Ten, as well as the Pac–12 and the ACC, have generally sponsored more sports than the SEC or Big XII.

If football spending is further deregulated, from relatively minor things like additional staff and FedEx fees up to larger issues like stipends and player compensation, Division I will have to move toward the SEC/Big XII model of offering close to the minimum number of sports on the men’s side and just enough on the women’s side to satisfy Title IX. Meanwhile the Big Ten wants to expand into new sports like ice hockey and lacrosse.

In that future, the Big Ten is philosophically closer to Division III or the Ivy League than it is to the SEC. To catch-up to the SEC, it would need to disband teams wholesale. A whole conference closing up teams in the way Maryland and Cal originally did over the last few years is a very tough sell. Then again, so is dropping between one and three levels of football and basketball competition. The real question would be just how much the Big Ten values competing against like-minded schools.
03-21-2013 12:51 PM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
Talk about an idle threat. Just trying to scare Congress into keeping their hands off.
03-21-2013 12:57 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 12:51 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Posted this link in a different thread but really think it deserves a stand alone thread. I see the battle lines being drawn between like minded conferences. The SEC/Big 12 model verses the B1G/ACC/Pac model.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2013...lation.htm


excerpt:



Jim Delany’s threat to reclassify to Division III or deemphasize athletics like the Ivy League makes sense against this backdrop. Both the Ivies and DIII schools are known for sponsoring more sports and spending more evenly across all those sports (albeit spending any order of magnitude less in the case of DIII schools). The Big Ten, as well as the Pac–12 and the ACC, have generally sponsored more sports than the SEC or Big XII.

If football spending is further deregulated, from relatively minor things like additional staff and FedEx fees up to larger issues like stipends and player compensation, Division I will have to move toward the SEC/Big XII model of offering close to the minimum number of sports on the men’s side and just enough on the women’s side to satisfy Title IX. Meanwhile the Big Ten wants to expand into new sports like ice hockey and lacrosse.

In that future, the Big Ten is philosophically closer to Division III or the Ivy League than it is to the SEC. To catch-up to the SEC, it would need to disband teams wholesale. A whole conference closing up teams in the way Maryland and Cal originally did over the last few years is a very tough sell. Then again, so is dropping between one and three levels of football and basketball competition. The real question would be just how much the Big Ten values competing against like-minded schools.

On the other hand, when you see Ohio St.'s sports list, you have to ask why? 33 sports?

There aren't that many that are national and only a few that are particularly popular regionally.
M/W basketball
M/W soccer
M/W cross country
M/W indoor track
M/W outdoor track
M/W tennis
M/W golf
M/W swimming
Baseball
W Softball
Football
W volleyball

That's 20 sports. Now many schools are picking up women's rowing simply to offset the scholarships in men's football. That gets you to 21.

The rest are regional or have limited interest. Men's volleyball, M/W water polo, M/W lacrosse, M/W gymnastics, Men's hockey, Men's wrestling (there are a handful of women's hockey and women's wrestling teams). After that you get into bowling, rifle, squash, fencing, equestrian and competitive cheer. What benefit does the university get by having intercollegiate competition, coaches and scholarships for all of this?
03-21-2013 01:03 PM
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Dasville Offline
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RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
I have a young son and a daughter, both of which are very athletic. Should I direct them away from sports they enjoy and excel in so that one day, they may be eligible for a scholarship?
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2013 01:12 PM by Dasville.)
03-21-2013 01:11 PM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 01:11 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I have a young son and a daughter, both of which are very athletic. Should I direct them away from sports they enjoy and excel in so that one day, they may be eligible for a scholarship?

Within reason, absolutely.
03-21-2013 01:20 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 01:11 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I have a young son and a daughter, both of which are very athletic. Should I direct them away from sports they enjoy and excel in so that one day, they may be eligible for a scholarship?

I would say no, but at the same time, I'd try to get them interested in some other sports as well. Let them know that the sport that they may want to play the most they may not get a scholarship in (but still encourage them to excell and enjoy themselves in it regardless), and they may need to look at getting into another sport in order to get that scholly.
03-21-2013 01:27 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
The author is correct in that the SEC/Big 12 model is fundamentally different from the ACC/PAC/B1G model.

However, in comparing the models, the article is looking at it from an SEC point of view. The author views the SEC's model as a "monetary advantage" because he only cares about football. That's fine, but from the Big 10's point of view, this is not an advantage. By the Big 10's standard, the Big 10 has a big advantage over the SEC because they offer more sports.

If push came to shove, the Big 10, PAC, and ACC would absolutely leave D-1a over the issue of paying players. This is not a bluff. The only question is whether the smaller conferences would stick with the SEC/Big 12. Some of them will, but a lot of them won't. If enough of them don't stick around, the SEC/Big 12 will cave.
03-21-2013 01:40 PM
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RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 01:40 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The author is correct in that the SEC/Big 12 model is fundamentally different from the ACC/PAC/B1G model.

However, in comparing the models, the article is looking at it from an SEC point of view. The author views the SEC's model as a "monetary advantage" because he only cares about football. That's fine, but from the Big 10's point of view, this is not an advantage. By the Big 10's standard, the Big 10 has a big advantage over the SEC because they offer more sports.

If push came to shove, the Big 10, PAC, and ACC would absolutely leave D-1a over the issue of paying players. This is not a bluff. The only question is whether the smaller conferences would stick with the SEC/Big 12. Some of them will, but a lot of them won't. If enough of them don't stick around, the SEC/Big 12 will cave.

