ACC 20

North East Division
Boston College
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
West Virginia

Mid Atlantic Division
Duke
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Virginia
Virginia Tech

South East Division
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
Wake Forest

Mid West Division
Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Tech

(02-23-2014 10:47 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I stopped reading after I saw Notre Dame and Memphis in the same conference.

So did I, and I am a Memphis fan.

Cool maps. So-so alignments. Definitely appreciate the work.

(02-24-2014 05:58 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 05:15 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:14 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 09:35 AM)john01992 Wrote:  i think his Achilles Heel is putting the two private schools of tulsa & smu (combined enrollment 10,100) in the most land grant orientated conference (average enrollment 39k)

There is that but Northwestern has less than 9,000 undergrads its not unheard of.

That said both are good schools on the academic front. SMU gets them into Texas and the DFW market.

Tulsa.... ehh I can see the argument both ways just like every school he listed with the exception of Old Dominion.

I see no valid (however slim) argument to the SEC adding them.

northwestern makes up for that with 11k post grads. so calling them a small school is a stretch.

the b10 academics are orientated towards post grad anyways, the acc is the more undergrad orientated academic conference

oh and.......

US news
NU 12
smu 60

arwu
NU 22 national 30th international
SMU 132 national 401st international

endowment
NU $7.9 bill
SMU $1.17 bill

no offense to SMU but they are undeserving of being put in the same sentence as NU when discussing academics.

Don't get me wrong I am not advocating for either of them or think there is a snowballs chance but however slim the reasoning I see what the intent was.

With the exception of Old Dominion.

So with the post-grad Northwestern is a 20k school. Still not light years ahead of a 12k in SMU.

If you really want to play the numbers game by all means look at Tulsa's numbers just over 4k is very very tiny.

Now to your points. US News is a joke. Its the cliff notes of academic rankings and that is being generous. Not a thing to do with our (Houston's) place on that list just a fact stated over and over again by acadmics who really keep track of this stuff.

Oh and by the way.....

NU Established in 1851, SMU in 1911

But like I said (as I realize I am king a case for SMU......) none of this will ever happen.

i get where you are coming from:

but 12k vs 20k is a huge difference

regardless of US news NW crushes smu by lightyears in every single ranking

those 2 schools are the complete opposite of big ten cultural values. whatever flaws NW has in terms of size they make up in literally every other category. tulsa/smu are not just small but religious undergrad schools with little research emphasis

Point of order: SMU is as religious as Southern California (another Methodist founded school)

(02-25-2014 10:08 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Point of order: SMU is as religious as Southern California (another Methodist founded school)

are you kidding me? one is private nonsectarian the other is religiously affiliated.

USC also has a "left coast politics" and pac12 anti religion attitude.

moral of the story: if you have a religion in your name you simply cannot compare them to a nonsectarian. ESPECIALLY a pac12 school.

(02-23-2014 11:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  if we are going that big id do a setup like this:

much better cultural fit

SEC
1. aggie
2. LSU
3. ole miss
4. Miss state
5. bama
6. auburn
7. georgia
8. Florida
9. s. carolina
10. kentucky
11. tenn
12. vandy
13. arkansas
14. Louisville
15. texas
16. oklahoma
17. oklahoma st.
18. FSU
19. miami
20. clemson
21. georgia tech
22. UNC
23. duke
24. NC state
25. virginia
26 virginia tech
27. wake forest
28. wvu

big ten
1. rutgers
2. maryland
3. penn state
4. OSU
5. michigan state
6. michigan
7. IU
8. purdue
9. illinois
10. nebraska
11. northwestern
12. iowa
13. minn
14. wisky
15. colorado
16. washington
17. cal
18. stanford
19. ucla
20. usc
21. notre dame
22. syracuse
23. pitt
24. boston college
25. missouri


pac12
1. oregon
2. oregon state
3. washington state
4. utah
5. arizona
6. arizona state
7. BYU
8. utah state
9. new mexico
10. texas tech
11. TCU
12. SMU
13. Baylor
14. Rice
15. colorado state
16. tulsa
17. Kansas state
18. iowa state
19. nevada
20. UNLV
21. Boise
22. frenso
23. san jose
24. SDSU
25. wyoming
26. kansas
27. Air Force
28. tulane

Independents
1. Army
2. UCF
3. USF
4. cincy
5. temple
6. memphis
7. army

playoffs: 3 automatic bids for winning the conference. one at large. an independent gets an at large if they achieve a certain ranking

You had to keep ECU out I see

(02-25-2014 01:14 PM)whitey Wrote:  

