Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
Author Message
Knightsweat Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,872
Joined: Jan 2011
Reputation: 123
I Root For: OU & UCF
Location:
Post: #41
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 05:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 12:46 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Man, I was with you right until you mentioned the ACC inviting West Virginia.

I actually think that West Virginia will eventually be in the ACC.

I don't see how, at this point.
06-15-2013 05:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
He1nousOne Offline
The One you Love to Hate.
*

Posts: 13,285
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 215
I Root For: Iowa/ASU
Location: Arizona
Post: #42
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 05:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Okay let's play with the scenario. But with these facts. Texas is obligated to ESPN. That means if they move it will be either to the ACC or SEC. Oklahoma is obligated to Comcast. Their most comfortable destination would be the PAC contractually speaking. The only thing they bring to the Big 10 is the renewal of the Nebraska rivalry. And, they are not currently AAU. There are three AAU schools in the current Big 12. Texas, Iowa State, and Kansas. Since the Big 10 likely will not get Texas, and doesn't want to double down in its Iowa footprint, that leaves a very likely Kansas.
The rest of the schools are in play for everyone. How do you parse out 8?

Big 10: Kansas- They are AAU, National Brand in Hoops, and a natural fit.
Iowa State / Connecticut: AAU versus more Eastern exposure?

Note: Delany agrees to take Iowa State to dissolve the Big 12 and with the understanding that he will receive consideration should more expansion come later.

PAC: Texas Tech- State school, natural bridge to the rest of the West.
T.C.U.- Religious affiliation does not affect diversity, DFW
Oklahoma- National brand
Kansas State- Part of the Oklahoma deal.
*Baylor- Could go instead of T.C.U.

SEC: Texas- The SEC is more profitable than the ACC. Texas is the biggest fish left in the pond. If Slive ever wants a shot at North Carolina and Virginia/Virginia Tech then Texas must not go to the ACC. Which is another reason Delany might take Iowa State.

Oklahoma State- Continuity and a new state.

ACC: West Virginia- a bridge around Maryland
Connecticut- basketball power and final piece of the puzzle.


OR

Larry Scott thinks big and offers:

Baylor, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Iowa State to go to 20 and dissolve the GOR all by himself.

Delany and Slive try to make the money too good for the ACC to refuse movement. Both have plans to take 6 each and dissolve the ACC.

The movement of the P5 to the P3 will net each of the 60 teams involved an extra 2 million a year by the elimination of the other playoff spots and bowl alliances. That is an incentive in addition to the networks.

The SEC would go for Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, N.C. State, Clemson and Florida State.

The Big 10 would go for Virginia, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, and Notre Dame but would settle for Boston College for the market.

The moment ESPN tries to talk Texas into the SEC is when The Horns kick their feet up on the table and tip their hat to take a snooze after saying that a 10 team round robin is exactly what they want despite the fact that they are at the bargaining table.
06-15-2013 06:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jml2010 Offline
Banned

Posts: 3,282
Joined: Jan 2011
I Root For: Tx Tech & UNT
Location: Oklahoma
Post: #43
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 05:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 12:47 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  The PAC 12 really didn't want OSU & Texas Tech even when it included getting Texas & OU. No way they take them with Iowa State & Kansas State.
This, with a bullet.

I guess Larry issuing invites to Oklahoma St and Tech( I admit contingent on UT accepting as well) were make believe. Quite a few fans hope OSU and Tech get left behind but the reality is the PAC doesn't have many options if they ever decide to expand.

Texas has 26mm residents and Tech delivers a decent portion of this state. Despite what the naysayers think, Tech and Oklahoma St will be fine if the Big 12 falls apart.
06-15-2013 06:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sactowndog Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,107
Joined: Dec 2010
Reputation: 114
I Root For: Fresno State Texas A&M
Location:
Post: #44
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 01:27 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 01:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 01:20 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The whole point of the dissolution would be that it could facilitate the other four conferences getting to 16 and stopping. Going past 16 with this scenario doesnt help it happen. There are few rare gems in the Big 12 but there are plenty of valuable commodities. Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas all going to the same conference in the Big Ten is just not going to happen.

For this to happen, Texas and Oklahoma would have to agree to maintain their relationship as an OOC one because I just dont see how they stay together unless Missouri is somehow talked to the Big Ten with Kansas, then the Texoma-4 can stay together and go West.

If Oklahoma and Kansas go north then that would free up Texas to also make a move East to the ACC. They could perhaps sign a similar deal as Notre Dame.

