SWC 2.0

NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
TXST
UNT
Rice
ASU
ULL
La.Tech
USM

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

(04-08-2013 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

This sounds great and everything but sadly it doesn't change the fact that certain schools want nothing to do with any type of conference association with other schools. I'm just not sure how truly regional these Go5 conferences can really get for that very reason. If that wasn't the case the SBC Western schools wouldn't be pitching a fit over any additions from the SLC.

(04-08-2013 06:48 PM)HERD-it-wuz-DJ Wrote:  I believe Rice still owns the name SouthWest Conference.
Just saying

I actually think its SMU but i could be wrong.

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 08:09 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  CUSA is toast doesn't matter if they go to 16 today or stay at 14.

Wal-Mart didn't replace Sears as the world's largest retailer by following the Sears model.
Apple didn't grow past Microsoft by following the Microsoft model.
GM didn't get passed by Toyota because Toyota followed the GM model.

Right now AAC and CUSA are trying to follow the SEC/ACC/Big XII model and because of it they are doomed.

Sooner or later someone understands they cannot make fat money on national TV and their only path to national TV is minor channels or attendance killing weeknights.

Eventually someone goes to regional TV for their money and they go to YouTube, or Netflix or Hulu or Amazon or even video game producers to distribute their games nationally on Saturdays. They will want to be there because those are easy to use, installed on a huge number of the new TV and Blu-ray players. They are easily accessible not just on TV but on iPhones, iPads, Kindles, and Android phones which means that's where the recruits are watching.

Odds are the one who figures it out first is either CUSA West or someone sitting at the University of Houston figures it out, convinces the AD and president and the president starts making phone calls. The Fox SW family covers Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana and bits of Mississippi and New Mexico.

They will offer something that hasn't been offered before. A large inventory of intra-regional games by relevant teams.

Overhead was be dramatically lower, many games within driving distance of fans and potentially fan drawing rivalries far exceeding such greats as Houston vs. USF, UTSA vs. UAB, and Arkansas State vs. Georgia State.

The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

You're not taking into account the fact that Fox sports net is about to become Fox Sports and Fox sports 2. They are going to need programming. what better way than to Head straight to the conference directly in their area with relevant teams. that gets you cable subscriptions in your region, as well as advertisers in that region because you know there is a good shot that the demographics you're trying to reach are the ones watching the game. you have national advertisers as well.

Also as Arkstfan mentioned sports has not even skimmed the surface of the media options that are out there with gaming systems,Youtube,vimeo, apple TV i mean the possibilities are endless. someone just has to go first. might as well be a conference that isn't going to cost a ton (BCS) but will look good on TV.

Plus a regional conference of those particular schools or even if they don't break away, that division is mostly where the schools in that division recruit.

Eventually some conference is going to go for these new media options and make a fortune. I mean think about if they have fox sports 1,2 and fox sports net. thats some good options right there. but partner with say Microsoft with the Xbox. make fox sports available to every gamer that plays online for a small fee. with the amount of people in this country that have Xboxes the possibilities are endless.

I should work in Advertising.

(04-08-2013 10:37 PM)stAtecamera13 Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 06:48 PM)HERD-it-wuz-DJ Wrote:  I believe Rice still owns the name SouthWest Conference.
Just saying

I actually think its SMU but i could be wrong.

Sigh...Neither SMU nor Rice ever owned the mark. I don't know how those rumors ever got started.

Here's the most recent trademark claim on the Southwest Conference name. Note that it is abandoned. Also note that the last owner was Brad Parrott, Sr. Assoc. AD at UTSA (http://www.goutsa.com/ViewArticle.dbml?D...LID=613810)

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=d...1m354d.2.1

Word Mark SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: IC 041. US 107. G and S: conducting and sponsoring college athletic competitions and activities rendered live and through the media of radio and television
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 85059585
Filing Date June 10, 2010
Current Basis 1B
Original Filing Basis 1B
Owner (APPLICANT) Parrott, Bradley D. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 22250 Estate View San Antonio TEXAS 78260
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date March 22, 2011

(04-08-2013 10:53 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:37 PM)stAtecamera13 Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 06:48 PM)HERD-it-wuz-DJ Wrote:  I believe Rice still owns the name SouthWest Conference.
Just saying

I actually think its SMU but i could be wrong.

