(03-17-2014 12:01 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  This is not a big vs little conference issue. The A-10 is a mid major but lok how many teams got not the tourney. It looks like SOS was very important this year.

RPI SOS is bogus because it doesn't account for game location as the AWP does for a team's record. Which is actually better? A SOS of 75 when many of your opponents played more away games than home games. Or a SOS of 40 when they played two-thirds to three-quarters of their games at home.

This is where the P5 gains. Most of their opponents are from P5 conferences and play more home games than road games. If opponents' and opponents' opponents' records were adjusted as the AWP is, many of these gaudy SOSs would drop like a rock.

(03-17-2014 01:47 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  The A10 got 6, but whatever...

According to the Committee NC State was the last team in:

21-13, RPI of 55 (< - NC State)
23-9, RPI of 53 ( < - SMU)
27-6, RPI of 33 ( < - USM)

I'd put both USM and SMU in before them...

Some NC State fans have already been pretty vocal about their unworthiness for the NCAA tourney. Many of those same fans have said that they weren't even worthy of the NIT.

Too much politics in the game now. All it takes is a little crybaby whining Coach K to get you in.

(03-17-2014 01:53 PM)TribeNiner Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:47 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  The A10 got 6, but whatever...

According to the a Committee NC State was the last team in:

21-13, RPI of 55 (< - NC State)
23-9, RPI of 53 ( < - SMU)
27-6, RPI of 33 ( < - USM)

I'd put both USM and SMU in before them...

I wouldn't. SOS 33 buys you some leeway to lose some games. 6 wins against the top-100.
SMU--> SOS 114, 4 wins against top-100
USM--> SOS 131, 3 wins against top-100

Unless you're going to go the Wichita State route and win them all, it's tough to get in with that kind of SOS. Hell, I doubt Stephen F. Austin would've made it had they not won their tournament.

SFA--> 31-2, RPI of 52

Check my previous post on the validity of RPI SOS. There is none.

(03-17-2014 05:19 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 10:39 AM)Dracorex Wrote:  WKU coming in and losing Tulane and ECU will help tremendously but losing Tulsa will make that a wash...

some stuff

WKU has 23 NCAA bids, I'm just gonna throw that out there...

Tulane-3, ECU-2,

Tulsa has 15... so that's why its a wash.

(03-17-2014 07:50 PM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 05:19 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 10:39 AM)Dracorex Wrote:  WKU coming in and losing Tulane and ECU will help tremendously but losing Tulsa will make that a wash...

some stuff

More nonsense.

I know UAB sucks.

More nonsense.

UAB will get that at large bid now that ECU, Tulane and Tulsa are gone.

More nonsense.

What's that? Mike Davis made the NCAA tournament, before UAB did?

More nonsense.

(03-17-2014 09:17 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 07:50 PM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 05:19 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 10:39 AM)Dracorex Wrote:  WKU coming in and losing Tulane and ECU will help tremendously but losing Tulsa will make that a wash...

some stuff

More nonsense.

I know UAB sucks.

More nonsense.

UAB will get that at large bid now that ECU, Tulane and Tulsa are gone.

More nonsense.

What's that? Mike Davis made the NCAA tournament, before UAB did?

More nonsense.

Marv, don't try to act like losing ECU wouldn't help CUSA in basketball. CUSA losing ECU for basketball helps just like it would help CUSA football if they dropped UAB's football program. Just because ECU had a couple of mediocre/not completely terrible years doesn't suddenly make ECU more relevant than WKU or anyone else. Just like if UAB were to miracuously actually have a few good seasons in football, it wouldn't mean our program isn't still very poor off. It takes a long time to get over that slump and be consistently good (at least it is rare).

I don't think anyone wanted Mike Davis to fail after he left UAB or believes he is even a bad coach. The guy really just didn't fit at UAB. I personally really like him and think he is a good coach.

(03-17-2014 01:51 PM)EaglehasLanded Wrote:  A lot of those power conf. teams get their "big" wins in conf. and have multiple opps to do so in conf. every year. Unfortunately, which conf. you are in is not a choice for most, so we can only play the teams on our schedule. We can try to schedule better OOC of but you can't play every game away from home and you can't make good teams schedule you. The committee will do what they want and the criteria is so subjective it is ridiculous.