(02-23-2014 11:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  if we are going that big id do a setup like this:

much better cultural fit

SEC
1. aggie
2. LSU
3. ole miss
4. Miss state
5. bama
6. auburn
7. georgia
8. Florida
9. s. carolina
10. kentucky
11. tenn
12. vandy
13. arkansas
14. Louisville
15. texas
16. oklahoma
17. oklahoma st.
18. FSU
19. miami
20. clemson
21. georgia tech
22. UNC
23. duke
24. NC state
25. virginia
26 virginia tech
27. wake forest
28. wvu

big ten
1. rutgers
2. maryland
3. penn state
4. OSU
5. michigan state
6. michigan
7. IU
8. purdue
9. illinois
10. nebraska
11. northwestern
12. iowa
13. minn
14. wisky
15. colorado
16. washington
17. cal
18. stanford
19. ucla
20. usc
21. notre dame
22. syracuse
23. pitt
24. boston college
25. missouri


pac12
1. oregon
2. oregon state
3. washington state
4. utah
5. arizona
6. arizona state
7. BYU
8. utah state
9. new mexico
10. texas tech
11. TCU
12. SMU
13. Baylor
14. Rice
15. colorado state
16. tulsa
17. Kansas state
18. iowa state
19. nevada
20. UNLV
21. Boise
22. frenso
23. san jose
24. SDSU
25. wyoming
26. kansas
27. Air Force
28. tulane

Independents
1. Army
2. UCF
3. USF
4. cincy
5. temple
6. memphis
7. army

playoffs: 3 automatic bids for winning the conference. one at large. an independent gets an at large if they achieve a certain ranking

You had to keep ECU out I see

we have his this conversation several times before. not in the mood to get in another debate over ECU so i am just gonna walk away.

(02-23-2014 10:47 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I stopped reading after I saw Notre Dame and Memphis in the same conference.

I threw up after seeing Tulsa and SMU in the Big Ten. And Old Dominion in the SEC? wow...

If the WAC couldn't survive as a 16-team conference, what makes people think that 20+ team conferences would work any better?

(02-25-2014 01:03 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 10:08 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Point of order: SMU is as religious as Southern California (another Methodist founded school)

are you kidding me? one is private nonsectarian the other is religiously affiliated.

USC also has a "left coast politics" and pac12 anti religion attitude.

moral of the story: if you have a religion in your name you simply cannot compare them to a nonsectarian. ESPECIALLY a pac12 school.

My point is dont let the name fool you.

They have a historical affiliation with the Methodist church but in terms of their current views and culture, they are non-sectarian.

Same for TCU. Historical affiliation with Disciples of Christ but the only religious requirement in the whole school is you take one world religions survey course.

(02-25-2014 02:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 01:03 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 10:08 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Point of order: SMU is as religious as Southern California (another Methodist founded school)

are you kidding me? one is private nonsectarian the other is religiously affiliated.

USC also has a "left coast politics" and pac12 anti religion attitude.

moral of the story: if you have a religion in your name you simply cannot compare them to a nonsectarian. ESPECIALLY a pac12 school.

My point is dont let the name fool you.

They have a historical affiliation with the Methodist church but in terms of their current views and culture, they are non-sectarian.

Same for TCU. Historical affiliation with Disciples of Christ but the only religious requirement in the whole school is you take one world religions survey course.

are either of the two schools nonsectarian?

(02-25-2014 02:06 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 02:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 01:03 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 10:08 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Point of order: SMU is as religious as Southern California (another Methodist founded school)

are you kidding me? one is private nonsectarian the other is religiously affiliated.

USC also has a "left coast politics" and pac12 anti religion attitude.

moral of the story: if you have a religion in your name you simply cannot compare them to a nonsectarian. ESPECIALLY a pac12 school.

My point is dont let the name fool you.

They have a historical affiliation with the Methodist church but in terms of their current views and culture, they are non-sectarian.

Same for TCU. Historical affiliation with Disciples of Christ but the only religious requirement in the whole school is you take one world religions survey course.

are either of the two schools nonsectarian?

Duke is also Methodist.

WF pulled out from under the NC State Baptist Convention about 20 years ago.

I don't know if Baylor did in Texas. The "religious" schools playing major college football at the B-5 level to my knowledge are Notre Dame, BYU, and Baylor to a certain degree.

(02-25-2014 02:06 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 02:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 01:03 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 10:08 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Point of order: SMU is as religious as Southern California (another Methodist founded school)

are you kidding me? one is private nonsectarian the other is religiously affiliated.

USC also has a "left coast politics" and pac12 anti religion attitude.

moral of the story: if you have a religion in your name you simply cannot compare them to a nonsectarian. ESPECIALLY a pac12 school.

My point is dont let the name fool you.

They have a historical affiliation with the Methodist church but in terms of their current views and culture, they are non-sectarian.

Same for TCU. Historical affiliation with Disciples of Christ but the only religious requirement in the whole school is you take one world religions survey course.

are either of the two schools nonsectarian?

