(09-02-2014 10:05 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I vastly prefer pods, but I don't think they are actually really in the thinking. There's nothing preventing pods in 14 team conferences (two pods of 3, two of 4 with crossovers vs. the teams you don't play), but we've never even heard they were considered. I'm not totally sold on the idea the conferences would use them even if they went to 16 (I'm hoping that size would force larger thinking, but wouldn't bet the farm on it).

I would like to think that both common sense and common cents would win out in the event of moving to 16 teams. Two eight team divisions means seven games in division. To stay at 9 game schedules means only two games against the other division. That isn't going to work in the Big Ten. That means a four year period before playing every single team and that does not allow for playing in every stadium. Big Ten officials have gone on the record stating that is an issue for them.

A four division conference with 16 teams means three games in division and then two against every other division each year. That means it is a two year cycle of playing every single team in the 16 team division and in a four year cycle your kids will play At every single stadium in the conference.

The difference is obvious and thus moving to 16 teams has to mean that agreements have been made on passing a rule allowing for having four divisions instead of only being able to have two divisions.

Honestly, I don't see how anyone could lean in the other direction while at the same time looking at the evidence of how big of a difference it will make in having four divisions instead of two.

(08-31-2014 07:15 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  I know everyone believes that Missouri would never leave the SEC...which is probably true.

But what if we woke up tomorrow morning and heard that Missouri was going to be the 15th team in the Big Ten starting on July 1, 2016.

What would happen next?

The Big Ten could wait 9 more months to invite team 16. And the SEC wouldn't necessarily need to replace Mizzou immediately either.

But what in the world would happen next? Let that rattle around a bit...

1) It would start an ugly chain reaction Missouri and Kansas to the Big 10 to reach 16.
2) SEC replaces Missouri with West Virginia.
3) Big 12 would be at 8. Adds BYU and Colorado State to get back to 10.

(09-02-2014 10:05 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I vastly prefer pods, but I don't think they are actually really in the thinking. There's nothing preventing pods in 14 team conferences (two pods of 3, two of 4 with crossovers vs. the teams you don't play), but we've never even heard they were considered. I'm not totally sold on the idea the conferences would use them even if they went to 16 (I'm hoping that size would force larger thinking, but wouldn't bet the farm on it).

Let's take the following pods:

Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State
Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State

Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern
Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota

That's what the pods would likely look like. Assume the pods change every two years. So two years the Penn State play the Nebraska pod and then switch to the Illinois pod for the next two years. Ideally, fans wouldn't mind seeing different opponents every two years but, as we've come to know, season ticket holders complain if there aren't certain programs on the schedule. With so much money on the line fans become more demanding. Then there's the differences in scheduling philosophies (scheduling for wins vs scheduling attractive opponents). The issue with pods in a fourteen-member conference is those differences can create complications, both foreseen and unforeseen.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it. Playing an Illinois or a Purdue would be more convenient after playing Wisky and Nebby in consecutive seasons. I just don't think season ticket holders would share the same opinion.

I believe when all is said and done in 8-10 years, Kansas will be in the B10.

I used to think Mizzou would follow, but given their SEC success, I doubt it.

Most likely is SEC adds OU and OSU.

P12 becomes P16 with rest of worthy B12.

Mountain West or AAC gets the remains.

I do think KU will be in the big 10 in a few years but not sure who else they get paired with since it will be open bidding. I'm sure the big 10 would have open invites to OU, Texas and Missouri to pair with KU but I could see the 4 pack of texas, texas tech, OU and OK state shop themselves either to the pac 12 or sec. I think the first thing to go with all hell breaks loose is the suppose cap at 16 members but if logic was going to prevail with that cap i think you would have:

big 10: KU + Missouri
Pac12: Texas, Texas Tech, OU, Ok state
SEC: WVU -
ACC: Uconn

Thus, you would have 6 members of the current big 12 finding homes with tcu, baylor, kan state and iowa state either joining up with the aac/mwc or use the shell of the big 12 to form a league with the best of the mwc and AAC + byu, could form a massive league of all school's.