Thank you. Somebody finally gets how this shite works.

How most don't get this is unreal.

It's all biased based on the number of attempts at playing the top tier teams.

Nobody is going to schedule us h/h.....ain't gonna happen....PERIOD

Just look what they did to Wichita St. this year and their bracket.....they fkd them right up the arse.

It's collusion and bias at it's finest.....if one of the majors was getting this treatment, congress would've gotten involved.

Yeah, I'm still fkn pissed.

(03-17-2014 09:35 PM)Shrack Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 09:17 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 07:50 PM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 05:19 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 10:39 AM)Dracorex Wrote:  WKU coming in and losing Tulane and ECU will help tremendously but losing Tulsa will make that a wash...

some stuff

More nonsense.

I know UAB sucks.

More nonsense.

UAB will get that at large bid now that ECU, Tulane and Tulsa are gone.

More nonsense.

What's that? Mike Davis made the NCAA tournament, before UAB did?

More nonsense.

Marv, don't try to act like losing ECU wouldn't help CUSA in basketball. CUSA losing ECU for basketball helps just like it would help CUSA football if they dropped UAB's football program. Just because ECU had a couple of mediocre/not completely terrible years doesn't suddenly make ECU more relevant than WKU or anyone else. Just like if UAB were to miracuously actually have a few good seasons in football, it wouldn't mean our program isn't still very poor off. It takes a long time to get over that slump and be consistently good (at least it is rare).

I don't think anyone wanted Mike Davis to fail after he left UAB or believes he is even a bad coach. The guy really just didn't fit at UAB. I personally really like him and think he is a good coach.

Logic tells you that ECU and Tulane can not be the only problem with CUSA, in order for CUSA to be this bad. Are they part of the problem; yeah, but they were never the whole problem; no sir, CUSA being this bad is a collective effort. Let's not pretend that USM has always been as good as they are now, because CUSA has been stinking for years and USM used to be part of the problem too. So is UAB. UTEP too. So let's not pretend that CUSA's problem is just two schools. And if WKU was going to make CUSA so much better then why has the Sun Belt always been worse than CUSA in basketball year in and year out? Hell half of the Sun Belt is in CUSA right now and CUSA has never been worse. Explain that. And Hell of course WKU has made the tournament a lot. They have never shared a conference with Memphis. Put Memphis in that conference and none of them would have ever seen the NCAA either.

(03-17-2014 09:55 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 09:35 PM)Shrack Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 09:17 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 07:50 PM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 05:19 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  some stuff

More nonsense.

I know UAB sucks.

More nonsense.

UAB will get that at large bid now that ECU, Tulane and Tulsa are gone.

More nonsense.

What's that? Mike Davis made the NCAA tournament, before UAB did?

More nonsense.

Marv, don't try to act like losing ECU wouldn't help CUSA in basketball. CUSA losing ECU for basketball helps just like it would help CUSA football if they dropped UAB's football program. Just because ECU had a couple of mediocre/not completely terrible years doesn't suddenly make ECU more relevant than WKU or anyone else. Just like if UAB were to miracuously actually have a few good seasons in football, it wouldn't mean our program isn't still very poor off. It takes a long time to get over that slump and be consistently good (at least it is rare).

I don't think anyone wanted Mike Davis to fail after he left UAB or believes he is even a bad coach. The guy really just didn't fit at UAB. I personally really like him and think he is a good coach.

Logic tells you that ECU and Tulane can not be the only problem with CUSA, in order for CUSA to be this bad. Are they part of the problem; yeah, but they were never the whole problem; no sir, CUSA being this bad is a collective effort. Let's not pretend that USM has always been as good as they are now, because CUSA has been stinking for years and USM used to be part of the problem too. So is UAB. UTEP too. So let's not pretend that CUSA's problem is just two schools. And if WKU was going to make CUSA so much better then why has the Sun Belt always been worse than CUSA in basketball year in and year out? Hell half of the Sun Belt is in CUSA right now and CUSA has never been worse. Explain that. And Hell of course WKU has made the tournament a lot. They have never shared a conference with Memphis. Put Memphis in that conference and none of them would have ever seen the NCAA either.

