(04-04-2013 01:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU

I'm sure is keeping its options open...however, FSU going to the B1G makes no sense (see WVU to B12) unless there is a crisis.

Makes at least some sense. Saying it makes none is just ignorant.

(04-04-2013 03:01 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Who is giving you guys this info? Thought that was a premium article but maybe I am not corrrect on that.

Regardless, I am sure FSU would only move if the Big 10 went to 18 or 20 and brought in more Southern teams.

Would FSU move first, believing they'd be the catalyst to get a few other schools to jump Big Ten, too? If FSU is offered I don't see how they decline. I'm not saying it'd be unanimous but I think most fans would support it and if what "Dot" says is legit (which you never know) then even FSU higher ups think it would be the right move albeit an imperfect one.

And I can't imagine the Big Ten expanding to an odd number of schools. I think they'd wait to fully incorporate FSU into the fold until #16+ came on board.

And that post has been leaked all over FSU sites. Nobody respects Warchant. Rightfully so.

(04-04-2013 03:36 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:28 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU

I'm sure is keeping its options open...however, FSU going to the B1G makes no sense (see WVU to B12) unless there is a crisis.

Actually it makes plenty of sense. SEC already has Florida covered and is looking to expand to other states that they don't already have a presence in yet (North Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Kansas) while the B1G wants to expand down the coast and eventually into Florida.

B1G makes more money than any other conference, especially after they renegotiate in a few years.

The SEC still makes more sense because 1) FSU would prefer the SEC, and 2) if it really came down to it, the SEC would offer FSU just to block the B1G from getting any sort of foothold in Florida.

1. Maybe. Probably. Honestly, it depends. If the end-game is conference of greater than 16 teams, which it appears is very possibly (didn't say likely) going to happen, then perhaps the Big Ten with a mid-atlantic/southeastern flank is better. But if there is an indication that leagues are stopping at 16 (which, how could you believe in this environment?) than the SEC would make much more sense.

2. I don't have the figures in front of me or anywhere else, but I'm sure the SEC does. I assume 1 of 3 things:
- Adding FSU would bring less money than adding one of VT/UVA/UNC/NCSU
- Adding FSU would bring more money than VT/UVA/UNC/NCSU but the SEC just doesn't want to have to deal with FSU*
- Adding FSU would bring in similar money as VT/UVA/UNC/NCSU but the SEC doesn't want to have to deal with FSU*

* Meaning FSU already has an elite all-around athletic program as well as football program and no other preferred NC/VA candidate combines both equals less competition for the SEC (but still good competition and good money for the conference)

(04-04-2013 06:52 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 06:35 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I absolutely think this makes sense and have said as much since last year.

This is what makes no sense to me:

Florida State probably is the most valuable potential realistic target available to the B1G. However, that was also true before they added Rutgers and Maryland.

I didn't at the time - nor do I still - understand why on Earth the B1G added Rutgers and Maryland when they very possibly could have added Florida State and say, Georgia Tech? RU and UMD would have been there for the B1G's taking at any time they wanted those schools. Conversely, FSU may not be.

I understand that Rutgers is in the NYC DMA and Maryland is in the DC DMA and that there are copious amounts of cable dollars available by grabbing those schools. However, it's not like Atlanta - the nation's 8th largest media market - is small potatoes. And college football is so much more popular in the South than it is in the Mid-Atlantic/Northeast, it's not even close. Also, adding FSU would have likely ensured the entire state of Florida for the BTN.

I do not blame Maryland or Rutgers one bit for accepting the B1G's offer. However, I do think the B1G's decision to add those schools will prove to be historically shortsighted in the long run. They could have had some BIG FISH and instead settled for much, much less.

If you are the B1G and you are going to 20 from 12 you pick up the New York and DC markets with two of the six additions.

No brainer really.

What you said.

And, maybe GT and FSU weren't as receptive to jump last year (along with the rest of the targeted ACC schools). Maybe the Big Ten wanted to poach one of the ACC's own, in part, to show some superiority, but also to lock up some valuable tv markets that the ACC was eyeing/believed it firmly held. Perhaps once the move was made and the predicted difference in conference-generated revenue would be enough to break some more ACC schools loose. Maryland is hardly a poor add for the Big Ten. I think they're a very good overall add. They were just at a vulnerable point and the Big Ten seized the opportunity to make a move that they may not have ever had the chance to make again (including possible future expansion into southern ACC territory.)

(04-04-2013 08:08 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Well why did they pass on Syracuse and Pitt then? Especially the Cuse... I am asking because it would seem like Rutgers don't get you the NY market. Maryland makes sense for DC.

Pitt? What market does Pitt bring the Big Ten? I could see Cuse making sense for the Big Ten to help lock up Upstate but I feel the Big Ten will do well in NYC even without them. Rutgers was more of an institutional fit anyways.

(04-04-2013 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If the Big 10 goes after Georgia Tech and Florida State the SEC will counter by going after Pittsburgh and Syracuse.

At first I thought you were dumb. Then I thought it was all sarcasm (the whole post, not just this excerpt). But now I have no clue.

(04-04-2013 08:45 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I also believe that FSU would lose any recruiting power they have now in Florida.

How? FSU doesn't play in the SEC as is. FSU will be playing northern schools like BC and Cuse every year while playing Pitt on the reg. FSU, in an 18- or 20-team Big Ten, would have many similar opponents on the schedule that are currently there (SOMEBODY out of UMD, UVA, VT, UNC, Duke, GT). We'd still face UF. FSU would still have another OOC game or 2 to schedule. (How is potentially knocking off a scrub OOC school to add an ACC school FSU already faces or a Big Ten school going to hurt?) FSU's schedule wouldn't change that much.

