In the end it big enough for both leagues...interesting back & forth...got it from omniorange on the ACC Board...also from this take interesting:

But where the Big Ten might believe it has an advantage with the “power” programs like Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State, the ACC can draw on another sport to help it win over New Yorkers: basketball. The ACC is angling to play its men’s basketball tournament in Madison Square Garden after its deal with Greensboro, N.C., expires.

Here is the link:

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id...r-new-york

And the battle probably rages on for another 10+ years...

(07-07-2013 07:30 PM)Maize Wrote:  In the end it big enough for both leagues...interesting back & forth...got it from omniorange on the ACC Board...also from this take interesting:

But where the Big Ten might believe it has an advantage with the “power” programs like Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State, the ACC can draw on another sport to help it win over New Yorkers: basketball. The ACC is angling to play its men’s basketball tournament in Madison Square Garden after its deal with Greensboro, N.C., expires.

Here is the link:

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id...r-new-york

Once again ESPN is the only one even suggesting this will happen. The Big East has a contract to 2026 and the only "out" MSG has is if they lose teams.

Haha, ESPN desperately trying to get back to MSG....

I can see a lot of Syracuse, Pitt, UNC & Duke neutral site games in MSG...myself, I am more then fine with the ACC in Greensboro...the UofL, Syracuse, UNC & Duke ACC Semifinal is must see TV for the College Hoop fans and would over shadow any other Semifinal not named the NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four...

The battle for NY will be won with teams, not tournaments.

(07-07-2013 08:00 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 07:30 PM)Maize Wrote:  In the end it big enough for both leagues...interesting back & forth...got it from omniorange on the ACC Board...also from this take interesting:

But where the Big Ten might believe it has an advantage with the “power” programs like Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State, the ACC can draw on another sport to help it win over New Yorkers: basketball. The ACC is angling to play its men’s basketball tournament in Madison Square Garden after its deal with Greensboro, N.C., expires.

Here is the link:

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id...r-new-york

Once again ESPN is the only one even suggesting this will happen. The Big East has a contract to 2026 and the only "out" MSG has is if they lose teams.

Agreed. The ACC should not pin its hopes on this, and I do not believe that it is doing so.

Folks will turn on Great Basketball if in Greensboro or MSG. TV driven , not so much as attendance. The real powerhouse Schools will be the Draw Nationally.

Ive said before that the basketball angle may play a role in the B1G's future expansion plans.

In 10 years, if they think the ACCs shiny new basketball machine is undermining them (particularly in NYC) then with GORs expiring, UConn and KU could be tempting adds for them.

(07-07-2013 08:32 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 08:00 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 07:30 PM)Maize Wrote:  In the end it big enough for both leagues...interesting back & forth...got it from omniorange on the ACC Board...also from this take interesting:

But where the Big Ten might believe it has an advantage with the “power” programs like Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State, the ACC can draw on another sport to help it win over New Yorkers: basketball. The ACC is angling to play its men’s basketball tournament in Madison Square Garden after its deal with Greensboro, N.C., expires.

Here is the link:

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id...r-new-york

Once again ESPN is the only one even suggesting this will happen. The Big East has a contract to 2026 and the only "out" MSG has is if they lose teams.

Agreed. The ACC should not pin its hopes on this, and I do not believe that it is doing so.

The ACC would be better served if they would just have some neutral site Regular Season Basketball games involving Syracuse, Pitt, ND, UNC & Duke in MSG. If available get into the Barclay Center on a rotating basis for the ACC Tournamant.

In Football isn't Syracuse playing some games in Met Life?

This whole deal is 100 percent cray-cray on nearly every conceivable level. I'm beginning to think that the people orchestrating this sheer idiocy are masterminds in the same way Kim Jong-Il was a military mastermind.

It is positively breathtaking that so many otherwise intelligent people can't ever seem to wrap their heads around this particular issue. Seriously, the arrogance is amazing to the point of it being semi-impressive.

Do you know which league is going to most turn on the denizens of New York City and its metropolitan area?

The NFL.

Then, in order, MLB, the NBA and the NHL.

Then...well, that right there's the rub. There is no fifth option - at least not on anything approaching the level any of these numb skulls are dreaming up.

New York didn't reject Big East football, it rejected college football as a whole. In October, they would much rather talk about Donny Baseball than Johnny Football. That is never going to change regardless of how many banners they hang up inside Yankee Stadium.

That is basically the same problem that all college programs have in pro-centric markets; they are looked at as derivative products and "lesser than" the "real thing."

People say, "Ooo, this weekend is the big LSU/Alabama game." Every one of us recognizes that is as good as it gets in college football. Well, their response to that is likely along the lines of, "That's cool. The very best players on those two teams might one day play in a Giants/Cowboys game."

How does any college league defeat that mentality? Seriously, if anyone can answer that question you will stand to become a very wealthy man because nobody else has ever figured out quite how to deal with that.

