(06-03-2014 08:51 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I agree, this should be a worldwide holiday. Also, I know it's not popular to say but the reality is the Soviet Union defeated the Nazis in World War II. Great Britain also had more to do with the win than the US. That is not to take anything away from the many brave American soldiers who fought so bravely in WWII. However, history is what it is and the USSR never gets the credit it deserves for its efforts in defeating Hitler.

That is true, but we were also fighting the Japanese who were a pretty scary regime themselves.

I disagree with the Soviets not getting any credit. Maybe I've just read better books.

(06-04-2014 11:53 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 11:34 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 09:20 PM)RutgersMike Wrote:  I am a member of the Sons of the American Legion and the post I am belong to just lost three veterans who served during the WWII/Korea era. Most veterans do not like to talk about their war experiences, especially to non-veterans, but when they do open up, I will listen and learn.

That is the truth. My Uncle Freddie was shot on Iwo Jima. He never even talked to his kids about it. He finally opened up to me after my return from a four year tour at Clark AB, Republic of the Philippines...

What years were you @ Clark AFB? I was at Cubi from 88 to 92. Flew helos and was always in/out Clark, at least until Mt. Pinatubo.

I was there 84-88. Do you miss Grande Island as much as I do? I remember watching all the P3s at Cubi Point. Small world..

(06-04-2014 10:46 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 10:19 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  MacArthur was a lunatic

Example(s) of his lunacy?

Quote:Really, WWI and WWII should be considered one war, not two. The two are directly related and the foolish way in which the Treaty of Versailles was constructed - as an over the top punishment of the Germans - essentially guaranteed that there would be a rematch of sorts.

This.

He was most certainly crazy. I was a History minor at Arkansas state and I've always been a history buff. There is a documentary about him and his ways you should check out.

(06-04-2014 08:02 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Also, speaking of fighting a war on two fronts, I will always believe that if Hitler had honored the Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact he signed with with Stalin in 1939 - at least for a little while longer - his side almost certainly would have won. However, neither man trusted the other - in fact they were each terrified of each other - so it was always an uneasy accord.

Had the Germans been able to focus on the UK/USA, instead of having their attention/resources divided, they would have won. Also had the Nazis not committed so much of their resources to the Balkins before invading the Soviet Union (which never would have happened had Rommel not been dispatched to Africa) the Germans would have won.

Fortunately for us, Hitler was a HORRIBLE military strategist and too egotistical to listen to those who had more training in that particular field. That shortcoming, along with tremendous valor on the part of millions of young men all across the world, basically saved Western civilization as we have come to know it.

I still feel Hitler's biggest mistake of WWII was after he conquered mainland Europe, and got the non aggression pact with Stalin, he just assumed the US/UK would quickly sign peace accord's and stay out of his way. Instead the UK rejected all his overtures, and despite his threat of invasion, he really had no real plan as to how to defeat Britain in a war.

The result was they chose to do an aerial war over London and tried to scare the UK into coming to talks, and Britain ended up winning that battle. The fact that the UK sat there and managed to hold off Germany for a full year before the US Officially entered the war (No matter how much aid we were secretly providing) is the real turning point of the European side of the War.

I'm also convinced Japan's fascination with defeating the US hurt Hitler significantly because Pearl Harbor brought the Americans into the War, when at the time popular support was to stay out of it. (I think we would have eventually entered regardless, but it would have caused the war to be a lot longer and cost more lives.

(06-05-2014 01:29 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 08:02 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Also, speaking of fighting a war on two fronts, I will always believe that if Hitler had honored the Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact he signed with with Stalin in 1939 - at least for a little while longer - his side almost certainly would have won. However, neither man trusted the other - in fact they were each terrified of each other - so it was always an uneasy accord.

Had the Germans been able to focus on the UK/USA, instead of having their attention/resources divided, they would have won. Also had the Nazis not committed so much of their resources to the Balkins before invading the Soviet Union (which never would have happened had Rommel not been dispatched to Africa) the Germans would have won.