One could make the argument that Memphis was the problem. Or, we got our at-large when we lost to split the regular season and lost to them in the finals.

All I know is the top 5 cusa teams this year were pretty damn good and undervalued.

The system and the people making the decisions are subjective.

And Marv, from a personal note, we've dominated you guys like Memphis dominated the conference.

So bye now....you guys are as fkd as we are....and you know it.

Larry Brown knows it too now....

(03-17-2014 07:17 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 12:01 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  This is not a big vs little conference issue. The A-10 is a mid major but lok how many teams got not the tourney. It looks like SOS was very important this year.

RPI SOS is bogus because it doesn't account for game location as the AWP does for a team's record. Which is actually better? A SOS of 75 when many of your opponents played more away games than home games. Or a SOS of 40 when they played two-thirds to three-quarters of their games at home.

This is where the P5 gains. Most of their opponents are from P5 conferences and play more home games than road games. If opponents' and opponents' opponents' records were adjusted as the AWP is, many of these gaudy SOSs would drop like a rock.

...finally gaining on it....

it's all smoke and mirrors....

will say it for the umpteenth time....it's all about the coin....which really puts not only us, but the conference, in a shite position....

...it's just too late for all this bs....

(03-17-2014 09:17 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 07:50 PM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 05:19 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  [quote='Dracorex' pid='10558754' dateline='1395070755']

WKU coming in and losing Tulane and ECU will help tremendously but losing Tulsa will make that a wash...

some stuff

More nonsense.

I know UAB sucks.

More nonsense.

UAB will get that at large bid now that ECU, Tulane and Tulsa are gone.

More nonsense.

What's that? Mike Davis made the NCAA tournament, before UAB did?

More nonsense.

first off, Your post was long winded and I didn't care to have that large quote right before my response. I didn't try to insult you nor did I misquote you. If someone wanted to read what you wrote they could have scrolled back up. I was clarifying what you quoted me on since you obviously like to nitpick. I even asked in the original post for you not to turn this into a ***** -fest... And like Clockwork here you are.

secondly, Mike Davis was not the coach for UAB. He's a great X&O kind of coach that I wouldn't mind having as a head assistant coach but not the guy I want leading my program. Texas Southern had a RPI of 239. They earned it by winning their conference tourney and not by an at large bid. If you ever run across an Indiana fan, ask them their thoughts on Mike Davis.

Tulane sucks and with the current coach we'll drag down any conference we're in.

(03-17-2014 09:55 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  Logic tells you that ECU and Tulane can not be the only problem with CUSA, in order for CUSA to be this bad. Are they part of the problem; yeah, but they were never the whole problem; no sir, CUSA being this bad is a collective effort. Let's not pretend that USM has always been as good as they are now, because CUSA has been stinking for years and USM used to be part of the problem too. So is UAB. UTEP too. So let's not pretend that CUSA's problem is just two schools. And if WKU was going to make CUSA so much better then why has the Sun Belt always been worse than CUSA in basketball year in and year out? Hell half of the Sun Belt is in CUSA right now and CUSA has never been worse. Explain that. And Hell of course WKU has made the tournament a lot. They have never shared a conference with Memphis. Put Memphis in that conference and none of them would have ever seen the NCAA either.

"I said earlier this year that every team that had an RPI ooc below 150 was killing our chances for at-large bids." That number is what every C-USA team should aim for that isn't already at that level. 68+32+32+16=148. (NCAA+NIT+CBI+CIT) We get better as a conference by having all of our teams get into tournaments. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? I wasn't talking about just ECU.

UAB has only 1 time in the past decade had a RPI that was worse than 150. That was this year. We weren't part of the problem. We weren't helping this conference but we also weren't hurting it either. My school has never had a 4 year stretch where we didn't at least make the NIT/NCAA tourneys. I'm not sure many other C-USA programs can claim that. Actually UAB has only ever had a RPI worse than 150 twice in its history, 2002 and 2014. In 2002 Murray Bartow was fired. Don't even try to drag us down to ECU's level.

