(04-02-2013 12:46 AM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  Give UMass a few years to build their new stadium and they'll be out the door to the Conference That Shall Not Be Named

Why would the Big TBA want them? They've got plenty of "markets", they need football teams that people in their markets want to watch play.

(BTW, it actually will be named, possibly this week ~ best outcome for the Big TBA would be Louisville wins the championship, since they can promote Louisville playing in the {_your_name_here_} next season.)

If so, this is the perfect fit for JMU.

(04-02-2013 08:10 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wouldn't the MAC kick out Eastern Michigan before UMASS?

EMU is a full member ~ to kick out EMU they'd have to show cause. To kick out UMass, they just have to decide not to renew or extend the current agreement when it expires.

(04-02-2013 12:58 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 08:10 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wouldn't the MAC kick out Eastern Michigan before UMASS?

EMU is a full member ~ to kick out EMU they'd have to show cause. To kick out UMass, they just have to decide not to renew or extend the current agreement when it expires.

Based on the support and attendance of their football program, I'd say that is cause. Certainly UMass has more support of football than EMU.

(04-02-2013 12:58 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  EMU is a full member ~ to kick out EMU they'd have to show cause. To kick out UMass, they just have to decide not to renew or extend the current agreement when it expires.

The deal never expires, but once Temple left the MAC, the MAC gained the right to expel UMass upon two year's notice. The same would have applied to Temple had UMass left first. During those two years, UMass has the right to force its way into the MAC for all sports if it wants. The MAC is not permitted to refuse. Curiously, the exit fee goes way down if UMass joins for all sports first, so someday we could see a situation where the MAC gives UMass notice and UMass makes arrangements with another conference, but joins the MAC for all sports for 24 hours to cut its exit fee to $250k.

(04-02-2013 06:58 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  The MAC is such nice guys. Help UCF, save Temple's program, and then help launch UMass from FCS to FBS all the while receiving nothing in return as they complain then split.

LOL. Typical MAC

I don't know...that 6mil from Temple was a nice parting gift.

(04-02-2013 04:02 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  ... UMass has the right to force its way into the MAC for all sports if it wants. The MAC is not permitted to refuse. Curiously, the exit fee goes way down if UMass joins for all sports first, ...

What a loverly deal. Are all the good law schools in the ACC and Big Ten?

(04-02-2013 12:26 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 12:46 AM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  Give UMass a few years to build their new stadium and they'll be out the door to the Conference That Shall Not Be Named

Why would the Big TBA want them? They've got plenty of "markets", they need football teams that people in their markets want to watch play.

(BTW, it actually will be named, possibly this week ~ best outcome for the Big TBA would be Louisville wins the championship, since they can promote Louisville playing in the {_your_name_here_} next season.)

How is UMass a market? They're in Western Mass, not Boston. Amherst is a pretty small market.

(04-02-2013 01:10 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 12:58 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 08:10 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wouldn't the MAC kick out Eastern Michigan before UMASS?

EMU is a full member ~ to kick out EMU they'd have to show cause. To kick out UMass, they just have to decide not to renew or extend the current agreement when it expires.

Based on the support and attendance of their football program, I'd say that is cause. Certainly UMass has more support of football than EMU.

We'll see what kind of support UMass gets if they continue to lose and they have to travel to Gillette to play most of their games. It may not be any better than EMU.

(04-02-2013 05:04 PM)Niner National Wrote:  How is UMass a market? They're in Western Mass, not Boston. Amherst is a pretty small market.

Hey, you're right, the MSA is 85th, similar to Akron or Toledo. I'd remembered it as being higher up the list than that.

Ah, 0.67% growth over the past decade, Maybe at one time it was.

I must correct myself ~ UMass delivers neither FB nor markets, why would the Big TBA want to invite it?

(04-02-2013 12:26 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 12:46 AM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  Give UMass a few years to build their new stadium and they'll be out the door to the Conference That Shall Not Be Named

Why would the Big TBA want them? They've got plenty of "markets", they need football teams that people in their markets want to watch play.

(BTW, it actually will be named, possibly this week ~ best outcome for the Big TBA would be Louisville wins the championship, since they can promote Louisville playing in the {_your_name_here_} next season.)

the conference can increase their footprint in the northeast

they're a natural rival for UConn

decent basketball history

UConn doesn't want UMass in the same conference as themselves.

(04-02-2013 06:44 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  the conference can increase their footprint in the northeast

Yeah, that's what I was thinking on of the arguments for them would be, but I've never been in Western MA and it was just a vague impression I had never looked up the number for. 680K only ranks in the 80's among MSA's, similar to Akron's or Toledo's MSA. To get the Big TBA to look at you for market, you ought to be a top-50 media market, which UMass definitely is not.

It seems like the Big TBA could "increase their footprint" in the Great Lakes by a similar amount by inviting Akron, Kent State, Toledo or Bowling Green. And I'm not saying that to put forward Akron, Kent State, Toledo or Bowling Green for the Big TBA, but to put into context how eager the Big TBA might be on the basis of getting the main Western MA metropolitan area "into their footprint".

(04-02-2013 01:10 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 12:58 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 08:10 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wouldn't the MAC kick out Eastern Michigan before UMASS?

EMU is a full member ~ to kick out EMU they'd have to show cause. To kick out UMass, they just have to decide not to renew or extend the current agreement when it expires.

Based on the support and attendance of their football program, I'd say that is cause. Certainly UMass has more support of football than EMU.

The MAC almost kicked out EMU twice, once in the early 80's and another time about 7-8 years ago by not meeting internal criteria.