Don't see it hurting basketball much since FSU would lose Cuse, UL, and maybe UNC and/or Duke but would gain Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Wisconsin and possibly UNC and/or Duke.

Don't see it hurting baseball too much if the Big Ten used divisions as FSU would potentially keep GT, UNC and UVA on the schedule, would obviously keep the UF games, and could easily add in the UM series and even someone like Clemson if they wanted (or any other available elite baseball program). Hell, FSU could even host an early season tournament featuring prominent OOC southern teams to help with RPI if the Big Ten was that much of a detriment.

(04-04-2013 08:51 PM)krux Wrote:  Still no link?

It's premium content on an FSU recruiting website. I read it myself on a different message board in which FSU fans congregate before seeing it here.

(04-04-2013 09:04 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 08:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If the Big 10 takes Virginia and either North Carolina or Duke the SEC will counter with Virginia Tech and either N.C. State, U.N.C. or Duke.

If the Big 10 goes after Georgia Tech and Florida State the SEC will counter by going after Pittsburgh and Syracuse.

If Delany invades the South looking for new markets Slive will not allow the development of a market gap and will add Pennsylvania and New York to the SEC footprint. The SEC might even give Connecticut a look under those circumstances or perhaps even Boston College if a deal could be struck with the Irish.

The wild speculation will be met with wild speculation by posters. But a broad move by Delany will be met with an equally broad move by Slive. Shoot, Swarbrick visited Birmingham a few weeks ago. Who knows what the networks are cooking up.

But a Big 10 Eastern Division would likely be 5 teams North Carolina/Duke, Virginia, Georgia Tech, F.S.U./Miami, and Maryland.
I could see F.S.U. working with that arrangement just fine.

For those who think that the SEC would never move to New England imagine a Northern Division with Virginia Tech, U.N.C./Duke or N.C. State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Connecticut.
The football would be okay and the basketball a real coup for the SEC. Add to that a Notre Dame team that would play those 5 teams only in that one division to be eligible for an SEC playoff from that division while being free to schedule whomever for the other 7 games and it would be a helluva thumb in the eye of Delany.

We've established that this is just about money. We have established therefore that with the right offer almost anything is possible. So if the ACC really does get raided (still a big if) I won't be shocked at how any of this pans out. Why should I? Just look at what goes on in the rest of the nation these days.

The tripartite Chinese curse is most appropriate here:
1. May you live in interesting times.
2. May those in authority over you take notice of you.
3. May every desire of your heart come true.

Interesting times are almost always bad.

When authority notices you they either eliminate you due to incompetence, or eliminate you because you are too competent and therefore a threat.

Unchecked desires almost always destroys you in the end.

So in light of that why the heck not send F.S.U. to the Big 10 and Syracuse to the SEC.

I understand and agree. I expect interesting times in the future of CFB. Fortunately for a lot of us, we will sooner or later free up some valuable time in our lives...

"For those who think that the SEC would never move to New England imagine a Northern Division with Virginia Tech, U.N.C./Duke or N.C. State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Connecticut."

That would sure take the monkey off Mizzou's back for all the "we don't belong" chatter.....lol

The SEC took Missouri to gain a great market and a good school. Imagine the SEC network getting carriage in New York, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Virginia, and either Massachusetts or Connecticut. If this is truly about markets and money why would this not be logical? It would keep the SEC roughly equivalent to the Big 10 with markets thereby eliminating their market size advantage. All are good schools academically and they all offer better basketball an SEC need.

Divorce yourself from regionalism and just compare. Which add the most money and the largest markets for the SEC: Florida State or Pittsburgh, Clemson or Syracuse, Georgia Tech or Boston College/Connecticut.

If you are ESPN and want to protect your New England markets do you want to leave Syracuse and Pitt or B.C. and UConn isolated or do you want to move them to a conference you have tremendous interest in?

If you are ESPN and you realize that Winter content for an SEC network would not be compelling do you want to add basketball brands with national cache to your investment or do you want to add more Southern football schools?

If you are the average president of an SEC school do you want more money and enhanced academic associations or do you want more of what you already have?

Now go ahead and LOL but if we move to 20 teams I expect something like this to happen if Delany moves South. One idiotic move deserves another especially if more money is involved. Plus such a move will destabilize the Big 12 by eliminating their best options to expand thereby freeing up more expansion candidates.

It's Machiavellian for sure, but what about all of this is not?

(04-04-2013 09:48 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  And, maybe GT and FSU weren't as receptive to jump last year (along with the rest of the targeted ACC schools).

Especially since it only takes one exit to test the ACC exit fee in court, which is the only way to determine with confidence what the exit fee really is, and there was a 14th that was would not cause any controversy regarding academic status and which would bring the NJ portion of the NY market and shore up the Big Ten's position in Philadelphia, its second largest city but likely not second largest market.

(04-04-2013 08:16 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:55 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Would really like to see a link to those quotes. Regardless, as to whether it "makes sense", from a pure financial perspective, FSU is the single most valuable possible non-SEC/Pac-12 addition to the Big Ten outside of the University of Texas. In fact, the money between what FSU would bring and the next ones on the list (e.g. UNC, GT, UVA) isn't even close. The only hangup for the Big Ten with FSU would be academics. That's not a small matter, but I'm telling you, FSU fits every single other financial, demographic, TV market, national branding and football recruiting metric that the conference could possible want. Also note that the state of Florida is the #1 home for Big Ten grads that isn't within the current Big Ten footprint. I'm not saying that it will happen (I've long thought that the ACC is stronger than what people give them credit for), but I think it would be naive to think that there's at least some mutual interest between FSU and B1G simply because the dollars are so massive. I find it more likely than UNC ever joining either the B1G or SEC.