I am sure the SEC would try to make sure WVU was with them. While folks might think Kansas State and Oklahoma State are bad for business but both culturally fit, especially OSU. OSU is full of money these days and they are performing better than Oklahoma in terms of living up to their team's potential. I dont see why an OSU/WVU combination is a bad one for the SEC. Four conferences at 16, new rules, expanded national playoff and two great new programs to bring into the conference. I'm sure they might choose some others first but this isn't picking teams for kickball. Those other schools that they would want first probably would rather be somewhere else.
This was my reasoning earlier in the thread. OU/KU to the B1G, WVU to the SEC and UT to ACC/ND. Works pretty well in theory... Massive win for the B1G.

And quite frankly, the PAC is the little man at the table. Whatever option they get out of this will be better than the options they have out west. If they end up with Texas Tech, TCU, Kansas State and Iowa State then they will have gained considerable footprint in the Central Time Zone which they desperately need for TV programming.

My thinking on TCU is that once again, Baylor will attach itself to Texas and go with them out East.

You severely underestimate the academic snobbery of the PAC-12. They aren't taking the second team in any market and certainly not one with the academic profile of K State.
06-15-2013 06:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Knightsweat Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,872
Joined: Jan 2011
Reputation: 123
I Root For: OU & UCF
Location:
Post: #45
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 06:11 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 05:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 12:47 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  The PAC 12 really didn't want OSU & Texas Tech even when it included getting Texas & OU. No way they take them with Iowa State & Kansas State.
This, with a bullet.

I guess Larry issuing invites to Oklahoma St and Tech( I admit contingent on UT accepting as well) were make believe. Quite a few fans hope OSU and Tech get left behind but the reality is the PAC doesn't have many options if they ever decide to expand.

Texas has 26mm residents and Tech delivers a decent portion of this state. Despite what the naysayers think, Tech and Oklahoma St will be fine if the Big 12 falls apart.

Yeah, I agree on the PAC situation, just because of geography. Their only other options are Boise (awful market), and BYU (religious issues for the other PAC schools). I also agree with TTech and OSU staying in the club, but I still don't think it's in the PAC12, not unless they (PAC12) become desperate to get to 16.
06-15-2013 06:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jml2010 Offline
Banned

Posts: 3,282
Joined: Jan 2011
I Root For: Tx Tech & UNT
Location: Oklahoma
Post: #46
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 06:14 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:11 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 05:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 12:47 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  The PAC 12 really didn't want OSU & Texas Tech even when it included getting Texas & OU. No way they take them with Iowa State & Kansas State.
This, with a bullet.

I guess Larry issuing invites to Oklahoma St and Tech( I admit contingent on UT accepting as well) were make believe. Quite a few fans hope OSU and Tech get left behind but the reality is the PAC doesn't have many options if they ever decide to expand.

Texas has 26mm residents and Tech delivers a decent portion of this state. Despite what the naysayers think, Tech and Oklahoma St will be fine if the Big 12 falls apart.

Yeah, I agree on the PAC situation, just because of geography. Their only other options are Boise (awful market), and BYU (religious issues for the other PAC schools). I also agree with TTech and OSU staying in the club, but I still don't think it's in the PAC12, not unless they (PAC12) become desperate to get to 16.

As a Tech grad, I don't see any other BCS conference options for us. We don't fit in with the SEC or Big 10 and the ACC is worse than the Big 12. For Tech, it's the Big 12 or the PAC 12.
06-15-2013 06:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Knightsweat Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,872
Joined: Jan 2011
Reputation: 123
I Root For: OU & UCF
Location:
Post: #47
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 06:26 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:14 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:11 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 05:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 12:47 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  The PAC 12 really didn't want OSU & Texas Tech even when it included getting Texas & OU. No way they take them with Iowa State & Kansas State.
This, with a bullet.

I guess Larry issuing invites to Oklahoma St and Tech( I admit contingent on UT accepting as well) were make believe. Quite a few fans hope OSU and Tech get left behind but the reality is the PAC doesn't have many options if they ever decide to expand.

Texas has 26mm residents and Tech delivers a decent portion of this state. Despite what the naysayers think, Tech and Oklahoma St will be fine if the Big 12 falls apart.

Yeah, I agree on the PAC situation, just because of geography. Their only other options are Boise (awful market), and BYU (religious issues for the other PAC schools). I also agree with TTech and OSU staying in the club, but I still don't think it's in the PAC12, not unless they (PAC12) become desperate to get to 16.

As a Tech grad, I don't see any other BCS conference options for us. We don't fit in with the SEC or Big 10 and the ACC is worse than the Big 12. For Tech, it's the Big 12 or the PAC 12.