I never claimed that ECU & Tulane were the only problems in CUSA basketball. Rice and SMU were also garbage most years. Having 3/4 of those programs leave the conference can not hurt our conference. I hope Rice hires a good coach and improves their program like SMU did with Brown and USM has over the last 4 years. There were some other bottom feeders too. These 4 just come to mind.

WKU and Tulsa have about an even level of prestige. I fully expect WKU to come in and be in the middle to top half of this conference every season just like Tulsa has been over the last decade. That was my point in what you originally quoted but you come in here and turn this into one of your stupid thread derailments.

The SBC's problem was not WKU or MTSU, it was the number of teams with a RPI worse than 150. Which sadly C-USA has invited some of them to join us. At least they didn't invite Troy. One team can not bring up the conference without help from the others. There were only 2 basketball programs worth anything in the old SunBelt. (Well USA makes a third but they didn't play football until last year)

(03-18-2014 12:41 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  Tulane sucks and with the current coach we'll drag down any conference we're in.

at least your fans are bearable.

(03-18-2014 01:56 AM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 09:55 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  Logic tells you that ECU and Tulane can not be the only problem with CUSA, in order for CUSA to be this bad. Are they part of the problem; yeah, but they were never the whole problem; no sir, CUSA being this bad is a collective effort. Let's not pretend that USM has always been as good as they are now, because CUSA has been stinking for years and USM used to be part of the problem too. So is UAB. UTEP too. So let's not pretend that CUSA's problem is just two schools. And if WKU was going to make CUSA so much better then why has the Sun Belt always been worse than CUSA in basketball year in and year out? Hell half of the Sun Belt is in CUSA right now and CUSA has never been worse. Explain that. And Hell of course WKU has made the tournament a lot. They have never shared a conference with Memphis. Put Memphis in that conference and none of them would have ever seen the NCAA either. By the time you hit conference play you used to seeing a tougher brand of ball.

"I said earlier this year that every team that had an RPI ooc below 150 was killing our chances for at-large bids." That number is what every C-USA team should aim for that isn't already at that level. 68+32+32+16=148. (NCAA+NIT+CBI+CIT) We get better as a conference by having all of our teams get into tournaments. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? I wasn't talking about just ECU.

UAB has only 1 time in the past decade had a RPI that was worse than 150. That was this year. We weren't part of the problem. We weren't helping this conference but we also weren't hurting it either. My school has never had a 4 year stretch where we didn't at least make the NIT/NCAA tourneys. I'm not sure many other C-USA programs can claim that. Actually UAB has only ever had a RPI worse than 150 twice in its history, 2002 and 2014. In 2002 Murray Bartow was fired. Don't even try to drag us down to ECU's level.

I never claimed that ECU & Tulane were the only problems in CUSA basketball. Rice and SMU were also garbage most years. Having 3/4 of those programs leave the conference can not hurt our conference. I hope Rice hires a good coach and improves their program like SMU did with Brown and USM has over the last 4 years. There were some other bottom feeders too. These 4 just come to mind.

WKU and Tulsa have about an even level of prestige. I fully expect WKU to come in and be in the middle to top half of this conference every season just like Tulsa has been over the last decade. That was my point in what you originally quoted but you come in here and turn this into one of your stupid thread derailments.

The SBC's problem was not WKU or MTSU, it was the number of teams with a RPI worse than 150. Which sadly C-USA has invited some of them to join us. At least they didn't invite Troy. One team can not bring up the conference without help from the others. There were only 2 basketball programs worth anything in the old SunBelt. (Well USA makes a third but they didn't play football until last year)

I have to disagree that with the above underlined statement. While Doug Wojcik was Tulsa's coach we were ok but not good. His teams SOS was consistently not very good. In comparison under Coach Manning Tulsa would be considered good. At least by C-USA standards. Coach Manning went with a very tough OOC to get us ready for conference and C-USA tournament play. Playing a tougher OOC is not only good for the RPI and SOS if you can win some games. It toughens you up as a team. Without playing those tough teams we played at the beginning of the season, there is no way we would have been able to go on a 10-11 game win tear at the end of the conference season like we did.

