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ESPN/Take Two: B1G, ACC battle for New York ...
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krup Offline
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Post: #81
RE: ESPN/Take Two: B1G, ACC battle for New York ...
(07-08-2013 05:41 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:04 PM)krup Wrote:  It amazes me how many people try to use "evidence" like interest in an uncommon NYC area Duke BB game or Syracuse fans attending the BE basketball tournament to infer they are the "tip of the iceberg" of some larger, hidden level of fan support.

By that logic, the Mexican soccer league should be announcing their expansion into the NYC area shortly, since El Tri play in Giants Stadium every year or two and draw 40-50,000 Mexican fans!

In reality, the rarity of events like the Duke BB games, and the tradition of Syracuse fans knowing they are going to MSG to be relevant in the competition for the tournament title, mean these games become "events" that draw an inordinate % of the team's local supporters. Other data, like the poor attendance at Syr-USC and the consistent weak Syracuse fan showing at RU stadium games, shows that there just aren't that many people in the NYC area that give a s**t about Syracuse.

So, if the above is reality, how do you explain that despite being less than a half hour ride away from Penn Station and despite having 230K alumni in the NYC metro area which is 10 times more than any other college outside of SU, and there you got us by about 7.5 times our number, Rutgers can't manage to fill up a 52K stadium and draws single digit fans to MSG?

Didn't want to take it this level, but sometimes one has to be a shark to eat a shark.

Cheers,
Neil
Rutgers averaged 49K+ attendance in a 52K seat stadium, so if any of the Big East schools (like Syracuse) sold their 3k road allotment instead of bringing a few hundred people RU would have basically sold out every football game. That will not be a problem in the B1G.

Rutgers drew 50K+ to play the Howard Bison at the same time Syracuse-USC drew 39K (of which ESPN said more were USC supporters). You would think those NYC Cuse fans the ACC is talking about (if they existed), given the rare chance to see their team play anyone, let alone one of the legendary programs of college football, would have done better than that.

Rutgers basketball has decades of ineptitude to overcome to interest people in coming to their games. RU fans don't buy tickets to a tournament they don't expect their team to be a part of for long, and no one is arguing the B1G added RU because of basketball.
07-08-2013 06:27 PM
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krup Offline
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Post: #82
RE: ESPN/Take Two: B1G, ACC battle for New York ...
(07-08-2013 05:52 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:44 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:41 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:04 PM)krup Wrote:  It amazes me how many people try to use "evidence" like interest in an uncommon NYC area Duke BB game or Syracuse fans attending the BE basketball tournament to infer they are the "tip of the iceberg" of some larger, hidden level of fan support.

By that logic, the Mexican soccer league should be announcing their expansion into the NYC area shortly, since El Tri play in Giants Stadium every year or two and draw 40-50,000 Mexican fans!

In reality, the rarity of events like the Duke BB games, and the tradition of Syracuse fans knowing they are going to MSG to be relevant in the competition for the tournament title, mean these games become "events" that draw an inordinate % of the team's local supporters. Other data, like the poor attendance at Syr-USC and the consistent weak Syracuse fan showing at RU stadium games, shows that there just aren't that many people in the NYC area that give a s**t about Syracuse.

So, if the above is reality, how do you explain that despite being less than a half hour ride away from Penn Station and despite having 230K alumni in the NYC metro area which is 10 times more than any other college outside of SU, and there you got us by about 7.5 times our number, Rutgers can't manage to fill up a 52K stadium and draws single digit fans to MSG?

Didn't want to take it this level, but sometimes one has to be a shark to eat a shark.

Cheers,
Neil

You can't compare one game to a whole season. The game vs USC at Giants stadium was an event. Doing it for a whole season is a different story.

Well, it's not as though Rutgers hasn't had "event games" as well. How did they work out for the Scarlet Knights?