When it comes to expansion, the B1G are really targetting the following:
- Texas
- Notre Dame
- one of the two top Florida state schools
- UNC

Everything else in terms of leaked interest has been basically other schools to acquire to help facilitate the targets in joining up.

OU & KU remors = destabilize the Big 12 and get Texas to jump as well.

UNC & Miami rumors = attempt to get FSU to grab the bait first

UVA/GT rumors = destabilize the ACC to get UNC and FSU

Duke rumors = a nice prize to go along with UNC

All of the above combined = attempt to get Notre Dame to finally commit

If the B1G could get its way ideally, they'd expand to 22 or 24 and add ND, Texas, KU, OU, FSU, Duke, UVA, GT along with BC and Syracuse to close out the Northeast tv market

Syracuse & BC do not "close out" the Northeast market. UConn gets TV numbers as good (or better) than Syracuse or BC.

I'm not talking about who actually watches. TV MARKETS or national following is what B1G is after.

UConn, BC and UMass are basically the 3 largest alumni bases in the New England area. However, to get the Big Ten Network into New England overall, they just need one in the Boston tv market, which eliminates UConn. UConn would get you into parts of New England (probably RI and CT), but can't guarantee that BTN gets to MA. Between BC and UMass, if things were ideal UMass would be the choice because you can then get the biggest alumni base as well as theorhetically get the network throughout the state and the school is the state flagship, but since UMass footbal is highly underdeveloped, thus BC then becomes the choice. This would then get BTN thoughout MA, CT, RI, NH, VT, ME since the cable coverage of New England all is based off of the Boston tv market. Same goes for Syracuse vs any SUNY school to get NY State and pretty much guarantee the NYC TV Market to accept BTN as well.

That's why you "close out" the Northeast.

(04-04-2013 08:16 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:55 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Would really like to see a link to those quotes. Regardless, as to whether it "makes sense", from a pure financial perspective, FSU is the single most valuable possible non-SEC/Pac-12 addition to the Big Ten outside of the University of Texas. In fact, the money between what FSU would bring and the next ones on the list (e.g. UNC, GT, UVA) isn't even close. The only hangup for the Big Ten with FSU would be academics. That's not a small matter, but I'm telling you, FSU fits every single other financial, demographic, TV market, national branding and football recruiting metric that the conference could possible want. Also note that the state of Florida is the #1 home for Big Ten grads that isn't within the current Big Ten footprint. I'm not saying that it will happen (I've long thought that the ACC is stronger than what people give them credit for), but I think it would be naive to think that there's at least some mutual interest between FSU and B1G simply because the dollars are so massive. I find it more likely than UNC ever joining either the B1G or SEC.

When it comes to expansion, the B1G are really targetting the following:
- Texas
- Notre Dame
- one of the two top Florida state schools
- UNC

Everything else in terms of leaked interest has been basically other schools to acquire to help facilitate the targets in joining up.

OU & KU remors = destabilize the Big 12 and get Texas to jump as well.

UNC & Miami rumors = attempt to get FSU to grab the bait first

UVA/GT rumors = destabilize the ACC to get UNC and FSU

Duke rumors = a nice prize to go along with UNC

All of the above combined = attempt to get Notre Dame to finally commit

If the B1G could get its way ideally, they'd expand to 22 or 24 and add ND, Texas, KU, OU, FSU, Duke, UVA, GT along with BC and Syracuse to close out the Northeast tv market

Syracuse & BC do not "close out" the Northeast market. UConn gets TV numbers as good (or better) than Syracuse or BC.

BC's numbers in Boston have always been very good. Sure, nowhere near RS or Pats levels but that is an unfair comparison. Frankly, they don't have to be at RS or Pats levels because the Boston market is huge and their share of eyeballs in that market is larger than many other places.

Given the significantly smaller size of the Uconn market, I find this claim hard to believe. Frankly, IMO, if Uconn's numbers were strong, in terms of numbers of eyeballs, they would have be in a major conference today.

Comparing Uconn to BC, all you need to know is that a 2-win BC team, having its worst season in 25 years, had higher average attendance than Uconn in 2012.

(04-04-2013 09:48 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU

I'm sure is keeping its options open...however, FSU going to the B1G makes no sense (see WVU to B12) unless there is a crisis.

Makes at least some sense. Saying it makes none is just ignorant.

(04-04-2013 03:01 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Who is giving you guys this info? Thought that was a premium article but maybe I am not corrrect on that.

Regardless, I am sure FSU would only move if the Big 10 went to 18 or 20 and brought in more Southern teams.

Would FSU move first, believing they'd be the catalyst to get a few other schools to jump Big Ten, too? If FSU is offered I don't see how they decline. I'm not saying it'd be unanimous but I think most fans would support it and if what "Dot" says is legit (which you never know) then even FSU higher ups think it would be the right move albeit an imperfect one.

And I can't imagine the Big Ten expanding to an odd number of schools. I think they'd wait to fully incorporate FSU into the fold until #16+ came on board.

And that post has been leaked all over FSU sites. Nobody respects Warchant. Rightfully so.

(04-04-2013 03:36 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:28 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU

I'm sure is keeping its options open...however, FSU going to the B1G makes no sense (see WVU to B12) unless there is a crisis.

Actually it makes plenty of sense. SEC already has Florida covered and is looking to expand to other states that they don't already have a presence in yet (North Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Kansas) while the B1G wants to expand down the coast and eventually into Florida.

B1G makes more money than any other conference, especially after they renegotiate in a few years.

The SEC still makes more sense because 1) FSU would prefer the SEC, and 2) if it really came down to it, the SEC would offer FSU just to block the B1G from getting any sort of foothold in Florida.

