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Poor Maryland....literally
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
Where do the cases differ?
08-14-2013 09:01 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
(08-14-2013 07:56 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  
(08-14-2013 06:19 PM)westmc9th Wrote:  Which does that make it any better? Maryland and the Big Ten met for two weeks and that's all it took to dissolve a 59 year relationship. To me it seems if your going to do something that big might wanna take some time. I understand why they didn't though, they didn't want the public (which loved the ACC) to find out and cause an outrage right before the move.

Either way Maryland is basically in the past, the Big Ten's problem now. Looking forward to louisville.

What happens if Maryland can't afford to leave?

They owe/will owe $173,000,000. They could eliminate 1/2 of that with one stroke of the pen. If they stay in the ACC they would get $34,000,000 from the ACC - last years $15,000,000 plus this years $19,000,000. The would not have to pay the exit fee of $52,000,000. That is a total of $86,000,000.

They won't be a full member of the B1G until 2020. I'm guessing they won't be able to do much more than service the debit until then. If the B1G really pays $40,000,000 per year and MD applies half of that to their debt they won't be in the black until ~2030. Lenders have a long memory so they would have to save for years after that to be able to make any physical improvements.

Lots of IFs there and my numbers may be off a bit.

They have signed the B1G GoR and have become a member of the CIC. No turning back now.
08-14-2013 09:07 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
Does Maryland drop big time sports and join the Ivy League? 07-coffee3
08-14-2013 09:46 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
(08-14-2013 09:46 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Does Maryland drop big time sports and join the Ivy League? 07-coffee3

Maryland dropped big time sports 10+ years ago!
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08-14-2013 10:21 PM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
What do think MD's decision on the Big Ten would have been if Loh wasn't in place shoving the move through while hiding behind a nondisclosure, particularly if they had actually done a real study of the financials with open discussions throughout the administration like this articles like these are revealing hadn't been done.

And beyond all of this ridiculous debt, MD was sold on a fantasy revenue projections for the BTN. Fox Sports 1 isn't even going to approach $1 per subscriber, how on earth is the BTN going to get that from NYC and the beltway? It's pie-in-the-sky to think it is going to get what it gets in Michigan and Iowa. MD may not be better off at all financially even in the long run.

What a total cluster that athletic department is. The ACC traded up athletically in every way with Louisville. The only downside was giving up exclusivity to the DC media market.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2013 11:51 PM by CrazyPaco.)
08-14-2013 11:35 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
(08-14-2013 08:06 PM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:   Gansler Pushes Lawsuit Against Maryland For ACC Withdrawal

Maryland Attorney General Doug Gansler is asking the state’s highest court to order that a lawsuit over the University of Maryland’s withdrawal from the Atlantic Coast Conference proceed in a Maryland court.

The attorney general’s office has made the request to the Maryland Court of Appeals.

The attorney general says the Prince George’s County Circuit Court has wrongly decided to hold the case while waiting for the outcome of a separate lawsuit in North Carolina.

Maryland can't win and they know it.
The ACC's lawsuit is brilliantly crafted and the strategy of withholding payments to the Terps has really put the school in a financial bind.
Maryland can either choose a quick death and pay up everything owed or continue their slow agony while everyone in the ACC pretends to be nice to them. Maryland is between the proverbial rock and a hard place.
08-15-2013 07:56 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
These incredible financial problems have to have interfered with UMD's ability to compete on the field. For the ACC to raise its game to match the SEC's, or whoever, we have to have equivalent resources available for coaching salaries, recruiting, etc. Replacing UMD with UL means going from a school hopelessly limited by its debt to a school already competing financially even without the level of TV and bowl money that ACC membership will bring. Syracuse is only a few steps behind UL in this dept.
08-15-2013 09:00 AM
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Lou_C Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
(08-15-2013 09:00 AM)orangefan Wrote:  These incredible financial problems have to have interfered with UMD's ability to compete on the field. For the ACC to raise its game to match the SEC's, or whoever, we have to have equivalent resources available for coaching salaries, recruiting, etc. Replacing UMD with UL means going from a school hopelessly limited by its debt to a school already competing financially even without the level of TV and bowl money that ACC membership will bring. Syracuse is only a few steps behind UL in this dept.

Agreed. They're going to get their heads drummed in most games. They will definitely sell more tickets to opposing fans, but I have a hard time believing their fan base/boosters are going to respond so much better to Big 10 sports.