I think 4X16 symmetry went out the window when the B1G passed on Mizzou. The next most symmetric, geographically and/or historically pleasing arrangement I can thing of is:

B1G (18)
- West: Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Minn, Wisc, NW
- Central: Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, MSU, Michigan, OSU
- East: PSU, Rutgers, UMD, UNC, UVA, Duke
9 game conference schedule: 5 games in pod + 2 games versus each other pod

SEC (16)
- West: A&M, LSU, Mizzou, Arkansas
- Central: Miss, MSU, Alabama, Auburn
- Border: Tennessee, Vandy,Kentucky, VT
- Sourth: S Carolina, NC State, Georgia, Florida
9 game conference schedule: 3 in pod plus 2 versus each other pod.

PAC (16)
- NW: Oregon, OSU, WSU, UW
- Cali: Furd, Cal, USC, UCLA
- SW: ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado
- Plains: TTU, UT, OSU, OU
9 game conference schedule: 3 in pod plus 2 versus each other pod.

BigXII/ACC/BigEast (18)
- West: ISU, KSU, BYU, TCU, Baylor, Houston
- Atlantic: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, WF, BC
- East: UCONN, Cinci, L'ville, Pitt, Syracue, WV
9 game conference schedule: 5 games in pod + 2 games versus each other pod

(09-03-2014 01:11 PM)bluesox Wrote:  I do think KU will be in the big 10 in a few years but not sure who else they get paired with since it will be open bidding. I'm sure the big 10 would have open invites to OU, Texas and Missouri to pair with KU but I could see the 4 pack of texas, texas tech, OU and OK state shop themselves either to the pac 12 or sec. I think the first thing to go with all hell breaks loose is the suppose cap at 16 members but if logic was going to prevail with that cap i think you would have:

big 10: KU + Missouri
Pac12: Texas, Texas Tech, OU, Ok state
SEC: WVU -
ACC: Uconn

Thus, you would have 6 members of the current big 12 finding homes with tcu, baylor, kan state and iowa state either joining up with the aac/mwc or use the shell of the big 12 to form a league with the best of the mwc and AAC + byu, could form a massive league of all school's.

The SEC will never invite West Virginia. I say never, and of course I mean unless forced to by apocalyptic scenarios. West Virginia has the following against it:
1) Tier 3 institution (SEC wants to improve academic standing)
2) Low population base/small market
3) Declining football prowess and basketball prowess (of course this could change this year).

SEC will "probably" not invite OK State, and OK seems to want to avoid the SEC as well. In the case of expansion where BIG moves first and say gets Kansas and Virginia, I could see SEC going for V Tech and one of UNC/NC State.

I am like everyone in my love of expansion theories (my own includes a 20 team SEC with Duke, UNC, one of Virginia and Tech, Florida S, Kansas and OK) but lets try to be realistic. One thing we learned from the last go around is that massive shifts don't happen all at once - PAC 16 failed and a few schools shifted. The same thing would be true for a next go around:

Big 10: Virginia and Kansas
Pac 16: Texas/Tech, OK/State
SEC: UNC and Virginia Tech
ACC: West Virginia, Cincy, UConn
AAC: Iowa St/TCU and/or UMass/Army
MWC: Baylor/Kansas State

Another long period of stability before someone considered going to 18 - 3 pods of 6 with a wildcard.

(09-03-2014 01:11 PM)bluesox Wrote:  I do think KU will be in the big 10 in a few years but not sure who else they get paired with since it will be open bidding. I'm sure the big 10 would have open invites to OU, Texas and Missouri to pair with KU but I could see the 4 pack of texas, texas tech, OU and OK state shop themselves either to the pac 12 or sec. I think the first thing to go with all hell breaks loose is the suppose cap at 16 members but if logic was going to prevail with that cap i think you would have:

big 10: KU + Missouri
Pac12: Texas, Texas Tech, OU, Ok state
SEC: WVU -
ACC: Uconn

Thus, you would have 6 members of the current big 12 finding homes with tcu, baylor, kan state and iowa state either joining up with the aac/mwc or use the shell of the big 12 to form a league with the best of the mwc and AAC + byu, could form a massive league of all school's.