Almost nobody in New York City gives a flying $#%* about Rutgers football whether they are playing South Florida or Michigan. Now, fans of the Scarlet Knights will certainly care more about their playing the Wolverines than they did the Bulls. However, that is a very small number of people on a relative scale.

Now, apply those same principles to Syracuse or Connecticut or whomever else you want.

This whole thing is just incredibly foolish.

(07-07-2013 09:23 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  This whole thing is just incredibly foolish.

Seems like Notre Dame draws big crowds when it plays in pro-sports towns like Chicago, New York, Boston, and Philly.

(07-07-2013 09:23 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  This whole deal is 100 percent cray-cray on nearly every conceivable level. I'm beginning to think that the people orchestrating this sheer idiocy are masterminds in the same way Kim Jong-Il was a military mastermind.

It is positively breathtaking that so many otherwise intelligent people can't ever seem to wrap their heads around this particular issue. Seriously, the arrogance is amazing to the point of it being semi-impressive.

Do you know which league is going to most turn on the denizens of New York City and its metropolitan area?

The NFL.

Then, in order, MLB, the NBA and the NHL.

Then...well, that right there's the rub. There is no fifth option - at least not on anything approaching the level any of these numb skulls are dreaming up.

New York didn't reject Big East football, it rejected college football as a whole. In October, they would much rather talk about Donny Baseball than Johnny Football. That is never going to change regardless of how many banners they hang up inside Yankee Stadium.

That is basically the same problem that all college programs have in pro-centric markets; they are looked at as derivative products and "lesser than" the "real thing."

People say, "Ooo, this weekend is the big LSU/Alabama game." Every one of us recognizes that is as good as it gets in college football. Well, their response to that is likely along the lines of, "That's cool. The very best players on those two teams might one day play in a Giants/Cowboys game."

How does any college league defeat that mentality? Seriously, if anyone can answer that question you will stand to become a very wealthy man because nobody else has ever figured out quite how to deal with that.

Almost nobody in New York City gives a flying $#%* about Rutgers football whether they are playing South Florida or Michigan. Now, fans of the Scarlet Knights will certainly care more about their playing the Wolverines than they did the Bulls. However, that is a very small number of people on a relative scale.

Now, apply those same principles to Syracuse or Connecticut or whomever else you want.

This whole thing is just incredibly foolish.

It's not about displacing the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL. So I just don't understand your condescending lecture/rant at all. Should the BiG not "claim" Chicago since the Bears, Cubs, Bulls, and Blackhawks are more popular than any of their programs?

We all know that in any major metro city in the North and in the West where pro franchises exist college athletics are going to be the next level down.

Maybe Pittsburgh should just give up and forget about major college athletics since the Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins way outdistance the Panthers?

Cheers,
Neil

the ACC wants to rotate MSG into its schedule not commit to a long term deal. The BE and MSG are willing (and have the desire) to make a long term commitment

(07-07-2013 09:23 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  This whole deal is 100 percent cray-cray on nearly every conceivable level. I'm beginning to think that the people orchestrating this sheer idiocy are masterminds in the same way Kim Jong-Il was a military mastermind.

It is positively breathtaking that so many otherwise intelligent people can't ever seem to wrap their heads around this particular issue. Seriously, the arrogance is amazing to the point of it being semi-impressive.

Do you know which league is going to most turn on the denizens of New York City and its metropolitan area?

The NFL.

Then, in order, MLB, the NBA and the NHL.

Then...well, that right there's the rub. There is no fifth option - at least not on anything approaching the level any of these numb skulls are dreaming up.

New York didn't reject Big East football, it rejected college football as a whole. In October, they would much rather talk about Donny Baseball than Johnny Football. That is never going to change regardless of how many banners they hang up inside Yankee Stadium.

That is basically the same problem that all college programs have in pro-centric markets; they are looked at as derivative products and "lesser than" the "real thing."

People say, "Ooo, this weekend is the big LSU/Alabama game." Every one of us recognizes that is as good as it gets in college football. Well, their response to that is likely along the lines of, "That's cool. The very best players on those two teams might one day play in a Giants/Cowboys game."

How does any college league defeat that mentality? Seriously, if anyone can answer that question you will stand to become a very wealthy man because nobody else has ever figured out quite how to deal with that.

Almost nobody in New York City gives a flying $#%* about Rutgers football whether they are playing South Florida or Michigan. Now, fans of the Scarlet Knights will certainly care more about their playing the Wolverines than they did the Bulls. However, that is a very small number of people on a relative scale.

Now, apply those same principles to Syracuse or Connecticut or whomever else you want.

This whole thing is just incredibly foolish.

I'm sorry but you are wrong on so many levels. It's not that they don't care about CFB, it's that there are too many interests for their to be one favorite team.





This is all over the city.

Also Rutgers fan base gets bigger every year, even in Manhattan you see more block R's every year.