I don't think the Big 12 would pay players. The smaller conferences couldn't afford to. Except in the south, they would be delighted to cut costs and join the B1G, ACC and Pac 12.
03-21-2013 03:22 PM
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mikeinsec127 Offline
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RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
I understand the B12/SEC model. Football drives the bus. That is their money sport and everything else is secondary. Point taken.

The BIG/Pac12/acc model is just as good if not better. A poster asked why 33 sports for OSU and mentioned that many are regional or non revenue. Well, if you are the BIG and you have four channels broadcasting 24/7 you need that many sports to allow for constant fresh programing inventory. Those regional sports fit perfectly with the regional target of your network. Hockey may not pack them in to an arena or drive ratings in the SEC, but it does in the BIG.

What the SEC is going to find out with its own network is that MORE sports are going to be needed to fill programing time. I expect to see live Olympic sports being aired during the afternoon leading into an evening of live football/basketball. Expect to see all big 5 playing Thursday and Friday night games to fill air time.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2013 10:25 PM by mikeinsec127.)
03-21-2013 05:12 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 01:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  What benefit does the university get by having intercollegiate competition, coaches and scholarships for all of this?

College athletes, especially in the non-revenue sports, have higher GPAs, graduate at a higher rate, are more engaged on campus, they speak positively of the university in most settings, and are more involved as giving Alumni than most regular students.

As the commercial says, an individual's future can be positively shaped by the collegiate athletics experience, and that the end of amateur athletic participation is just the beginning of a young person's life. College athletics breeds success.

Can that be valued at the cost of the programs? Probably not. But it still has value.
03-21-2013 06:33 PM
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fishpro12345 Offline
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RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 06:33 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(03-21-2013 01:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  What benefit does the university get by having intercollegiate competition, coaches and scholarships for all of this?

College athletes, especially in the non-revenue sports, have higher GPAs, graduate at a higher rate, are more engaged on campus, they speak positively of the university in most settings, and are more involved as giving Alumni than most regular students.

As the commercial says, an individual's future can be positively shaped by the collegiate athletics experience, and that the end of amateur athletic participation is just the beginning of a young person's life. College athletics breeds success.

Can that be valued at the cost of the programs? Probably not. But it still has value.

Well said.
03-21-2013 06:42 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 01:11 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I have a young son and a daughter, both of which are very athletic. Should I direct them away from sports they enjoy and excel in so that one day, they may be eligible for a scholarship?

Absolutely not. Let them play what they enjoy (even though it was probably just hypothetical or at least intended more to make a point than to seek advice).
03-21-2013 07:13 PM
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RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 05:12 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  I understand the B12/SEC model. Football drives the bus. That is their money sport and everything else is secondary. Point taken.

The BIG/Pac12/acc model is just as good if not better. A poster asked why 33 sports for OSU and mentioned that many are regional or non revenue. Well, if you are the BIG and you have four channels broadcasting 24/7 you need that many sports to allow for constant fresh programing inventory. Those regional sports fit perfectly with the regional target of your network. Hockey may not pack them in to an arena or drive ratings in the SEC, but it does in the BIG.

What the SEC is going to find out with its own network is that MORE sports are going to be needed to fill programing time. I expect to see live Olympic sports being aired during the afternoon leading into an evening of live football/basketball. Expect to see all big 5 playing Thursday and Friday night games to fill air time.

The south and the SEC in particular care about lots of sports that can fill air time for the network. There's fall football, spring football, football recruiting, offseason football training, baseball, flag football, intramural football, replays of classic football games, paper football, fantasy football and a real growth sport that should help with Title IX - lingerie football. And with all of the snooty types out of the way, they can legitimize and institutionalize collegiate offerings for "sports" like huntin' and fishin', in the appropriate seasons, of course. 04-rock
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2013 12:04 AM by Zombiewoof.)
03-22-2013 12:02 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 01:11 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I have a young son and a daughter, both of which are very athletic. Should I direct them away from sports they enjoy and excel in so that one day, they may be eligible for a scholarship?

No, but you should start saving for college NOW.
03-22-2013 12:27 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Two different philosophies in realignment!
(03-21-2013 05:12 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  I understand the B12/SEC model. Football drives the bus. That is their money sport and everything else is secondary. Point taken.

The BIG/Pac12/acc model is just as good if not better. A poster asked why 33 sports for OSU and mentioned that many are regional or non revenue. Well, if you are the BIG and you have four channels broadcasting 24/7 you need that many sports to allow for constant fresh programing inventory. Those regional sports fit perfectly with the regional target of your network. Hockey may not pack them in to an arena or drive ratings in the SEC, but it does in the BIG.
The Big Ten only has one channel broadcasting 24/7 (the overflow channels are used on Football Saturdays, but they mirror the main channel most of the rest of the time), but they also are building their streaming on demand Big Ten Digital, and their live sporting events on cable in BTN prime time programming are growing.

So soccer makes a good midweek complement to Football Saturdays, ice hockey ~ which is a break-even sport in the Big Ten, compared to most subsidy sports ~ makes an excellent complement to Big Ten BBall in the winter, and Lacrosse would make a fine Spring season addition.

With the relatively limited number of SEC basketball games of interest getting picked up by the Tier 1 and Tier 2 carriers, an SEC Network in an area where it doesn't make basic cable is going to go through a wave of subscriptions in August and September, followed by a wave of drops in early January.
03-25-2013 06:16 PM
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