Delaney and the B1G already went fishing and jerked the worm out of Mizzou's mouth once. If you know anything about the folks in Missouri, you would know this is not ever going to happen again. If you want to argue academics as a reason, I will argue this. Missouri was an excellent institution in the Big XII. It is a fine institution in the SEC now, and needs no help from the B1G.

(09-04-2014 12:53 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(09-03-2014 01:11 PM)bluesox Wrote:  I do think KU will be in the big 10 in a few years but not sure who else they get paired with since it will be open bidding. I'm sure the big 10 would have open invites to OU, Texas and Missouri to pair with KU but I could see the 4 pack of texas, texas tech, OU and OK state shop themselves either to the pac 12 or sec. I think the first thing to go with all hell breaks loose is the suppose cap at 16 members but if logic was going to prevail with that cap i think you would have:

big 10: KU + Missouri
Pac12: Texas, Texas Tech, OU, Ok state
SEC: WVU -
ACC: Uconn

Thus, you would have 6 members of the current big 12 finding homes with tcu, baylor, kan state and iowa state either joining up with the aac/mwc or use the shell of the big 12 to form a league with the best of the mwc and AAC + byu, could form a massive league of all school's.

Delaney and the B1G already went fishing and jerked the worm out of Mizzou's mouth once. If you know anything about the folks in Missouri, you would know this is not ever going to happen again. If you want to argue academics as a reason, I will argue this. Missouri was an excellent institution in the Big XII. It is a fine institution in the SEC now, and needs no help from the B1G.

Despite whatever feelings may have lingered from the initial B1G talks, I could have perhaps seen Missouri change course and choose B1G membership if it had been offered prior to their officially joining the SEC. Now that they have, I don't think that they're going to leave unless something truly extraordinary were to happen.

(09-03-2014 07:22 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  I think 4X16 symmetry went out the window when the B1G passed on Mizzou. The next most symmetric, geographically and/or historically pleasing arrangement I can thing of is:

B1G (18)
- West: Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Minn, Wisc, NW
- Central: Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, MSU, Michigan, OSU
- East: PSU, Rutgers, UMD, UNC, UVA, Duke
9 game conference schedule: 5 games in pod + 2 games versus each other pod

SEC (16)
- West: A&M, LSU, Mizzou, Arkansas
- Central: Miss, MSU, Alabama, Auburn
- Border: Tennessee, Vandy,Kentucky, VT
- Sourth: S Carolina, NC State, Georgia, Florida
9 game conference schedule: 3 in pod plus 2 versus each other pod.

PAC (16)
- NW: Oregon, OSU, WSU, UW
- Cali: Furd, Cal, USC, UCLA
- SW: ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado
- Plains: TTU, UT, OSU, OU
9 game conference schedule: 3 in pod plus 2 versus each other pod.

BigXII/ACC/BigEast (18)
- West: ISU, KSU, BYU, TCU, Baylor, Houston
- Atlantic: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, WF, BC
- East: UCONN, Cinci, L'ville, Pitt, Syracue, WV
9 game conference schedule: 5 games in pod + 2 games versus each other pod

While I don't think this scenario would pan out I must admit it's the most intriguing of the realignment scenarios I've read so far.

why do people keep assuming Mizzou and Kansas to the B1G? With the conference already at 14, I think Delany only will be looking to add the biggest names or high impact media areas - targetting Texas, Virginia, UNC, Duke, FSU, Florida and maybe Oklahoma. I don't think they'd look to expand unless its one of them.

Quote:Delaney and the B1G already went fishing and jerked the worm out of Mizzou's mouth once. If you know anything about the folks in Missouri, you would know this is not ever going to happen again. If you want to argue academics as a reason, I will argue this. Missouri was an excellent institution in the Big XII. It is a fine institution in the SEC now, and needs no help from the B1G.

