Starting to sound like the 2 International Bowls picking two teams each from the Go5 + Army + BYU equals the precursor to the Go5 4-team playoff broadcast and owned by Fox Sports instead of ESPN. This seems like all roads lead to there eventually. This is exactly what the P5 wants and seems inevitable now.

It will mirror the P5 playoff of ESPN.

P5 - Go5
ESPN - Fox
Two P4 Playoff bowls selected from the P5 - Two International Go5 Bowls selecting from the Go5
P5 - 64 teams + ND / Go5 - 63 teams + BYU and Army

P5 and Go5 will have limited games together OOC due to 9-game schedules and FCS totally cut out.

Only connection left between the two is the one Go5 vs P5 in "Access" Bowl

That "Access" will be completely cut off when next BCS CFP contract is negotiated. At that time a 3rd "International" Bowl will be added as a championship of the winners if the soon to be current 2 Go5 "International" Bowls.

Definitely agree these international games have to be at the top of the selection order for the G5 if they're going to be a success.

Beyond that I think the chances of a breakaway are slim. There are too many issues to sort through. The chances that will see a breakaway by 2020 in advance of the next CFP contract is 25%.

Break won't happen. AAC is owned by ESPN.

ummm the Toronto international bowl existed for several years until the Big East dropped the affiliation - recreating it to me does not spell a breakaway - it says to me - the other conferences want bowls to send their teams to! The Ireland and Dubai games are wishful thinking on someone's part -- you need months planning to pull off that type of game, not a couple weeks.

(06-14-2013 09:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Definitely agree these international games have to be at the top of the selection order for the G5 if they're going to be a success.

Beyond that I think the chances of a breakaway are slim. There are too many issues to sort through. The chances that will see a breakaway by 2020 in advance of the next CFP contract is 25%.

Those international games may very well be the dumbest idea in a long time. Dubai?? Please.

If I have a top G5 team the last thing I want is for my team to be selected for a bowl game in Dubai or Ireland.

As for a break away, I have yet to have anyone explain to me how a break away makes sense for the networks. How does fewer teams and alienating the fan bases of half the college FBS schools make for a better product? How does it enhance advertisers if the audience is smaller or even worse, a vocal portion of the audience is alienated and angry? How does having some states without a single school in the new division help TV? How does having many folks lose access to reasonably close games of major college football help drive the sports popularity and its ratings? How do these factors add up to a net positive for the networks who are footing the bill? Might they actually cause the networks to reduce future contracts?

Currently, the haves of the FBS world get about 90% of the money. The media contracts of the have-nots are about 10% of what the power conferences make. Assuming both are being fairly valued---the G5 isnt "taking" anything from the P-5. The 10% they take is apparantly about the portion of the contract attributable to their presence.

Im just not seeing any big value in a split is coming from either the network point of view or the P-5 point of view. Its interesting you never hear network executives say its a good idea. You never hear the general public of the typical fan screaming thier fervent desire that they MUST have a split NOW!!!! The only place you hear this desire is from a handful of AD's. If these AD's dont want to schedule G5 teams---dont. Nobody forces a single G5 team to appear on a single P-5 schedule. Fact is, theres no real demand for a split. Its simply the one place the AD's see where they might be able to make an extra few buck (emphasis on a few--remember, they already get 90% of the money).

Now, the only place I do see value in a split is in basketball. In basketball, the P-5 do not enjoy the huge 90% share. They get closer to 50%.

Where I do think a split makes sense is if all of FBS splits from the rest of Div-1. That would eliminate 225 FCS and non-football playing schools. Yet, it would leave the breakaway large enough to field a solid 64 team basketball tournament that could create a legitimate national champion and still have a degee of the Cinderella factor. The result would likley be a slightly higher football payout (as football monies going toFCS schools is elimnated) and much larger basketball paydays for the P-5.

I don't think Dubai is as stupid as it sounds at first. That is, if it is Dubai that is pushing it and not some idea that originated here.

I don't think a decade or two ago that anyone would have thought that Dubai could host the best golf and horse races in the world either. If they put their mind to something, they have the money to do it right.

(06-14-2013 10:11 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  I don't think Dubai is as stupid as it sounds at first. That is, if it is Dubai that is pushing it and not some idea that originated here.

I don't think a decade or two ago that anyone would have thought that Dubai could host the best golf and horse races in the world either. If they put their mind to something, they have the money to do it right.

If you want to put a OOC game in Dubai, fine. I think a bowl game is about the worst idea I can think of. I think it would suck to have a really good team and have it get shipped off to Dubai where only a handfull of fans can go--and I dont even want to consider the security issues surrounding a bunch of Americans in a stadium in a middle eastern country.

TV ratings would plunge after a "breakaway". There will be no breakaway.

We already have an NFL. We don't need a collegiate NFL.