Thats a good question.

I guess they are defacto nonsectarian since they have no religious mission or rules from their founding faiths, but both still have historical "affiliations" with their churches.

But I'll put it this way, if their names were Hyer University and Clark University, their students would have no clue they were at a church founded school anymore than Duke or Stanford students do.

(02-25-2014 02:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 02:06 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 02:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 01:03 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 10:08 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Point of order: SMU is as religious as Southern California (another Methodist founded school)

are you kidding me? one is private nonsectarian the other is religiously affiliated.

USC also has a "left coast politics" and pac12 anti religion attitude.

moral of the story: if you have a religion in your name you simply cannot compare them to a nonsectarian. ESPECIALLY a pac12 school.

My point is dont let the name fool you.

They have a historical affiliation with the Methodist church but in terms of their current views and culture, they are non-sectarian.

Same for TCU. Historical affiliation with Disciples of Christ but the only religious requirement in the whole school is you take one world religions survey course.

are either of the two schools nonsectarian?

Duke is also Methodist.

WF pulled out from under the NC State Baptist Convention about 20 years ago.

I don't know if Baylor did in Texas. The "religious" schools playing major college football at the B-5 level to my knowledge are Notre Dame, BYU, and Baylor to a certain degree.

duke is listed as: United Methodist Church ties, but nonsectarian and independent[3]

WF is listed as: non-sectarian

however both tcu & smu are listed as religiously affiliated

you really can't spin it any different than this: TCU/smu may not be on the same level as baylor, byu, or notre dame, but they clearly are in the category of "religious" FBS schools.

and think of it like this. regardless of what their students THINK, they have religion in their name and regardless of who runs them.....that is something that both the land grants/research dominated pac12 & b10 will thumb their nose at

(02-25-2014 01:40 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-23-2014 10:47 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I stopped reading after I saw Notre Dame and Memphis in the same conference.

I threw up after seeing Tulsa and SMU in the Big Ten. And Old Dominion in the SEC? wow...

Just like everybody threw up when they say Methzzou in the SEC

For OP: As long as we're in the realm of obscure history, fantasy, and maps you might as well return the University of Utah back to the University of Deseret (1850-1892) and include present day Nevada and Northern Arizona into the Deseret Territory so your PAC map doesn't have that annoying Nevada gap.

Also, on the topic of state versus religious schools, the University of Deseret was a state/territory AND religious institution (territory was initially a theocracy). When the Deseret Territory became the State of Utah, one precondition was the separation of church and state, and obviously the University chose to become a secular state institution much to the dismay of Mormon church leader and first territorial governor Brigham Young. And that is why Utah has a religious school founded primarily to fulfill a religious mission in BYU and a state school that was doing the secular godless PAC thing before any other PAC school was founded.

(02-25-2014 01:14 PM)whitey Wrote:  

(02-23-2014 11:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  if we are going that big id do a setup like this:

much better cultural fit

SEC
1. aggie
2. LSU
3. ole miss
4. Miss state
5. bama
6. auburn
7. georgia
8. Florida
9. s. carolina
10. kentucky
11. tenn
12. vandy
13. arkansas
14. Louisville
15. texas
16. oklahoma
17. oklahoma st.
18. FSU
19. miami
20. clemson
21. georgia tech
22. UNC
23. duke
24. NC state
25. virginia
26 virginia tech
27. wake forest
28. wvu

big ten
1. rutgers
2. maryland
3. penn state
4. OSU
5. michigan state
6. michigan
7. IU
8. purdue
9. illinois
10. nebraska
11. northwestern
12. iowa
13. minn
14. wisky
15. colorado
16. washington
17. cal
18. stanford
19. ucla
20. usc
21. notre dame
22. syracuse
23. pitt
24. boston college
25. missouri


pac12
1. oregon
2. oregon state
3. washington state
4. utah
5. arizona
6. arizona state
7. BYU
8. utah state
9. new mexico
10. texas tech
11. TCU
12. SMU
13. Baylor
14. Rice
15. colorado state
16. tulsa
17. Kansas state
18. iowa state
19. nevada
20. UNLV
21. Boise
22. frenso
23. san jose
24. SDSU
25. wyoming
26. kansas
27. Air Force
28. tulane

Independents
1. Army
2. UCF
3. USF
4. cincy
5. temple
6. memphis
7. army

playoffs: 3 automatic bids for winning the conference. one at large. an independent gets an at large if they achieve a certain ranking

You had to keep ECU out I see

Just got to laugh it off.

Most would put ECU before a good number of those schools.

(02-25-2014 01:45 PM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  If the WAC couldn't survive as a 16-team conference, what makes people think that 20+ team conferences would work any better?

Suggesting those are actually comparable enterprises in ways other than simply being large?