Small sample size. Can't take one year and make much out of it that's going to be projectable for years to come.
We're talking about being perennially relevant, and for that, you need to take into account for a number of years of data.
Yes you can. The MAC's membership isn't changing. CUSA's membership is changing and the added members (CUSA 3.0) have lower overall numbers than the departing members (CUSA 2.0). Your own charts show that.
Check that. My own charts reflect 5 years of data... enough to show a trend and establish a pretty good idea of their status compared against other conferences.
And don't pretend that you don't know that just because NIU and Kent had a remarkable 2012, that that means you should expect the MAC to repeat that performance for the next ten years... or even five... or even three... heck, or even one.
Before NIU and Kent; there was Ball State which had a really good season before their coach stabbed them in the back. Before Ball State there was Marshall. So the MAC actually has a history of getting teams that go on runs. To the best of my memory CUSA didn't typcially have that type of history. Tulane had a good run one season, but other than that Louisville, Houston and TCU were the only other teams in CUSA that put together anything that even looked like those type of seasons. But then again the years are beginning to melt together for me.
(06-17-2013 04:12 PM)NBPirate Wrote: There will be no alliances but if there were it would be AAC/MWC and CUSA/Sun Belt/MAC
Banowsky (CUSA 2.0) and Thompson (MWC) talked seriously enough about an alliance that they made it public... and then made a trip to New York to pitch it to Marinatto (Big East), who, unfortunately, stiffed them by being in Colorado Springs, CO to talk to AFA about becoming a Big East member, and on his way to Boise, ID.
There are no absolutes anymore. Marinatto's having actually persuaded Kustra (BSU pres) to join Big East made that clear. WVU in the Big 12, same thing. Rather, there are now degrees of likelihood, but practically nothing is off the table. If it makes sense... and especially financially, of course... it's going to get consideration. It might take some time for initial resistance to subside and objections to be defeated. But good ideas will, eventually, rise to the top and get implemented.
Yeah... pardon me for thinking it and... worse... for being brash enough to say it... but I think this Great 8 and Great 12 thing is one of those good ideas.
It just needs some time to seep in and to take root. Sports fans as a group are naturally reluctant and conservative. But they're also inclined to eventually agree with the people who do the numbers and statistics.
(06-17-2013 03:39 PM)_sturt_ Wrote: We agree that alliances with other conferences would be more advantageous for CUSA's purposes... but you have to start with the question, "Why would they do that?"
The reason the PAC would do some minor peripheral arrangement with the MWC is simply a matter of travel costs. There aren't as many schools in the west, so it meets a need.
There is nothing CUSA has to offer MWC or AAC or SEC or anyone else.
The reason MAC and CUSA would collaborate?
I come back to this...
And again... as I said earlier...
Quote:I'm trying to look at this with as little subjectivity as a Marshall fan can bring to the topic... the Excel spreadsheet was constructed using what seemed to be rational criteria without attempting to prescribe any particular end-game. And what we find is this:
75.9 = AAC schools' average Sagarin ranking 2008-2012
90.4 = MWC schools' average Sagarin ranking 2008-2012
87.3 = Great 8 schools' (top 4 of MAC + top 4 of CUSA) average Sagarin ranking 2008-2012
15.5 = AAC average ranking in comparison to all other Go5 schools
25.0 = MWC average ranking in comparison to all other Go5 schools
19.5 = Great 8 (top 4 of MAC + top 4 of CUSA) average ranking in comparison to all other Go5 schools
So, the numbers... not me... suggest that the G8 would be right there with AAC and MWC in any given year.
What's more, compare the G8 with what otherwise would be the case if status quo remains...
75.9 = AAC schools' average Sagarin ranking 2008-2012
90.4 = MWC schools' average Sagarin ranking 2008-2012
113.3 = MAC schools' average Sagarin ranking 2008-2012 (25% below MWC)
118.7 = CUSA schools' average Sagarin ranking 2008-2012 (31% below MWC)
15.5 = AAC average ranking in comparison to all other Go5 schools
25.0 = MWC average ranking in comparison to all other Go5 schools
35.3 = MAC average ranking in comparison to all other Go5 schools (40% below MWC)
38.2 = CUSA average ranking in comparison to all other Go5 schools (52% below MWC)
[size=10pt]
It's is the same reason that regional petroleum companies with whom some MAC and CUSA fans would be familiar... Ashland Oil and Marathon Oil... eventually saw it was smarter to work together, take advantage of economies of scale, reduce replication of effort, and challenge the Exxons and BPs of the world than to continue to be marginalized.
MAC and CUSA are essentially in the same boat, like it or not. Sooner they see the reality of the situation, the sooner they can ensure they don't get marginalized.
