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Loyola to MVC
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MSUBear42 Offline
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Post: #81
Re: RE: Loyola to MVC
(04-15-2013 08:40 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  
(04-15-2013 07:43 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  It has NOTHING to do with one year. We know what we can be and have always believed it. We had a horrible record the year after Turgeon left since he couldn't recruit all that well. We have the support, resources and drive to stay on top for some time. Would love to see a few of the other MVC schools step up.

I'm not holding my breath.

You contradicted yourself:

(04-15-2013 07:41 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  And you still didn't make the tournament and fell into oblivion the next season. Congrats on that.

Wichita. We beat you. Quit being d-bags. Who gives a crap if it was "just one year," you said you wanted to see other MVC schools show commitment. We beat your asses to win it three years ago, what the f* do you call that?

WE ARE. MO STATE
04-15-2013 12:56 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Loyola to MVC
(04-15-2013 10:37 AM)bullet Wrote:  A-10 is by no means a no-brainer. They are losing Butler, Xavier, Temple and Charlotte and probably 2 out of St. Louis, Dayton and Richmond. UMass will leave if they get an invitation to someplace better than the MAC (and may even consider the MAC given what's happening to A10). So that gives you St. Bonaventure, Fordham, Duquesne, St. Joseph's, LaSalle, George Washington, Rhode Island and VCU + whoever they are inviting. Note the retainees include the bottom 5 schools in this year's standings. And almost none of those last 8 schools draw flies. They mostly play in tiny gyms while MVC has pretty good attendance.

So you go play in embarrassingly small gyms before tiny crowds far away from you and your traditional rivals? And for media money that isn't much different? A-10 is looking like its turning into a typical 1-2 bid league so tourney money advantage will start to disappear. Doesn't sound like a good basis for future recruiting. And there are some really bad teams remaining in the A10 to offset the few good programs. St. Bonaventure, Fordham and Duquesne have been absolutely horrible in recent years.

Even with the massive defections, I think the A-10 will be more like a 2-3 bid league. La Salle made the sweet 16 this year. As you pointed out, one of the Dayton/Richmond/Saint Louis triumvirate will stick around. Davidson and VCU have become tournament regulars. George Mason is a decent program. That's a pretty good upper half to work with.
04-15-2013 01:25 PM
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College Basketball Fan Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Loyola to MVC
(04-15-2013 09:17 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I totally agree with you with respect to Wichita State's thinking. Once again, though, this is not really Wichita State's choice. Wichita State accepting an A-10 invite is a no-brainer with or without SLU and/or Dayton. However, it's not clear at all that the A-10 is interested in Wichita State. We've already seen how the A-10 is going to add George Mason and Davidson, which indicates that they're focused east.

There are some general themes that I've seen in conference realignment discussions over the years (and this goes from the most powerful conferences down to the lowest ones on the totem pole):

(1) Everyone thinks that their favorite school has more conference options than they really do.

(2) Everyone thinks that their favorite school's conference has more candidate options than they really do.

(3) Everyone thinks that their conference commissioner is asleep, not being proactive, not listening to the fans, making the wrong conference realignment decisions, etc.

So, the question is not whether the A-10 is good for Wichita State (which it most certainly is), but rather if Wichita State is good for the A-10 in terms of what that conference is looking for.

By the way, this leads to another reason why the MVC is looking toward the Chicago market first and foremost as opposed to even going after Denver (which has a good market). The A-10 demographic advantage dwarfs the MVC at this point. It's not even about whether Loyola has potential - if the MVC wants to even have a chance to be competitive with the A-10, it has to start moving east. Just look at the geographically-friendly options that the A-10 has for replacements compared to the MVC today. None of those replacements would even consider the MVC right now, but if it starts moving into Chicago and eastward, then it at least becomes a discussion point.

Don't worry; I've given up on the MVC being competitive with the A10 for the time being. I think Wichita State is currently the best school from either conference, but I just don't think other teams in the MVC have invested enough or correctly. I have slight confidence in Bradley and UNI (maybe MSU), and little to no confidence in the rest of the conference.

