(07-09-2013 04:20 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  This article really explains why you are not going to see Wichita State in the Big East....

“There are a small number of athletic conferences that are built around the notion of a shared reputational standard, academically,” she said. “Really, it comes down to the Ivy League, the Big Ten and a very small number of conferences like the Big East. The historic assumption is that when the presidents of those universities gather to consider expansion, they gather and consider the academic trajectory and reputation of the institution.”

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130707/NE.../707079960

Despite your dreams otherwise the Big East is not the Big 10 or the Ivy League. Heck even the Ivy League understood they could be an athletic power or an academic one. The Big East can be a basketball power or the eastern equivalent of the WCC. They will be hard pressed to be both.

Interesting OT: Jet915 on the Big East site noted that ESPN's ratings pooped the bed in second quarter.

(07-09-2013 10:02 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 04:20 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  This article really explains why you are not going to see Wichita State in the Big East....

“There are a small number of athletic conferences that are built around the notion of a shared reputational standard, academically,” she said. “Really, it comes down to the Ivy League, the Big Ten and a very small number of conferences like the Big East. The historic assumption is that when the presidents of those universities gather to consider expansion, they gather and consider the academic trajectory and reputation of the institution.”

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130707/NE.../707079960

Despite your dreams otherwise the Big East is not the Big 10 or the Ivy League. Heck even the Ivy League understood they could be an athletic power or an academic one. The Big East can be a basketball power or the eastern equivalent of the WCC. They will be hard pressed to be both.

Let me guess, if we add Wichita we will be a bball power and if we don't we're just an eastern WCC?

(07-10-2013 12:38 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 10:02 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 04:20 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  This article really explains why you are not going to see Wichita State in the Big East....

“There are a small number of athletic conferences that are built around the notion of a shared reputational standard, academically,” she said. “Really, it comes down to the Ivy League, the Big Ten and a very small number of conferences like the Big East. The historic assumption is that when the presidents of those universities gather to consider expansion, they gather and consider the academic trajectory and reputation of the institution.”

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130707/NE.../707079960

Despite your dreams otherwise the Big East is not the Big 10 or the Ivy League. Heck even the Ivy League understood they could be an athletic power or an academic one. The Big East can be a basketball power or the eastern equivalent of the WCC. They will be hard pressed to be both.

Let me guess, if we add Wichita we will be a bball power and if we don't we're just an eastern WCC?

I am not that myopic but the same reasoning that would keep out Wichita State keeps out VCU. If they really want to go private small college it will be St Louis and Richmond. Neither bring the basketball cred of VCU and Wichita State.

Other than basketball, the only men's sport where the Big East will have a full complement of teams is soccer; ALL the schools sponsor it. Providence, Marquette and DePaul do not have baseball. I don't know of any other conference who sponsors both sports where that is the case: more men's soccer than baseball. I find it interesting.

The BE also sponsors men's lacrosse and will probably take Richmond as a replacement for Rutgers next year.

(07-10-2013 02:45 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Other than basketball, the only men's sport where the Big East will have a full complement of teams is soccer; ALL the schools sponsor it. Providence, Marquette and DePaul do not have baseball. I don't know of any other conference who sponsors both sports where that is the case: more men's soccer than baseball. I find it interesting.

It's the Title IX offsets for football that keeps men's soccer so spotty in FBS conferences ~ for the non-FB schools, balanced men & women's soccer works well. Plus non-FB schools need three men's team sports. Add the weather problem for northern baseball, the need for a baseball field, and the early strength of soccer in the Northeast, it may not be so surprising.

Quote:The BE also sponsors men's lacrosse and will probably take Richmond as a replacement for Rutgers next year.

Rutgers doesn't go to the Big Ten until 2014/2015. In Spring 2015, Denver has already agreed to take Rutger's place.

(07-10-2013 03:14 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 02:45 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Other than basketball, the only men's sport where the Big East will have a full complement of teams is soccer; ALL the schools sponsor it. Providence, Marquette and DePaul do not have baseball. I don't know of any other conference who sponsors both sports where that is the case: more men's soccer than baseball. I find it interesting.

It's the Title IX offsets for football that keeps men's soccer so spotty in FBS conferences ~ for the non-FB schools, balanced men & women's soccer works well. Plus non-FB schools need three men's team sports. Add the weather problem for northern baseball, the need for a baseball field, and the early strength of soccer in the Northeast, it may not be so surprising.

Quote:The BE also sponsors men's lacrosse and will probably take Richmond as a replacement for Rutgers next year.

Rutgers doesn't go to the Big Ten until 2014/2015. In Spring 2015, Denver has already agreed to take Rutger's place.

Denver is coming in 2014, which means they will be a conference foe of Rutgers for one year.

http://www.denverpioneers.com/ViewArticl...M_ID=18600

In any case, it would make sense for Richmond to join the BE for lacrosse in 2015.

