(04-02-2013 03:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 02:27 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I have to respectfully disagree. The A10 without SLU, Dayton, Butler and Xavier isn't a better on the court product. I know the MVC went through a couple of weak years recently, but they've still be right behind the A10. And I know losing Creighton hurts the way we're viewed, but the MVC is a lot stronger as a whole than many realize. Generally speaking, the bottom of our conference isn't that bad. The past few years would say otherwise, but that' more outside the norm than many realize.

And if SLU is gone, I'm not sure there's anyway that the A10 could pull in teams from the MVC. There's simply too large of a gap for most after that, unless they went after an Indiana State or Evansville. UE would make no sense whatsoever. ISUb would be a stretch in my mind. And that would only be possible I think if Dayton were left behind. If both Dayton and SLU are gone, the closes school to the MVC schools would be in Pittsburg I believe.

I'm still shocked at the reports of Denver declining consideration. Shocked and disappointed. There was a tweet someone posted on ShockerNet earlier from I believe the Missouri State President that talked about only visiting schools who've expressed interest and not wasting time with those that haven't. I'm not sure if that means they're only visiting those who've contacted them or if they did reach out to Denver and try to talk, but the list of names that have popped up in the past week aren't that attractive.

I could maybe buy into Valpo. Solid program. Attendance is okay. It'd be yet another Indiana school though. But it's still probably the most attractive.

ORU has some history. Not sure what their potential is right now though.

UIC/Loyola neither have a recent history of any success that I'm aware of. Not sure what their financial commitment is. And I don't like the idea of a 4th school in Illinois. Even if it is in Chicago.

UMKC....

I haven't seen Belmont mentioned lately but they had questions surrounding them as well. Horrible attendance numbers make you take pause and wonder what their ceiling really is.

I haven't seen any other names lately which disappoints me and leads me to continue hoping that Wichita finds another conference willing to take on a nonfootball school. I like the MVC, but if this is the pool we're selecting from, I'm starting to lose hope.

There's a pretty big drop after Wichita State in the MVC.

No there is not. Considering since 2006, 6 different MVC schools have won the regular season title, 9 have played for the MVC tournament championship and 7 have made NCAA tournament, and 4 have made Sweet Sixteen runs.

(04-03-2013 09:31 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 06:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 03:22 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  Fair enough. And I'll say that I don't follow the A10 closely. But I'd put Bradley as a whole on par with any of the others outside of VCU. I also believe Illinois State is in that realm as is UNI. We definitely lack markets as I believe Wichita is the largest, but that shouldn't be the driving force for the MVC.

If it's true that Denver was pushed out because of a demand to add sports, shame on the MVC. They would have been a great addition. I still wish Arlington would have been looked into. They have kind of followed a Denver like approach in investment and improvement. They also put you in a good market and are much better than those being considered on the court.

I've pretty much convinced myself that any addition at this point is going to suck on just about every possible level. Which is why I'm hoping we have an opportunity to land elsewhere.

Doug Elgin is an idiot.

The former and current MVC Presidents have more to do with the MVC's predicaments than Elgin ever did. Look at Evansville, Drake, and SIU. If it's true that SIU is having athletic funding issues, the MVC has a lot of internal issues that need to be addressed.

Hope that the Shockers can get an invite to the CTBA and restore their rivalry with Tulsa.

They defintely share in the blame, but Elgin has never struck me as a risk taker or true leader. Perhaps the presidents make him that way, I don't know.

Financial issues are definitely an issue at a number of our schools. SIU overpayed for a coach that destroyed their program and now that coach is taking them to court for payment. Evansville and Indiana State can't spend much more than they already are. MSU has had its financial issues. There's been talk that UNI is stretched thin. Drake...is Drake. Bradley is the only other school I feel fairly confident about financially. Illinois State may be okay, I have no idea.

Which is another reason I'm not big on most of the schools being talked about for addition. Almost every one of them are small schools with small budgets.

It'd be great if this Final Four run could get us in with one of the other conferences, but I'm not holding my breath.

