(04-20-2013 08:55 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The other issue left out of the discussion is that if the ACC holds together, by not joining them in a television deal the Irish have locked themselves into the superior earning position by garnering a conferences share for all sports except the most valuable (football) which they of course keep to themselves. That makes them no worse than equals with North Carolina financially and potentially Lords over the rest when it comes to income. The longer that arrangement lasts (apparently until 2025) the more power and leverage they will gain over the ACC until they can dictate their terms like they did in the Big East.

I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining the ACC for television rights would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

(04-20-2013 08:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:12 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 05:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 05:33 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I had a better outlook on life and a lot more hope for my kids future before I read your post.

It is better to be prepared than surprised. If you think you know the truth because you listen to the news...good luck. If you think you've been educated and you are under 40...good luck with that too!

How much does your Athletic Department give back to the University?

The two are separate. Last year there was some kind of give back and it may be the first of many. But the vast majority of the money goes to support non-revenue and title 9 sports like they do everywhere else. Which by the way is fairly much the norm in the SEC with a few exceptions. But, there are discussions about that becoming a bigger mission as state funding suffers setbacks. Most employees and much of the faculty of the University went for a 3 year stretch with no raises from 2008 through 2011. Last year there were merit based raises in which 3% was the maximum. If you were fortunate to get a 3% merit raise (and there were few per department) then the cost of health insurance went up about 2.7% which meant that during a 4 year period in which the purchasing power of the dollar shrank significantly that the average university employee and many faculty lost money (not a lot but still a loss). When the SSI with-holdings went up this year it finished off most of the 3% raises.

Still Auburn has done better than a lot of regional schools in this respect. Some losses have been stiffer, up to and including hiring freezes and some cuts. So there will be more support from athletic contracts drifting back into the general University coffers.

The SEC had some schools that suffered ticket sales declines and Auburn was one of those, but that was do to an on field product that wreaked under Chiz. There were 83,700 at A Day this afternoon. The SEC as a whole suffered a slight decline in ticket sales last year. Other conferences had a few percentage points more of a decline. Priorities are changing. And, HD TV is more enjoyable in many circumstances than the games. I've had season tickets for 40 plus, but have enjoyed the comforts of my on home more and more. I'll have season tickets again this year. But I am beginning to question the merits of sending of $1000 for tickets and another $800 for the right to order them. Many folks haven't had the luxury of weighing that decision. That's another reason this realignment mess is different. And the trends towards declines in ticket revenues are expected to continue downwards. College presidents are looking at their faculty and staff and questioning every state budget cut and trying to find new revenue to keep old and trusted faces around. Even whole programs of education are being considered for elimination. 100 million will mean a lot more to schools than many people realize especially if that is 10 million more per year you can bank on when laying out your 10 year plan. That's not designed to bust anyone's bubble, just to sober them up a bit.

"Revenues from the NBC contract have played a key role in Notre Dame's financial aid endowment since the start of the relationship in 1991. University officers decided then to use a portion of the football television contract revenue for undergraduate scholarship endowment (not athletic scholarships). To date, some 6,300 Notre Dame undergraduate students have received nearly $80 million in aid from revenue generated through the NBC contract.

The University also has committed revenue from NBC to endow doctoral fellowships in its Graduate School and MBA scholarships in its Mendoza College of Business."


http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-...13aaa.html

"Unlike the other programs on our list, Notre Dame's athletic department operates under the umbrella of the university and is not run as its own distinct entity. As a result, a much higher share of profits are retained by university for academic use. The football team's contribution to academics totaled $21.1 million for the 2006-2007 season--that's as much as the next five most valuable teams contributed to their respective schools combined."



http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/20/notre-d...eball.html

Terry I've thought for sometime that this was one of the most commendable aspects of Notre Dame athletics. I knew you guys did that, but didn't know the numbers.

I think that economic triage is going to reel in a lot of these high dollar athletic budgets in the years ahead. Auburn's will be one of them, but I think in the long run this will give us all a much healthier perspective about the role of athletics at Universities.

(04-20-2013 09:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 08:55 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 03:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I don't know if I buy into that. ND has been independent forever. They are not going to give that up unless they absolutely have to. It's a part of their mystique. If they are forced to join a conference for whatever reason, that leverage disappears. Playing the ACC 5 games a year is nothing like they've ever done for any other conference. I believe everyone is downplaying how significant that really is.

You don't read too well. The point was over the separate television deal when simply joining the ACC for television rights would have boosted the value to the other ACC teams at no real expense to N.D. as ESPN would have been glad to match them. The post had nothing to do with independence whatsoever. The way the deal is set up now the other members of the conference only benefit a little less than 2 million and N.D.'s presence lends no further stability.

And point number 2 is that you do not acknowledge that the Irish will find more value in the ACC for their other sports than they could have received in the Big East and I consider the basketball to be close to a wash between the two. In the final analysis Notre Dame holds onto their most valuable asset while they earn more for the other sports. If they don't provide a tangible benefit to the conference other than half of 5 football games then how are they a plus? The bump you received is just that, a bump. It is far from bringing you to any kind of competitive equilibrium in revenue.

As long as ND has a network that will allow them to be independent in football, that's where they will stay.

The problem with what you also said is the ACC is looking at ND as a savior. Well they're not. Every team in the ACC has to look in the mirror and get better just like the SEC teams did. If FSU and Miami had not fallen off a cliff there would be no discussion around ACC instability.