(07-10-2013 01:49 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 12:38 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 10:02 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 04:20 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  This article really explains why you are not going to see Wichita State in the Big East....

“There are a small number of athletic conferences that are built around the notion of a shared reputational standard, academically,” she said. “Really, it comes down to the Ivy League, the Big Ten and a very small number of conferences like the Big East. The historic assumption is that when the presidents of those universities gather to consider expansion, they gather and consider the academic trajectory and reputation of the institution.”

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130707/NE.../707079960

Despite your dreams otherwise the Big East is not the Big 10 or the Ivy League. Heck even the Ivy League understood they could be an athletic power or an academic one. The Big East can be a basketball power or the eastern equivalent of the WCC. They will be hard pressed to be both.

Let me guess, if we add Wichita we will be a bball power and if we don't we're just an eastern WCC?

I am not that myopic but the same reasoning that would keep out Wichita State keeps out VCU. If they really want to go private small college it will be St Louis and Richmond. Neither bring the basketball cred of VCU and Wichita State.

Cred? You mean like how SLU beat VCU three times last season and won the A-10 reg season and tourny championships?

(07-10-2013 09:30 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 01:49 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 12:38 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 10:02 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 04:20 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  This article really explains why you are not going to see Wichita State in the Big East....

“There are a small number of athletic conferences that are built around the notion of a shared reputational standard, academically,” she said. “Really, it comes down to the Ivy League, the Big Ten and a very small number of conferences like the Big East. The historic assumption is that when the presidents of those universities gather to consider expansion, they gather and consider the academic trajectory and reputation of the institution.”

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130707/NE.../707079960

Despite your dreams otherwise the Big East is not the Big 10 or the Ivy League. Heck even the Ivy League understood they could be an athletic power or an academic one. The Big East can be a basketball power or the eastern equivalent of the WCC. They will be hard pressed to be both.

Let me guess, if we add Wichita we will be a bball power and if we don't we're just an eastern WCC?

I am not that myopic but the same reasoning that would keep out Wichita State keeps out VCU. If they really want to go private small college it will be St Louis and Richmond. Neither bring the basketball cred of VCU and Wichita State.

Cred? You mean like how SLU beat VCU three times last season and won the A-10 reg season and tourny championships?

Most people don't follow the A-10 Tourney. It's getting into the final four that matters.

(07-09-2013 10:02 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 04:20 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  This article really explains why you are not going to see Wichita State in the Big East....

“There are a small number of athletic conferences that are built around the notion of a shared reputational standard, academically,” she said. “Really, it comes down to the Ivy League, the Big Ten and a very small number of conferences like the Big East. The historic assumption is that when the presidents of those universities gather to consider expansion, they gather and consider the academic trajectory and reputation of the institution.”

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130707/NE.../707079960

Despite your dreams otherwise the Big East is not the Big 10 or the Ivy League. Heck even the Ivy League understood they could be an athletic power or an academic one. The Big East can be a basketball power or the eastern equivalent of the WCC. They will be hard pressed to be both.

They should stay as much alike as possible to keep the conference stable long term. They've got 9 Catholic schools, 1 non-religious private. 8 don't play football, 1 plays FCS non-scholarship and 1 plays FCS scholarship. They've got 5 western and 5 eastern schools.

Dayton should be #11 (western Catholic non-scholarship FCS fb). Richmond should be #12 (eastern private FCS scholarship fb) unless they find a strong basketball commitment from a Boston area private school (Northeastern?-Boston U and Holy Cross are in the Patriot League so not likely). Detroit, St. Louis, Cleveland and Boston are the only major Midwest and northeast markets they aren't in. They are in New York, Washington, Philadelphia, Chicago, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Providence and Omaha.

(07-09-2013 07:37 PM)LouPower Wrote:  The great Rick Majerus coached as many games as you did in 2012-13. SLU won the A-10 both ways. The history lesson is also irrelevant, because there aren't any players or coaches left from pre-Majerus. Attendance poor? Look at the numbers in Chaifetz the last couple years. Crews has actually pulled in higher-rated recruits than Majerus did (not that I give a damn about recruiting ratings). There are a lot of teams in a far worse situation than SLU right now, and some of them are Big East members.

I will guarantee you this: Saint Louis will not be a doormat in any league, period. The skepticism is valid, although misplaced. If you're saying that SLU is in a worse position than any Big East team, I can confidently say you're wrong.

They will be an A-10 doormat soon enough. The SLU roster has nothing in the freshman or soph classes. In the prior 15 years before coaching SLU last year, Crews had one, 20 win season and 1 NCAA tourney bid. 15 years, 1 bid. Ouch. He has a reputation of being a good coach and a poor recruiter. Once you become a doormat in the A-10, it will be tough to turn it around. That will leave the program having to rebuild from scratch in 3 or 4 years when Crews gets canned.