Yeah, sometimes I forget how far west Lubbock is. Geographically it makes more sense than OSU, but hey, I've been wrong before. Ask 10th Mountain, he'll say i'm wrong all the time.
06-15-2013 06:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sactowndog Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,107
Joined: Dec 2010
Reputation: 114
I Root For: Fresno State Texas A&M
Location:
Post: #48
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 03:27 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 02:51 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 01:56 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 01:46 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  What everyone is ignoring is the fact that all current B12 members like the conference the way it is. The B12 has 10 schools of like mind associated together, round robin play in every sport every year, and a great TV package. Nobody is going anywhere for the foreseeable future...
We're posting from the perspective of what could happen after the plug is pulled on the life support system—GOR. I also like the fact that all B12 schools play each other, but the problem is with the LHN that almost killed the conference once before.
The LHN didn't almost kill the conference. Although A&M fans like to say that it did, even though they could have benefited from the LHN as well. But they chose not to participate, fled to the SEC, and have tried to lay all the blame on Texas since. But A&M had been eyeing the SEC since the SWC broke up. Arkansas, a former rival, was finding success in the SEC. A&M felt overshadowed by Texas, and the only way they felt they could escape that shadow was in another conference, especially if that conference was the most powerful conference in college football. They weren't confident enough in their ability to escape that shadow by themselves. They needed some big help for that...

Nebraksa left the conference because their big rivalry with Oklahoma was destroyed in the divisional setup created when the Big 8 expanded with 4 former SWC members to form the Big XII (OU and OSU were put in the south with the 4 Texas schools). Nebraska also felt the conference had become too Texas-centric, since OU's main interests now coincided with Texas. The Huskers drop off in football coincided with the formation of the B12 as well. After 3 appearances in the first 4 B12 Championship games (Huskers went 2-1), they didn't win another conference championship game and only made 3 appearances in the next 11 years. So they felt their fortunes would be better served in the B1G...

Colorado left because they had become an afterthought in the B12, and most of their alums went west to find work. So they had more affinity with the Pacific coast schools than they did with B12 schools...

Mizzou thought the B12 was in danger of collapse. So they were looking for a lifeline. They thought the B1G was going to be their savior, but Nebraska took that slot from them. Then the SEC swept in at the last minute, selecting Mizzou over WVU for #14, after they decided to expand with A&M...

The Texoma 4 were flirting with the Pac, and might have joined. But TV bailed out the conference, and ESPiN gave Texas a $300 million boost in the form on the LHN. That ruled Texas out of the Pac12 picture. OU inquired about Pac membership, but were turned down. IMO that was a huge mistake by the Pac12, since it would most likely have gotten them Texas as well in the long run. But it's too late now. The B12 added TCU and WVU and signed the GoR, giving the TV networks a guarantee of long term stability for the conference...

Very true.... I never understood why the PAC was originally interested in OU and OSU (along with TX and TT), but turned both schools down later. Texas could have still probably salvaged the B12, but I have to agree with you that TX would have joined the PAC 12 if OU and OSU were accepted.

It's academics. They would "hold their nose" at OU and especially OSU's academics to get Texas. No way in hell would they invite OSU without Texas as they proved.

What I find the most interesting is no "bat's an eye" at the travel when talking about the Pac-12 taking Midwest schools but everyone screams about the distance if the conversation turns to the Big-12 taking Fresno St. and SDSU. Why is that as you could easily split east west?

The market potential of California for the Big 12 is enormous. CA has 38 Million people covered by 4 teams each of which are grouped in a very narrow geographic and demographic. Huge sections of the state's population is a 3 hour drive or more away from a BCS team like the San Diego Area (a 3 our drive "with traffic" to USC/UCLA) or the San Joaquin Valley (a 3 hour drive in either direction to a Pac-12 school).

Not to mention the Pac-12 schools represent the liberal elite in LA and SF (despised by most CA Republicans). In addition the UC System is the much smaller system in CA. The 500,00 person CSU system (faculty and current enrollees) has no BCS representative courtesy of the UC system.

So between SF/LA and the rest of the state, liberal versus conservatives, geographic proximity, and UC versus CSU, if the Big 12 entered into California with SDSU and Fresno (two of the most politically conservative areas heavily ag and military) they would (conservatively) instantly pick up at least 40% of the state. That is 15.2M new fans, which is more than the entire combined population of West Virginia, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa and Oklahoma (13.4M).

It is a huge market potential the Big 12 is completely ignoring.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2013 07:01 PM by Sactowndog.)
06-15-2013 06:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Lurker Above Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,317
Joined: Apr 2011
Reputation: 159
I Root For: UGA
Location:
Post: #49
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 05:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 12:47 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  The PAC 12 really didn't want OSU & Texas Tech even when it included getting Texas & OU. No way they take them with Iowa State & Kansas State.
This, with a bullet.