I think its great the G5 is getting a separate but equal set of top tier bowl games on Fox. That is the last piece they've been missing.

National Championship
P5: Participate in 4 team playoff
G5: Participate in 4 team playoff (if undefeated)

CFP Bowls
P5: Contract Bowl for each league
G5: Contract Bowl for 5 leagues

Other Major Bowls
P5: Capital One, Holiday and Alamo
G5: Ireland, Dubai and Bahamas

Minor Bowls
P5: 18 Junk Bowl Games
G5: 18 Junk Bowl Games

From this standpoint the G5 has a lot more opportunity than in the past to participate in the post season and basically the entire G5 is "tweener" not just the AAC or MWC.

There are better odds for participation at the top out of the P5 but its not impossible to build a national title contender out of the G5 with all the access points.

(06-14-2013 10:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 10:11 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  I don't think Dubai is as stupid as it sounds at first. That is, if it is Dubai that is pushing it and not some idea that originated here.

I don't think a decade or two ago that anyone would have thought that Dubai could host the best golf and horse races in the world either. If they put their mind to something, they have the money to do it right.

If you want to put a OOC game in Dubai, fine. I think a bowl game is about the worst idea I can think of. I think it would suck to have a really good team and have it get shipped off to Dubai where only a handfull of fans can go--and I dont even want to consider the security issues surrounding a bunch of Americans in a stadium in a middle eastern country.

This has a lot more to do with Army and Navy being interested in a game their service members in the middle east can see than what has been discussed up to this point.

The international games on Fox can be January 1st broadcast with a high payout. Invite all of the G5 champions that do not go to an access bowl for a one time exciting locale for the players. With 3 games there is a zero chance of repeat placement.

NIU for example had an Orange Bowl season and let's say this year they win the MAC Championship but don't qualify for the access bowl...a game in Ireland or Dubai vs. Army would be a nice reward and a springboard to an access game the following season.

Boise State may be in one of these games every year though as MWC champion.

Wow, I'll give you guys this... You're creative. Sorry, the G5 isn't going to a playoff system that would rival the P5. If our leaders were this creative/proactive, we wouldn't be in the situation we're facing, come 2014. And as others have already stated, there are a ton of legalities that would have to be ironed out, and that's provided everyone could agree this is the correct path. When was the last time you saw G5 presidents agree on anything proactively?

(06-14-2013 10:44 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  Wow, I'll give you guys this... You're creative. Sorry, the G5 isn't going to a playoff system that would rival the P5. If our leaders were this creative/proactive, we wouldn't be in the situation we're facing, come 2014. And as others have already stated, there are a ton of legalities that would have to be ironed out, and that's provided everyone could agree this is the correct path. When was the last time you saw G5 presidents agree on anything proactively?

I think the attitude is changing in the G5 because in the past it was a situation where leagues like the MWC and/or CUSA thought they had a chance to be "BCS" and considered part of the majors.

The line between the haves and have nots is so wide that no G5 league will ever ascend to become a P5. Maybe individual schools but not an entire league. P5's are pushing back on all sides from playing G5's in bowl games. That is why their forced to work together now in the post season.

(06-14-2013 10:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 10:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 10:11 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  I don't think Dubai is as stupid as it sounds at first. That is, if it is Dubai that is pushing it and not some idea that originated here.

I don't think a decade or two ago that anyone would have thought that Dubai could host the best golf and horse races in the world either. If they put their mind to something, they have the money to do it right.

If you want to put a OOC game in Dubai, fine. I think a bowl game is about the worst idea I can think of. I think it would suck to have a really good team and have it get shipped off to Dubai where only a handfull of fans can go--and I dont even want to consider the security issues surrounding a bunch of Americans in a stadium in a middle eastern country.

This has a lot more to do with Army and Navy being interested in a game their service members in the middle east can see than what has been discussed up to this point.

The international games on Fox can be January 1st broadcast with a high payout. Invite all of the G5 champions that do not go to an access bowl for a one time exciting locale for the players. With 3 games there is a zero chance of repeat placement.

NIU for example had an Orange Bowl season and let's say this year they win the MAC Championship but don't qualify for the access bowl...a game in Ireland or Dubai vs. Army would be a nice reward and a springboard to an access game the following season.

Boise State may be in one of these games every year though as MWC champion.

I'm just not seeing where there's any great value in the G5 champs playing Army. That game has little value here. I'm not seeing how it becomes incredibly valuable property that will drive the G5 to new heights because its in Ireland or Dubai.

If there's a split (which I don't think will happen), then it's game over There's no playoff format or international games that will suddenly make the G5 a media darling. If the G5 are no longer theoretically in the hunt for the national championship of the top level of college football--then interest in G5 will begin a slow decline to FCS levels.

