(01-14-2014 12:15 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  I agree with everything in your post, but keep in mind this has been going on for several months now. A certain amount of discovery must have taken place, most likely a great deal of written discovery. Maybe Maryland has found something. Depositions are next.

I agree this makes a settlement more likely, especially since ESPN's involvement was mentioned, but if Maryland has a smoking gun then the existence of the ACC is at stake. Unlikely it goes that far, I know, and Maryland would have to win, but it is a threat to the conference itself.

IMHO, I don't think that the ACC existence is at stake unless Maryland got something big on ESPN and that would be one thing:

Coullision

If they are telling conferences to do this or that for their benifit alone of to gang up on any conference that they want to pic apart or break up, then you got a major Federal case that would happen.

If it ever got to that point(and trust me, ESPN/Disney want no part of that case because it is a guarenteed loss for them), then every carrier of theirs will start to revisit the subscriber fees, or could have the possibility to have a legal out of their agreement.

(01-14-2014 12:30 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:22 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  a threat to the conference? Ridiculous.

If the current exit terms are voided...

Ridiculous. This is solely about MD trying to retrieve some of their money.

No one is leaving the ACC. The idea that it is a threat to the existence or membership of the ACC is an absolute preposterous notion emanating straight from the bowels of kookdumb where the Dudes and Ethridges reside. In any case, the ACC still has the Grant of Rights on top of the 3X operational expense exit fee, even if the exit fee had legal problems beyond a date of consent/implementation.

(01-14-2014 12:22 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:15 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:10 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  I never expected it to happen, but this probably puts the nail in the coffin for the ACC homers who expected the 50M exit fee to be paid in full.

I put the chances of a mutual walk-away with Maryland never receiving the withheld funds from this season as the most likely outcome at this point.

That's the whole point of this counterclaim. Maryland doesn't seriously believe that it's going to receive $157 million, just as the ACC never seriously believed that it was going to receive the full $50 million exit fee (or at least they should have never believed that). This is about Maryland having leverage in saying that the ACC isn't just going to have a clear path to receive all of the exit fees, so they force the ACC back to the negotiating table.

As with every single other realignment-related lawsuit, no one involved (the schools, conferences, TV networks) want anything to do with these cases going to discovery where more info gets made public. Every school that has left a conference has publicly claimed that they owe nothing. Every conference that has had a school leave has publicly claimed that they owe everything. No one has a clear moral argument on either side - fans ultimately just pick the side that benefits their favorite school the most (see the multitude of schools that are on one side of litigation one year and then the subject of the same type of litigation the next year in just this round of realignment). At the end of the day, it's in the best interests of everyone to meet in the middle and move on.

I agree with everything in your post, but keep in mind this has been going on for several months now. A certain amount of discovery must have taken place, most likely a great deal of written discovery. Maybe Maryland has found something. Depositions are next.

I agree this makes a settlement more likely, especially since ESPN's involvement was mentioned, but if Maryland has a smoking gun then the existence of the ACC is at stake. Unlikely it goes that far, I know, and Maryland would have to win, but it is a threat to the conference itself.

how is that a threat to the conference? Ridiculous.

How would the ACC pay $157 million, plus punitive damages? Why would UNC and FSU want to stay around for that when the SEC and the B1G are rolling in it. I'm not saying that will happen, I think it is very unlikely, but if it did turn out the lights because the party is over.

Seems like a giant stretch.
I'm sure they provided tv deal forecasts etc just like the B10 network or P12 network did when they poached the b12,BE, acc.
And why would espn pick the acc to collude with?

(01-14-2014 12:37 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:30 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:22 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  a threat to the conference? Ridiculous.

If the current exit terms are voided...

Ridiculous. This is solely about MD trying to retrieve some of their money.

No one is leaving the ACC. The idea that it is a threat to the existence or membership of the ACC is an absolute preposterous notion emanating straight from the bowels of kookdumb where the Dudes and Ethridges reside. In any case, the ACC still has the Grant of Rights on top of the 3X operational expense exit fee, even if the exit fee had legal problems beyond a date of consent/implementation.

If the ACC's governing documents were violated when establishing immediately a $52 million exit fee because such changes must take place the following year in July, then the same applies to the grant of rights because they also started immediately. Therefore, there would be nothing preventing a school from leaving if it wanted if the court ruled the exit fee and grant of rights void.