The ACC just went and got it's own version of a "scheduling alliance". Yes the ACC will receive a little bump in TV revenue and NCAA tourney credits. ACC also gets another quality program that has great Olympic sports and more content to set up for a conference network. What you fail to realize is a lot of teams in the ACC don't get all caught up in "who makes the most money". You think BC really cares? Wake Forest? Duke? Miami? The ACC has 6 private schools. Their desires are different. ND can make more money in another league, but they don't have to do it. Those teams in the ACC who do care are starting to realize they can make up the revenue gap without moving at all. Home football games are worth millions and games against ND are on the high side of that. Miami is a perfect poster child for that. Outside of the FSU game, they tend to avg around 40k for home football games. A ND home football game for them would probably get at least 70k which ends up being an additional 3 million. When you're only talking about a few million dollar difference between teams, it doesn't make sense to go anywhere if you're happy. There's your stability.

(04-20-2013 08:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 07:12 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(04-20-2013 05:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It is better to be prepared than surprised. If you think you know the truth because you listen to the news...good luck. If you think you've been educated and you are under 40...good luck with that too!

How much does your Athletic Department give back to the University?

The two are separate. Last year there was some kind of give back and it may be the first of many. But the vast majority of the money goes to support non-revenue and title 9 sports like they do everywhere else. Which by the way is fairly much the norm in the SEC with a few exceptions. But, there are discussions about that becoming a bigger mission as state funding suffers setbacks. Most employees and much of the faculty of the University went for a 3 year stretch with no raises from 2008 through 2011. Last year there were merit based raises in which 3% was the maximum. If you were fortunate to get a 3% merit raise (and there were few per department) then the cost of health insurance went up about 2.7% which meant that during a 4 year period in which the purchasing power of the dollar shrank significantly that the average university employee and many faculty lost money (not a lot but still a loss). When the SSI with-holdings went up this year it finished off most of the 3% raises.

Still Auburn has done better than a lot of regional schools in this respect. Some losses have been stiffer, up to and including hiring freezes and some cuts. So there will be more support from athletic contracts drifting back into the general University coffers.

The SEC had some schools that suffered ticket sales declines and Auburn was one of those, but that was do to an on field product that wreaked under Chiz. There were 83,700 at A Day this afternoon. The SEC as a whole suffered a slight decline in ticket sales last year. Other conferences had a few percentage points more of a decline. Priorities are changing. And, HD TV is more enjoyable in many circumstances than the games. I've had season tickets for 40 plus, but have enjoyed the comforts of my on home more and more. I'll have season tickets again this year. But I am beginning to question the merits of sending of $1000 for tickets and another $800 for the right to order them. Many folks haven't had the luxury of weighing that decision. That's another reason this realignment mess is different. And the trends towards declines in ticket revenues are expected to continue downwards. College presidents are looking at their faculty and staff and questioning every state budget cut and trying to find new revenue to keep old and trusted faces around. Even whole programs of education are being considered for elimination. 100 million will mean a lot more to schools than many people realize especially if that is 10 million more per year you can bank on when laying out your 10 year plan. That's not designed to bust anyone's bubble, just to sober them up a bit.

"Revenues from the NBC contract have played a key role in Notre Dame's financial aid endowment since the start of the relationship in 1991. University officers decided then to use a portion of the football television contract revenue for undergraduate scholarship endowment (not athletic scholarships). To date, some 6,300 Notre Dame undergraduate students have received nearly $80 million in aid from revenue generated through the NBC contract.

The University also has committed revenue from NBC to endow doctoral fellowships in its Graduate School and MBA scholarships in its Mendoza College of Business."


http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-...13aaa.html

"Unlike the other programs on our list, Notre Dame's athletic department operates under the umbrella of the university and is not run as its own distinct entity. As a result, a much higher share of profits are retained by university for academic use. The football team's contribution to academics totaled $21.1 million for the 2006-2007 season--that's as much as the next five most valuable teams contributed to their respective schools combined."



http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/20/notre-d...eball.html

Terry I've thought for sometime that this was one of the most commendable aspects of Notre Dame athletics. I knew you guys did that, but didn't know the numbers.

I think that economic triage is going to reel in a lot of these high dollar athletic budgets in the years ahead. Auburn's will be one of them, but I think in the long run this will give us all a much healthier perspective about the role of athletics at Universities.

Obviously, ND is a private university that doesn't rely on state funds and is one of the few athletic programs in the country that makes a profit.

Those dollars listed above to the academic side are paid after fully funding its athletic department of 26 men and women's sports and are before the increased new NBC deal.

ND could funnel those profits back into the sports programs in the form of bigger, newer facilities, higher coaching salaries, etc. but chooses instead to send them over to the academic side of the university.

People always accuse ND of being "greedy" but it could make more TV money in the Big Ten or Big 12 and as a private university can't rely on state funding, passes up other athletic revenue sources (conference membership, naming rights, stadium advertising, jumbotron, etc.) and invests a large part of the athletic profits to fund academic scholarships.

(Does anyone doubt that ND could make more TV money in the Big Ten or the Big 12 with its own Tier 3 deal?).

It just sees itself better served as a football independent with its own TV deal and a large portion of its athletic department profits used to fund academic scholarships.

Each school handles "the academic side" in a different manner.
TerryD tell us that Notre Dame uses athletic revenue to fund academic scholarships. At Carolina, The Educational Foundation (aka The Rams Club) pays all of the scholarship costs of all scholarship athletes so that no University monies are used for athletic scholarships. Those monies are then available for academic scholarships and need based scholarships.
The Rams Club also pays for facilities and subsidizes coaches salaries. As an example, The Rams Club paid for the constructution of the Dean Dome.
Public schools have to operate a little differently than private ones.