(07-07-2013 09:39 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  the ACC wants to rotate MSG into its schedule not commit to a long term deal. The BE and MSG are willing (and have the desire) to make a long term commitment

MSG is indeed taking a flyer on the Big East because they wanted a long term annual commitment that the ACC was unwilling to give them at that time - and may never be willing to give them.

And the new league certainly has some great programs that will attract attention over the next five years. It will be interesting to see where the new league stands from 2018-19 onward.

Still, the new Big East is 5 schools in the northeast and 5 in the midwest. The likely 2 expansion targets are both in the midwest - Dayton and St. Louis.

Meanwhile the ACC is divided between the Northeast and the South Atlantic. The solution could be an every other year tournament for both conferences - MSG/Greensboro for the ACC and MSG/Milwaukee for the BE.

Not sure how TV would handle this since one is ESPN and the other FOX, but both have worked together in the past.

Cheers,
Neil

I wrote something along these lines on the original ESPN.com comment section. NYC will be a B1G FB town. Between RU, PSU, UM, OSU, UMD and the other B1G fans in the NYC metro area, the FB ratings will overwhelm SU. And the ACC really can't claim ND. ND will get their ratings no matter what and it won't be because of their scheduling alliance with the ACC.

ACC BB is another story. SU and ND BB move the dials in NYC. SJU, RU, UConn and SHU have their fair share of fans also. If the ACC is going to make a case that NYC is a ACC BB town, they absolutely need SU and ND to be nationally relevant every year.

(07-07-2013 10:00 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 09:39 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  the ACC wants to rotate MSG into its schedule not commit to a long term deal. The BE and MSG are willing (and have the desire) to make a long term commitment

MSG is indeed taking a flyer on the Big East because they wanted a long term annual commitment that the ACC was unwilling to give them at that time - and may never be willing to give them.

And the new league certainly has some great programs that will attract attention over the next five years. It will be interesting to see where the new league stands from 2018-19 onward.

Still, the new Big East is 5 schools in the northeast and 5 in the midwest. The likely 2 expansion targets are both in the midwest - Dayton and St. Louis.

Meanwhile the ACC is divided between the Northeast and the South Atlantic. The solution could be an every other year tournament for both conferences - MSG/Greensboro for the ACC and MSG/Milwaukee for the BE.

Not sure how TV would handle this since one is ESPN and the other FOX, but both have worked together in the past.

Cheers,
Neil

The Big East will never willing move it's tournament to Milwaukee or any other city. The Big East will never willing help the ACC. Fox will never give ESPN MSG just to "work together". Also, Fox doesn't really have a say in the matter, and it's BBall property backing down to the ACC makes it seem more mid-major.

(07-07-2013 10:06 PM)RutgersMike Wrote:  I wrote something along these lines on the original ESPN.com comment section. NYC will be a B1G FB town. Between RU, PSU, UM, OSU, UMD and the other B1G fans in the NYC metro area, the FB ratings will overwhelm SU. And the ACC really can't claim ND. ND will get their ratings no matter what and it won't be because of their scheduling alliance with the ACC.

ACC BB is another story. SU and ND BB move the dials in NYC. SJU, RU, UConn and SHU have their fair share of fans also. If the ACC is going to make a case that NYC is a ACC BB town, they absolutely need SU and ND to be nationally relevant every year.

THE most popular college bb team in NYC is Duke, and it isn't even close. SU and UConn alternate for 2nd and 3rd, St. John's fourth and UNC fifth.

Cheers,
Neil

(07-07-2013 10:07 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 10:00 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(07-07-2013 09:39 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  the ACC wants to rotate MSG into its schedule not commit to a long term deal. The BE and MSG are willing (and have the desire) to make a long term commitment

MSG is indeed taking a flyer on the Big East because they wanted a long term annual commitment that the ACC was unwilling to give them at that time - and may never be willing to give them.

And the new league certainly has some great programs that will attract attention over the next five years. It will be interesting to see where the new league stands from 2018-19 onward.

Still, the new Big East is 5 schools in the northeast and 5 in the midwest. The likely 2 expansion targets are both in the midwest - Dayton and St. Louis.

Meanwhile the ACC is divided between the Northeast and the South Atlantic. The solution could be an every other year tournament for both conferences - MSG/Greensboro for the ACC and MSG/Milwaukee for the BE.

Not sure how TV would handle this since one is ESPN and the other FOX, but both have worked together in the past.

Cheers,
Neil

The Big East will never willing move it's tournament to Milwaukee or any other city. The Big East will never willing help the ACC. Fox will never give ESPN MSG just to "work together". Also, Fox doesn't really have a say in the matter, and it's BBall property backing down to the ACC makes it seem more mid-major.

Okay. Just remember, I tried having a logical discussion with you, but you turned it into a p!$$!ng contest.

Best of luck. Time will tell.

Cheers,
Neil