Cheers,
Neil
The only RU late season games with the Knights having a chance at the title, 2006 Louisville and 2012 Louisville, were both sellouts. When they opened the expanded stadium against Cincinnati in 2009 it was a sellout. Is that what you mean by "event games"?
07-08-2013 06:37 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #83
RE: ESPN/Take Two: B1G, ACC battle for New York ...
(07-08-2013 05:45 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 04:25 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 04:16 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 04:02 PM)omniorange Wrote:  I'm aware that Pernetti did try to make strides in making improvements in the schedule and one can't help it if Arkansas tanks like they did last year. I'm just pointing out that Rutgers could have a difficult time adjusting to life in the BiG based on the data. One thing that will help is that recruiting initially should even be better than it has been for them.

However, during their "golden years", they never beat WVU, the top dog in the Big East, didn't beat the Bearcats in their power years, and was basically 1-2 against the really good Louisville teams they faced but that one win was indeed spectacular.

But how long are the bandwagoners going to stay on this train if the Scarlet Knights don't approach the promise they held out in 2006.

Recapture the magic of that year on a consistent basis and then Rutgers could become NYC's college football team.

Cheers,
Neil

I don't see it as bandwagoners, I see it as a student body and alumni base starting to actually care. ND fans in NYC are bandwagoners, Rutgers fans in NYC are alum and those from NJ or have family that went there. Thats different. Unlike ND or even Cuse Rutgers is a state school like the majority of the B1G and that leads to state wide support.
Unless they turn into Indiana, which I don't see happening with their recent recruiting, their base will continue to grow. I don't think they will be OSU or UM level of fan support but they can definitely become a respectable size.

With their new merger with the medical school Rutgers is now 3rd in student body size in the country I believe. Thats HUGE!

It's ironic that one thinks New Jersey has "state" pride in anything.

They allow New York's football teams to play in the state. They allow Syracuse to play college games as New York State's team in the same venue. Their major university is named Rutgers.

The plain truth of the matter is that the state of New Jersey might has well be divided up between the state of New York in the north and the state of Pennsylvania to the South for all of the so-called "state" pride the majority of its residents have.

Cheers,
Neil

You clearly have no clue as how New Jersey thinks. It has tremendous state pride because of the dopes to our north and the knuckleheads to our west keep making fun of us, yet they can't stop themselves for coming on over for our beaches, shopping and just general awesomeness.

In fact NYC is more like the state of NJ than it is like the state of NY. Same goes for Philly and PA. So it's more like NJ is seeping into those states than those states taking us over. Is Syracuse anything like NYC? Not at all. Is Eerie PA anything like Philly? Nope, not in the least.

Stick to the stuff you know.

Oh and Cuse is in no f'in way New Yorks state team. Only the delusional orange fans think that.

I see you didn't counter anything I said.

Again, if there is such "state" pride how do you explain having two pro football teams play in the state but call themselves New York, lose your NBA franchise to Brooklyn, have no MLB franchise, are allowing New York's College Team to play in your state, and call your state university Rutgers?

When you can satisfactorily explain the above and how it all shows "state" pride, then you can tell others to stick to the stuff they know. Until then, anyone with common sense reading this knows I'm right.

Cheers,
Neil

1. Who cares what they call themselves we get the revenue from 2 NFL franchises.

2. Cuse is in no way New York's state team. Not a chance that a private school in upstate NY represents the state.

3. State pride in NJ is something someone not from Nj will ever comprehend.

4. Insulting others is all Cuse fans seem to want to do to make themselves feel better. No matter if it's St. John's, NJ or anyone else who presents reality to the Orange fans unrealistic statement that they are NYC and NY States team.

5. How many MLB teams are in NY state outside of NYC? You guys have 1 NHL team and 1 NFL team who has to go into canada to get more fans to show up to. Half of the fans for those NYC teams are from NJ.

6. You can't see that I countered what you said because you don't want to see the points I made.
07-08-2013 06:39 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #84
RE: ESPN/Take Two: B1G, ACC battle for New York ...
(07-08-2013 06:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:45 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 04:25 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 04:16 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I don't see it as bandwagoners, I see it as a student body and alumni base starting to actually care. ND fans in NYC are bandwagoners, Rutgers fans in NYC are alum and those from NJ or have family that went there. Thats different. Unlike ND or even Cuse Rutgers is a state school like the majority of the B1G and that leads to state wide support.
Unless they turn into Indiana, which I don't see happening with their recent recruiting, their base will continue to grow. I don't think they will be OSU or UM level of fan support but they can definitely become a respectable size.