1. Maybe. Probably. Honestly, it depends. If the end-game is conference of greater than 16 teams, which it appears is very possibly (didn't say likely) going to happen, then perhaps the Big Ten with a mid-atlantic/southeastern flank is better. But if there is an indication that leagues are stopping at 16 (which, how could you believe in this environment?) than the SEC would make much more sense.

2. I don't have the figures in front of me or anywhere else, but I'm sure the SEC does. I assume 1 of 3 things:
- Adding FSU would bring less money than adding one of VT/UVA/UNC/NCSU
- Adding FSU would bring more money than VT/UVA/UNC/NCSU but the SEC just doesn't want to have to deal with FSU*
- Adding FSU would bring in similar money as VT/UVA/UNC/NCSU but the SEC doesn't want to have to deal with FSU*

* Meaning FSU already has an elite all-around athletic program as well as football program and no other preferred NC/VA candidate combines both equals less competition for the SEC (but still good competition and good money for the conference)

(04-04-2013 06:52 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 06:35 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I absolutely think this makes sense and have said as much since last year.

This is what makes no sense to me:

Florida State probably is the most valuable potential realistic target available to the B1G. However, that was also true before they added Rutgers and Maryland.

I didn't at the time - nor do I still - understand why on Earth the B1G added Rutgers and Maryland when they very possibly could have added Florida State and say, Georgia Tech? RU and UMD would have been there for the B1G's taking at any time they wanted those schools. Conversely, FSU may not be.

I understand that Rutgers is in the NYC DMA and Maryland is in the DC DMA and that there are copious amounts of cable dollars available by grabbing those schools. However, it's not like Atlanta - the nation's 8th largest media market - is small potatoes. And college football is so much more popular in the South than it is in the Mid-Atlantic/Northeast, it's not even close. Also, adding FSU would have likely ensured the entire state of Florida for the BTN.

I do not blame Maryland or Rutgers one bit for accepting the B1G's offer. However, I do think the B1G's decision to add those schools will prove to be historically shortsighted in the long run. They could have had some BIG FISH and instead settled for much, much less.

If you are the B1G and you are going to 20 from 12 you pick up the New York and DC markets with two of the six additions.

No brainer really.

What you said.

And, maybe GT and FSU weren't as receptive to jump last year (along with the rest of the targeted ACC schools). Maybe the Big Ten wanted to poach one of the ACC's own, in part, to show some superiority, but also to lock up some valuable tv markets that the ACC was eyeing/believed it firmly held. Perhaps once the move was made and the predicted difference in conference-generated revenue would be enough to break some more ACC schools loose. Maryland is hardly a poor add for the Big Ten. I think they're a very good overall add. They were just at a vulnerable point and the Big Ten seized the opportunity to make a move that they may not have ever had the chance to make again (including possible future expansion into southern ACC territory.)

(04-04-2013 08:08 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Well why did they pass on Syracuse and Pitt then? Especially the Cuse... I am asking because it would seem like Rutgers don't get you the NY market. Maryland makes sense for DC.

Pitt? What market does Pitt bring the Big Ten? I could see Cuse making sense for the Big Ten to help lock up Upstate but I feel the Big Ten will do well in NYC even without them. Rutgers was more of an institutional fit anyways.

(04-04-2013 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If the Big 10 goes after Georgia Tech and Florida State the SEC will counter by going after Pittsburgh and Syracuse.

At first I thought you were dumb. Then I thought it was all sarcasm (the whole post, not just this excerpt). But now I have no clue.

(04-04-2013 08:45 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I also believe that FSU would lose any recruiting power they have now in Florida.

How? FSU doesn't play in the SEC as is. FSU will be playing northern schools like BC and Cuse every year while playing Pitt on the reg. FSU, in an 18- or 20-team Big Ten, would have many similar opponents on the schedule that are currently there (SOMEBODY out of UMD, UVA, VT, UNC, Duke, GT). We'd still face UF. FSU would still have another OOC game or 2 to schedule. (How is potentially knocking off a scrub OOC school to add an ACC school FSU already faces or a Big Ten school going to hurt?) FSU's schedule wouldn't change that much.

Don't see it hurting basketball much since FSU would lose Cuse, UL, and maybe UNC and/or Duke but would gain Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Wisconsin and possibly UNC and/or Duke.

Don't see it hurting baseball too much if the Big Ten used divisions as FSU would potentially keep GT, UNC and UVA on the schedule, would obviously keep the UF games, and could easily add in the UM series and even someone like Clemson if they wanted (or any other available elite baseball program). Hell, FSU could even host an early season tournament featuring prominent OOC southern teams to help with RPI if the Big Ten was that much of a detriment.

(04-04-2013 08:51 PM)krux Wrote:  Still no link?

It's premium content on an FSU recruiting website. I read it myself on a different message board in which FSU fans congregate before seeing it here.

FSU may play a couple northern ACC teams, but that is the exception to the rule. Tallahassee is located in the northern panhandle. They mainly play Carolina, Georgia, Florida and Virginia schools. It probably has more SEC culture than any other part of Florida, save Gainesville. I spend a lot of time in Tallahassee. The folks in this area don't look real Big Ten to me... guess we will see.

(04-04-2013 08:16 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:55 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Would really like to see a link to those quotes. Regardless, as to whether it "makes sense", from a pure financial perspective, FSU is the single most valuable possible non-SEC/Pac-12 addition to the Big Ten outside of the University of Texas. In fact, the money between what FSU would bring and the next ones on the list (e.g. UNC, GT, UVA) isn't even close. The only hangup for the Big Ten with FSU would be academics. That's not a small matter, but I'm telling you, FSU fits every single other financial, demographic, TV market, national branding and football recruiting metric that the conference could possible want. Also note that the state of Florida is the #1 home for Big Ten grads that isn't within the current Big Ten footprint. I'm not saying that it will happen (I've long thought that the ACC is stronger than what people give them credit for), but I think it would be naive to think that there's at least some mutual interest between FSU and B1G simply because the dollars are so massive. I find it more likely than UNC ever joining either the B1G or SEC.