The Big 10 has been barely ahead of the ACC on the field, and just added a team that was barely competetive in the ACC, and one of the historically worst NCAA sports programs in history.

I don't know, maybe it makes them all more money, but this has the look of Utah/Colorado in the PAC.

But add to that the fact that Nebraska, an all-time great program, has some very fundamental issues that are going to make it hard for them to recapture what they were, and that it's a little uncertain what level Penn State recovers to, and I think Big 10 football is a question mark.

They will always be incredibly rich, and they will always have great brands. But man, if Big 10 football is a stock, I consider it a sell.

Ohio State and Michigan definitely have the name and means to nationally recruit and always will.

I mean, it will definitely change once the numbers even up at the end, but right now the B1G has 2 of ESPN's top 20 20014 classes (not counting ND of course). The ACC has five. And ACC recruiting will only get better if we ever start performing on the field.

Again, the B1G will always have big time money, but unless people are going out to see checkbooks facing off, I do think they face a football problem.
08-15-2013 09:48 AM
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Cardinals Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
(08-15-2013 07:56 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(08-14-2013 08:06 PM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:   Gansler Pushes Lawsuit Against Maryland For ACC Withdrawal

Maryland Attorney General Doug Gansler is asking the state’s highest court to order that a lawsuit over the University of Maryland’s withdrawal from the Atlantic Coast Conference proceed in a Maryland court.

The attorney general’s office has made the request to the Maryland Court of Appeals.

The attorney general says the Prince George’s County Circuit Court has wrongly decided to hold the case while waiting for the outcome of a separate lawsuit in North Carolina.

Maryland can't win and they know it.
The ACC's lawsuit is brilliantly crafted and the strategy of withholding payments to the Terps has really put the school in a financial bind.
Maryland can either choose a quick death and pay up everything owed or continue their slow agony while everyone in the ACC pretends to be nice to them. Maryland is between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

I haven't seen anything in quite a while on the lawsuit. What's its current status? What're people saying? What're the prospects of an ACC win? What makes it "brilliantly crafted"?

I'm curious to know.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2013 10:23 AM by Cardinals.)
08-15-2013 10:21 AM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
(08-15-2013 09:48 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  
(08-15-2013 09:00 AM)orangefan Wrote:  These incredible financial problems have to have interfered with UMD's ability to compete on the field. For the ACC to raise its game to match the SEC's, or whoever, we have to have equivalent resources available for coaching salaries, recruiting, etc. Replacing UMD with UL means going from a school hopelessly limited by its debt to a school already competing financially even without the level of TV and bowl money that ACC membership will bring. Syracuse is only a few steps behind UL in this dept.

Agreed. They're going to get their heads drummed in most games. They will definitely sell more tickets to opposing fans, but I have a hard time believing their fan base/boosters are going to respond so much better to Big 10 sports.

The Big 10 has been barely ahead of the ACC on the field, and just added a team that was barely competetive in the ACC, and one of the historically worst NCAA sports programs in history.

I don't know, maybe it makes them all more money, but this has the look of Utah/Colorado in the PAC.

But add to that the fact that Nebraska, an all-time great program, has some very fundamental issues that are going to make it hard for them to recapture what they were, and that it's a little uncertain what level Penn State recovers to, and I think Big 10 football is a question mark.

They will always be incredibly rich, and they will always have great brands. But man, if Big 10 football is a stock, I consider it a sell.

Ohio State and Michigan definitely have the name and means to nationally recruit and always will.

I mean, it will definitely change once the numbers even up at the end, but right now the B1G has 2 of ESPN's top 20 20014 classes (not counting ND of course). The ACC has five. And ACC recruiting will only get better if we ever start performing on the field.

Again, the B1G will always have big time money, but unless people are going out to see checkbooks facing off, I do think they face a football problem.

Just about the stupidest strategy one could employ is to rely on opposing fans buying tickets to increase revenues. They'll see an attendance bump due to the novelty of new faces, but that will dissipate quickly, especially if they fail to be any more competitive than they have been in the ACC.

Look at their 2014 home schedule...
JMU, TBA, Ohio St, Michigan State, Iowa, Rutgers

They would have played
JMU, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Miami, NC State, Wake

So, is someone going to try to tell me, at least in 2014, that they will being drawing better for the Big Ten if the novelty factor wasn't there? They may not have drawn better regardless.