(03-18-2014 08:10 AM)TulsaEye Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 01:56 AM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 09:55 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  Logic tells you that ECU and Tulane can not be the only problem with CUSA, in order for CUSA to be this bad. Are they part of the problem; yeah, but they were never the whole problem; no sir, CUSA being this bad is a collective effort. Let's not pretend that USM has always been as good as they are now, because CUSA has been stinking for years and USM used to be part of the problem too. So is UAB. UTEP too. So let's not pretend that CUSA's problem is just two schools. And if WKU was going to make CUSA so much better then why has the Sun Belt always been worse than CUSA in basketball year in and year out? Hell half of the Sun Belt is in CUSA right now and CUSA has never been worse. Explain that. And Hell of course WKU has made the tournament a lot. They have never shared a conference with Memphis. Put Memphis in that conference and none of them would have ever seen the NCAA either. By the time you hit conference play you used to seeing a tougher brand of ball.

"I said earlier this year that every team that had an RPI ooc below 150 was killing our chances for at-large bids." That number is what every C-USA team should aim for that isn't already at that level. 68+32+32+16=148. (NCAA+NIT+CBI+CIT) We get better as a conference by having all of our teams get into tournaments. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? I wasn't talking about just ECU.

UAB has only 1 time in the past decade had a RPI that was worse than 150. That was this year. We weren't part of the problem. We weren't helping this conference but we also weren't hurting it either. My school has never had a 4 year stretch where we didn't at least make the NIT/NCAA tourneys. I'm not sure many other C-USA programs can claim that. Actually UAB has only ever had a RPI worse than 150 twice in its history, 2002 and 2014. In 2002 Murray Bartow was fired. Don't even try to drag us down to ECU's level.

I never claimed that ECU & Tulane were the only problems in CUSA basketball. Rice and SMU were also garbage most years. Having 3/4 of those programs leave the conference can not hurt our conference. I hope Rice hires a good coach and improves their program like SMU did with Brown and USM has over the last 4 years. There were some other bottom feeders too. These 4 just come to mind.

WKU and Tulsa have about an even level of prestige. I fully expect WKU to come in and be in the middle to top half of this conference every season just like Tulsa has been over the last decade. That was my point in what you originally quoted but you come in here and turn this into one of your stupid thread derailments.

The SBC's problem was not WKU or MTSU, it was the number of teams with a RPI worse than 150. Which sadly C-USA has invited some of them to join us. At least they didn't invite Troy. One team can not bring up the conference without help from the others. There were only 2 basketball programs worth anything in the old SunBelt. (Well USA makes a third but they didn't play football until last year)

I have to disagree that with the above underlined statement. While Doug Wojcik was Tulsa's coach we were ok but not good. His teams SOS was consistently not very good. In comparison under Coach Manning Tulsa would be considered good. At least by C-USA standards. Coach Manning went with a very tough OOC to get us ready for conference and C-USA tournament play. Playing a tougher OOC is not only good for the RPI and SOS if you can win some games. It toughens you up as a team. Without playing those tough teams we played at the beginning of the season, there is no way we would have been able to go on a 10-11 game win tear at the end of the conference season like we did.

Having Danny Manning as a coach certainly helps with scheduling. I'm sure that Tyndall attempted to get a schedule for Southern Miss similar to Tulsa's. The problem: rejections from more than 50 programs.

(03-18-2014 12:36 AM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 09:17 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 07:50 PM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 05:19 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  [quote='Dracorex' pid='10558754' dateline='1395070755']

WKU coming in and losing Tulane and ECU will help tremendously but losing Tulsa will make that a wash...

some stuff

More nonsense.

I know UAB sucks.

More nonsense.

UAB will get that at large bid now that ECU, Tulane and Tulsa are gone.

More nonsense.

What's that? Mike Davis made the NCAA tournament, before UAB did?