Sigh...Neither SMU nor Rice ever owned the mark. I don't know how those rumors ever got started.

Here's the most recent trademark claim on the Southwest Conference name. Note that it is abandoned. Also note that the last owner was Brad Parrott, Sr. Assoc. AD at UTSA (http://www.goutsa.com/ViewArticle.dbml?D...LID=613810)

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=d...1m354d.2.1

Word Mark SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: IC 041. US 107. G and S: conducting and sponsoring college athletic competitions and activities rendered live and through the media of radio and television
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 85059585
Filing Date June 10, 2010
Current Basis 1B
Original Filing Basis 1B
Owner (APPLICANT) Parrott, Bradley D. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 22250 Estate View San Antonio TEXAS 78260
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date March 22, 2011

+1 for correction

(04-08-2013 10:25 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

This sounds great and everything but sadly it doesn't change the fact that certain schools want nothing to do with any type of conference association with other schools. I'm just not sure how truly regional these Go5 conferences can really get for that very reason. If that wasn't the case the SBC Western schools wouldn't be pitching a fit over any additions from the SLC.

The I don't want in if X is in is always going to be an issue.

BUT the SEC, ACC, Big 10, Pac-12, Big XII are raking fat money in. Market leaders have trouble innovating because of the inertia.

But SOMEONE is going to innovate.

Everyone talks about cord cutters and cord shavers but there is another element in play.

In 2016 when CUSA's TV deal is expiring the estimates are that 3/5ths of all televisions in the nation will have the built in capacity to access youtube, Netflix, hulu, amazon, etc. That's not counting the homes with an Xbox or playstation wired to the TV nor an Apple TV, Roku, or Boxee.

A conference that taps into the app market either by creating their own app or cutting a deal with YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Crackle, Vudu, Apple has the potential to reach more homes than are currently served by CBS Sports, the primary TV partner of C-USA and that's not counting smartphones, tablets, and computers.

A friend is an executive with a Major League Soccer team I was debating whether to subscribe to the PPV package on direct or their online service. He didn't hesitate, do the online package. With my home set-up I get the games in high def and can watch on my iPhone if I'm not at home or laptop if my wife and daughter want to watch something else.

There will be a league that values playing on Saturday to draw better crowds that wants exposure and they are going to go this way.

But it must be true because I read it on the Internet!
Lol

Thanks for the clarification.

(04-08-2013 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

I hear what your saying, but it doesn't seem to match reality. Basically, your talking about selling a bunch Houston vs Texas State type games. Interestingly, that game was available last year. CBS Sports passed. Fox Sports Net, who you seem to think would love such a game, also passed. That game was shown by CSS. I just don't see where all the money is going to come from.

(04-08-2013 11:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

I hear what your saying, but it doesn't seem to match reality. Basically, your talking about selling a bunch Houston vs Texas State type games. Interestingly, that game was available last year. CBS Sports passed. Fox Sports Net, who you seem to think would love such a game, also passed. That game was shown by CSS. I just don't see where all the money is going to come from.

Fox SW had the Astros and Rangers on in conflict with that game.

Regional television deal on a FSN Network. It can work real nice love the MVC's deal with FS Midwest. Dang wish the MVC had FBS football because they do some things right.

(04-09-2013 12:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 11:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

I hear what your saying, but it doesn't seem to match reality. Basically, your talking about selling a bunch Houston vs Texas State type games. Interestingly, that game was available last year. CBS Sports passed. Fox Sports Net, who you seem to think would love such a game, also passed. That game was shown by CSS. I just don't see where all the money is going to come from.

Fox SW had the Astros and Rangers on in conflict with that game.

All I can tell up is that from a Houston prospective, a schedule loaded with regional games against a bunch of Texas Sates and UTSA's would effectively end major college football at the University of Houston. That schedule cannot be effectively marketed against the Rockets, Dynamo, Astros, and Texans. It is what it is.

(04-09-2013 12:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 11:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

I hear what your saying, but it doesn't seem to match reality. Basically, your talking about selling a bunch Houston vs Texas State type games. Interestingly, that game was available last year. CBS Sports passed. Fox Sports Net, who you seem to think would love such a game, also passed. That game was shown by CSS. I just don't see where all the money is going to come from.

Fox SW had the Astros and Rangers on in conflict with that game.