That was then, this is now. The pac has limited options. A 20 year alliance deal with the big would be huge for the pac. Getting texas, ou, michigan, ohio state, nebraska, penn state and the rest of the big every other year would bring enourmous revenue to the pac network. If osu, ksu, and tt could go to a conference with those revenue opportunities then the big brothers would have an easier exit.
06-15-2013 08:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
10thMountain Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,358
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation: 357
I Root For: A&M, TCU
Location:
Post: #50
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 06:29 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:26 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:14 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:11 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 05:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  This, with a bullet.

I guess Larry issuing invites to Oklahoma St and Tech( I admit contingent on UT accepting as well) were make believe. Quite a few fans hope OSU and Tech get left behind but the reality is the PAC doesn't have many options if they ever decide to expand.

Texas has 26mm residents and Tech delivers a decent portion of this state. Despite what the naysayers think, Tech and Oklahoma St will be fine if the Big 12 falls apart.

Yeah, I agree on the PAC situation, just because of geography. Their only other options are Boise (awful market), and BYU (religious issues for the other PAC schools). I also agree with TTech and OSU staying in the club, but I still don't think it's in the PAC12, not unless they (PAC12) become desperate to get to 16.

As a Tech grad, I don't see any other BCS conference options for us. We don't fit in with the SEC or Big 10 and the ACC is worse than the Big 12. For Tech, it's the Big 12 or the PAC 12.

Yeah, sometimes I forget how far west Lubbock is. Geographically it makes more sense than OSU, but hey, I've been wrong before. Ask 10th Mountain, he'll say i'm wrong all the time.

You're not always right but on this we both agree (And JML too, how rare is that?)

I've said all along the move that makes the most sense if the Big 12 falters is UT/TT/OU/OSU to the PAC.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2013 09:07 PM by 10thMountain.)
06-15-2013 09:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Pony94 Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 25,682
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation: 1184
I Root For: SMU
Location: Bee Cave, TX
Post: #51
A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 09:01 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:29 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:26 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:14 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:11 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  I guess Larry issuing invites to Oklahoma St and Tech( I admit contingent on UT accepting as well) were make believe. Quite a few fans hope OSU and Tech get left behind but the reality is the PAC doesn't have many options if they ever decide to expand.

Texas has 26mm residents and Tech delivers a decent portion of this state. Despite what the naysayers think, Tech and Oklahoma St will be fine if the Big 12 falls apart.

Yeah, I agree on the PAC situation, just because of geography. Their only other options are Boise (awful market), and BYU (religious issues for the other PAC schools). I also agree with TTech and OSU staying in the club, but I still don't think it's in the PAC12, not unless they (PAC12) become desperate to get to 16.

As a Tech grad, I don't see any other BCS conference options for us. We don't fit in with the SEC or Big 10 and the ACC is worse than the Big 12. For Tech, it's the Big 12 or the PAC 12.

Yeah, sometimes I forget how far west Lubbock is. Geographically it makes more sense than OSU, but hey, I've been wrong before. Ask 10th Mountain, he'll say i'm wrong all the time.

You're not always right but on this we both agree (And JML too, how rare is that?)

I've said all along the move that makes the most sense if the Big 12 falters is UT/TT/OU/OSU to the PAC.

JML lover
06-15-2013 09:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 25,850
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 986
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #52
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
You've got to think like a pirate.

Let's say you are the folks in Bristol.

You've got the Pac-12 through 2024, SEC primary through 2024 and secondary through 2033, Big XII through 2025, ACC through 2027, but you only have the Big 10 through 2016.

The Big 10 is in a partnership with Fox through 2032.

If you are ESPN what worries you? That Big 10 renewal.

What can you bring to the table (besides tractor-trailer loads of cash) to make sure you aren't shut out of what is clearly a top property?

Well, for starters the Big XII has given you a grant of rights. The members signed their rights through the contract term to the league who has essentially assigned the top tier rights to you with second tier to Fox and in the case of Texas you hold the rights to at least one football game per year to be run on Longhorn. The ACC has also given you a grant of rights. You've got 100% rights to 14 schools, the primary rights to 10 schools and third tier on one of that ten. You also hold a whopping long contract with the SEC who doesn't even have an exit fee, another 14 schools.

The Big 10 likes AAU members, your list includes Duke (100%), Georgia Tech (100%), Iowa State (top tier), Florida (100%), Kansas (top tier), Missouri (100%), North Carolina (100%), Texas (top tier and 3rd tier), Virginia (100%), Vanderbilt (100%).