When it comes to expansion, the B1G are really targetting the following:
- Texas
- Notre Dame
- one of the two top Florida state schools
- UNC

Everything else in terms of leaked interest has been basically other schools to acquire to help facilitate the targets in joining up.

OU & KU remors = destabilize the Big 12 and get Texas to jump as well.

UNC & Miami rumors = attempt to get FSU to grab the bait first

UVA/GT rumors = destabilize the ACC to get UNC and FSU

Duke rumors = a nice prize to go along with UNC

All of the above combined = attempt to get Notre Dame to finally commit

If the B1G could get its way ideally, they'd expand to 22 or 24 and add ND, Texas, KU, OU, FSU, Duke, UVA, GT along with BC and Syracuse to close out the Northeast tv market

Syracuse & BC do not "close out" the Northeast market. UConn gets TV numbers as good (or better) than Syracuse or BC.

Not nationally..Cuse is stronger than UConn.

(04-04-2013 11:32 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 08:16 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:55 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Would really like to see a link to those quotes. Regardless, as to whether it "makes sense", from a pure financial perspective, FSU is the single most valuable possible non-SEC/Pac-12 addition to the Big Ten outside of the University of Texas. In fact, the money between what FSU would bring and the next ones on the list (e.g. UNC, GT, UVA) isn't even close. The only hangup for the Big Ten with FSU would be academics. That's not a small matter, but I'm telling you, FSU fits every single other financial, demographic, TV market, national branding and football recruiting metric that the conference could possible want. Also note that the state of Florida is the #1 home for Big Ten grads that isn't within the current Big Ten footprint. I'm not saying that it will happen (I've long thought that the ACC is stronger than what people give them credit for), but I think it would be naive to think that there's at least some mutual interest between FSU and B1G simply because the dollars are so massive. I find it more likely than UNC ever joining either the B1G or SEC.

When it comes to expansion, the B1G are really targetting the following:
- Texas
- Notre Dame
- one of the two top Florida state schools
- UNC

Everything else in terms of leaked interest has been basically other schools to acquire to help facilitate the targets in joining up.

OU & KU remors = destabilize the Big 12 and get Texas to jump as well.

UNC & Miami rumors = attempt to get FSU to grab the bait first

UVA/GT rumors = destabilize the ACC to get UNC and FSU

Duke rumors = a nice prize to go along with UNC

All of the above combined = attempt to get Notre Dame to finally commit

If the B1G could get its way ideally, they'd expand to 22 or 24 and add ND, Texas, KU, OU, FSU, Duke, UVA, GT along with BC and Syracuse to close out the Northeast tv market

Syracuse & BC do not "close out" the Northeast market. UConn gets TV numbers as good (or better) than Syracuse or BC.

Not nationally..Cuse is stronger than UConn.

True dat. The B1G chose Nebraska as a national brand that reason alone. Sure was not for TV markets.

I think FSU is a slam dunk for the B1G. They need recruiting and exposure down there. It is the perfect brand. It delivers a state. Academic draw backs aside, outside of ND and UT, this is the program to have. No doubt about it. Ga Tech would come on board as an add on. The UF-FSU and UGA-GTech rivalries would still be preserved. Good way to increase the rivalry between the SEC and B1G.

East: RU, GTech, FSU, UM, PSU, OSU, Purdue, Indiana

That leaves some "Brands" in the other division and increases FSU's proximity to the rest of the conference. I don't think UVa delivers anything that Maryland and Rutgers do not. The Cavaliers will never be a big time program. GTech and FSU is the play for 16, outside of Duke/UNC. I would have an open invite right now if I were Delaney, no questions asked.

Now the draw backs. FSU loses Clemson. They lose Miami. They lose Virginia and Carolina. Good recruiting areas. Good rivalries. How do you counteract that? Nothing could be done, outside of adding those schools. The ACC would counter with UCF and USF and still have a stronghold in Fla, which would keep the football side of things strong.

So how do you counteract that? You have to land UNC and UVa/Duke down the line if you are the B1G. It will be a battle between the SEC/B1G to get into that state.

FSU plays Virginia/UNC twice every 12 years now with the stupid alignment they have now. So they don't lose anything. FSU plays BC/Wake/Syracuse/Louisville every season while playing Georgia Tech twice every 12 years. They go a decade without playing the closest team to them in the conference. It is beyond stupid.

I still think they would have to go to 18 or 20 though. If FSU/G. Tech/UNC and another were brought aboard, it would make a lot more sense.

(04-04-2013 10:45 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 08:16 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:55 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Would really like to see a link to those quotes. Regardless, as to whether it "makes sense", from a pure financial perspective, FSU is the single most valuable possible non-SEC/Pac-12 addition to the Big Ten outside of the University of Texas. In fact, the money between what FSU would bring and the next ones on the list (e.g. UNC, GT, UVA) isn't even close. The only hangup for the Big Ten with FSU would be academics. That's not a small matter, but I'm telling you, FSU fits every single other financial, demographic, TV market, national branding and football recruiting metric that the conference could possible want. Also note that the state of Florida is the #1 home for Big Ten grads that isn't within the current Big Ten footprint. I'm not saying that it will happen (I've long thought that the ACC is stronger than what people give them credit for), but I think it would be naive to think that there's at least some mutual interest between FSU and B1G simply because the dollars are so massive. I find it more likely than UNC ever joining either the B1G or SEC.