I think people sometimes forget that as important as College football is to us, their are other sports.
BTW Attackcoog i don't want you to feel like we are ganging up on you because its not my intention at least. we just happen to be from the same school with smililar philosophies on how this would work out. We both have done/are doing extensive research on the topic. He for fun, me for school/fun.

(04-09-2013 01:27 AM)stAtecamera13 Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 12:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 11:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

I hear what your saying, but it doesn't seem to match reality. Basically, your talking about selling a bunch Houston vs Texas State type games. Interestingly, that game was available last year. CBS Sports passed. Fox Sports Net, who you seem to think would love such a game, also passed. That game was shown by CSS. I just don't see where all the money is going to come from.

Fox SW had the Astros and Rangers on in conflict with that game.

I think people sometimes forget that as important as College football is to us, their are other sports.
BTW Attackcoog i don't want you to feel like we are ganging up on you because its not my intention at least. we just happen to be from the same school with smililar philosophies on how this would work out. We both have done/are doing extensive research on the topic. He for fun, me for school/fun.

Im good. I respect both your opinions. I've discussed this stuff with ArkStfan before and I know he knows his stuff. My prospective is different due to my school. In October, the Coogs can face competition for ticket buying dollars from professional baseball (Astros-ok, marginally professional, let's call it AAA for now), football (Texans), soccer (Dynamo), and basketball (Rockets). The kind of schedule being discussed simplyncant compete in that environment. Basically, that kind of regional schedule would likely end FBS football as we know it at the University of Houston.

Not only that, but schools on the regional sports networks get lower ratings locally than they do on the ESPN's and CBS's of the world. The rough numbers I've seen show drops of around 50% or more. Now, I have to admit, I'm basing that on Houston ratings, so that could be a local phenomenon.

Still, lower ratings means less exposure for your school. That hurts in driving future ticket sales and it hurts in driving future recruiting. Recruiting is the lifeblood of a football program. Anything that adversely affects recruiting is a long term detriment to a program. If its a tv deal, then it doesn't just hurt the recruiting of an individual school--it retards the recruiting effectiveness of the entire conference.

(04-09-2013 01:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 12:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 11:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The thing is--thats valueless. CUSA is essentially doing that now. Thier contract is CBS-Sports (national first tier for 7 million a year) and Fox-Sports Net. The Fox Sports New is for 7 million a year. Getting the #1 game is not worth 7 more million to Fox Sports Net because they are only going to show it regionally. So maybe they would pay another million for the first tier game--maybe 2. Thats an 8 million dollar a year model for total media revenue. Thats just not a model I see anyone rushing to embrace. Thats a last ditch model. CUSA makes 14 million with thier current model.

If you'll notice, the two most regional FBS conferneces have the lowest media rights. The MAC and Sunbelt are barely a step above paying the networks for exposure. There is no real media value in a regional confernece. Hasnt been for years. Theres a reason nobody is doing what you are suggesting--there is just simply no money in it.

I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

I hear what your saying, but it doesn't seem to match reality. Basically, your talking about selling a bunch Houston vs Texas State type games. Interestingly, that game was available last year. CBS Sports passed. Fox Sports Net, who you seem to think would love such a game, also passed. That game was shown by CSS. I just don't see where all the money is going to come from.

Fox SW had the Astros and Rangers on in conflict with that game.

All I can tell up is that from a Houston prospective, a schedule loaded with regional games against a bunch of Texas Sates and UTSA's would effectively end major college football at the University of Houston. That schedule cannot be effectively marketed against the Rockets, Dynamo, Astros, and Texans. It is what it is.

I feel like your looking at this in a vacuum. I equate this to the more your on the better you look. no matter where your on. Say every week people in Arkansas state main recruiting area for students and athletes have several different options of seeing Arkansas state on TV some form of app. the perception changes. I notice you are using the two worst examples in your post above as far as opponents. First you just left the western division of CUSA. Second that division or conference that is being proposed has schools like LaTech, USM, Rice, stAte, ULL. thats not exactly chopped liver when it comes to football. thats at least 4 conference championships in the last 2 years. and third, Didn't TXST beat you guys this year....
Football at Houston would not be "Dead" what you would have is a regional conference with solid opponents that could fill the stands with a tv deal that reached people and recruits for advertisers in brand new innovative ways and made money and saved on travel.