If you are ESPN you make expansion from the list of schools in the Big XII and ACC very difficult for the Big 10 or you can make it very easy.

ESPN would probably most want Texas to go because with the third tier deal they can either keep LHN to the Big 10 and Fox's chagrin or do an equity deal making LHN a BTN affiliated channel giving Fox equity in LHN in exchange for equity in BTN.

If Big 10 wants someone off the ACC list, ESPN can clean the mess up easily. Agree to pay the ACC the same as they have contracted that means no damages under the GOR for breaching. With the Big XII it gets stickier. Fox has to agree to keep the Big XII payment the same or reduce it a small amount so a Big XII can afford to defect. For Fox it is a real problem. They agree to make it easy for a Big XII to move they are losing inventory for Fox Sports but BTN becomes more valuable.

I would expect that if ESPN were to do something like this their preference would be for Big XII teams to be the new Big 10 teams. Bring two teams over as part of the new TV deal and ESPN is keeping basically the same rights as they had, if an ACC moves over they go from 100% to giving up the low tier games.
06-15-2013 09:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUmustangs Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,186
Joined: Jul 2004
Reputation: 71
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #53
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 05:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Okay let's play with the scenario. But with these facts. Texas is obligated to ESPN. That means if they move it will be either to the ACC or SEC. Oklahoma is obligated to Comcast. Their most comfortable destination would be the PAC contractually speaking. The only thing they bring to the Big 10 is the renewal of the Nebraska rivalry. And, they are not currently AAU. There are three AAU schools in the current Big 12. Texas, Iowa State, and Kansas. Since the Big 10 likely will not get Texas, and doesn't want to double down in its Iowa footprint, that leaves a very likely Kansas.
The rest of the schools are in play for everyone. How do you parse out 8?

Big 10: Kansas- They are AAU, National Brand in Hoops, and a natural fit.
Iowa State / Connecticut: AAU versus more Eastern exposure?

Note: Delany agrees to take Iowa State to dissolve the Big 12 and with the understanding that he will receive consideration should more expansion come later.

PAC: Texas Tech- State school, natural bridge to the rest of the West.
T.C.U.- Religious affiliation does not affect diversity, DFW
Oklahoma- National brand
Kansas State- Part of the Oklahoma deal.
*Baylor- Could go instead of T.C.U.

SEC: Texas- The SEC is more profitable than the ACC. Texas is the biggest fish left in the pond. If Slive ever wants a shot at North Carolina and Virginia/Virginia Tech then Texas must not go to the ACC. Which is another reason Delany might take Iowa State.

Oklahoma State- Continuity and a new state.

ACC: West Virginia- a bridge around Maryland
Connecticut- basketball power and final piece of the puzzle.


OR

Larry Scott thinks big and offers:

Baylor, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Iowa State to go to 20 and dissolve the GOR all by himself.

Delany and Slive try to make the money too good for the ACC to refuse movement. Both have plans to take 6 each and dissolve the ACC.

The movement of the P5 to the P3 will net each of the 60 teams involved an extra 2 million a year by the elimination of the other playoff spots and bowl alliances. That is an incentive in addition to the networks.

The SEC would go for Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, N.C. State, Clemson and Florida State.

The Big 10 would go for Virginia, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, and Notre Dame but would settle for Boston College for the market.

Why is it so hard for you SEC guys to understand that Texas will not be joining the SEC. The reasons being ..... the perceived SEC culture, and right or wrong... SEC academics. Texas likes to be the top dog in their conference and most certainly they will not follow little brother A&M anywhere.

I guess if you lived in Texas you might understand this.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2013 11:21 PM by SMUmustangs.)
06-15-2013 11:17 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
esayem Offline
Hark The Sound!
*

Posts: 16,562
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 1243
I Root For: Olde Ironclad
Location: Tobacco Road
Post: #54
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
I think the playoff will go to 8 schools and 5 auto-bids. Oklahoma and Texas aren't dumb enough to leave and give up their heavy handed auto-bid.
06-15-2013 11:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUmustangs Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,186
Joined: Jul 2004
Reputation: 71
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #55
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 06:56 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 03:27 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 02:51 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 01:56 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 01:46 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  What everyone is ignoring is the fact that all current B12 members like the conference the way it is. The B12 has 10 schools of like mind associated together, round robin play in every sport every year, and a great TV package. Nobody is going anywhere for the foreseeable future...
We're posting from the perspective of what could happen after the plug is pulled on the life support system—GOR. I also like the fact that all B12 schools play each other, but the problem is with the LHN that almost killed the conference once before.
The LHN didn't almost kill the conference. Although A&M fans like to say that it did, even though they could have benefited from the LHN as well. But they chose not to participate, fled to the SEC, and have tried to lay all the blame on Texas since. But A&M had been eyeing the SEC since the SWC broke up. Arkansas, a former rival, was finding success in the SEC. A&M felt overshadowed by Texas, and the only way they felt they could escape that shadow was in another conference, especially if that conference was the most powerful conference in college football. They weren't confident enough in their ability to escape that shadow by themselves. They needed some big help for that...