When it comes to expansion, the B1G are really targetting the following:
- Texas
- Notre Dame
- one of the two top Florida state schools
- UNC

Everything else in terms of leaked interest has been basically other schools to acquire to help facilitate the targets in joining up.

OU & KU remors = destabilize the Big 12 and get Texas to jump as well.

UNC & Miami rumors = attempt to get FSU to grab the bait first

UVA/GT rumors = destabilize the ACC to get UNC and FSU

Duke rumors = a nice prize to go along with UNC

All of the above combined = attempt to get Notre Dame to finally commit

If the B1G could get its way ideally, they'd expand to 22 or 24 and add ND, Texas, KU, OU, FSU, Duke, UVA, GT along with BC and Syracuse to close out the Northeast tv market

Syracuse & BC do not "close out" the Northeast market. UConn gets TV numbers as good (or better) than Syracuse or BC.

BC's numbers in Boston have always been very good. Sure, nowhere near RS or Pats levels but that is an unfair comparison. Frankly, they don't have to be at RS or Pats levels because the Boston market is huge and their share of eyeballs in that market is larger than many other places.

Given the significantly smaller size of the Uconn market, I find this claim hard to believe. Frankly, IMO, if Uconn's numbers were strong, in terms of numbers of eyeballs, they would have be in a major conference today.

Comparing Uconn to BC, all you need to know is that a 2-win BC team, having its worst season in 25 years, had higher average attendance than Uconn in 2012.

Can we get a link to those very good ratings? The games are on whatever channel they are calling UPN now.

(04-04-2013 03:36 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:28 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU

I'm sure is keeping its options open...however, FSU going to the B1G makes no sense (see WVU to B12) unless there is a crisis.

Actually it makes plenty of sense. SEC already has Florida covered and is looking to expand to other states that they don't already have a presence in yet (North Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Kansas) while the B1G wants to expand down the coast and eventually into Florida.

B1G makes more money than any other conference, especially after they renegotiate in a few years.

The SEC still makes more sense because 1) FSU would prefer the SEC, and 2) if it really came down to it, the SEC would offer FSU just to block the B1G from getting any sort of foothold in Florida.

I agree with this...especially if getting into VA or NC if not a possibility with flagship universities. I still think FSU as a brand adds more value than simply adding another state for SEC network subscriber fees.

(04-04-2013 11:03 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  FSU may play a couple northern ACC teams, but that is the exception to the rule. Tallahassee is located in the northern panhandle. They mainly play Carolina, Georgia, Florida and Virginia schools. It probably has more SEC culture than any other part of Florida, save Gainesville. I spend a lot of time in Tallahassee. The folks in this area don't look real Big Ten to me... guess we will see.

Not to sound like an a** but I know my fair share about Tallahassee and FSU supporters/alumni. Just so you realize I'm not someone from Colorado speaking on what I think I know. (I'm not saying you "think" you know what you're talking about.)

FSU may play a couple northern teams? 1/4 of its ACC schedule is GUARANTEED to be northern schools. Minimum. In years FSU plays Pitt that's 3/8 northern. Throw in OOC UF and you have 6 guaranteed games against southeastern schools.

FSU in an 18-team Big Ten - since even if FSU joined a 16-team Big Ten with only 1 other southern school I don't think it'd stay that way for long, would face a northern team in 6/9 of conference games. Definitely a big change. But 3/9 would still be southern. And the UF game will still be played. So that'd be 4 guaranteed southern games. If FSU keeps UM annually or semi-annually, that'd be 4.5 or 5 southern games. If the Big Ten expands to 20 with another southern team or two that'd bump it up to 6.5 or 7 southern games.

But what I don't think you are considering is - I may be wrong, that most FSU fans are not excited by many of our current ACC matchups. Miami, GT, Clemson and VT are the only games that are assured to be of high interest in Tallahassee. Duke, BC, Wake, UVA and even Cuse and Pitt aren't likely to excite fans much. Cuse and Pitt may draw well for a few years before the novelty wears off. UL kind of falls in line with UNC and NC State, I think, as a school that will garner some interest, especially depending on the type of season they're having, but not the likes of the first 4 I mentioned.

So, would FSU fans mind switching out decent ACC schools for a shot at playing pretty good Big Ten schools that are out of our geographic area like Nebraska (significant history there), Michigan (some history here as well), Ohio State (more history) and Penn State (some history, too)? Um, I think FSU fans would be receptive of that. If that means they trade a Wake for a Minnesota or a Duke for an Indiana now and then I don't see how that changes things.

---------------------

West Virginia doesn't look very Texan/Plains-statesy to me, but they joined the Big 12. They did it because it was the right move. They needed to get out of the Big East. Despite their travel issues, they are poised to make roughly $17M/year more in the Big 12 than Big East. It wasn't perfect but they definitely came out winners. I think the same case could be made for FSU. The SEC would not be a perfect fit for FSU imo, as I think FSU has higher academic aspirations than many current SEC schools can claim. however, it would obviously be a damn good fit athletically. I think the Big Ten would also be a very good fit athletically, only mediocre geographically, but an exceptional fit academically. Neither the SEC or Big Ten would be the wrong answer for FSU, and I believe FSU knows this. I believe many FSU fans have come around to accepting and many even preferring an expanded Big Ten. There are, of course, many that still prefer the SEC but it's nearly unanimous amongst supporters that given a Big Ten or SEC invite FSU must leave the ACC.

(04-05-2013 08:59 AM)Ragu Wrote:  FSU plays Virginia/UNC twice every 12 years now with the stupid alignment they have now. So they don't lose anything. FSU plays BC/Wake/Syracuse/Louisville every season while playing Georgia Tech twice every 12 years. They go a decade without playing the closest team to them in the conference. It is beyond stupid.