With their new merger with the medical school Rutgers is now 3rd in student body size in the country I believe. Thats HUGE!

It's ironic that one thinks New Jersey has "state" pride in anything.

They allow New York's football teams to play in the state. They allow Syracuse to play college games as New York State's team in the same venue. Their major university is named Rutgers.

The plain truth of the matter is that the state of New Jersey might has well be divided up between the state of New York in the north and the state of Pennsylvania to the South for all of the so-called "state" pride the majority of its residents have.

Cheers,
Neil

You clearly have no clue as how New Jersey thinks. It has tremendous state pride because of the dopes to our north and the knuckleheads to our west keep making fun of us, yet they can't stop themselves for coming on over for our beaches, shopping and just general awesomeness.

In fact NYC is more like the state of NJ than it is like the state of NY. Same goes for Philly and PA. So it's more like NJ is seeping into those states than those states taking us over. Is Syracuse anything like NYC? Not at all. Is Eerie PA anything like Philly? Nope, not in the least.

Stick to the stuff you know.

Oh and Cuse is in no f'in way New Yorks state team. Only the delusional orange fans think that.

I see you didn't counter anything I said.

Again, if there is such "state" pride how do you explain having two pro football teams play in the state but call themselves New York, lose your NBA franchise to Brooklyn, have no MLB franchise, are allowing New York's College Team to play in your state, and call your state university Rutgers?

When you can satisfactorily explain the above and how it all shows "state" pride, then you can tell others to stick to the stuff they know. Until then, anyone with common sense reading this knows I'm right.

Cheers,
Neil



2. Cuse is in no way New York's state team. Not a chance that a private school in upstate NY represents the state.

You better tell all of those Cuse fans in The Thousand Islands, The Adirondacks, Rochester, Buffalo and Albany, that they are not supposed to root for a private school like Syracuse, because they dont know any better, apparently. Same for the "few fans" in Westchester, Long Island, and NYC. But Im having a problem with your statement. If SU doesnt represent the State of NY, who does it better,the university of Buffalo?
07-08-2013 08:39 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #85
RE: ESPN/Take Two: B1G, ACC battle for New York ...
(07-08-2013 06:37 PM)krup Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:52 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:44 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:41 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:04 PM)krup Wrote:  It amazes me how many people try to use "evidence" like interest in an uncommon NYC area Duke BB game or Syracuse fans attending the BE basketball tournament to infer they are the "tip of the iceberg" of some larger, hidden level of fan support.

By that logic, the Mexican soccer league should be announcing their expansion into the NYC area shortly, since El Tri play in Giants Stadium every year or two and draw 40-50,000 Mexican fans!

In reality, the rarity of events like the Duke BB games, and the tradition of Syracuse fans knowing they are going to MSG to be relevant in the competition for the tournament title, mean these games become "events" that draw an inordinate % of the team's local supporters. Other data, like the poor attendance at Syr-USC and the consistent weak Syracuse fan showing at RU stadium games, shows that there just aren't that many people in the NYC area that give a s**t about Syracuse.

So, if the above is reality, how do you explain that despite being less than a half hour ride away from Penn Station and despite having 230K alumni in the NYC metro area which is 10 times more than any other college outside of SU, and there you got us by about 7.5 times our number, Rutgers can't manage to fill up a 52K stadium and draws single digit fans to MSG?

Didn't want to take it this level, but sometimes one has to be a shark to eat a shark.

Cheers,
Neil

You can't compare one game to a whole season. The game vs USC at Giants stadium was an event. Doing it for a whole season is a different story.

Well, it's not as though Rutgers hasn't had "event games" as well. How did they work out for the Scarlet Knights?