Nebraksa left the conference because their big rivalry with Oklahoma was destroyed in the divisional setup created when the Big 8 expanded with 4 former SWC members to form the Big XII (OU and OSU were put in the south with the 4 Texas schools). Nebraska also felt the conference had become too Texas-centric, since OU's main interests now coincided with Texas. The Huskers drop off in football coincided with the formation of the B12 as well. After 3 appearances in the first 4 B12 Championship games (Huskers went 2-1), they didn't win another conference championship game and only made 3 appearances in the next 11 years. So they felt their fortunes would be better served in the B1G...

Colorado left because they had become an afterthought in the B12, and most of their alums went west to find work. So they had more affinity with the Pacific coast schools than they did with B12 schools...

Mizzou thought the B12 was in danger of collapse. So they were looking for a lifeline. They thought the B1G was going to be their savior, but Nebraska took that slot from them. Then the SEC swept in at the last minute, selecting Mizzou over WVU for #14, after they decided to expand with A&M...

The Texoma 4 were flirting with the Pac, and might have joined. But TV bailed out the conference, and ESPiN gave Texas a $300 million boost in the form on the LHN. That ruled Texas out of the Pac12 picture. OU inquired about Pac membership, but were turned down. IMO that was a huge mistake by the Pac12, since it would most likely have gotten them Texas as well in the long run. But it's too late now. The B12 added TCU and WVU and signed the GoR, giving the TV networks a guarantee of long term stability for the conference...

Very true.... I never understood why the PAC was originally interested in OU and OSU (along with TX and TT), but turned both schools down later. Texas could have still probably salvaged the B12, but I have to agree with you that TX would have joined the PAC 12 if OU and OSU were accepted.

It's academics. They would "hold their nose" at OU and especially OSU's academics to get Texas. No way in hell would they invite OSU without Texas as they proved.

What I find the most interesting is no "bat's an eye" at the travel when talking about the Pac-12 taking Midwest schools but everyone screams about the distance if the conversation turns to the Big-12 taking Fresno St. and SDSU. Why is that as you could easily split east west?

The market potential of California for the Big 12 is enormous. CA has 38 Million people covered by 4 teams each of which are grouped in a very narrow geographic and demographic. Huge sections of the state's population is a 3 hour drive or more away from a BCS team like the San Diego Area (a 3 our drive "with traffic" to USC/UCLA) or the San Joaquin Valley (a 3 hour drive in either direction to a Pac-12 school).

Not to mention the Pac-12 schools represent the liberal elite in LA and SF (despised by most CA Republicans). In addition the UC System is the much smaller system in CA. The 500,00 person CSU system (faculty and current enrollees) has no BCS representative courtesy of the UC system.

So between SF/LA and the rest of the state, liberal versus conservatives, geographic proximity, and UC versus CSU, if the Big 12 entered into California with SDSU and Fresno (two of the most politically conservative areas heavily ag and military) they would (conservatively) instantly pick up at least 40% of the state. That is 15.2M new fans, which is more than the entire combined population of West Virginia, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa and Oklahoma (13.4M).

It is a huge market potential the Big 12 is completely ignoring.

If SDSU and Fresno would improve their athletic programs to an comparable level as the Big12 teams, you might have an argument. However, conferences like the Big12 are not in the business of charity. So SDSU and Fresno have no chance.
06-15-2013 11:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 38,198
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 7916
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #56
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 11:17 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 05:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Okay let's play with the scenario. But with these facts. Texas is obligated to ESPN. That means if they move it will be either to the ACC or SEC. Oklahoma is obligated to Comcast. Their most comfortable destination would be the PAC contractually speaking. The only thing they bring to the Big 10 is the renewal of the Nebraska rivalry. And, they are not currently AAU. There are three AAU schools in the current Big 12. Texas, Iowa State, and Kansas. Since the Big 10 likely will not get Texas, and doesn't want to double down in its Iowa footprint, that leaves a very likely Kansas.
The rest of the schools are in play for everyone. How do you parse out 8?

Big 10: Kansas- They are AAU, National Brand in Hoops, and a natural fit.
Iowa State / Connecticut: AAU versus more Eastern exposure?