(06-14-2013 11:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 10:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 10:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 10:11 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  I don't think Dubai is as stupid as it sounds at first. That is, if it is Dubai that is pushing it and not some idea that originated here.

I don't think a decade or two ago that anyone would have thought that Dubai could host the best golf and horse races in the world either. If they put their mind to something, they have the money to do it right.

If you want to put a OOC game in Dubai, fine. I think a bowl game is about the worst idea I can think of. I think it would suck to have a really good team and have it get shipped off to Dubai where only a handfull of fans can go--and I dont even want to consider the security issues surrounding a bunch of Americans in a stadium in a middle eastern country.

This has a lot more to do with Army and Navy being interested in a game their service members in the middle east can see than what has been discussed up to this point.

The international games on Fox can be January 1st broadcast with a high payout. Invite all of the G5 champions that do not go to an access bowl for a one time exciting locale for the players. With 3 games there is a zero chance of repeat placement.

NIU for example had an Orange Bowl season and let's say this year they win the MAC Championship but don't qualify for the access bowl...a game in Ireland or Dubai vs. Army would be a nice reward and a springboard to an access game the following season.

Boise State may be in one of these games every year though as MWC champion.

I'm just not seeing where there's any great value in the G5 champs playing Army. That game has little value here. I'm not seeing how it becomes incredibly valuable property that will drive the G5 to new heights because its in Ireland or Dubai.

If there's a split (which I don't think will happen), then it's game over There's no playoff format or international games that will suddenly make the G5 a media darling. If the G5 are no longer theoretically in the hunt for the national championship of the top level of college football--then interest in G5 will begin a slow decline to FCS levels.

One thing definitely in agreement is that support would go down for the G5 if they were not attached at the hip to the P5.

There has never been an FCS program to average 30k on the season and there is a reason for that.

(06-14-2013 11:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If there's a split (which I don't think will happen), then it's game over There's no playoff format or international games that will suddenly make the G5 a media darling. If the G5 are no longer theoretically in the hunt for the national championship of the top level of college football--then interest in G5 will begin a slow decline to FCS levels.

I have to disagree. I don't think that the Power5 are holding up the Group5's popularity. I think they hold it on their own.

As a P5 fan, I'd rather see my team play a weak P5 team in a bowl than a good G5 team. Why? Name recognition. Same thing for OOC schedule...I'd rather PSU schedule Wake Forest or Arizona (a weak P5 team) than Ohio or Nevada (a good G5 team).

I don't think the breakaway happens formally...but it's certainly moving that direction informally. If the G5 wants to be cutting-edge, they need to get their top teams playing each other. When the #1 MAC team beats the #7 Big Ten...or the #1 MWC team beats the #5 Pac-12 team...nobody says "WOW, those G5 schools are better than we thought." Instead, everybody bashes the P5 team for having a "down year."

A bowl pitting #1 MWC vs. #2 MAC and #1 MAC vs. #2 Sun Belt will get ratings...plus it will grab more attention for those conferences (in a separate but equal way).

Breakaway if it happens will be about voting not money unless the last place left to tap money is basketball.

I don't see the foreign bowls, if they happen, generally taking conference champs. Ask USM how they felt about getting shipped off the mainland as champs.

Arkansas State as champions of the Sun Belt will sell enough tickets to Little Rock, Mobile, or New Orleans to make a profit, make the fans happy, and make the bowl happy. Ditto Louisiana or Troy.

Now if your choices in CUSA are send Rice to Boca Raton or Dubai, CUSA doesn't gripe about shipping Rice out. If the Sun Belt is looking to accommodate Idaho then Dublin beats Little Rock, New Orleans, or Mobile.

I'm skeptical of any foreign bowl not being backed by the riches of the UAE being able to pay a team enough to make the trip without losing serious money.

I'm also skeptical of the logistics. The players, coaches, managers, and trainers all have to have a passport that's not a fast process especially if you are hunting down records. Then the issue of who pays.

Pulling off an international game in a short window is a tough proposition.

(06-14-2013 10:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 10:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 10:11 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  I don't think Dubai is as stupid as it sounds at first. That is, if it is Dubai that is pushing it and not some idea that originated here.

I don't think a decade or two ago that anyone would have thought that Dubai could host the best golf and horse races in the world either. If they put their mind to something, they have the money to do it right.

If you want to put a OOC game in Dubai, fine. I think a bowl game is about the worst idea I can think of. I think it would suck to have a really good team and have it get shipped off to Dubai where only a handfull of fans can go--and I dont even want to consider the security issues surrounding a bunch of Americans in a stadium in a middle eastern country.

This has a lot more to do with Army and Navy being interested in a game their service members in the middle east can see than what has been discussed up to this point.

The international games on Fox can be January 1st broadcast with a high payout. Invite all of the G5 champions that do not go to an access bowl for a one time exciting locale for the players. With 3 games there is a zero chance of repeat placement.