Fortunately for us, Hitler was a HORRIBLE military strategist and too egotistical to listen to those who had more training in that particular field. That shortcoming, along with tremendous valor on the part of millions of young men all across the world, basically saved Western civilization as we have come to know it.

I still feel Hitler's biggest mistake of WWII was after he conquered mainland Europe, and got the non aggression pact with Stalin, he just assumed the US/UK would quickly sign peace accord's and stay out of his way. Instead the UK rejected all his overtures, and despite his threat of invasion, he really had no real plan as to how to defeat Britain in a war.

The result was they chose to do an aerial war over London and tried to scare the UK into coming to talks, and Britain ended up winning that battle. The fact that the UK sat there and managed to hold off Germany for a full year before the US Officially entered the war (No matter how much aid we were secretly providing) is the real turning point of the European side of the War.

I'm also convinced Japan's fascination with defeating the US hurt Hitler significantly because Pearl Harbor brought the Americans into the War, when at the time popular support was to stay out of it. (I think we would have eventually entered regardless, but it would have caused the war to be a lot longer and cost more lives.

Interesting take on it.

If Hitler had known his history, he'd know that Britain has been fighting against Continental hegemony for centuries.

Against Napoleon, they stuck it out for 23 years, often alone. No matter how isolated they were, or how close Napoleon seemed to victory, Napoleon's navy was too small to complete the conquest. Again and again Britain funded new armies to combat him on the Continent. They would have done the same against Hitler.

Even now that Europe is at peace, the British are still reluctant to cede their independence to the rest of Europe. They didn't join the Euro, and they just elected a majority of their EU representatives from a party that has vowed to get the UK out of the EU.

(06-05-2014 11:14 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 11:53 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 11:34 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 09:20 PM)RutgersMike Wrote:  I am a member of the Sons of the American Legion and the post I am belong to just lost three veterans who served during the WWII/Korea era. Most veterans do not like to talk about their war experiences, especially to non-veterans, but when they do open up, I will listen and learn.

That is the truth. My Uncle Freddie was shot on Iwo Jima. He never even talked to his kids about it. He finally opened up to me after my return from a four year tour at Clark AB, Republic of the Philippines...

What years were you @ Clark AFB? I was at Cubi from 88 to 92. Flew helos and was always in/out Clark, at least until Mt. Pinatubo.

I was there 84-88. Do you miss Grande Island as much as I do? I remember watching all the P3s at Cubi Point. Small world..

Yeah, Grande Island was a true little getaway. Nothing like taking a little honeyko out there for the weekend. Had a few positive memories outside friendship gate too.

I used to run around the airstrip at Cubic Pt., every morning, Including All Hands beach. Was about the only peaceful time around that place. Good memories.

(06-04-2014 11:34 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 09:20 PM)RutgersMike Wrote:  I am a member of the Sons of the American Legion and the post I am belong to just lost three veterans who served during the WWII/Korea era. Most veterans do not like to talk about their war experiences, especially to non-veterans, but when they do open up, I will listen and learn.

That is the truth. My Uncle Freddie was shot on Iwo Jima. He never even talked to his kids about it. He finally opened up to me after my return from a four year tour at Clark AB, Republic of the Philippines...

That must have been hell. One of my uncles that died last year fought in the battle of the bulge. He never talked about it.

(06-05-2014 01:29 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 08:02 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Also, speaking of fighting a war on two fronts, I will always believe that if Hitler had honored the Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact he signed with with Stalin in 1939 - at least for a little while longer - his side almost certainly would have won. However, neither man trusted the other - in fact they were each terrified of each other - so it was always an uneasy accord.

Had the Germans been able to focus on the UK/USA, instead of having their attention/resources divided, they would have won. Also had the Nazis not committed so much of their resources to the Balkins before invading the Soviet Union (which never would have happened had Rommel not been dispatched to Africa) the Germans would have won.

Fortunately for us, Hitler was a HORRIBLE military strategist and too egotistical to listen to those who had more training in that particular field. That shortcoming, along with tremendous valor on the part of millions of young men all across the world, basically saved Western civilization as we have come to know it.