I still think they would have to go to 18 or 20 though. If FSU/G. Tech/UNC and another were brought aboard, it would make a lot more sense.

If FSU led, others would follow. Field of Dreams, beetches. But seriously, if FSU left, I don't think FSU or the Big Ten would have to wait very long for schools 16, 17 or 18. I mean, lose FSU and replace them with...Cincinnati or UConn? That probably won't fly with a lot of fans. Hell, Clemson may get fed up with it and just join the Big 12 with WVU and be another outlier (I'd feel for Clemson fans somewhat if that happened). But that could spark further ACC disintegration. Maybe. Maybe not. But it's not impossible.

(And I have respect for both UC and UConn, athletically and academically, but I don't see how they compete financially or all-around athletically with FSU.)

(04-05-2013 10:53 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:36 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:28 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU

I'm sure is keeping its options open...however, FSU going to the B1G makes no sense (see WVU to B12) unless there is a crisis.

Actually it makes plenty of sense. SEC already has Florida covered and is looking to expand to other states that they don't already have a presence in yet (North Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Kansas) while the B1G wants to expand down the coast and eventually into Florida.

B1G makes more money than any other conference, especially after they renegotiate in a few years.

The SEC still makes more sense because 1) FSU would prefer the SEC, and 2) if it really came down to it, the SEC would offer FSU just to block the B1G from getting any sort of foothold in Florida.

I agree with this...especially if getting into VA or NC if not a possibility with flagship universities. I still think FSU as a brand adds more value than simply adding another state for SEC network subscriber fees.

I don't think many of your SEC brethren agree with you. I think the difference in revenue may be negligible between adding FSU and either NC or VA. I just think most prefer the decreased competition with similar financial benefits. Jmo.

(04-04-2013 08:45 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  But why would the SEC let the B1G into their backyard at all? I also believe that FSU would lose any recruiting power they have now in Florida.

What recruit in Florida would want to be stuck traveling that far for literally every single game? Maryland is the closest now. It's nuts.

And 20 for a freaking conference? Jesus Christ. That isn't a conference. Its a syndicate between two conferences. They are all trying to turn 2+2 into 3+1 because they think they can get it to equal 5 instead of 4.

In isolation, FSU to the B1G looks just like WVU to the Big 12. We'll see how that turns out, but so far it doesn't look good. Even if FSU gets either Clemson of GT to make the jump with them, those B1G road trips will be taxing. So how does it make sense unless the B1G picks up the entire eastern seaboard with six ACC schools? Are five ACC blue bloods really going to give in to the power of the Dark Side of the Force?

And if the B1G gets six ACC schools that are all in SEC country, what the hell does the SEC do?

The more I see what is happening to college football (and therefore all college sports), the more I am reminded of Tony George and the Indy 500. They are going to keep on screwing with this until they REALLY eff it up, and then it will be too late to fix it.

(04-05-2013 10:53 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:36 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:28 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU

I'm sure is keeping its options open...however, FSU going to the B1G makes no sense (see WVU to B12) unless there is a crisis.

Actually it makes plenty of sense. SEC already has Florida covered and is looking to expand to other states that they don't already have a presence in yet (North Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Kansas) while the B1G wants to expand down the coast and eventually into Florida.

B1G makes more money than any other conference, especially after they renegotiate in a few years.

The SEC still makes more sense because 1) FSU would prefer the SEC, and 2) if it really came down to it, the SEC would offer FSU just to block the B1G from getting any sort of foothold in Florida.

I agree with this...especially if getting into VA or NC if not a possibility with flagship universities. I still think FSU as a brand adds more value than simply adding another state for SEC network subscriber fees.

Absolutely. If you subscribe to the SEC network would you rather watch FSU-LSU / FSU-Alabama or Alabama vs UNC or UVA? Just take a page from the UF-FSU games. That's a no-brainer.

(04-05-2013 12:05 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  In isolation, FSU to the B1G looks just like WVU to the Big 12. We'll see how that turns out, but so far it doesn't look good.

How does your comment even make any sense?

You sound JUST LIKE the typical Big East fan ridiculing any more-than-12-month-old ACC member that's eyeing its exit strategy.

If WVU stayed in the Big East and rebuked the Big 12 overtures do you not think UL would've gone to the Big 12 instead? Or, do you forget your own legislator(s) tried to halt WVU's entrance to the Big 12 so that you could take it instead? Don't be so foolish. You know the ACC is a weak ship. But you know that it's better than the Big East. You also know that you'd jump at any chance for a Big Ten or SEC offer.

So quit the B.S.

(04-05-2013 11:46 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  What recruit in Florida would want to be stuck traveling that far for literally every single game? Maryland is the closest now. It's nuts.

Louisville, for example, is not within 6 hours of anyone in the ACC. I assume the same would hold for Miami (save FSU). And as for FSU, the new ACC kids on the block would also be long trip.
http://cardinalsportszone.com/2012/11/28...c-schools/

As a fan, seems to me that once you hit the 4-5 hour mark by car it might as well be 6-10 hours; not many are going to travel. The athletes will be flying.

As for traveling to Florida, I would think there's a psychological "plus" when heading to Florida in the winter.

(04-05-2013 11:34 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 11:03 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  FSU may play a couple northern ACC teams, but that is the exception to the rule. Tallahassee is located in the northern panhandle. They mainly play Carolina, Georgia, Florida and Virginia schools. It probably has more SEC culture than any other part of Florida, save Gainesville. I spend a lot of time in Tallahassee. The folks in this area don't look real Big Ten to me... guess we will see.

Not to sound like an a** but I know my fair share about Tallahassee and FSU supporters/alumni. Just so you realize I'm not someone from Colorado speaking on what I think I know. (I'm not saying you "think" you know what you're talking about.)

