(06-23-2013 08:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:03 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Why do AAC fans insist that the other eastern G5 conferences will happily send their champions to play AAC also rans?

The rumor Ive heard is that the Sunbelt champ is playing an AAC team in New Orleans. If true (and I think that's very possible), what champ is the MAC going to play?

I think it's more likely that the MAC and Sun Belt champs play, either in Mobile or in Little Rock, and the New Orleans bowl has an AAC also-ran vs an SBC also-ran. (I still have the AAC champ ticketed for the Military Bowl vs a low ACC pick.)

Quote:If the Sunbelt signs on to play the AAC, the MAC champ could easily get stuck playing also-rans. May as well be our also rans. The fact is, theres 5 G5 conferences. Two already have P-5 #1 bowl opponents. Theres only 3 champs left. Somebody could easily end up the odd man out.

If the MAC doesn't get the Sun Belt champ, they're in a world of hurt. I just don't see why the Sun Belt would send their champ to play a G5 also-ran instead of the MAC champ.

Maybe I do--because New Orleans is a better bowl, better destination. I suppose you could put the MAC vs SBC game in New Orleans, but the MAC doesn't travel at all, and does anyone want three MAC vs SBC games? (New Orleans, Little Rock, Mobile)

This...your looking at it from the conferences point of view instead of the bowls point of view. The bowls invite conferences, not the other way around.

(06-23-2013 08:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:03 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Why do AAC fans insist that the other eastern G5 conferences will happily send their champions to play AAC also rans?

The rumor Ive heard is that the Sunbelt champ is playing an AAC team in New Orleans. If true (and I think that's very possible), what champ is the MAC going to play?

I think it's more likely that the MAC and Sun Belt champs play, either in Mobile or in Little Rock, and the New Orleans bowl has an AAC also-ran vs an SBC also-ran. (I still have the AAC champ ticketed for the Military Bowl vs a low ACC pick.)

Quote:If the Sunbelt signs on to play the AAC, the MAC champ could easily get stuck playing also-rans. May as well be our also rans. The fact is, theres 5 G5 conferences. Two already have P-5 #1 bowl opponents. Theres only 3 champs left. Somebody could easily end up the odd man out.

If the MAC doesn't get the Sun Belt champ, they're in a world of hurt. I just don't see why the Sun Belt would send their champ to play a G5 also-ran instead of the MAC champ.

Maybe I do--because New Orleans is a better bowl, better destination. I suppose you could put the MAC vs SBC game in New Orleans, but the MAC doesn't travel at all, and does anyone want three MAC vs SBC games? (New Orleans, Little Rock, Mobile)

This...your looking at it from the conferences point of view instead of the bowls point of view. The bowls invite conferences, not the other way around.

That's starting to change--I thought the New Orleans Bowl and the Sun Belt leadership overlapped.

The conferences also have control over who they send--I figure the SBC tells the New Orleans Bowl that the Sun Belt champ is going to play the MAC champ somewhere, and if the NOB doesn't want the MAC champ then the NOB gets the Sun Belt #2.

Unless you figure that New Orleans draws some MAC fans, I'd rather have SBC #2 vs CUSA/AAC #3-4-5 than SBC #1 vs MAC #1.

(06-23-2013 09:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:03 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Why do AAC fans insist that the other eastern G5 conferences will happily send their champions to play AAC also rans?

The rumor Ive heard is that the Sunbelt champ is playing an AAC team in New Orleans. If true (and I think that's very possible), what champ is the MAC going to play?

I think it's more likely that the MAC and Sun Belt champs play, either in Mobile or in Little Rock, and the New Orleans bowl has an AAC also-ran vs an SBC also-ran. (I still have the AAC champ ticketed for the Military Bowl vs a low ACC pick.)

Quote:If the Sunbelt signs on to play the AAC, the MAC champ could easily get stuck playing also-rans. May as well be our also rans. The fact is, theres 5 G5 conferences. Two already have P-5 #1 bowl opponents. Theres only 3 champs left. Somebody could easily end up the odd man out.

If the MAC doesn't get the Sun Belt champ, they're in a world of hurt. I just don't see why the Sun Belt would send their champ to play a G5 also-ran instead of the MAC champ.

Maybe I do--because New Orleans is a better bowl, better destination. I suppose you could put the MAC vs SBC game in New Orleans, but the MAC doesn't travel at all, and does anyone want three MAC vs SBC games? (New Orleans, Little Rock, Mobile)

This...your looking at it from the conferences point of view instead of the bowls point of view. The bowls invite conferences, not the other way around.