Look, I understand why they hired Crews. Unfortunately, they were stuck in a no win position. Most AD's would have done the same thing. However, it really would have helped the program if SLU would have found a young, dynamic recruiter to keep the ball rolling, instead of a good guy who drive the program into the dirt over the next 3-4 years.

(07-10-2013 10:51 AM)MU88 Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 07:37 PM)LouPower Wrote:  The great Rick Majerus coached as many games as you did in 2012-13. SLU won the A-10 both ways. The history lesson is also irrelevant, because there aren't any players or coaches left from pre-Majerus. Attendance poor? Look at the numbers in Chaifetz the last couple years. Crews has actually pulled in higher-rated recruits than Majerus did (not that I give a damn about recruiting ratings). There are a lot of teams in a far worse situation than SLU right now, and some of them are Big East members.

I will guarantee you this: Saint Louis will not be a doormat in any league, period. The skepticism is valid, although misplaced. If you're saying that SLU is in a worse position than any Big East team, I can confidently say you're wrong.

They will be an A-10 doormat soon enough. The SLU roster has nothing in the freshman or soph classes. In the prior 15 years before coaching SLU last year, Crews had one, 20 win season and 1 NCAA tourney bid. 15 years, 1 bid. Ouch. He has a reputation of being a good coach and a poor recruiter. Once you become a doormat in the A-10, it will be tough to turn it around. That will leave the program having to rebuild from scratch in 3 or 4 years when Crews gets canned.

Look, I understand why they hired Crews. Unfortunately, they were stuck in a no win position. Most AD's would have done the same thing. However, it really would have helped the program if SLU would have found a young, dynamic recruiter to keep the ball rolling, instead of a good guy who drive the program into the dirt over the next 3-4 years.

Until Jim Crews fails at SLU, I'm not betting he will. So what, he failed at Army? Nobody's done well there since Bobby Knight. Crews has also been better at Evansville than his replacements. His prior 15 years are about as relevant as my coaching record. He's not in those situations, he's in this one. The commits right now are as good as what the great Rick Majerus pulled in. No one is Rick on the sidelines, and everyone gets that. He's already pulled a transfer for the Sophomore class and there's still a scholarship open. Saint Louis has less chance of being at the bottom of their league than Marquette has in theirs.

Neither team will be a doormat.

The new Big East will likely expand in the future. Given the geographic gap between the existing and new schools, there are a number of possibilities.

Most Realistic:
Saint Louis University - huge new market in state of Missouri and city of St Louis; also provides travel partners to more western schools (Creighton, DePaul, Marquette). SLU plays great basketball, and is similar to the profile of BEast schools.

Duquesne - similar profile to other BEast schools; bridges the gap between eastern and western schools; large new market in city of Pittsburgh. Downside is lesser basketball, yet that could improve over time and with BEast membership.

Other realistic, yet more remote possibilities:
Dayton - fits BEast profile, but practically overlaps Xaviers market in city of Cincinnati
Virginia Commonwealth - VCU doesn't exactly fit BEast profile, but great basketball team large market of Richmond VA
Wichita State - similar to BEast profile; excellent basketball; could act as travel parnter for Creigton and/or SLU

(07-10-2013 05:59 PM)JukeBoxxHero Wrote:  The new Big East will likely expand in the future. Given the geographic gap between the existing and new schools, there are a number of possibilities.

Most Realistic:
Saint Louis University - huge new market in state of Missouri and city of St Louis; also provides travel partners to more western schools (Creighton, DePaul, Marquette). SLU plays great basketball, and is similar to the profile of BEast schools.

[b]Duquesne - similar profile to other BEast schools; bridges the gap between eastern and western schools; large new market in city of Pittsburgh. Downside is lesser basketball, yet that could improve over time and with BEast membership.[/b]

Other realistic, yet more remote possibilities:
Dayton - fits BEast profile, but practically overlaps Xaviers market in city of Cincinnati
Virginia Commonwealth - VCU doesn't exactly fit BEast profile, but great basketball team large market of Richmond VA
Wichita State - similar to BEast profile; excellent basketball; could act as travel parnter for Creigton and/or SLU

This is not even close to being realistic. The Dookies are not Big East material. The only actual options are SLU, Dayton, Richmond and VCU. Thats it.

(07-10-2013 05:59 PM)JukeBoxxHero Wrote:  Dayton - fits BEast profile, but practically overlaps Xaviers market in city of Cincinnati

Are you sure that Dayton has a substantial part of the Cincinnati market versus the Bearcats and X?

I know that Dayton is a modest bit closer to Cincinnati than to Columbus, but Cincinnati has not been growing rapidly over the past thirty years while Columbus has more than doubled in size in the same time, so it seems like there will be a lot more people who grew up in or around Dayton living in Columbus than in Cincinnati.

In any event, that's one of the things that Fox Sports will have researched before they tell the Big East what their preferences would be.