Cheers,
Neil
The only RU late season games with the Knights having a chance at the title, 2006 Louisville and 2012 Louisville, were both sellouts. When they opened the expanded stadium against Cincinnati in 2009 it was a sellout. Is that what you mean by "event games"?

Oh, so an "event" game is now basically a game with a BCS Bowl game on the line or facing a BCS Bowl game representative in the opening game at the expanded stadium?

So why bring up SU/USC as an "event" game? Wouldn't the equivalent Rutgers "event" games to that be facing Army at Yankee Stadium or the Pinstripe Bowl game?

Cheers,
Neil
07-09-2013 06:15 AM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #86
RE: ESPN/Take Two: B1G, ACC battle for New York ...
(07-08-2013 06:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:45 PM)omniorange Wrote:  I see you didn't counter anything I said.

Again, if there is such "state" pride how do you explain having two pro football teams play in the state but call themselves New York, lose your NBA franchise to Brooklyn, have no MLB franchise, are allowing New York's College Team to play in your state, and call your state university Rutgers?

When you can satisfactorily explain the above and how it all shows "state" pride, then you can tell others to stick to the stuff they know. Until then, anyone with common sense reading this knows I'm right.

Cheers,
Neil

1. Who cares what they call themselves we get the revenue from 2 NFL franchises.

2. Cuse is in no way New York's state team. Not a chance that a private school in upstate NY represents the state.

3. State pride in NJ is something someone not from Nj will ever comprehend.

4. Insulting others is all Cuse fans seem to want to do to make themselves feel better. No matter if it's St. John's, NJ or anyone else who presents reality to the Orange fans unrealistic statement that they are NYC and NY States team.

5. How many MLB teams are in NY state outside of NYC? You guys have 1 NHL team and 1 NFL team who has to go into canada to get more fans to show up to. Half of the fans for those NYC teams are from NJ.

6. You can't see that I countered what you said because you don't want to see the points I made.

03-lmfao

You don't even realize that what you have said above basically backs up my point.

1) As long as we get the $$$ what do we care that the Giants and Jets are 'New York' teams.

5) Half of those fans for those New York teams are from New Jersey.

3) New Jersey "state" pride should be self-evident, if it truly existed. It shouldn't be something incomprehensible to those outside of the state.

2 and 4) don't address my points about New Jersey "state" pride at all. It's just the usual SU is a private school and SU fans suck

So, no, I don't see how you countered my point (6) at all.

Anyway, I'm done. You can have the last word if you like, but sometimes it's best to remain silent than dig yourself in deeper.

Cheers,
Neil
07-09-2013 06:24 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #87
RE: ESPN/Take Two: B1G, ACC battle for New York ...
(07-08-2013 01:42 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 01:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 01:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 11:12 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:53 AM)omniorange Wrote:  Neither the city's favorite college football team nor its favorite college basketball team "varies". It has consistently been Notre Dame for the former since the 30s and 40s and Duke for the latter since the Johnnies started to fall from grace in the 90s.

As an SU fan, it gives me no pleasure to say the latter. But it is what it is.

Cheers,
Neil

Thats not even close to the truth. I've lived in NYC for the last 14 years, and thats not true at all.

Notre Dame fans are mostly baby boomers and older. Once kids could watch more than just Notre Dame on saturdays that killed the large ND fan base. Also the amount of kids who come from all over the country who went to every school you can think of constantly flood into the city.

Also the idea that Duke is NYC's team is laughable. The black community does not look at that rich white school as their own. Just like FB the fan bases are as diverse as the people in the city. Unlike most cities there isn't a strong connection to 1 school or conference because the amount of people who went to different schools.


I have to tell all of my children, nephews, nieces, grand nephews and second/third cousins about this news....

I guess that those high television ratings for ND on ABC and NBC last year were all generated from nursing home satellite dishes.....



http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-...e-dame-usc

http://www.sbnation.com/2012/12/11/37546...notre-dame

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2012/10/...ng-on-nbc/

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releas...of-season/

http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2012-arti...urday.html


.