That's starting to change--I thought the New Orleans Bowl and the Sun Belt leadership overlapped.

The conferences also have control over who they send--I figure the SBC tells the New Orleans Bowl that the Sun Belt champ is going to play the MAC champ somewhere, and if the NOB doesn't want the MAC champ then the NOB gets the Sun Belt #2.

Unless you figure that New Orleans draws some MAC fans, I'd rather have SBC #2 vs CUSA/AAC #3-4-5 than SBC #1 vs MAC #1.

The New Orleans Bowl has the lowest payout of any bowl. My guess is that if the Sun Belt is not offering thier champ in NO, they probably dont get any AAC tie in at all. The word is CUSA wasn't willing to do what the New Orleans Bowl wanted, so unless the Sun Belt wants 3 bowls vs the MAC, they will probably have to offer up thier champ. Its not like the MAC can walk away from the Sunbelt if they dont get the SB champ---the MAC doesnt have alot of other options--the AAC does.

Besides, the Sunbelt champ vs Houston/SMU/Tulsa/Tulane/UCF/USF is probably going to be a far better attended game than it would be with a MAC opponent.

(06-24-2013 12:16 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 09:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The rumor Ive heard is that the Sunbelt champ is playing an AAC team in New Orleans. If true (and I think that's very possible), what champ is the MAC going to play?

I think it's more likely that the MAC and Sun Belt champs play, either in Mobile or in Little Rock, and the New Orleans bowl has an AAC also-ran vs an SBC also-ran. (I still have the AAC champ ticketed for the Military Bowl vs a low ACC pick.)

Quote:If the Sunbelt signs on to play the AAC, the MAC champ could easily get stuck playing also-rans. May as well be our also rans. The fact is, theres 5 G5 conferences. Two already have P-5 #1 bowl opponents. Theres only 3 champs left. Somebody could easily end up the odd man out.

If the MAC doesn't get the Sun Belt champ, they're in a world of hurt. I just don't see why the Sun Belt would send their champ to play a G5 also-ran instead of the MAC champ.

Maybe I do--because New Orleans is a better bowl, better destination. I suppose you could put the MAC vs SBC game in New Orleans, but the MAC doesn't travel at all, and does anyone want three MAC vs SBC games? (New Orleans, Little Rock, Mobile)

This...your looking at it from the conferences point of view instead of the bowls point of view. The bowls invite conferences, not the other way around.

That's starting to change--I thought the New Orleans Bowl and the Sun Belt leadership overlapped.

The conferences also have control over who they send--I figure the SBC tells the New Orleans Bowl that the Sun Belt champ is going to play the MAC champ somewhere, and if the NOB doesn't want the MAC champ then the NOB gets the Sun Belt #2.

Unless you figure that New Orleans draws some MAC fans, I'd rather have SBC #2 vs CUSA/AAC #3-4-5 than SBC #1 vs MAC #1.

The New Orleans Bowl has the lowest payout of any bowl. My guess is that if the Sun Belt is not offering thier champ in NO, they probably dont get any AAC tie in at all. The word is CUSA wasn't willing to do what the New Orleans Bowl wanted, so unless the Sun Belt wants 3 bowls vs the MAC, they will probably have to offer up thier champ. Its not like the MAC can walk away from the Sunbelt if they dont get the SB champ---the MAC doesnt have alot of other options--the AAC does.

Besides, the Sunbelt champ vs Houston/SMU/Tulsa/Tulane/UCF/USF is probably going to be a far better attended game than it would be with a MAC opponent.

The answer seems obvious if the MAC doesn't travel as was speculated, however would it bring better media ratings?

(06-24-2013 06:08 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(06-24-2013 12:16 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 09:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I think it's more likely that the MAC and Sun Belt champs play, either in Mobile or in Little Rock, and the New Orleans bowl has an AAC also-ran vs an SBC also-ran. (I still have the AAC champ ticketed for the Military Bowl vs a low ACC pick.)


If the MAC doesn't get the Sun Belt champ, they're in a world of hurt. I just don't see why the Sun Belt would send their champ to play a G5 also-ran instead of the MAC champ.

Maybe I do--because New Orleans is a better bowl, better destination. I suppose you could put the MAC vs SBC game in New Orleans, but the MAC doesn't travel at all, and does anyone want three MAC vs SBC games? (New Orleans, Little Rock, Mobile)

This...your looking at it from the conferences point of view instead of the bowls point of view. The bowls invite conferences, not the other way around.