I don't think it's really Elgin. There's only so much the MVC can do in this situation. The New Big East was going to take whoever it wanted among non-FBS schools, so even if the MVC had added, say, Butler sooner, they would have been gone anyway. At the same time, university presidents are constantly looking eastward for various reasons (academic prestige, demographics, TV markets), so the thought of MVC ever adding SLU and/or Dayton for geographic reasons was about as realistic as the Big East being able to poach Penn State from the Big Ten based on geography. The MVC is essentially the basketball version of the Big 8 in the 1990s (with a lot of the same footprint) - a conference with good fan bases and some great teams in terms of performance, but it can't be understated how bad the demographic situation is compared to virtually every other Division I league. That's why the MVC is finding itself with fewer desirable options in the conference realignment game than a lot of their fans might have hoped. I don't think the A-10 and MVC will end up poaching each other, but in a head-to-head battle over a potential candidate (let's say that both the A-10 and MVC wanted Belmont, Loyola, Valpo or whoever else you wanted to name), the A-10 will win every time because its demographic advantage is *massive* on top of being as good or better on-the-court.

Consistency and finances would state that there is a drop.

I believe there's still a lot of potential in the MVC, but I'd like to see more investment from others. Way too many ups and downs. Flash in the pan types.

(04-03-2013 09:44 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  No there is not. Considering since 2006, 6 different MVC schools have won the regular season title, 9 have played for the MVC tournament championship and 7 have made NCAA tournament, and 4 have made Sweet Sixteen runs.

From that, I see a lot of parity and shuffling from year-to-year. The two programs that have actually been consistent have been Creighton and Wichita State, which is what I mean by there being a drop-off. SIU went from being a standard-bearer in the league to being the last place team. Bradley has had a similar downturn. The A-10 still has more schools that have the resources and recruiting areas to be consistently competitive year-to-year. It certainly won't be like how it was this year with Butler in the league, but it's still a much bigger advantage to have a presence in DC, Philly, etc. even if you argue that the MVC is as good as the A-10 going forward on-the-court. Off-the-court, it's no contest between the A-10 and MVC (and I'm not an A-10 fan at all).

Wichita State hasn't been that consistent. The most consistent two programs the last 20 years in the MVC has been Creighton and Missouri State.

(04-03-2013 01:57 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Wichita State hasn't been that consistent. The most consistent two programs the last 20 years in the MVC has been Creighton and Missouri State.

You guys haven't been to the tournament in 14 years

And I believe they have only one conference title. I know WSU was down during the 90's (Decade of Darkness) but we've done alright for ourselves. 3 NCAAs in 7 years. A couple of NIT years where we were just missed out. Including the NIT championship year.

And then we can get into funding and money available to compete at a higher level.

2nd highest winning percentage in MVC games behind Creighton since joining the Valley, average finish since joining the MVC was 3rd. Highest winning percentage all time of MVC schools. 8 MVC Tournament title games only Creighton has more. 8 NIT appearances. And if you want to count that CIT championship that we got. That is all from the MVC Media guide if you don't believe me.

(04-03-2013 04:15 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  2nd highest winning percentage in MVC games behind Creighton since joining the Valley, average finish since joining the MVC was 3rd. Highest winning percentage all time of MVC schools. 8 MVC Tournament title games only Creighton has more. 8 NIT appearances. And if you want to count that CIT championship that we got. That is all from the MVC Media guide if you don't believe me.

how many of those 8 title games did you win in the last 20 years you spoke about? None the last 14.

Any way you look at it, Creighton is a huge loss, the biggest. It's on WSU to carry the league and hope the others make cameos or become what St.Mary's has been to the WCC.

Bradley, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois... now's the time to step up.

(04-03-2013 01:57 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Wichita State hasn't been that consistent. The most consistent two programs the last 20 years in the MVC has been Creighton and Missouri State.

Really? Creighton has been the most consistent, SIU was there until Lowery drove that program into the ground. All that matters are NCAA tournament appearances. WSU will be the flag bearer now.