(04-09-2013 01:40 AM)stAtecamera13 Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 01:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 12:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 11:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I will wager I've been involved in more multi-million dollar athletic TV contracts than you have and I will lay down real cash money that Turnberry has been involved in more than you and I combined.

First, if you think that is what CUSA is doing, you mis-understand either what I wrote or what C-USA is doing.

The CUSA deal allows CBS to skim the cream off the top. They take first pick. That inherently reduces the value of the regional package YET the regional package despite not having the best choice of games pays a reported amount equal to the CBS deal and many of those games on Fox are only being cleared on a few of the Fox channels reaching fewer potential homes.

CUSA gave CBS the top tier because they wanted national exposure that Fox would not guarantee. Despite taking leftovers the regional product had identical value to Fox.

The CUSA deal when it was cut had six schools in the old Fox SW service territory. Two Fox South, One Fox Tennessee (part of old South), One Fox Carolina, one Fox Ohio, One in the service territory of Fox Florida and Sun Sports.

There was no critical mass except the Fox SW territory with an abundance of game (Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Tulane, UTEP). SW had a lot of internal content to pick from. Fox Ohio has no real interest outside Marshall. Fox Florida little interest outside UCF.

Last year Fox SW had no access to Houston vs. La.Tech nor Houston vs. Tulsa because CBS took them. If those games had been available to Fox Sports their package would have been worth more because both teams were inside their service territory. The year before CBS took UTEP and Tulane both in their territory. Fox bid based on the fact they KNEW they wouldn't get some of those games.

The MAC is a regional league BUT few MAC teams draw fans, for the past five years they have averaged fewer fans per game than the Sun Belt. Their most consistent program of late isn't in a Fox regional primary service territory (NIU) and Buffalo isn't in a primary area either. The remaining 10 full members are split among three Fox territories.

The Sun Belt from a regional TV perspective is NOT very regional. The Sun Belt when their contract was done was split across territory served by four different Fox Regionals and they ended up signing with CSS/CST with far less penetration (not available on Direct, Dish, UVerse, Verizon and only later Time-Warner in Texas).

I hear what your saying, but it doesn't seem to match reality. Basically, your talking about selling a bunch Houston vs Texas State type games. Interestingly, that game was available last year. CBS Sports passed. Fox Sports Net, who you seem to think would love such a game, also passed. That game was shown by CSS. I just don't see where all the money is going to come from.

Fox SW had the Astros and Rangers on in conflict with that game.

All I can tell up is that from a Houston prospective, a schedule loaded with regional games against a bunch of Texas Sates and UTSA's would effectively end major college football at the University of Houston. That schedule cannot be effectively marketed against the Rockets, Dynamo, Astros, and Texans. It is what it is.

I feel like your looking at this in a vacuum. I equate this to the more your on the better you look. no matter where your on. Say every week people in Arkansas state main recruiting area for students and athletes have several different options of seeing Arkansas state on TV some form of app. the perception changes. I notice you are using the two worst examples in your post above as far as opponents. First you just left the western division of CUSA. Second that division or conference that is being proposed has schools like LaTech, USM, Rice, stAte, ULL. thats not exactly chopped liver when it comes to football. thats at least 4 conference championships in the last 2 years. and third, Didn't TXST beat you guys this year....
Football at Houston would not be "Dead" what you would have is a regional conference with solid opponents that could fill the stands with a tv deal that reached people and recruits for advertisers in brand new innovative ways and made money and saved on travel.

Yup. Texas State did beat us. Appalachian State beat Michigan. It's one game. Anything can happen in one game. They played great--we played like it happens.

I think we both agree that being on tv is good. No argument there. Every Houston game was televised last year (though one was on the Pac12 network which has virtually no availability in Houston). Here's where I differ. To me, there's a network pecking order. I thinks it's better to be on ABC than ESPN. Its better to be on ESPN-2 than ESPN-U. ESPN-U is better than CBS-Soprts. It's better to be on CBS-Sports than Fox Sports Net. These networks get progressively smaller and reach fewer home. More is obviously better--buts its also important to be where the casual fan can stumble upon you. That's where being on ABC and ESPN helps.

I think you do whatever is necessary to get your school in a position to be on national tv as much as possible. More exposure helps to build fan bases, increases ticket sales, and improves recruiting. I'm a huge believer in the national tv model.