That's starting to change--I thought the New Orleans Bowl and the Sun Belt leadership overlapped.

The conferences also have control over who they send--I figure the SBC tells the New Orleans Bowl that the Sun Belt champ is going to play the MAC champ somewhere, and if the NOB doesn't want the MAC champ then the NOB gets the Sun Belt #2.

Unless you figure that New Orleans draws some MAC fans, I'd rather have SBC #2 vs CUSA/AAC #3-4-5 than SBC #1 vs MAC #1.

The New Orleans Bowl has the lowest payout of any bowl. My guess is that if the Sun Belt is not offering thier champ in NO, they probably dont get any AAC tie in at all. The word is CUSA wasn't willing to do what the New Orleans Bowl wanted, so unless the Sun Belt wants 3 bowls vs the MAC, they will probably have to offer up thier champ. Its not like the MAC can walk away from the Sunbelt if they dont get the SB champ---the MAC doesnt have alot of other options--the AAC does.

Besides, the Sunbelt champ vs Houston/SMU/Tulsa/Tulane/UCF/USF is probably going to be a far better attended game than it would be with a MAC opponent.

The answer seems obvious if the MAC doesn't travel as was speculated, however would it bring better media ratings?

Probably not. A lot of MAC games are either not televised at all or are exclusive ESPN-3 broadcasts. In contrast, every home AAC football game will be televised and 60 of thier 66 home football games wil be broadcast on national tv via ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU. So whatever AAC team the Sunbelt champ meets in New Orleans will be well known and will have been on national television likely 6-10 times over the course of that season. That exposure would likely increase name recognition and that name recognition would likely help the New Orleans Bowl in the ratings. That name recognition will increase every season that the AAC teams enjoy that kind of exposure. That can only help the NO Bowl.

Let me correct a few issues.

#1. The New Orleans Bowl has a small payout on paper but it has the smallest required ticket purchase requirement of any bowl. Louisiana deposited more spendable cash going to the New Orleans Bowl than Arkansas State did going to the GoDaddy despite the New Orleans Bowl payout being less. Never forget that the bulk of payouts are in the form of tickets and Riddel, your employees, and aircraft charter companies won't accept payment in tickets. If Arkansas State had gone to New Orleans rather than GoDaddy and had the same ticket sales, Arkansas State would have cleared more money because of how the finances are structured and because as hard as it is to believe, New Orleans the week before Christmas features cheaper hotels than Mobile the week of the bowl.

2. Geography matters but so does fan base interest. Last year sales were down for Arkansas State even though Kent was ranked and the year before NIU was not. The year before was the first bowl in a few years for ASU. Built up demand was an issue. General rule of thumb among the bowls is you will sell tickets equal to 1/2 of your season ticket base. If you are less than 8 hours away that number will be higher, further away, it will be lower. Two years ago ASU took 200% of its fan base to Mobile, last year it was about 150%. Second year in the same city with the work and school issues, the only surprise is the decrease was as small as it was.

3. Time and date matter. The GoDaddy Bowl for example has a built-in date problem playing late on Sunday. Many people find it easier to take off work on a Friday than a Monday. Playing in GoDaddy means missing work on Monday. Worse still that Monday just happens to be the first day back in school from the Christmas break at most places so parents have to weigh whether they want to pull their kids from a day of school. Detroit has historically fallen on the day after Christmas. For most people that means travel on Christmas Day. That's why a Memphis sportswriter dubbed it the "Divorce Bowl". Tell your wife the family is going to be on the road on Christmas Day headed to Detroit.

4. The AAC interest. Little Rock would love to have the AAC. Memphis, Tulsa, and SMU are all easy drives. Houston and Tulane aren't bad drives. New Orleans wants them for similar reasons. It's not AAC prestige driving the interest, it is the fact that bowl organizers understand who has the best chance of selling tickets.

5. Bowl assignments. The G5 seem to be moving away from "the champ goes here" bowl assignments. The reason is simple. When FAU and FIU won the Sun Belt, New Orleans really didn't want either of them. When Arkansas State won the Sun Belt the last two years, New Orleans took Louisiana because the Cajuns were going to sell more tickets than Arkansas State even though ASU was likely to have strong sales. Odds are there will be a pick order among the bowls with each league but automatically assuming the champ will be the first pick will be incorrect.

