(12-22-2013 12:37 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The Unions are responsible FOR the middle class and with their demise we are seeing the shrinking of the middle class. Direct correlation. That the right blames the Unions is perverse and ironic at the same time.

My God you pro-union guys are out of your ******* minds.

(12-22-2013 02:52 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 12:37 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The Unions are responsible FOR the middle class and with their demise we are seeing the shrinking of the middle class. Direct correlation. That the right blames the Unions is perverse and ironic at the same time.

My God you pro-union guys are out of your ******* minds.

You are definitely a blundering idiot. But I do have to make one slight change to his post. I would say they are MOSTLY responsible because there are other things that helped get the country there-but it was largely unions.

The unions sowed the seeds of their own demise by pricing American workers out of the market.

Did they do a lot to create the middle class? Sure, but they've helped to kill it, too.

(12-22-2013 03:35 PM)Smaug Wrote:  The unions sowed the seeds of their own demise by pricing American workers out of the market.

Did they do a lot to create the middle class? Sure, but they've helped to kill it, too.

Some unions got greedy and many corps got greedy.

We really need to rebuild the farming class in america. Raising and bringing to market emu,fish,and rabbit would help build small family run farms. You don't need a lot of land for any of these.

(12-22-2013 02:45 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 02:08 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 02:32 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Taking a quick glance around my office at work:

So out of 7 items, only one was made in the US and another was made in the US w/ foreign made components.

That is why the wage gap is continuing to widen. We don't manufacture goods or anything anymore. The only thing really keeping the US afloat right now is the wealth built up from a generation before (credit), and the rise of the oil/natty gas industry. I find it disingenuous that only Bush gets the blame when the problems started in the 70's. There has been things the past 20 years that helped speed up the process like NAFTA and the trade treaty w/ China.

Redistribution of wealth, upwards or downwards, is not the solution. It's theft.

Speak for yourself on the manufacturing though. I work like a dog to make goods in the USA. There are a ton of people who make things for me here. Most of it is metal and assembled goods, with other niches mixed in. That's our national specialty - high tolerance, bad to the freeking bone, made in the US of a, can withstand a nuclear blast stuff. Nobody will ever top us there.

China makes rubber and plastic injection parts well. Some things are better done there, you have to admit. Rubber manufacturing is a nasty process.

If US manufactures wise up, we can just buy our tooling there and make the actual parts here. That's where the ticket is. Our tooling is 7-10 times the cost. Most of you have no clue what it costs to produce a good.




Machinery/tooling ONLY for items (US made cost):

Plastic cover part - $150k-$400k injection molding machine, $10k tooing per part

Automotive support brace weldment - $250k-$750k laser jet, no tooling

exhaust tubing - $100k mandrel bender, $5k per part tooling

clutch disks - $1 million stamping machine, $1 million induction bonding machines, $2 million sizing presses, $5 million paper treatment (EPA), 5 acre facility

wheels - $200k aluminum casting pourers, $30k per wheel tooling, $190k 5 axis mill


forged parts - $30k in tooling per part, 190k 5 axis mill, $2 million forging press

Standard machined part - $190k horizontal mill, $0 - $5k per part tooling


In China, cut the tooling costs by 75%. Most people who do this for a living have 4-5 of the above machines to meet demand. The profit margin is typically 3-8%, which isn't raping anyone.

You need to wear rubbers so we don't have any more of you Jesus freaks running around this country bringing it down.

What? I didn't even mention Jesus, though since you mention it he had a job.

What a retard. This post deserves a few days off.