As Frank alluded to, this is just a leverage move. None of these cases are ever going to see the light of day in the courtroom. It's just legal jostling for position.

(01-14-2014 12:38 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:22 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:15 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:10 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  I never expected it to happen, but this probably puts the nail in the coffin for the ACC homers who expected the 50M exit fee to be paid in full.

I put the chances of a mutual walk-away with Maryland never receiving the withheld funds from this season as the most likely outcome at this point.

That's the whole point of this counterclaim. Maryland doesn't seriously believe that it's going to receive $157 million, just as the ACC never seriously believed that it was going to receive the full $50 million exit fee (or at least they should have never believed that). This is about Maryland having leverage in saying that the ACC isn't just going to have a clear path to receive all of the exit fees, so they force the ACC back to the negotiating table.

As with every single other realignment-related lawsuit, no one involved (the schools, conferences, TV networks) want anything to do with these cases going to discovery where more info gets made public. Every school that has left a conference has publicly claimed that they owe nothing. Every conference that has had a school leave has publicly claimed that they owe everything. No one has a clear moral argument on either side - fans ultimately just pick the side that benefits their favorite school the most (see the multitude of schools that are on one side of litigation one year and then the subject of the same type of litigation the next year in just this round of realignment). At the end of the day, it's in the best interests of everyone to meet in the middle and move on.

I agree with everything in your post, but keep in mind this has been going on for several months now. A certain amount of discovery must have taken place, most likely a great deal of written discovery. Maybe Maryland has found something. Depositions are next.

I agree this makes a settlement more likely, especially since ESPN's involvement was mentioned, but if Maryland has a smoking gun then the existence of the ACC is at stake. Unlikely it goes that far, I know, and Maryland would have to win, but it is a threat to the conference itself.

how is that a threat to the conference? Ridiculous.

How would the ACC pay $157 million, plus punitive damages? Why would UNC and FSU want to stay around for that when the SEC and the B1G are rolling in it. I'm not saying that will happen, I think it is very unlikely, but if it did turn out the lights because the party is over.

There is as much chance of the MD being awarded $157m from this suit from the ACC as there is for the kook dudes to get a single prediction right.

(01-14-2014 12:47 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:37 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:30 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:22 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  a threat to the conference? Ridiculous.

If the current exit terms are voided...

Ridiculous. This is solely about MD trying to retrieve some of their money.

No one is leaving the ACC. The idea that it is a threat to the existence or membership of the ACC is an absolute preposterous notion emanating straight from the bowels of kookdumb where the Dudes and Ethridges reside. In any case, the ACC still has the Grant of Rights on top of the 3X operational expense exit fee, even if the exit fee had legal problems beyond a date of consent/implementation.

If the ACC's governing documents were violated when establishing immediately a $52 million exit fee because such changes must take place the following year in July, then the same applies to the grant of rights because they also started immediately. Therefore, there would be nothing preventing a school from leaving if it wanted if the court ruled the exit fee and grant of rights void.

Yep, you've just signed yourself up in league with the dudes. Congrats.

(01-14-2014 12:05 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:10 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  I never expected it to happen, but this probably puts the nail in the coffin for the ACC homers who expected the 50M exit fee to be paid in full.

I put the chances of a mutual walk-away with Maryland never receiving the withheld funds from this season as the most likely outcome at this point.

That's the whole point of this counterclaim. Maryland doesn't seriously believe that it's going to receive $157 million, just as the ACC never seriously believed that it was going to receive the full $50 million exit fee (or at least they should have never believed that). This is about Maryland having leverage in saying that the ACC isn't just going to have a clear path to receive all of the exit fees, so they force the ACC back to the negotiating table.

As with every single other realignment-related lawsuit, no one involved (the schools, conferences, TV networks) want anything to do with these cases going to discovery where more info gets made public. Every school that has left a conference has publicly claimed that they owe nothing. Every conference that has had a school leave has publicly claimed that they owe everything. No one has a clear moral argument on either side - fans ultimately just pick the side that benefits their favorite school the most (see the multitude of schools that are on one side of litigation one year and then the subject of the same type of litigation the next year in just this round of realignment). At the end of the day, it's in the best interests of everyone to meet in the middle and move on.

Hey Frank! I would like to say something. It might not be worth much since you labeled me this board's dumbest poster when I said ACC should invite Penn State and Rutgers. But the one thing I have learned in the last few years of realignment is to expect the unexpected and nothing should really be considered absurd.