If the MVC wanted to compete with the A10, they would have picked up Belmont, Valparaiso, and Denver. You'd bring in strong schools with decent recent success and expand the Valley's range. The Valley didn't do that, and it shows what they want to do. The Valley's goal isn't to compete. They want to reduce costs, stay in the safe zone of Illinois and Indiana and play the "safe" game.
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2013 02:10 PM by College Basketball Fan.)
04-15-2013 02:04 PM
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Poliicious Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Loyola to MVC
(04-15-2013 01:25 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(04-15-2013 10:37 AM)bullet Wrote:  A-10 is by no means a no-brainer. They are losing Butler, Xavier, Temple and Charlotte and probably 2 out of St. Louis, Dayton and Richmond. UMass will leave if they get an invitation to someplace better than the MAC (and may even consider the MAC given what's happening to A10). So that gives you St. Bonaventure, Fordham, Duquesne, St. Joseph's, LaSalle, George Washington, Rhode Island and VCU + whoever they are inviting. Note the retainees include the bottom 5 schools in this year's standings. And almost none of those last 8 schools draw flies. They mostly play in tiny gyms while MVC has pretty good attendance.

So you go play in embarrassingly small gyms before tiny crowds far away from you and your traditional rivals? And for media money that isn't much different? A-10 is looking like its turning into a typical 1-2 bid league so tourney money advantage will start to disappear. Doesn't sound like a good basis for future recruiting. And there are some really bad teams remaining in the A10 to offset the few good programs. St. Bonaventure, Fordham and Duquesne have been absolutely horrible in recent years.

Even with the massive defections, I think the A-10 will be more like a 2-3 bid league. La Salle made the sweet 16 this year. As you pointed out, one of the Dayton/Richmond/Saint Louis triumvirate will stick around. Davidson and VCU have become tournament regulars. George Mason is a decent program. That's a pretty good upper half to work with.

GMU was in the Final Four 5 years ago, VCU 4 years ago. Davidson lost to Marquette (who made the Sweet 16 this year) in their opening round game by 1 pt. A10 obviously is taking some hits this year and next but they are adding solid replacements.
04-15-2013 09:39 PM
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SubGod22 Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Loyola to MVC
(04-15-2013 08:40 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  
(04-15-2013 07:43 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  It has NOTHING to do with one year. We know what we can be and have always believed it. We had a horrible record the year after Turgeon left since he couldn't recruit all that well. We have the support, resources and drive to stay on top for some time. Would love to see a few of the other MVC schools step up.

I'm not holding my breath.

You contradicted yourself:

(04-15-2013 07:41 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  And you still didn't make the tournament and fell into oblivion the next season. Congrats on that.
Not really. The difference is I see Wichita going all in and investing like they need to to compete at the highest level. I don't see the same for MSU and their shoestring budget.
04-17-2013 09:33 AM
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SubGod22 Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Loyola to MVC
(04-15-2013 12:56 PM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  
(04-15-2013 08:40 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  
(04-15-2013 07:43 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  It has NOTHING to do with one year. We know what we can be and have always believed it. We had a horrible record the year after Turgeon left since he couldn't recruit all that well. We have the support, resources and drive to stay on top for some time. Would love to see a few of the other MVC schools step up.

I'm not holding my breath.

You contradicted yourself:

(04-15-2013 07:41 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  And you still didn't make the tournament and fell into oblivion the next season. Congrats on that.

Wichita. We beat you. Quit being d-bags. Who gives a crap if it was "just one year," you said you wanted to see other MVC schools show commitment. We beat your asses to win it three years ago, what the f* do you call that?

WE ARE. MO STATE
I'd call that your flash in the pan that resulted in nothing of actual substance.

And beat our asses? You won by one game.

Enjoy Thursday night again.
04-17-2013 09:36 AM
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MSUBear42 Offline
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Post: #87
Loyola to MVC
(04-17-2013 09:36 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  
(04-15-2013 12:56 PM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  
(04-15-2013 08:40 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  
(04-15-2013 07:43 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  It has NOTHING to do with one year. We know what we can be and have always believed it. We had a horrible record the year after Turgeon left since he couldn't recruit all that well. We have the support, resources and drive to stay on top for some time. Would love to see a few of the other MVC schools step up.

I'm not holding my breath.

You contradicted yourself:

(04-15-2013 07:41 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  And you still didn't make the tournament and fell into oblivion the next season. Congrats on that.

Wichita. We beat you. Quit being d-bags. Who gives a crap if it was "just one year," you said you wanted to see other MVC schools show commitment. We beat your asses to win it three years ago, what the f* do you call that?

WE ARE. MO STATE
I'd call that your flash in the pan that resulted in nothing of actual substance.

And beat our asses? You won by one game.

Enjoy Thursday night again.

Classy as always... You guys are no Creighton, your success has been pretty recent as well.
04-17-2013 09:43 AM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Loyola to MVC
(04-17-2013 09:43 AM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  Classy as always... You guys are no Creighton, your success has been pretty recent as well.

to be fair to Wichita, they do have one Sweet 16 and one Final Four appearance in the the last 10 years.
04-17-2013 12:12 PM
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