NIU for example had an Orange Bowl season and let's say this year they win the MAC Championship but don't qualify for the access bowl...a game in Ireland or Dubai vs. Army would be a nice reward and a springboard to an access game the following season.

Boise State may be in one of these games every year though as MWC champion.

The problem is that Army would have to have a winning season or at least a 6 and 6 season.

(06-15-2013 12:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Now if your choices in CUSA are send Rice to Boca Raton or Dubai, CUSA doesn't gripe about shipping Rice out. If the Sun Belt is looking to accommodate Idaho then Dublin beats Little Rock, New Orleans, or Mobile.

The actual attendance for the last two Rice bowl games (58,880 for the 2008 Texas Bowl versus Western Michigan and 40,754 for the 2012 Armed Forces Bowl against Air Force) does not support your poorly researched and highly offensive comment.

(06-14-2013 09:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 09:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Definitely agree these international games have to be at the top of the selection order for the G5 if they're going to be a success.

Beyond that I think the chances of a breakaway are slim. There are too many issues to sort through. The chances that will see a breakaway by 2020 in advance of the next CFP contract is 25%.

Those international games may very well be the dumbest idea in a long time. Dubai?? Please.

If I have a top G5 team the last thing I want is for my team to be selected for a bowl game in Dubai or Ireland.

As for a break away, I have yet to have anyone explain to me how a break away makes sense for the networks. How does fewer teams and alienating the fan bases of half the college FBS schools make for a better product? How does it enhance advertisers if the audience is smaller or even worse, a vocal portion of the audience is alienated and angry? How does having some states without a single school in the new division help TV? How does having many folks lose access to reasonably close games of major college football help drive the sports popularity and its ratings? How do these factors add up to a net positive for the networks who are footing the bill? Might they actually cause the networks to reduce future contracts?

Currently, the haves of the FBS world get about 90% of the money. The media contracts of the have-nots are about 10% of what the power conferences make. Assuming both are being fairly valued---the G5 isnt "taking" anything from the P-5. The 10% they take is apparantly about the portion of the contract attributable to their presence.

Im just not seeing any big value in a split is coming from either the network point of view or the P-5 point of view. Its interesting you never hear network executives say its a good idea. You never hear the general public of the typical fan screaming thier fervent desire that they MUST have a split NOW!!!! The only place you hear this desire is from a handful of AD's. If these AD's dont want to schedule G5 teams---dont. Nobody forces a single G5 team to appear on a single P-5 schedule. Fact is, theres no real demand for a split. Its simply the one place the AD's see where they might be able to make an extra few buck (emphasis on a few--remember, they already get 90% of the money).

Now, the only place I do see value in a split is in basketball. In basketball, the P-5 do not enjoy the huge 90% share. They get closer to 50%.

Where I do think a split makes sense is if all of FBS splits from the rest of Div-1. That would eliminate 225 FCS and non-football playing schools. Yet, it would leave the breakaway large enough to field a solid 64 team basketball tournament that could create a legitimate national champion and still have a degee of the Cinderella factor. The result would likley be a slightly higher football payout (as football monies going toFCS schools is elimnated) and much larger basketball paydays for the P-5.

I started a pretty long thread with this idea a little while back. I'm glad you are aboard.
http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=635267

(06-15-2013 12:43 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  

(06-14-2013 11:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If there's a split (which I don't think will happen), then it's game over There's no playoff format or international games that will suddenly make the G5 a media darling. If the G5 are no longer theoretically in the hunt for the national championship of the top level of college football--then interest in G5 will begin a slow decline to FCS levels.

I have to disagree. I don't think that the Power5 are holding up the Group5's popularity. I think they hold it on their own.

As a P5 fan, I'd rather see my team play a weak P5 team in a bowl than a good G5 team. Why? Name recognition. Same thing for OOC schedule...I'd rather PSU schedule Wake Forest or Arizona (a weak P5 team) than Ohio or Nevada (a good G5 team).

I don't think the breakaway happens formally...but it's certainly moving that direction informally. If the G5 wants to be cutting-edge, they need to get their top teams playing each other. When the #1 MAC team beats the #7 Big Ten...or the #1 MWC team beats the #5 Pac-12 team...nobody says "WOW, those G5 schools are better than we thought." Instead, everybody bashes the P5 team for having a "down year."

A bowl pitting #1 MWC vs. #2 MAC and #1 MAC vs. #2 Sun Belt will get ratings...plus it will grab more attention for those conferences (in a separate but equal way).

That's only because the P5 fans (and most of the E$PN mouthbreathers) are arrogant. They refuse to believe that a G5 school can be regularly better than any P5 school, even the weak ones. Schools like Indiana, Kansas, and Duke regularly refute that notion.