FSU may play a couple northern teams? 1/4 of its ACC schedule is GUARANTEED to be northern schools. Minimum. In years FSU plays Pitt that's 3/8 northern. Throw in OOC UF and you have 6 guaranteed games against southeastern schools.

FSU in an 18-team Big Ten - since even if FSU joined a 16-team Big Ten with only 1 other southern school I don't think it'd stay that way for long, would face a northern team in 6/9 of conference games. Definitely a big change. But 3/9 would still be southern. And the UF game will still be played. So that'd be 4 guaranteed southern games. If FSU keeps UM annually or semi-annually, that'd be 4.5 or 5 southern games. If the Big Ten expands to 20 with another southern team or two that'd bump it up to 6.5 or 7 southern games.

But what I don't think you are considering is - I may be wrong, that most FSU fans are not excited by many of our current ACC matchups. Miami, GT, Clemson and VT are the only games that are assured to be of high interest in Tallahassee. Duke, BC, Wake, UVA and even Cuse and Pitt aren't likely to excite fans much. Cuse and Pitt may draw well for a few years before the novelty wears off. UL kind of falls in line with UNC and NC State, I think, as a school that will garner some interest, especially depending on the type of season they're having, but not the likes of the first 4 I mentioned.

So, would FSU fans mind switching out decent ACC schools for a shot at playing pretty good Big Ten schools that are out of our geographic area like Nebraska (significant history there), Michigan (some history here as well), Ohio State (more history) and Penn State (some history, too)? Um, I think FSU fans would be receptive of that. If that means they trade a Wake for a Minnesota or a Duke for an Indiana now and then I don't see how that changes things.

---------------------

West Virginia doesn't look very Texan/Plains-statesy to me, but they joined the Big 12. They did it because it was the right move. They needed to get out of the Big East. Despite their travel issues, they are poised to make roughly $17M/year more in the Big 12 than Big East. It wasn't perfect but they definitely came out winners. I think the same case could be made for FSU. The SEC would not be a perfect fit for FSU imo, as I think FSU has higher academic aspirations than many current SEC schools can claim. however, it would obviously be a damn good fit athletically. I think the Big Ten would also be a very good fit athletically, only mediocre geographically, but an exceptional fit academically. Neither the SEC or Big Ten would be the wrong answer for FSU, and I believe FSU knows this. I believe many FSU fans have come around to accepting and many even preferring an expanded Big Ten. There are, of course, many that still prefer the SEC but it's nearly unanimous amongst supporters that given a Big Ten or SEC invite FSU must leave the ACC.

(04-05-2013 08:59 AM)Ragu Wrote:  FSU plays Virginia/UNC twice every 12 years now with the stupid alignment they have now. So they don't lose anything. FSU plays BC/Wake/Syracuse/Louisville every season while playing Georgia Tech twice every 12 years. They go a decade without playing the closest team to them in the conference. It is beyond stupid.

I still think they would have to go to 18 or 20 though. If FSU/G. Tech/UNC and another were brought aboard, it would make a lot more sense.

If FSU led, others would follow. Field of Dreams, beetches. But seriously, if FSU left, I don't think FSU or the Big Ten would have to wait very long for schools 16, 17 or 18. I mean, lose FSU and replace them with...Cincinnati or UConn? That probably won't fly with a lot of fans. Hell, Clemson may get fed up with it and just join the Big 12 with WVU and be another outlier (I'd feel for Clemson fans somewhat if that happened). But that could spark further ACC disintegration. Maybe. Maybe not. But it's not impossible.

(And I have respect for both UC and UConn, athletically and academically, but I don't see how they compete financially or all-around athletically with FSU.)

(04-05-2013 10:53 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 03:36 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:28 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:04 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU

I'm sure is keeping its options open...however, FSU going to the B1G makes no sense (see WVU to B12) unless there is a crisis.

Actually it makes plenty of sense. SEC already has Florida covered and is looking to expand to other states that they don't already have a presence in yet (North Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Kansas) while the B1G wants to expand down the coast and eventually into Florida.

B1G makes more money than any other conference, especially after they renegotiate in a few years.

The SEC still makes more sense because 1) FSU would prefer the SEC, and 2) if it really came down to it, the SEC would offer FSU just to block the B1G from getting any sort of foothold in Florida.

I agree with this...especially if getting into VA or NC if not a possibility with flagship universities. I still think FSU as a brand adds more value than simply adding another state for SEC network subscriber fees.

I don't think many of your SEC brethren agree with you. I think the difference in revenue may be negligible between adding FSU and either NC or VA. I just think most prefer the decreased competition with similar financial benefits. Jmo.

"But what I don't think you are considering is - I may be wrong, that most FSU fans are not excited by many of our current ACC matchups. Miami, GT, Clemson and VT are the only games that are assured to be of high interest in Tallahassee. Duke, BC, Wake, UVA and even Cuse and Pitt aren't likely to excite fans much."

So you think playing Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Michigan State, and Illinois will make Tallahassee party central? Not to knock those schools, but it just doesn't make for an exciting road trip for Florida folks. FSU hates playing cupcake conference teams. Boring, boring, boring...lot of empty seats at those Doak Campbell games. Same in the SEC. We don't like those walk over games you talk about being financially beneficial for revenue. I think the SEC fans actually do agree with me on this. Let them answer your question for me... FSU will maybe get big games with OSU, Penn State, and Michigan. How about in the SEC? Florida, SC, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Aggies, LSU. Now that makes for a nice schedule. Very travel friendly too. Throw a couple Big XII or PAC teams OOC and that's awesome.

I really don't think FSU fits in the Big 10. They really only make sense in the ACC as it is or the SEC. If they were to ever go to the Big 10 or 12 it would have to be with many other southern schools to make sense.