Do they live in NYC? I do and there is not some huge ND fan base here. Do people turn the game on? Sure. Are they die hard fans? Nope. Yes, there are ND fans in the city just like every other school. Are they the overwhelming favorite? Nope. Do some kids who are Irish and either never went to college or went to a small non-FB school root for the Irish? yeah sure. Is it the level it used to be? Not even close.

You can post links to chicago papers and sites but South Bend is a LOT closer to Chicago than it is to NYC.

EDIT: Those are all rating from ND's best season in a LOOONG time. How about the rating when they were 6-6/7-5 and going to the Hawaii bowl? Fans and casual fans tend to watch highly ranked teams if their own team isn't playing.

(07-08-2013 06:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:45 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 05:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 04:25 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-08-2013 04:16 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I don't see it as bandwagoners, I see it as a student body and alumni base starting to actually care. ND fans in NYC are bandwagoners, Rutgers fans in NYC are alum and those from NJ or have family that went there. Thats different. Unlike ND or even Cuse Rutgers is a state school like the majority of the B1G and that leads to state wide support.
Unless they turn into Indiana, which I don't see happening with their recent recruiting, their base will continue to grow. I don't think they will be OSU or UM level of fan support but they can definitely become a respectable size.

With their new merger with the medical school Rutgers is now 3rd in student body size in the country I believe. Thats HUGE!

It's ironic that one thinks New Jersey has "state" pride in anything.

They allow New York's football teams to play in the state. They allow Syracuse to play college games as New York State's team in the same venue. Their major university is named Rutgers.

The plain truth of the matter is that the state of New Jersey might has well be divided up between the state of New York in the north and the state of Pennsylvania to the South for all of the so-called "state" pride the majority of its residents have.

Cheers,
Neil

You clearly have no clue as how New Jersey thinks. It has tremendous state pride because of the dopes to our north and the knuckleheads to our west keep making fun of us, yet they can't stop themselves for coming on over for our beaches, shopping and just general awesomeness.

In fact NYC is more like the state of NJ than it is like the state of NY. Same goes for Philly and PA. So it's more like NJ is seeping into those states than those states taking us over. Is Syracuse anything like NYC? Not at all. Is Eerie PA anything like Philly? Nope, not in the least.

Stick to the stuff you know.

Oh and Cuse is in no f'in way New Yorks state team. Only the delusional orange fans think that.

I see you didn't counter anything I said.

Again, if there is such "state" pride how do you explain having two pro football teams play in the state but call themselves New York, lose your NBA franchise to Brooklyn, have no MLB franchise, are allowing New York's College Team to play in your state, and call your state university Rutgers?

When you can satisfactorily explain the above and how it all shows "state" pride, then you can tell others to stick to the stuff they know. Until then, anyone with common sense reading this knows I'm right.

Cheers,
Neil

1. Who cares what they call themselves we get the revenue from 2 NFL franchises.

2. Cuse is in no way New York's state team. Not a chance that a private school in upstate NY represents the state.

3. State pride in NJ is something someone not from Nj will ever comprehend.

4. Insulting others is all Cuse fans seem to want to do to make themselves feel better. No matter if it's St. John's, NJ or anyone else who presents reality to the Orange fans unrealistic statement that they are NYC and NY States team.

5. How many MLB teams are in NY state outside of NYC? You guys have 1 NHL team and 1 NFL team who has to go into canada to get more fans to show up to. Half of the fans for those NYC teams are from NJ.

6. You can't see that I countered what you said because you don't want to see the points I made.



Did winning turn into the Fountain of Youth and cause all of those aged and dying off ND fans you mentioned into young people?

Calling Ponce de Leon..... :)
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2013 06:56 AM by TerryD.)
07-09-2013 06:48 AM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #88
RE: ESPN/Take Two: B1G, ACC battle for New York ...
Well this thread turned out exactly as I thought it would, with a lot of people slinging mud. People like OmniOrange even engaging in the mudslinging... Time to close this down to let cooler heads prevail.
07-09-2013 06:58 AM
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