The MAC continues to review its options regarding how to balance the conference given its current 13 school configuration (drop UMass vs. adding a 14th school), and Army faces the same scheduling problem as Notre Dame, i.e, how to fill its schedule in the middle of conference play and how to arrange suitable bowls. Army hasnmultiole open dates, for instance, this year during the heart of conference play. One mutually beneficial solution would be for Army and the MAC to make a scheduling alliance like Notre Dame's deal with the ACC in Football.

For instance, if the MAC split its divisions with 7 in the east (Umass, Buffalo, Kent, Akron, Ohio, Bowling Green and Miami) and 6 in the West, Army could play 4 games against the East that would count as conference games. Eastern division schools could play 2 interdivision games (2x7=14) plus 4 games against Army, and Western Division schools could play 3 interdivision games (3x6=18). Army could play 2 games against Western Division school that did not count as conference games. The MAC could add Army to its bowl rotation, presumably with an extra bowl.

This arrangement would benefit both the MAC and Army.

(07-05-2013 09:08 PM)orangefan Wrote:  The MAC continues to review its options regarding how to balance the conference given its current 13 school configuration (drop UMass vs. adding a 14th school), and Army faces the same scheduling problem as Notre Dame, i.e, how to fill its schedule in the middle of conference play and how to arrange suitable bowls. Army hasnmultiole open dates, for instance, this year during the heart of conference play. One mutually beneficial solution would be for Army and the MAC to make a scheduling alliance like Notre Dame's deal with the ACC in Football.

For instance, if the MAC split its divisions with 7 in the east (Umass, Buffalo, Kent, Akron, Ohio, Bowling Green and Miami) and 6 in the West, Army could play 4 games against the East that would count as conference games. Eastern division schools could play 2 interdivision games (2x7=14) plus 4 games against Army, and Western Division schools could play 3 interdivision games (3x6=18). Army could play 2 games against Western Division school that did not count as conference games. The MAC could add Army to its bowl rotation, presumably with an extra bowl.

This arrangement would benefit both the MAC and Army.

There is no official scheduling agreement, but Army already plays 4-5 MAC teams every year for the past 15+ years. The MAC would probably be fine signing something official though. Share bowls (MAC backup when Army not eligible, share TV (CBS Sports), etc...

(07-05-2013 10:12 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 09:08 PM)orangefan Wrote:  The MAC continues to review its options regarding how to balance the conference given its current 13 school configuration (drop UMass vs. adding a 14th school), and Army faces the same scheduling problem as Notre Dame, i.e, how to fill its schedule in the middle of conference play and how to arrange suitable bowls. Army hasnmultiole open dates, for instance, this year during the heart of conference play. One mutually beneficial solution would be for Army and the MAC to make a scheduling alliance like Notre Dame's deal with the ACC in Football.

For instance, if the MAC split its divisions with 7 in the east (Umass, Buffalo, Kent, Akron, Ohio, Bowling Green and Miami) and 6 in the West, Army could play 4 games against the East that would count as conference games. Eastern division schools could play 2 interdivision games (2x7=14) plus 4 games against Army, and Western Division schools could play 3 interdivision games (3x6=18). Army could play 2 games against Western Division school that did not count as conference games. The MAC could add Army to its bowl rotation, presumably with an extra bowl.

This arrangement would benefit both the MAC and Army.

There is no official scheduling agreement, but Army already plays 4-5 MAC teams every year for the past 15+ years. The MAC would probably be fine signing something official though. Share bowls (MAC backup when Army not eligible, share TV (CBS Sports), etc...

Yes.

The MAC is already playing Army and it is part of an official scheduling agreement with the league. I don't know if there is any contractual maximums or minimums as much as the MAC will help Army as they request to fill out their schedule and that is why you see some flux in the number of games played against the MAC.

What the MAC could really use is a slot in a bowl game vs. Army, BYU and the AAC for its #1 team. That is the biggest thing missing for the MAC, a quality #1 bowl outside of the CFP structure.