More nonsense.

first off, Your post was long winded and I didn't care to have that large quote right before my response. I didn't try to insult you nor did I misquote you. If someone wanted to read what you wrote they could have scrolled back up. I was clarifying what you quoted me on since you obviously like to nitpick. I even asked in the original post for you not to turn this into a ***** -fest... And like Clockwork here you are.

secondly, Mike Davis was not the coach for UAB. He's a great X&O kind of coach that I wouldn't mind having as a head assistant coach but not the guy I want leading my program. Texas Southern had a RPI of 239. They earned it by winning their conference tourney and not by an at large bid. If you ever run across an Indiana fan, ask them their thoughts on Mike Davis.

Your wrote more words and you are still saying nothing. I can sum it up. UAB sucks. Therefore CUSA will continue to suck.

(03-18-2014 01:56 AM)Dracorex Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 09:55 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  Logic tells you that ECU and Tulane can not be the only problem with CUSA, in order for CUSA to be this bad. Are they part of the problem; yeah, but they were never the whole problem; no sir, CUSA being this bad is a collective effort. Let's not pretend that USM has always been as good as they are now, because CUSA has been stinking for years and USM used to be part of the problem too. So is UAB. UTEP too. So let's not pretend that CUSA's problem is just two schools. And if WKU was going to make CUSA so much better then why has the Sun Belt always been worse than CUSA in basketball year in and year out? Hell half of the Sun Belt is in CUSA right now and CUSA has never been worse. Explain that. And Hell of course WKU has made the tournament a lot. They have never shared a conference with Memphis. Put Memphis in that conference and none of them would have ever seen the NCAA either.

"I said earlier this year that every team that had an RPI ooc below 150 was killing our chances for at-large bids." That number is what every C-USA team should aim for that isn't already at that level. 68+32+32+16=148. (NCAA+NIT+CBI+CIT) We get better as a conference by having all of our teams get into tournaments. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? I wasn't talking about just ECU.

UAB has only 1 time in the past decade had a RPI that was worse than 150. That was this year. We weren't part of the problem. We weren't helping this conference but we also weren't hurting it either. My school has never had a 4 year stretch where we didn't at least make the NIT/NCAA tourneys. I'm not sure many other C-USA programs can claim that. Actually UAB has only ever had a RPI worse than 150 twice in its history, 2002 and 2014. In 2002 Murray Bartow was fired. Don't even try to drag us down to ECU's level.

I never claimed that ECU & Tulane were the only problems in CUSA basketball. Rice and SMU were also garbage most years. Having 3/4 of those programs leave the conference can not hurt our conference. I hope Rice hires a good coach and improves their program like SMU did with Brown and USM has over the last 4 years. There were some other bottom feeders too. These 4 just come to mind.

WKU and Tulsa have about an even level of prestige. I fully expect WKU to come in and be in the middle to top half of this conference every season just like Tulsa has been over the last decade. That was my point in what you originally quoted but you come in here and turn this into one of your stupid thread derailments.

The SBC's problem was not WKU or MTSU, it was the number of teams with a RPI worse than 150. Which sadly C-USA has invited some of them to join us. At least they didn't invite Troy. One team can not bring up the conference without help from the others. There were only 2 basketball programs worth anything in the old SunBelt. (Well USA makes a third but they didn't play football until last year)

Long winded stupid argument from a dumb fan who actually thought that his team was good enough to get an at large bid out of CUSA.

Perhaps Marv should take some time away from this board before he has a mental meltdown... It is really close...

Anyways... another thread ruined by the tandem of ECU fans also known as SJ & Marv... woohoo.

(03-18-2014 01:12 PM)Dracorex Wrote:  Perhaps Marv should take some time away from this board before he has a mental meltdown... It is really close...

Anyways... another thread ruined by the tandem of ECU fans also known as SJ & Marv... woohoo.

second that motion....at least sj had enough sense to go the bye-bye route.....it did take quite a bit of cattle prodding though.....

I really can't wait to watch those guys destroy him over at the other board....obnoxious degradation is the simple description....he's actually too much fun to fk with....soft spot in my heart for that guy....seriously....I love his passion.....