EMU has stepped up to the plate with facilities. Both there FB and BB facilities are top 5 in the conference. That is what is keeping them in the league and with the constant realignment going on the MAC will be glad to have EMU if Toledo or Akron were to leave.

The MAC doesn't take a 2 or 3 year view on expansion like CUSA or the SBC. They take more of a 5-10 year approach instead of quick backfills.

(04-02-2013 05:37 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 05:04 PM)Niner National Wrote:  How is UMass a market? They're in Western Mass, not Boston. Amherst is a pretty small market.

Hey, you're right, the MSA is 85th, similar to Akron or Toledo. I'd remembered it as being higher up the list than that.

Ah, 0.67% growth over the past decade, Maybe at one time it was.

I must correct myself ~ UMass delivers neither FB nor markets, why would the Big TBA want to invite it?

It's the University of Massachusetts, not Directional Massachusetts University. Penn State is in the 102nd ranked "media market." Oregon and Oregon State share the supposedly 121st ranked market. LSU is in the 94th. Missouri is in the 138th. Wisconsin 85th. Virginia 183rd. Florida 163rd. UMass is in the 114th, 6 miles outside the 7th.

(04-02-2013 06:54 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  UConn doesn't want UMass in the same conference as themselves.

+1

UMASS is likely the main part of the replacement plan WHEN UCONN leaves.

(04-03-2013 07:52 AM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 05:37 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 05:04 PM)Niner National Wrote:  How is UMass a market? They're in Western Mass, not Boston. Amherst is a pretty small market.

Hey, you're right, the MSA is 85th, similar to Akron or Toledo. I'd remembered it as being higher up the list than that.

Ah, 0.67% growth over the past decade, Maybe at one time it was.

I must correct myself ~ UMass delivers neither FB nor markets, why would the Big TBA want to invite it?

It's the University of Massachusetts, not Directional Massachusetts University. Penn State is in the 102nd ranked "media market." Oregon and Oregon State share the supposedly 121st ranked market. LSU is in the 94th. Missouri is in the 138th. Wisconsin 85th. Virginia 183rd. Florida 163rd. UMass is in the 114th, 6 miles outside the 7th.

and NIU is in the #3 market along with being on the fringe of #132 yet it seems that we have not had any interest in us.

(04-03-2013 07:52 AM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  It's the University of Massachusetts, not Directional Massachusetts University.

What are the figures on CFB fan share among sports fans in Boston and UMass share among CFB fans?

Boston has a designated market area population of 2.4m. Going by Nate Silver's 2011 article ... The Geography of College Football Fans ... Boston seems likely to have the same CFB fan population share as New York, which is about 20%, making about 400,000 college football fans to go around. And UMass playing in Western Mass would shares the spotlight in Boston with BC, which plays in a higher status conference, and will be several Northeastern schools joining its schedule next year.

So what do you reckon we are looking at, as far as Boston audience here ... maybe 80,000?

It might push it up to top-50 media market equivalent, but more like the 40-50 tier than the 1-10 tier. The Big TBA has lots of schools that are second or third fiddle in bigger media markets, what they need are matchups that get a few of the TV sets in those markets to turn on to their games. And UMass does not show any sign of being a team that creates match-ups like that.

If UConn ditches the fBE who other than MAYBE Temple would lobby to add UMass?

As to the MAC and UMass. When the deal was made, UMass had good justification to argue they couldn't afford to leave the A10. With direction the A10 is headed currently, if I'm a MAC president I'm telling UMass, the A10 isn't that special any more. All or nothing with the MAC.

(04-03-2013 11:01 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  And UMass playing in Western Mass would shares the spotlight in Boston with BC, which plays in a higher status conference, and will be several Northeastern schools joining its schedule next year.

UMass plays football in Eastern Mass. The campus is in Western Mass. That's just one of the complexities of an already unusual situation. The short answer to your question is that nobody knows what the college football market potential of Boston really is. It's a fairly blank slate. Keep in mind that up until the 2000s, the only FBS program in all of New England was Boston College. Boston College is a small, very expensive, religiously affiliated private school with ambitions of having a national profile like Notre Dame. Accordingly, only 25% of BC students are actually from Massachusetts, and they're aiming to reduce that number. In comparison, 80% of UMass students are from Massachusetts, and are mostly from the Boston area/Eastern half of the state, where most of the population of Mass lives. So there are problems with using Boston College as a gauge of UMass's potential.

Using New York as a point of reference for Boston's level of CFB interest also presents problems. New York City doesn't even have a Boston College equivalent. Syracuse is another private university, and 2.5 times the distance from NYC that UMass is from Boston. The state of New York doesn't have an undisputed public flagship. UBuffalo at the opposite corner of the state from NYC is the closest equivalent to a flagship, and I doubt most of their students have NYC ties.

Boston has a reputation of being a pro sports town. I'd counter that it's a front-running sports town. The Patriots, Celtics and Bruins all fall off the radar when they're losing. Some may remember that the Patriots came within a whisker of leaving Boston just prior to this recent era of winning. That's how committed a "pro sports town" Boston is. Likewise, BC Football during the Flutie years and UMass Basketball during the Calipari years were kings in Boston, but the only Boston area sports team that still matters even when they're losing is the Red Sox. The point being, we're not really going to know what UMass Football's profile is going to be in Boston until it gets back to winning. So it doesn't surprise me at all that the former Big East isn't leaping at the chance to invite the last remaining major state flagship after a single transitional season. There's too much uncertainty surrounding UMass.

And that's entirely too much written on this subject in the thread titled "JMad to the Sun Belt".