This is definitely true. The backlash from fans and donors at this point would be huge if anyone in the administration tried to leave the SEC. Besides from what I understand the way things were handled the last time Mizzou was in talks with the BIG it's safe to say that bridge is burned.

Mizzou is also fully invested in the SEC. Not only the athletics but the SECN and SECU as well. We are currently updating our facilities to be more competitive in this league, donations are up, and Mizzou has set another enrollment record this year while raising our average ACT score for incoming freshman.

For facilities we just finished the two year first phase of renovations to our football stadium (new deck and premium seating on the east side, moved the hill in the north endzone closer to the field, installed new lights, and renovated the suits on the west side), we are going to build a new indoor football practice facility, turn our existing indoor facility into an indoor track and field, build a small arena for volleyball, wrestling, and some womens bball games, add a new center scoreboard to Mizzou Arena, tear down the Hearnes Center, build a new softball stadium, and add a new parking lot for more parking and tailgating space.

(09-04-2014 11:08 PM)AntiG Wrote:  why do people keep assuming Mizzou and Kansas to the B1G? With the conference already at 14, I think Delany only will be looking to add the biggest names or high impact media areas - targetting Texas, Virginia, UNC, Duke, FSU, Florida and maybe Oklahoma. I don't think they'd look to expand unless its one of them.

I could be wrong but I think both the SEC and BIG at this point want to get into North Carolina and Virginia for expansion.

Both are populated states that would be great additions for their respective networks. North Carolina is now the 10th most populated state with 9,848,060 people and Virginia is now the 12th with 8,260,405 people.

Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Virginia, and Virginia Tech are all very good academically as well. Question is will any of those schools want to leave the ACC for the BIG or SEC when their GOR is up?

I agree MU is not going to the B1G any time soon, if ever. Maybe if they start to struggle in the SEC and lose support for it, then maybe, in a couple decades, they might consider it, but thus far their move is a success and they feel wanted. Plus, MU mega donors pushed this move and no way they are turning around to go to the B1G and alienating that crowd.

For the B1G, they have a part of StL with Illinois and taking KU would give them the same for KC (and NU has a small piece of KC). MU is not vital for their future expansion in the west.

The white whale for the B1G (and PAC) is Texas, not ND, as so many suggest. Texas is 2-3 times more valuable to them due to the B1GN, plus TX recruiting exposure. However, Texas is an unlikely land for the B1G due to the Tech problem and wanting to keep it's Texas ties strong. There are also the colder weather worries, but those can be scheduled around. Texas is not impossible for the B1G, because Texas fits the B1G mold very well. The B1G would have to bend a bit though to take a school (TTU) that academically is well below the B1G's standards. Maybe Rice would be a better compromise. If the B1G ever takes KU and OU, they will make a strong push for Texas.

(09-05-2014 12:06 AM)STLfan Wrote:  

(09-04-2014 11:08 PM)AntiG Wrote:  why do people keep assuming Mizzou and Kansas to the B1G? With the conference already at 14, I think Delany only will be looking to add the biggest names or high impact media areas - targetting Texas, Virginia, UNC, Duke, FSU, Florida and maybe Oklahoma. I don't think they'd look to expand unless its one of them.

I could be wrong but I think both the SEC and BIG at this point want to get into North Carolina and Virginia for expansion.

Both are populated states that would be great additions for their respective networks. North Carolina is now the 10th most populated state with 9,848,060 people and Virginia is now the 12th with 8,260,405 people.

Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Virginia, and Virginia Tech are all very good academically as well. Question is will any of those schools want to leave the ACC for the BIG or SEC when their GOR is up?

Depends on how much more money the SEC and B1G are making than the ACC and if the new ACC contract offer at that time will help eliminate that gap or if they would still lag well behind. A decade of much less money than competitor schools can be lived through, but multiple decades would be hard to recover from, especially with state subsidies being reduced. Same goes for the B12 when the time comes.