Rutgers doesn't play into this. This is about what occurred *prior* to Maryland leaving. So, sure the ACC might have tried to ask Penn State and someone else (i.e. Northwestern) to leave the Big Ten. BFD. That happens all of the time among lots of different schools in lots of different conferences. The only thing that matters is whether the interest is actually reciprocated. What's more instructive is that the ACC asked and then swiftly got punched back in the face by the Big Ten raiding one of its original members. That shows who actually has the power here.

I thought Maryland didn't even sign the $50m thing. It was proposed, all but 2 signed, and it immediately goes into effect...? That never made sense to me. Plus the $50 million amount was pulled out of thin air anyway.

The danger to the ACC is if Maryland shows a painless way forward, then Ga Tech, Virginia and others may follow their path to the B1G... plus the SEC will start sniffing around again. Othewise, the ACC dragging this out makes no sense.

(01-14-2014 12:13 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  It would make my day to see ESPiN get dragged into a bottomless pit of judicial discovery.

But I doubt it will ever happen.

(01-14-2014 12:49 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:47 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:37 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:30 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:22 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  a threat to the conference? Ridiculous.

If the current exit terms are voided...

Ridiculous. This is solely about MD trying to retrieve some of their money.

No one is leaving the ACC. The idea that it is a threat to the existence or membership of the ACC is an absolute preposterous notion emanating straight from the bowels of kookdumb where the Dudes and Ethridges reside. In any case, the ACC still has the Grant of Rights on top of the 3X operational expense exit fee, even if the exit fee had legal problems beyond a date of consent/implementation.

If the ACC's governing documents were violated when establishing immediately a $52 million exit fee because such changes must take place the following year in July, then the same applies to the grant of rights because they also started immediately. Therefore, there would be nothing preventing a school from leaving if it wanted if the court ruled the exit fee and grant of rights void.

Yep, you've just signed yourself up in league with the dudes. Congrats.

I'm just saying the same allegations mentioned in Maryland's original answer. If a term is voided what do think is left?

GOR is separate, completely. No one else is leaving the ACC, exit fee or not. Get over it.


Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 1m
So Maryland files suit vs. ACC. Next it sues Military Bowl because Terps couldn't beat Marshall

no shame in asking. and how about the ACC punching the B1G with the GOR? in essence, that is UNC, UVa, Duke, GT and whoever else telling the B1G "you're not all that". goes both ways. just sayin'.

(01-14-2014 12:49 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 12:05 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:10 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  I never expected it to happen, but this probably puts the nail in the coffin for the ACC homers who expected the 50M exit fee to be paid in full.

I put the chances of a mutual walk-away with Maryland never receiving the withheld funds from this season as the most likely outcome at this point.

That's the whole point of this counterclaim. Maryland doesn't seriously believe that it's going to receive $157 million, just as the ACC never seriously believed that it was going to receive the full $50 million exit fee (or at least they should have never believed that). This is about Maryland having leverage in saying that the ACC isn't just going to have a clear path to receive all of the exit fees, so they force the ACC back to the negotiating table.

As with every single other realignment-related lawsuit, no one involved (the schools, conferences, TV networks) want anything to do with these cases going to discovery where more info gets made public. Every school that has left a conference has publicly claimed that they owe nothing. Every conference that has had a school leave has publicly claimed that they owe everything. No one has a clear moral argument on either side - fans ultimately just pick the side that benefits their favorite school the most (see the multitude of schools that are on one side of litigation one year and then the subject of the same type of litigation the next year in just this round of realignment). At the end of the day, it's in the best interests of everyone to meet in the middle and move on.

Hey Frank! I would like to say something. It might not be worth much since you labeled me this board's dumbest poster when I said ACC should invite Penn State and Rutgers. But the one thing I have learned in the last few years of realignment is to expect the unexpected and nothing should really be considered absurd.

Rutgers doesn't play into this. This is about what occurred *prior* to Maryland leaving. So, sure the ACC might have tried to ask Penn State and someone else (i.e. Northwestern) to leave the Big Ten. BFD. That happens all of the time among lots of different schools in lots of different conferences. The only thing that matters is whether the interest is actually reciprocated. What's more instructive is that the ACC asked and then swiftly got punched back in the face by the Big Ten raiding one of its original members. That shows who actually has the power here.