2015
TBA, Bowling Green, South Florida, Michigan, PSU, Wisconsin, Indiana
TBA, Bowling Green, South Florida, Clemson, Virginia, Syracuse, BC

Big Ten wins the odd years...as long as it isn't an ND at home year. If they get ND at home during one of the off years, which is likely, then they've traded 50 years of tradition along with the well being of their basketball and lax programs for better attendance in football in what is likely a maximum of 2 out of every six years (with the rest being a push or even possibly worse).

This is not a recipe for improving MD finances significantly, and football ticket sales are a primary way to do that, not a few million in conference disburssements to cover increased travel costs and decreased hoops demand. This is a recipe for the B10 for using Maryland to push their brand in the mid-Atlantic. Maryland is d.u.m.b.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2013 11:54 AM by CrazyPaco.)
08-15-2013 11:09 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
(08-15-2013 10:21 AM)Cardinals Wrote:  I haven't seen anything in quite a while on the lawsuit. What's its current status? What're people saying? What're the prospects of an ACC win? What makes it "brilliantly crafted"?

I'm curious to know.

Then you my friend need to visit one of the WVU boards. Aside from the Harvard Law Review, I doubt there are more self proclaimed law experts anywhere in the free world.
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08-15-2013 11:53 AM
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Lou_C Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
Then there's this...

B1G effects on Maryland recruiting

"In the short term, we're seeing some effects, definitely, for Rutgers more so than Maryland," said Adam Friedman, Mid-Atlantic recruiting analyst for Rivals.com.

"If Rutgers wasn't moving to the Big Ten, I don't think you see kids like Kly Hester and Tyler Wiegers committing to Rutgers. It's definitely paying dividends because their move from the Big East to the Big Ten is significant."

The quality of play is an upgrade for Rutgers, but so is the national television exposure in the Big Ten. The Scarlet Knights have a secure spot on Saturdays, as opposed to consistent Thursday and Friday night games.

Rutgers also gets a boost in ditching the troubled Big East, according to Scarlet Nation recruiting reporter Matthew Hladik.

"The first thing [Rutgers coach] Kyle Flood mentioned last year is that they can now sell to the kids stability," Hladik said. "They had always been asked questions about what was going to happen as the Big East was moving toward disintegration or remodeling. Now, Rutgers is in the Big Ten. That's where they're going to be. They're in a good spot for them."

Maryland might not feel the effects so immediately, leaving one solid football conference in the ACC for another. For the Terrapins, the Big Ten's financial security provides immediate relief and can fund facility upgrades later, Friedman said.

"For Maryland, it's not paying dividends right now," Friedman said. "The money situation is going to help them improve facilities and make the school more attractive to recruits down the line.

"Their style of play contrasts to the Big Ten in a big way. They're more focused on skill position guys, so it's going to be a challenge to build up the offensive and defensive lines. It's also going to be cool to watch how they compete with the skill guys they have on the outside."


Great stuff. So appeal-wise to recruits, the move is a wash at best.

But the real benefit will be when they build up facilities, LOL. Never mind they still owe $80M on the current facilities, which are apparently sub-Big 10 level.

It might take them a decade just to get out of the hole. Maryland could be a 25-year project for the Big 10.
08-15-2013 12:06 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
http://www.diamondbackonline.com/news/ca...0f31a.html


Quote:“Don’t expect miracles in the first year or two, but if you look down the track, all along the way, we’re making progress,” Loh said. “We would never have gotten out of this hole if we had stayed in the ACC.”


Did Maryland's commission study the impact of a GoR and possible Network by the ACC when making the decision to move to the B1G? Did they study the impact of adding Notre Dame on future revenue from the ACC?
08-15-2013 01:52 PM
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Lou_C Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
That's a good link too. So Maryland was last in student support in the ACC, not even providing athletes three meals a day.

Loh just comes out and says that finances forced the move (because of terrible mismanagement).

Also funny that the immense new revenue from the Big 10 will allow them to restore all of one of their cut sports. Everyone thought that all the sports would be coming back when they joined the Big 10 cash bonanza.

It's increasingly clear that if they had never tanked the athletic department, it's much much less likely they'd be in the Big 10 now.

I really wonder if the Big 10 realized what a black hole it was getting competitively, and the potential BTN subscribers are still worth it. Notice the part where Big Ten revenues are not to be used for new facilities. Assuming that means they have to actually raise the money for those from boosters. Good luck with that.