As it stands now, AAC and MWC are positioned to dominate, and there's no reasonable strategy out there that we haven't all been trying to do already ("recruit better!" "coach better!" "train harder in the off-season!")... it's laughable sometimes how simplistic we talk about these things, as-if "hey... schedule more power conference games?... *smacks palm to forehead*... why didn't we think of that before?!?"
Alliance with AAC? MWC? SEC? I'd be all for it. But you have to tell me why they'd do it. I don't see any incentive.
MAC and CUSA, though, have a common cause and a reason to cooperate.
I thought you just wanted to provide a link to the old realignment board in case anyone was interested in your gibberish.
(06-17-2013 05:50 PM)WinOrLoseEAGLE Wrote: I thought you just wanted to provide a link to the old realignment board in case anyone was interested in your gibberish.
You're right.
Hey guys... WinOrLose is right... you should continue commenting here, and I'll just ignore you until you comment on the other board... okay?
(06-17-2013 04:12 PM)NBPirate Wrote: There will be no alliances but if there were it would be AAC/MWC and CUSA/Sun Belt/MAC
Banowsky (CUSA 2.0) and Thompson (MWC) talked seriously enough about an alliance that they made it public... and then made a trip to New York to pitch it to Marinatto (Big East), who, unfortunately, stiffed them by being in Colorado Springs, CO to talk to AFA about becoming a Big East member, and on his way to Boise, ID.
There are no absolutes anymore. Marinatto's having actually persuaded Kustra (BSU pres) to join Big East made that clear. WVU in the Big 12, same thing. Rather, there are now degrees of likelihood, but practically nothing is off the table. If it makes sense... and especially financially, of course... it's going to get consideration. It might take some time for initial resistance to subside and objections to be defeated. But good ideas will, eventually, rise to the top and get implemented.
Yeah... pardon me for thinking it and... worse... for being brash enough to say it... but I think this Great 8 and Great 12 thing is one of those good ideas.
It just needs some time to seep in and to take root. Sports fans as a group are naturally reluctant and conservative. But they're also inclined to eventually agree with the people who do the numbers and statistics.
Seems to me the Go5 may as well be one conference anyway. Yeah there's a little more history of success in the MWC, and a few AAC teams, but nobody outside of Go5 fans is going to know there's much difference between Western Kentucky, Central Michigan, East Carolina, Southern Miss and South Alabama. At least CUSA and the Belt and half of the AAC are in prime football territory. They should just take all the Go5 teams and re distribute them according to geography and rivals. Everyone would be better off for it. We are all in the same boat, so why piss on the SB or AAC? It's us against the cartel of the auto conferences. Root for each other to beat those guys rather than brag about being the biggest midget.
(06-17-2013 09:26 PM)monarx Wrote: Seems to me the Go5 may as well be one conference anyway. Yeah there's a little more history of success in the MWC, and a few AAC teams, but nobody outside of Go5 fans is going to know there's much difference between Western Kentucky, Central Michigan, East Carolina, Southern Miss and South Alabama. At least CUSA and the Belt and half of the AAC are in prime football territory. They should just take all the Go5 teams and re distribute them according to geography and rivals. Everyone would be better off for it. We are all in the same boat, so why piss on the SB or AAC? It's us against the cartel of the auto conferences. Root for each other to beat those guys rather than brag about being the biggest midget.
(06-17-2013 04:12 PM)NBPirate Wrote: There will be no alliances but if there were it would be AAC/MWC and CUSA/Sun Belt/MAC
Why, that would be as silly as dumping some of our conference mates so that we can join and compete with some of the same conference mates, for the opportunity to face our previous conference mates in post-season bowl games.
A MAC-CUSA alliance might work for a school like Marshall or MTSU or perhaps to the rest of the conference but not to UTEP. It would be a nightmare for us and UTEP is better off playing MWC schools + BYU in OOC games (NMSU is a given every year anyway) instead of playing MAC schools (I don't have anything against them but geographically doesn't makes any sense for both parties).
Dallas, thanks for that perspective. But I think as you wade through the explanation and see the regular season football and basketball expectations, you'll see that the actual travel to MAC schools would be very limited and do-able.
![[Image: 200x200px-ZC-78caf574_1-50-Cent-Laugh-Off.gif]](http://cdn.niketalk.com/7/78/200x200px-ZC-78caf574_1-50-Cent-Laugh-Off.gif)
![[Image: 8626778532_7763553ce5_z.jpg]](http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8542/8626778532_7763553ce5_z.jpg)
![[Image: yeah_right_whatever_funny_t_shirts_gifts...nr_400.jpg]](http://rlv.zcache.com/yeah_right_whatever_funny_t_shirts_gifts_postcard-p239901935933992622baanr_400.jpg)
Why, that would be as silly as dumping some of our conference mates so that we can join and compete with some of the same conference mates, for the opportunity to face our previous conference mates in post-season bowl games. 