(01-14-2014 12:57 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  GOR is separate, completely. No one else is leaving the ACC, exit fee or not. Get over it.


Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 1m
So Maryland files suit vs. ACC. Next it sues Military Bowl because Terps couldn't beat Marshall

My point is if the exit fee is void because it took place immediately, then the grant of rights would likely also be void for the same reason unless the governing documents were amended, which is a possibility.

Brett works for ESPN and the ACC is an ESPN property.

(01-14-2014 12:49 PM)billyjack Wrote:  I thought Maryland didn't even sign the $50m thing. It was proposed, all but 2 signed, and it immediately goes into effect…?

I think so, yes.

Quote:That never made sense to me. Plus the $50 million amount was pulled out of thin air anyway.

Okay.

Quote:The danger to the ACC is if Maryland shows a painless way forward, then Ga Tech, Virginia and others may follow their path to the B1G... plus the SEC will start sniffing around again.

Agreed.

But that is a "danger" not only to the ACC, but to every NCAA conference in the country except for SEC, B1G, and PAC12. If member-institutions can just pack up and leave whenever they feel like it, the chaos of the last 10-12 years will seem like a church picnic compared to what will come over the horizon.

(01-14-2014 01:00 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  no shame in asking. and how about the ACC punching the B1G with the GOR? in essence, that is UNC, UVa, Duke, GT and whoever else telling the B1G "you're not all that". goes both ways. just sayin'.

Getting a GOR in place was just common sense (just as it was the case with the Big 12). The Big Ten literally invented the GOR - they have had it in place since the 1980s. I've been pretty upfront in stating that I thought that the ACC was stronger than what a lot of Big Ten fans believed and didn't think that UVA and UNC were coming (especially the latter), but that doesn't mean that the ACC is on the level of (or ever will be on the level of) the Big Ten or SEC in terms of strength. The ACC internally voting to get a GOR into place isn't anywhere near the same as having an original member getting poached. Completely strong conferences don't get poached. Period. That doesn't mean that *everyone* wants to leave, but ACC partisans shouldn't fool themselves into thinking that Maryland leaving wasn't a big deal.

love your analysis, but i very respectfully disagree on one point: signing the GOR was MUCH bigger than having an original member poached because the other, more attractive members all said no thanks. they had the opportunity to bolt and declined. the ACC has since solidified and has emerged as a much more cohesive and united conference. that started with the GOR - it was a huge, huge deal.

in hind sight, the B1G was only able to attract a middling, dead-beat, almost bankrupt athletic program with a B1G alum president and was turned down by others who were MUCH more desirable.

(01-14-2014 01:12 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 01:00 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  no shame in asking. and how about the ACC punching the B1G with the GOR? in essence, that is UNC, UVa, Duke, GT and whoever else telling the B1G "you're not all that". goes both ways. just sayin'.

Getting a GOR in place was just common sense (just as it was the case with the Big 12). The Big Ten literally invented the GOR - they have had it in place since the 1980s. I've been pretty upfront in stating that I thought that the ACC was stronger than what a lot of Big Ten fans believed and didn't think that UVA and UNC were coming (especially the latter), but that doesn't mean that the ACC is on the level of (or ever will be on the level of) the Big Ten or SEC in terms of strength. The ACC internally voting to get a GOR into place isn't anywhere near the same as having an original member getting poached. Completely strong conferences don't get poached. Period. That doesn't mean that *everyone* wants to leave, but ACC partisans shouldn't fool themselves into thinking that Maryland leaving wasn't a big deal.

The lawsuit explicitly says the ACC recruiting of B1G teams occurred AFTER Maryland announced they were leaving for the B1G:

http://media10.washingtonpost.com/generi...awsuit.pdf

There's a lot of P5 chest-thumping in this lawsuit as well. And then this gem:

Quote:...a university such as Maryland would not consider an SEC affiliation a reasonably practical substitute for a Big Ten or ACC affiliation.

So, take that SEC, you'll never get Maryland!! :wink:

Maryland may well have opened a Pandora's box. What evidence will The ACC produce that The Big Ten, under Delaney's direction, worked to destabilize The ACC by "recruiting" multiple ACC institutions?

Don't be surprised if The Big Ten urges Maryland to settle and gives them the money to make it happen. Delaney doesn't want Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia Tech violating the confidentiality agreements he had them sign before he has discussions with them.
CJ