Note: Delany agrees to take Iowa State to dissolve the Big 12 and with the understanding that he will receive consideration should more expansion come later.

PAC: Texas Tech- State school, natural bridge to the rest of the West.
T.C.U.- Religious affiliation does not affect diversity, DFW
Oklahoma- National brand
Kansas State- Part of the Oklahoma deal.
*Baylor- Could go instead of T.C.U.

SEC: Texas- The SEC is more profitable than the ACC. Texas is the biggest fish left in the pond. If Slive ever wants a shot at North Carolina and Virginia/Virginia Tech then Texas must not go to the ACC. Which is another reason Delany might take Iowa State.

Oklahoma State- Continuity and a new state.

ACC: West Virginia- a bridge around Maryland
Connecticut- basketball power and final piece of the puzzle.


OR

Larry Scott thinks big and offers:

Baylor, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Iowa State to go to 20 and dissolve the GOR all by himself.

Delany and Slive try to make the money too good for the ACC to refuse movement. Both have plans to take 6 each and dissolve the ACC.

The movement of the P5 to the P3 will net each of the 60 teams involved an extra 2 million a year by the elimination of the other playoff spots and bowl alliances. That is an incentive in addition to the networks.

The SEC would go for Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, N.C. State, Clemson and Florida State.

The Big 10 would go for Virginia, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, and Notre Dame but would settle for Boston College for the market.

Why is it so hard for you SEC guys to understand that Texas will not be joining the SEC. The reasons being ..... the perceived SEC culture, and right or wrong... SEC academics. Texas likes to be the top dog in their conference and most certainly they will not follow little brother A&M anywhere.

I guess if you lived in Texas you might understand this.

In the end the Longhorns will stick with ESPN and they will go where they can earn the most. Only the money will matter.
06-16-2013 12:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Native Georgian Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 27,595
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 1039
I Root For: TULANE+GA.STATE
Location: Decatur GA
Post: #57
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-15-2013 06:11 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 05:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 12:47 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  The PAC 12 really didn't want OSU & Texas Tech even when it included getting Texas & OU. No way they take them with Iowa State & Kansas State.
This, with a bullet.

I guess Larry issuing invites to Oklahoma St and Tech( I admit contingent on UT accepting as well) were make believe. Quite a few fans hope OSU and Tech get left behind but the reality is the PAC doesn't have many options if they ever decide to expand.

Texas has 26mm residents and Tech delivers a decent portion of this state. Despite what the naysayers think, Tech and Oklahoma St will be fine if the Big 12 falls apart.
No it wasn't make-believe. But yes it was, as you correctly state, contingent on UT coming along, too. No Bevo? No deal.

I don't hope TT and OSU get "left behind" and I don't think they will. I actually think the Big <12 is a much more stable structure than widely realized, and will be around for a long, long time, with all 10 of its current members.

My point is simply that the Pac-12 will not take new members that it doesn't really want (and yes, that includes both Texas Tech and Oklahoma State), unless they get 1 or 2 new members that it Does really want, too (like Texas and, to a lesser extent, Oklahoma or Kansas). If, in the end, that strategy compels the Pac-12 to stay at 12, well then they will stay at 12.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2013 12:30 AM by Native Georgian.)
06-16-2013 12:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jml2010 Offline
Banned

Posts: 3,282
Joined: Jan 2011
I Root For: Tx Tech & UNT
Location: Oklahoma
Post: #58
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-16-2013 12:29 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 06:11 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 05:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(06-15-2013 12:47 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  The PAC 12 really didn't want OSU & Texas Tech even when it included getting Texas & OU. No way they take them with Iowa State & Kansas State.
This, with a bullet.

I guess Larry issuing invites to Oklahoma St and Tech( I admit contingent on UT accepting as well) were make believe. Quite a few fans hope OSU and Tech get left behind but the reality is the PAC doesn't have many options if they ever decide to expand.

Texas has 26mm residents and Tech delivers a decent portion of this state. Despite what the naysayers think, Tech and Oklahoma St will be fine if the Big 12 falls apart.
No it wasn't make-believe. But yes it was, as you correctly state, contingent on UT coming along, too. No Bevo? No deal.

I don't hope TT and OSU get "left behind" and I don't think they will. I actually think the Big <12 is a much more stable structure than widely realized, and will be around for a long, long time, with all 10 of its current members.

My point is simply that the Pac-12 will not take new members that it doesn't really want (and yes, that includes both Texas Tech and Oklahoma State), unless they get 1 or 2 new members that it Does really want, too (like Texas and, to a lesser extent, Oklahoma or Kansas). If, in the end, that strategy compels the Pac-12 to stay at 12, well then they will stay at 12.