They are severely behind the 8-ball. They better hope Edsall and Turgeon work out, because they will never be able to afford to fire them, let alone replace them. They'll go the way of Colorado.
08-15-2013 02:38 PM
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Lou_C Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
I also like this quote too:

“Some teams have been playing for national championships year after year and other teams are doing well enough, but they can do better,” said Athletic Director Kevin Anderson. “That’s what we’re striving for.”

Boy, Big 10, how do you like the lofty goals for your new member? Piss poor teams are "doing well enough" with the grand goal of "doing better."

I don't hate Maryland or anything, or even blame them. It's more about the B1G and the 12" d*** they act like they have, while pulling the ugliest, most desparate whores, and even then only for the money.
08-15-2013 02:41 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
I hated expansion, but honestly, if we were going to expand again, I'd just as soon have had members who weren't going to win many football championships. We added a CCG meaning only 1 per year now. That means a lot longer between them and we already added one super power this round so I'll that enough.

Maybe in time the division trophies themselves will start to matter and make up for fewer conference titles, but I can tell you last year I cared a heck of a lot more for finishing with the best Big Ten record (a traditional championship) than I cared for a divisional trophy (even though that one was official).
08-15-2013 03:28 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
Maryland got caught up in the rumors regarding expansion. They thought for sure that the ACC was going to get decimated and that they were going to get left behind. The move to the B1G was a "reactive" move not a "proactive" move. They showed the leg (market) to the boys (P5) and got picked up.

FSU is a perfect example of making a "proactive" move. They voted down the initial increase in exit fee by the ACC with the addition of ND but sought accurate information. They sought true information from the ACC and the networks. They were ready to walk. They didn't, based on accurate information.

They didn't make a hasty move, and now will benefit from it.

Maryland got caught up in the rumors.

At best, they are paying a lot for making a lateral move!
08-15-2013 03:40 PM
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westmc9th Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
I'm sure Delany, although he would never publicly admit it, mentioned hey join now we may get you Virginia or UNC or Duke here in a couple of years. The first step is for you to leave and the dominos will fall.
08-15-2013 03:45 PM
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Lou_C Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
(08-15-2013 03:40 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Maryland got caught up in the rumors regarding expansion. They thought for sure that the ACC was going to get decimated and that they were going to get left behind. The move to the B1G was a "reactive" move not a "proactive" move. They showed the leg (market) to the boys (P5) and got picked up.

FSU is a perfect example of making a "proactive" move. They voted down the initial increase in exit fee by the ACC with the addition of ND but sought accurate information. They sought true information from the ACC and the networks. They were ready to walk. They didn't, based on accurate information.

They didn't make a hasty move, and now will benefit from it.

Maryland got caught up in the rumors.

At best, they are paying a lot for making a lateral move!

I think they had their eye out for a while, since they were the only ones besides FSU to oppose the $50M exit penalty. They've known they were screwed for a while.

Financially, I don't know if it's a lateral move. EVENTUALLY they will make more money from the Big 10, possibly a lot more. Their fans don't care or support the teams all that much either way, except for lacrosse I guess. I can see them thinking this was the only way out, if your fans just aren't going to care much either way.

But it's about NOTHING but the money for either side, and they are barely able to pretend it is. Maybe academics a little I guess.

But Maryland doesn't even pretend it's good for the sports competition, and is setting expectations incredibly low. They aren't excited about it, Delaney even remarked that they weren't showing the excitement of Rutgers.

They aren't planning to fund at a B1G level for years and years, and will use B1G revenue to service debt rather than improve their sports. Did the B1G anticipat that? Do they care?

It's the most cynical of reallignment moves on behalf of both the conference and the school.
08-15-2013 03:49 PM
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Lou_C Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Poor Maryland....literally
(08-15-2013 03:45 PM)westmc9th Wrote:  I'm sure Delany, although he would never publicly admit it, mentioned hey join now we may get you Virginia or UNC or Duke here in a couple of years. The first step is for you to leave and the dominos will fall.

I suspect as much. I wonder if Maryland had a moment of regret when no one followed them, let alone missed them.

But honestly, I don't think it mattered in the least. They were in a hole, and needed the B1G to get out, and that's all that was going to matter.
08-15-2013 03:50 PM
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