This might be the MAC's answer to the unbalanced divisions.

If the 7-team division plays 3 crossover games each, 3 of the teams in the 6-team division actually have 4 crossover games and 3 teams have 3 crossover games. Plug Army in to the other 3 teams' schedules and everyone gets 9 games.

If the 7-team division gets 2 crossover games each, the other division has 2 teams playing 3 crossovers and 4 teams playing 2 crossovers. Army would then play 4 MAC schools so that all 13 teams get 8 games.

The only bad part about this scenario is that it effectively makes Army a member of one division of the MAC, and the alignment would have to be changed for Army to play the schools in the other division.

(07-05-2013 11:12 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 10:12 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 09:08 PM)orangefan Wrote:  The MAC continues to review its options regarding how to balance the conference given its current 13 school configuration (drop UMass vs. adding a 14th school), and Army faces the same scheduling problem as Notre Dame, i.e, how to fill its schedule in the middle of conference play and how to arrange suitable bowls. Army hasnmultiole open dates, for instance, this year during the heart of conference play. One mutually beneficial solution would be for Army and the MAC to make a scheduling alliance like Notre Dame's deal with the ACC in Football.

For instance, if the MAC split its divisions with 7 in the east (Umass, Buffalo, Kent, Akron, Ohio, Bowling Green and Miami) and 6 in the West, Army could play 4 games against the East that would count as conference games. Eastern division schools could play 2 interdivision games (2x7=14) plus 4 games against Army, and Western Division schools could play 3 interdivision games (3x6=18). Army could play 2 games against Western Division school that did not count as conference games. The MAC could add Army to its bowl rotation, presumably with an extra bowl.

This arrangement would benefit both the MAC and Army.

There is no official scheduling agreement, but Army already plays 4-5 MAC teams every year for the past 15+ years. The MAC would probably be fine signing something official though. Share bowls (MAC backup when Army not eligible, share TV (CBS Sports), etc...

Yes.

The MAC is already playing Army and it is part of an official scheduling agreement with the league. I don't know if there is any contractual maximums or minimums as much as the MAC will help Army as they request to fill out their schedule and that is why you see some flux in the number of games played against the MAC.

What the MAC could really use is a slot in a bowl game vs. Army, BYU and the AAC for its #1 team. That is the biggest thing missing for the MAC, a quality #1 bowl outside of the CFP structure.

I'd rather not play any bowls vs the weak AAC, it helps them but doesnt really help us. We beat them and its expected, they beat us and it a major upset and headache.

For example in 2012:
Ball State beat South Florida
Toledo beat Cincinnati
4-8 Western Michigan owned UConn for the 2nd straight year.
Everybody in the MAC owns Temple
Kent beat Rutgers

What kind of credit did we get? Nothing, was expected. The only credit we got was beating non-AAC teams like Penn State, Iowa, and Indiana. We should not schedule AAC teams unless it is 2 for 1 where we play twice at MAC stadiums or AAC at neutral sites.

We need to distance the gap between the MAC and them. Let them play the Sun Belt.

Can't wait for ESPN to finish replacing their blog with ours. LOL.

(07-05-2013 09:08 PM)orangefan Wrote:  The MAC continues to review its options regarding how to balance the conference given its current 13 school configuration (drop UMass vs. adding a 14th school), and Army faces the same scheduling problem as Notre Dame, i.e, how to fill its schedule in the middle of conference play and how to arrange suitable bowls. Army hasnmultiole open dates, for instance, this year during the heart of conference play. One mutually beneficial solution would be for Army and the MAC to make a scheduling alliance like Notre Dame's deal with the ACC in Football.