A perfect example of the factors falling in place, Ole Miss really wanted to go to the Liberty because it is so close but they took a huge crowd to Birmingham. Part of the reason was pent-up demand. Part of it was geography. Most of the Ole Miss fan base lives within about 3 1/2 hours of Birmingham. Part of it was Ole Miss fans could take off work on Friday, go to the game on Saturday and with the day-time start be back home Saturday evening if they wanted or drive back easily on Sunday. No school time missed.

At the other extreme you had the Military Bowl in DC. The game was on a Thursday. That meant a minimum of three days off work for many people. San Jose State with a small fan base was 2,800 miles away. Bowling Green was just shy of 8 hours away and BGSU doesn't have a huge fan base. The game kicked off during work hours, minimizing potential local fan support. It is no surprise that the game didn't draw well.

(06-24-2013 09:10 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-24-2013 06:08 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(06-24-2013 12:16 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 09:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-23-2013 08:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This...your looking at it from the conferences point of view instead of the bowls point of view. The bowls invite conferences, not the other way around.

That's starting to change--I thought the New Orleans Bowl and the Sun Belt leadership overlapped.

The conferences also have control over who they send--I figure the SBC tells the New Orleans Bowl that the Sun Belt champ is going to play the MAC champ somewhere, and if the NOB doesn't want the MAC champ then the NOB gets the Sun Belt #2.

Unless you figure that New Orleans draws some MAC fans, I'd rather have SBC #2 vs CUSA/AAC #3-4-5 than SBC #1 vs MAC #1.

The New Orleans Bowl has the lowest payout of any bowl. My guess is that if the Sun Belt is not offering thier champ in NO, they probably dont get any AAC tie in at all. The word is CUSA wasn't willing to do what the New Orleans Bowl wanted, so unless the Sun Belt wants 3 bowls vs the MAC, they will probably have to offer up thier champ. Its not like the MAC can walk away from the Sunbelt if they dont get the SB champ---the MAC doesnt have alot of other options--the AAC does.

Besides, the Sunbelt champ vs Houston/SMU/Tulsa/Tulane/UCF/USF is probably going to be a far better attended game than it would be with a MAC opponent.

The answer seems obvious if the MAC doesn't travel as was speculated, however would it bring better media ratings?

Probably not. A lot of MAC games are either not televised at all or are exclusive ESPN-3 broadcasts. In contrast, every home AAC football game will be televised and 60 of thier 66 home football games wil be broadcast on national tv via ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU. So whatever AAC team the Sunbelt champ meets in New Orleans will be well known and will have been on national television likely 6-10 times over the course of that season. That exposure would likely increase name recognition and that name recognition would likely help the New Orleans Bowl in the ratings. That name recognition will increase every season that the AAC teams enjoy that kind of exposure. That can only help the NO Bowl.

Pretty much any MAC team in a bowl will have played on ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU multiple times. Not every game, but 2 or 3 at least, with others on ESPN3.

Though there's probably more name recognition in general for the AAC schools, particularly in that part of the country.

(06-20-2013 06:15 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  But it got me thinking--why bother with the bowl committees or bowl cities at all? What if two conferences cut a deal, say CUSA and the MAC, to match their last bowl-eligible teams in an on-campus game. Even-numbered years in the CUSA stadium, odd-numbered years in the MAC stadium. The two conferences run the "bowl" jointly.

I wish college football would work like this (and it would result in getting rid of the bowl games and replacing them with something else):

1) 10 regular season games.

2) Conference championship games on Thanksgiving weekend.

3) The Wednesday after Thanksgiving weekend, 16 teams are picked for the playoffs and all other teams are put into groups of three by rank (best 3 remaining teams in the top group, next 3 in the next group, etc). Schools in the same conference or schools that played each other in the current year would not be placed in the same group.

4) In December, each team in the groups of three play each other round robin. Each team gets one home and one road game. These games replace the bowl games.

5) The playoffs are played in January.

I call the games in 4) "ladder games".

Under this system, you end up with teams 1-16 determined by the playoff and the rest of the teams ranked by ladder games.

The ladder games:

1) would help determine conference rankings.

2) would be good, entertaining games to watch because all the games would be between teams that were evenly matched.

3) would give every team a special end of year game for recruiting and fundraising and whatever.

4) would give every team at least 12 games and still give us a playoff without playoff teams playing too many games (15 max).

5) would give conference mates a month of cheering for each other in games against other conferences.

I think the above would be much better than what we have now.

If college football did the above, it would "own" Thanksgiving weekend, the Wednesday after Thanksgiving and January (for the playoffs).