Kansas is an afterthought and Utah took their spot. The Big 10 might take them but don't forget they offered bribe money from CU and NU exit money to keep UT and OU around.
06-16-2013 01:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 25,850
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 986
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #59
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-16-2013 12:04 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the end the Longhorns will stick with ESPN and they will go where they can earn the most. Only the money will matter.

No they won't without massive changes in UT leadership.

When Colorado and Nebraska bailed, Texas could have gone to the SEC instead they talked to two leagues they deemed peers. The Pac-10 and Big 10. The Big 10 wouldn't be a refugee camp and TAMU wasn't going to "tag along" to the Pac-10. That's when Texas started cooperating with the save the Big XII crowd.

When Arkansas left TAMU was willing to go to the SEC. Texas talked to the Big 10 and Pac-10.

TAMU fits the SEC culturally and is an academic leader. Texas doesn't fit and they see the SEC as beneath them.
06-16-2013 03:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 38,198
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 7916
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #60
RE: A Realistic Scenario of How the Big 12 Could Die By Dissolution.
(06-16-2013 03:00 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-16-2013 12:04 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the end the Longhorns will stick with ESPN and they will go where they can earn the most. Only the money will matter.

No they won't without massive changes in UT leadership.

When Colorado and Nebraska bailed, Texas could have gone to the SEC instead they talked to two leagues they deemed peers. The Pac-10 and Big 10. The Big 10 wouldn't be a refugee camp and TAMU wasn't going to "tag along" to the Pac-10. That's when Texas started cooperating with the save the Big XII crowd.

When Arkansas left TAMU was willing to go to the SEC. Texas talked to the Big 10 and Pac-10.

TAMU fits the SEC culturally and is an academic leader. Texas doesn't fit and they see the SEC as beneath them.

Well, that change in leadership is coming. Texas can certainly go where ever they choose. And, I'm not saying that the SEC wants them per se. What I am saying is that after over 40 years negotiating with everything from small business to corporations to non-profits I can tell you that for the last 30 of those years 1 factor has dominated in decision making.....cash. I doubt there is going to be sudden redirection of that standard in Austin or anywhere else. Now I would welcome a return to the principles of old, but I just don't see that as likely.

All of these schools that have made moves have done so for two reasons primarily money and/or fear. The ethos today is reactionary more than it is visionary. The only vision behind realignment has been one of more money and the form of it all is falling into only one vision and that is one in which there will eventually be an ease of structure for a playoff system to drive a broad commercial interest throughout the process. That is why the networks are providing the cash catalyst for change. They picked the time in which to accomplish this because it is a time of paradigm shift from private/state/federal funding into a model in which corporate grants will be a much larger part of university funding. Therefore, college presidents and their boards are looking for new revenue streams and television had its perfect opportunity to make the moves that facilitate the changes that will also profit them.

Into that mix comes the LHN. That money held the top athletic property in the camp of ESPN. If ESPN was willing to spend that money to keep Texas around they sure as heck aren't going to let them drift into the hands of FOX and Comcast. That leaves two choices for the Horns. The first would be to move to the ACC and help to cement the football credentials for that conference. The second is the SEC.

The Big 12 is tenuous because of the limited market exposure for that top property which would be more valuable to the holder of television rights in any of the other 4 conferences (but it just so happens that the top rights holder in this case would make more if they chose the ACC or SEC), and because they don't have the peers you claim they are looking for either academically, or financially in the Big 12. And the Big 12 is vulnerable long term because none of the rest of the teams can keep pace with any of the rest of the conferences without some kind of third tier enhancements (Oklahoma and Kansas excepted).

Perhaps ESPN will want the Horns in the ACC, but they would make a lot more money off of the Texas brand in the SEC. In the end what Slive wants, what Dodds wants, and what we want won't make a difference. It will be about what makes the payer of the contracts more money. I don't doubt that your view of what Texas wants is accurate. I do doubt that it will make any difference in the outcome.

When the Big 10 touts the CIC as a motivator to get a school to move people say they are moving for academics. That's hooey. They are moving to enhance their opportunities for grant money. Missouri is in the SEC for enhanced security (fear) and enhanced revenue (money). A&M will make more money in the SEC. Colorado and Utah will make more money in the PAC. Say what you will about Nebraska and Penn State but they both make more money in the Big 10. So show me one move in that last 20 years that has been made for cultural fit. Even N.D.'s moves have been motivated out of fear (loss of independence) and money (they make more with their own television deal for football).

So I'll consider other arguments when the reasons for them are other than fear and money.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2013 10:15 AM by JRsec.)
06-16-2013 10:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.