For instance, if the MAC split its divisions with 7 in the east (Umass, Buffalo, Kent, Akron, Ohio, Bowling Green and Miami) and 6 in the West, Army could play 4 games against the East that would count as conference games. Eastern division schools could play 2 interdivision games (2x7=14) plus 4 games against Army, and Western Division schools could play 3 interdivision games (3x6=18). Army could play 2 games against Western Division school that did not count as conference games. The MAC could add Army to its bowl rotation, presumably with an extra bowl.

This arrangement would benefit both the MAC and Army.

Why not just add them as a football only---but let them keep their separate media agreement? They, like Navy, make more than the members of the conference they are joining (because the Army-Navy game alone pays each school 2.5 million). Just let them keep their independent media agreement with CBS.

The MAC would still get 4 Army games added to their media package (all the Army away conference games). Adding Army balances the league, adds a little value to the package----and it doesn't cost the league a dime (the media deal will continue to be split 13 ways as Army would not get a share). For Army, it solves their scheduling problems and cleans up their bowl situation. Their schedule wouldn't change that much as they played quite a few MAC teams anyway.

(07-05-2013 11:19 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 11:12 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 10:12 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 09:08 PM)orangefan Wrote:  The MAC continues to review its options regarding how to balance the conference given its current 13 school configuration (drop UMass vs. adding a 14th school), and Army faces the same scheduling problem as Notre Dame, i.e, how to fill its schedule in the middle of conference play and how to arrange suitable bowls. Army hasnmultiole open dates, for instance, this year during the heart of conference play. One mutually beneficial solution would be for Army and the MAC to make a scheduling alliance like Notre Dame's deal with the ACC in Football.

For instance, if the MAC split its divisions with 7 in the east (Umass, Buffalo, Kent, Akron, Ohio, Bowling Green and Miami) and 6 in the West, Army could play 4 games against the East that would count as conference games. Eastern division schools could play 2 interdivision games (2x7=14) plus 4 games against Army, and Western Division schools could play 3 interdivision games (3x6=18). Army could play 2 games against Western Division school that did not count as conference games. The MAC could add Army to its bowl rotation, presumably with an extra bowl.

This arrangement would benefit both the MAC and Army.

There is no official scheduling agreement, but Army already plays 4-5 MAC teams every year for the past 15+ years. The MAC would probably be fine signing something official though. Share bowls (MAC backup when Army not eligible, share TV (CBS Sports), etc...

Yes.

The MAC is already playing Army and it is part of an official scheduling agreement with the league. I don't know if there is any contractual maximums or minimums as much as the MAC will help Army as they request to fill out their schedule and that is why you see some flux in the number of games played against the MAC.

What the MAC could really use is a slot in a bowl game vs. Army, BYU and the AAC for its #1 team. That is the biggest thing missing for the MAC, a quality #1 bowl outside of the CFP structure.

I'd rather not play any bowls vs the weak AAC, it helps them but doesnt really help us. We beat them and its expected, they beat us and it a major upset and headache.

For example in 2012:
Ball State beat South Florida
Toledo beat Cincinnati
4-8 Western Michigan owned UConn for the 2nd straight year.
Everybody in the MAC owns Temple
Kent beat Rutgers

What kind of credit did we get? Nothing, was expected. The only credit we got was beating non-AAC teams like Penn State, Iowa, and Indiana. We should not schedule AAC teams unless it is 2 for 1 where we play twice at MAC stadiums or AAC at neutral sites.

We need to distance the gap between the MAC and them. Let them play the Sun Belt.

Can't wait for ESPN to finish replacing their blog with ours. LOL.

We could give the AAC UMass....the weakest program in the MAC playing in a stadium 93 miles away as a gift of gratitude.

Why don't they just sign up as a MAC FB only member?

(07-06-2013 12:42 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Why don't they just sign up as a MAC FB only member?

Likely because they don't want to commit that many games to a single conference.

(07-06-2013 02:20 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-06-2013 12:42 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Why don't they just sign up as a MAC FB only member?

Likely because they don't want to commit that many games to a single conference.