(04-09-2013 02:10 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 01:40 AM)stAtecamera13 Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 01:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 12:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 11:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I hear what your saying, but it doesn't seem to match reality. Basically, your talking about selling a bunch Houston vs Texas State type games. Interestingly, that game was available last year. CBS Sports passed. Fox Sports Net, who you seem to think would love such a game, also passed. That game was shown by CSS. I just don't see where all the money is going to come from.

Fox SW had the Astros and Rangers on in conflict with that game.

All I can tell up is that from a Houston prospective, a schedule loaded with regional games against a bunch of Texas Sates and UTSA's would effectively end major college football at the University of Houston. That schedule cannot be effectively marketed against the Rockets, Dynamo, Astros, and Texans. It is what it is.

I feel like your looking at this in a vacuum. I equate this to the more your on the better you look. no matter where your on. Say every week people in Arkansas state main recruiting area for students and athletes have several different options of seeing Arkansas state on TV some form of app. the perception changes. I notice you are using the two worst examples in your post above as far as opponents. First you just left the western division of CUSA. Second that division or conference that is being proposed has schools like LaTech, USM, Rice, stAte, ULL. thats not exactly chopped liver when it comes to football. thats at least 4 conference championships in the last 2 years. and third, Didn't TXST beat you guys this year....
Football at Houston would not be "Dead" what you would have is a regional conference with solid opponents that could fill the stands with a tv deal that reached people and recruits for advertisers in brand new innovative ways and made money and saved on travel.

Yup. Texas State did beat us. Appalachian State beat Michigan. It's one game. Anything can happen in one game. They played great--we played like it happens.

I think we both agree that being on tv is good. No argument there. Every Houston game was televised last year (though one was on the Pac12 network which has virtually no availability in Houston). Here's where I differ. To me, there's a network pecking order. I thinks it's better to be on ABC than ESPN. Its better to be on ESPN-2 than ESPN-U. ESPN-U is better than CBS-Soprts. It's better to be on CBS-Sports than Fox Sports Net. These networks get progressively smaller and reach fewer home. More is obviously better--buts its also important to be where the casual fan can stumble upon you. That's where being on ABC and ESPN helps.

I think you do whatever is necessary to get your school in a position to be on national tv as much as possible. More exposure helps to build fan bases, increases ticket sales, and improves recruiting. I'm a huge believer in the national tv model.

There is defiantly a pecking order, but in the case of stAte and UL, we get on tv because of the sunbelt deal twice a year. AT THE MOST. now espn3 is a different story but when you are getting that limited, if you have the shot to be exposed more often to a lesser amount eventually there is a point where your gain is the same. This is where the added mediums such as Apps, and internet television, come in. all these entities are looking for programing. even if its rebroadcasts. Id love to be able to tell a recruit that his family can see every game he ever plays no matter where they are in the world and give him a list of 3-4 different options where he can be seen Vs 2 or 3 ESPN games a year.

I think our difference in opinion is in the fact that houston is in a CBS league currently and stAte is in a ESPN CSS league. and neither of us are in a league that every game can be watched through an xbox no matter where we are.

New media is changing every day and eventually someone is gonna have to change and be the first guy through over the wall. Might as well be us.

there are always renegotiations.

(04-09-2013 01:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  All I can tell up is that from a Houston prospective, a schedule loaded with regional games against a bunch of Texas Sates and UTSA's would effectively end major college football at the University of Houston. That schedule cannot be effectively marketed against the Rockets, Dynamo, Astros, and Texans. It is what it is.

Who says it would be a bunch of Texas State's and UTSA's.

Looking at the Fox SW footprint. You have 14 FBS non in a contract league in that distribution territory, Four are AAC so that means three already that you want to affiliate and one more you have decades with. After that you pick up maybe five more. For 9 and a full round-robin schedule. And you can do it without any Texas States or UTSA's and if you do want them, they are diluted.

Houston
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
Arkansas State
Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana Tech
Louisiana Lafayette
Rice
North Texas
Texas State
Texas San-Antonio
UTEP
NMSU

(04-08-2013 06:59 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  I think the East Coast schools would be better off going with a regional conference approach. Seems like you would have better rivalries with ECU, Charlotte, App State, Old Dominion, James Madison, etc... In one conference rather than being spread out the way they are.

1 of those doesn't fit with the other. 1 has been Division 1A/FBS for the entire existence of that division and the others are not there yet.