(09-04-2014 09:50 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(09-03-2014 07:22 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  B1G (18)
- West: Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Minn, Wisc, NW
- Central: Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, MSU, Michigan, OSU
- East: PSU, Rutgers, UMD, UNC, UVA, Duke
9 game conference schedule: 5 games in pod + 2 games versus each other pod

SEC (16)
- West: A&M, LSU, Mizzou, Arkansas
- Central: Miss, MSU, Alabama, Auburn
- Border: Tennessee, Vandy,Kentucky, VT
- Sourth: S Carolina, NC State, Georgia, Florida
9 game conference schedule: 3 in pod plus 2 versus each other pod.

PAC (16)
- NW: Oregon, OSU, WSU, UW
- Cali: Furd, Cal, USC, UCLA
- SW: ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado
- Plains: TTU, UT, OSU, OU
9 game conference schedule: 3 in pod plus 2 versus each other pod.

BigXII/ACC/BigEast (18)
- West: ISU, KSU, BYU, TCU, Baylor, Houston
- Atlantic: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, WF, BC
- East: UCONN, Cinci, L'ville, Pitt, Syracue, WV
9 game conference schedule: 5 games in pod + 2 games versus each other pod

While I don't think this scenario would pan out I must admit it's the most intriguing of the realignment scenarios I've read so far.

Thanks. I think the BigXII/ACC/BigEast leftover conference is sort of a fun one with lots of historic rivals and tight geography preserved and the loss of VA sort of minimized. I wasn't sure if SDSU might not be a better TV addition for the western division if BYU/SDSU could collectively deliver CA/UT/AZ/NV/ID markets. It also works for a nice 18 game basketball scedule whether the conference is 16 or 18 teams (home and away with one standing rival for the 18 team conferences and home and away with three podmates for the 16 team conferences).

(09-05-2014 01:34 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(09-04-2014 09:50 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  B1G (18)
- West: Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Minn, Wisc, NW
- Central: Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, MSU, Michigan, OSU
- East: PSU, Rutgers, UMD, UNC, UVA, Duke
9 game conference schedule: 5 games in pod + 2 games versus each other pod

SEC (16)
- West: A&M, LSU, Mizzou, Arkansas
- Central: Miss, MSU, Alabama, Auburn
- Border: Tennessee, Vandy,Kentucky, VT
- Sourth: S Carolina, NC State, Georgia, Florida
9 game conference schedule: 3 in pod plus 2 versus each other pod.

PAC (16)
- NW: Oregon, OSU, WSU, UW
- Cali: Furd, Cal, USC, UCLA
- SW: ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado
- Plains: TTU, UT, OSU, OU
9 game conference schedule: 3 in pod plus 2 versus each other pod.

BigXII/ACC/BigEast (18)
- West: ISU, KSU, BYU, TCU, Baylor, Houston
- Atlantic: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, WF, BC
- East: UCONN, Cinci, L'ville, Pitt, Syracue, WV
9 game conference schedule: 5 games in pod + 2 games versus each other pod

While I don't think this scenario would pan out I must admit it's the most intriguing of the realignment scenarios I've read so far.

Thanks. I think the BigXII/ACC/BigEast leftover conference is sort of a fun one with lots of historic rivals and tight geography preserved and the loss of VA sort of minimized. I wasn't sure if SDSU might not be a better TV addition for the western division if BYU/SDSU could collectively deliver CA/UT/AZ/NV/ID markets. It also works for a nice 18 game basketball scedule whether the conference is 16 or 18 teams (home and away with one standing rival for the 18 team conferences and home and away with three podmates for the 16 team conferences).
[/quote]

Better idea:

Miami, GT, FSU, Clemson, Pitt, SU, BC, WVU, and UL as all sports, with UCONN* and ND** as non-football.

*With an understanding that UCONN will never play football.
**with a scheduling alliance (5 games) that involves Pitt as a perm and all the other teams every other year.

The rest can join together and add SMU and possibly Rice and/or Tulane to form the best non-power conference.