Don't forget tradition. Army does value tradition as well.

(07-05-2013 11:14 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  This might be the MAC's answer to the unbalanced divisions.

If the 7-team division plays 3 crossover games each, 3 of the teams in the 6-team division actually have 4 crossover games and 3 teams have 3 crossover games. Plug Army in to the other 3 teams' schedules and everyone gets 9 games.

If the 7-team division gets 2 crossover games each, the other division has 2 teams playing 3 crossovers and 4 teams playing 2 crossovers. Army would then play 4 MAC schools so that all 13 teams get 8 games.

The only bad part about this scenario is that it effectively makes Army a member of one division of the MAC, and the alignment would have to be changed for Army to play the schools in the other division.

You are correct, it is the6 team division that needs the extra games.

So make the east UMass, Buffalo, Miami, Ohio, Akron and Kent, and they could play 14 crossovers plus 4 games vs. Army = 18 = 3x6. The west would play 2 crossovers each, giving both divisions a 8 game schedule. Or they could play a 9 game schedule as you suggest.

It would make them a pseudo member of the east, but they would likely be placed in the east if they were a full member. I did suggest that they play some western members OOC.

They have played many MAC schools over the years. Over the next 2 years, though, I only see them playing 2 games per year, and having multiple open dates during the core conference season. Addressing the latter was even a concern for ND, so I assume it will be a confusing concern for Army.

Forget unbalanced divisions. The MAC is waiting for things to shake out, but must expand or contract. I think they will add 1-3 teams in the next few years unless they lose someone. The MAC is a solid conference but draws little interest and gets little respect. They need to add more media markets and places that can bring more fans and media attention. UMass for all sports. WKU, MTSU, Army, Delaware, Missouri St., etc., etc., etc.. Also may need to jettison the weak sister EMU.

(07-06-2013 03:13 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(07-06-2013 02:20 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-06-2013 12:42 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Why don't they just sign up as a MAC FB only member?

Likely because they don't want to commit that many games to a single conference.

Don't forget tradition. Army does value tradition as well.

8 conference games, Navy, Air Force and Notre Dame with one more game left for it's already scheduled games against Rutgers at Yankee Stadium.

(07-06-2013 10:37 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  Forget unbalanced divisions. The MAC is waiting for things to shake out, but must expand or contract. I think they will add 1-3 teams in the next few years unless they lose someone. The MAC is a solid conference but draws little interest and gets little respect. They need to add more media markets and places that can bring more fans and media attention. UMass for all sports. WKU, MTSU, Army, Delaware, Missouri St., etc., etc., etc.. Also may need to jettison the weak sister EMU.

Army FB only, Delaware and James Madison all sports.

East:
UMass
Buffalo
Army
Delaware
James Madison
Kent St.
Akron
Ohio

West:
Miami
Bowling Green
Toledo
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
Ball St.

Championship game in Cleveland.

(07-05-2013 11:14 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  This might be the MAC's answer to the unbalanced divisions.

Note, however, that the unbalanced divisions are not a sufficiently big annoyance to justify adding schools just for the sake of adding schools.

Army FB-only would be an appealing add for its own sake, entirely independent of games of Conference Realignment Risk ... appealing enough that I reckon that if Army wanted it, it would have already happened.

(07-06-2013 11:57 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 11:14 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  This might be the MAC's answer to the unbalanced divisions.

Note, however, that the unbalanced divisions are not a sufficiently big annoyance to justify adding schools just for the sake of adding schools.

Army FB-only would be an appealing add for its own sake, entirely independent of games of Conference Realignment Risk ... appealing enough that I reckon that if Army wanted it, it would have already happened.

Thats true, but if i'm the MAC i'm constantly keeping in touch. Not at the level of pestering but just keep letting them know you're there. They are the biggest name school that the MAC can land. A team the whole country knows.

Also, with Navy finally joining a conference the writing is on the wall for non-ND independence. Even the Irish needed an agreement with the ACC to help keep it's independence. I don't see Army hanging on too much longer as an indie.

(07-06-2013 12:09 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-06-2013 11:57 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 11:14 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  This might be the MAC's answer to the unbalanced divisions.

Note, however, that the unbalanced divisions are not a sufficiently big annoyance to justify adding schools just for the sake of adding schools.

Army FB-only would be an appealing add for its own sake, entirely independent of games of Conference Realignment Risk ... appealing enough that I reckon that if Army wanted it, it would have already happened.

Thats true, but if i'm the MAC i'm constantly keeping in touch. Not at the level of pestering but just keep letting them know you're there. They are the biggest name school that the MAC can land. A team the whole country knows.

Also, with Navy finally joining a conference the writing is on the wall for non-ND independence. Even the Irish needed an agreement with the ACC to help keep it's independents. I don't see Army hanging on too much longer as an indie.

That's what I think. If the MAC offered football only membership--but allowed Army to keep their independent deal with CBS--I suspect the deal would get done. It would simply make too much sense for both sides.

(07-06-2013 11:10 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-06-2013 10:37 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  Forget unbalanced divisions. The MAC is waiting for things to shake out, but must expand or contract. I think they will add 1-3 teams in the next few years unless they lose someone. The MAC is a solid conference but draws little interest and gets little respect. They need to add more media markets and places that can bring more fans and media attention. UMass for all sports. WKU, MTSU, Army, Delaware, Missouri St., etc., etc., etc.. Also may need to jettison the weak sister EMU.

Army FB only, Delaware and James Madison all sports.

East:
UMass
Buffalo
Army
Delaware
James Madison
Kent St.
Akron
Ohio

West:
Miami
Bowling Green
Toledo
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
Ball St.

Championship game in Cleveland.

I would argue that Miami would prefer to play in the MAC East than in an 8 team MAC West.

The MAC might be best at 12 members, the G5 payout minimum for a few reasons one of which is this league because of attendance will never secure more than 5 bowl bids so why split the pie any further?

Reese
Ohio
Miami
Bowling Green
Eastern Michigan
Ball State
Northern Illinois

Jacoby
Buffalo
Kent State
Akron
Toledo
Western Michigan
Central Michigan

This way you're able to break up the divisions better with more balance in FB/BB. I don't like how 5 of 6 Ohio schools are in one division and all 3 Michigan schools are in the other.

Permanent FB cross-overs

Ohio/Buffalo
Miami/Kent State
Bowling Green/Toledo
Eastern Michigan/Central Michigan
Ball State/Akron
Northern Illinois/Western Michigan

Play an 18 game schedule in basketball where you play every division member twice plus your FB crossover 2 times and one other school.

Ohio/Buffalo/Kent State
Miami/Kent State/Akron
Bowling Green/Toledo/Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan/Central Michigan/Western Michigan
Ball State/Akron/Toledo
Northern Illinois/Western Michigan/Buffalo

My guess if Army is going to give up it's independence, that it would probably prefer The American, given that Navy is already there and the Army-Navy game as a conference game, would allow the Knights to then use their OOC schedule on other traditional opponents.

Two catches: The American already has 12 for football starting in 2015, and the traditional date of the Army-Navy game makes it hard to count it as part of the standings in a league that has a championship game. UMass and Army can fix the first problem, the second one might be more of an issue.

One possible method around that might be to have Army and Navy in separate divisions, and treat the game as a non-conference game. There's always the mathematical possibility (1/49) of an Army-Navy championship game preceding the scheduled game in Week 15, but it would be unlikely. Of course that means both Army and Navy are still giving up at least 8 games annually.

The American could also have Army and Navy use their game against each other as one of their 8 or 9 conference games and keep the traditional date for their game, but then that opens up the possibility of one of them going 6-1 in conference play, while a team in their division that beat them but finished 6-2 doesn't play for the conference title.