I still feel Hitler's biggest mistake of WWII was after he conquered mainland Europe, and got the non aggression pact with Stalin, he just assumed the US/UK would quickly sign peace accord's and stay out of his way. Instead the UK rejected all his overtures, and despite his threat of invasion, he really had no real plan as to how to defeat Britain in a war.

The result was they chose to do an aerial war over London and tried to scare the UK into coming to talks, and Britain ended up winning that battle. The fact that the UK sat there and managed to hold off Germany for a full year before the US Officially entered the war (No matter how much aid we were secretly providing) is the real turning point of the European side of the War.

I'm also convinced Japan's fascination with defeating the US hurt Hitler significantly because Pearl Harbor brought the Americans into the War, when at the time popular support was to stay out of it. (I think we would have eventually entered regardless, but it would have caused the war to be a lot longer and cost more lives.

He didn't chose the air war to force them into talks, in order to invade Europe you had to do it with paratroopers. His mission was to destroy the RAF and then their could be an invasion. Problem is the Luftwaffe couldn't defeat the RAF So the invasion wouldn't be successful. His real mistake was letting the British military escape across the channel at Dunkirk. Had he forced a surrender there he would have won before the US entered the war.

As for Japan, they needed the phillipines and their resources to mount the attacks on the rest of the pacific islands and Manchuria. Problem was it belonged to the US. So in order to avoid fighting the US man to man the tried to destroy the pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor before it started. Only hitch in their plan were the cruisers and aircraft carries that were out on maneuvers and not in the harbor when they attacked. Had they been things would have been much different.

(06-05-2014 09:18 PM)stAtecamera13 Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 01:29 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 08:02 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Also, speaking of fighting a war on two fronts, I will always believe that if Hitler had honored the Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact he signed with with Stalin in 1939 - at least for a little while longer - his side almost certainly would have won. However, neither man trusted the other - in fact they were each terrified of each other - so it was always an uneasy accord.

Had the Germans been able to focus on the UK/USA, instead of having their attention/resources divided, they would have won. Also had the Nazis not committed so much of their resources to the Balkins before invading the Soviet Union (which never would have happened had Rommel not been dispatched to Africa) the Germans would have won.

Fortunately for us, Hitler was a HORRIBLE military strategist and too egotistical to listen to those who had more training in that particular field. That shortcoming, along with tremendous valor on the part of millions of young men all across the world, basically saved Western civilization as we have come to know it.

I still feel Hitler's biggest mistake of WWII was after he conquered mainland Europe, and got the non aggression pact with Stalin, he just assumed the US/UK would quickly sign peace accord's and stay out of his way. Instead the UK rejected all his overtures, and despite his threat of invasion, he really had no real plan as to how to defeat Britain in a war.

The result was they chose to do an aerial war over London and tried to scare the UK into coming to talks, and Britain ended up winning that battle. The fact that the UK sat there and managed to hold off Germany for a full year before the US Officially entered the war (No matter how much aid we were secretly providing) is the real turning point of the European side of the War.

I'm also convinced Japan's fascination with defeating the US hurt Hitler significantly because Pearl Harbor brought the Americans into the War, when at the time popular support was to stay out of it. (I think we would have eventually entered regardless, but it would have caused the war to be a lot longer and cost more lives.

He didn't chose the air war to force them into talks, in order to invade Europe you had to do it with paratroopers. His mission was to destroy the RAF and then their could be an invasion. Problem is the Luftwaffe couldn't defeat the RAF So the invasion wouldn't be successful. His real mistake was letting the British military escape across the channel at Dunkirk. Had he forced a surrender there he would have won before the US entered the war.

As for Japan, they needed the phillipines and their resources to mount the attacks on the rest of the pacific islands and Manchuria. Problem was it belonged to the US. So in order to avoid fighting the US man to man the tried to destroy the pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor before it started. Only hitch in their plan were the cruisers and aircraft carries that were out on maneuvers and not in the harbor when they attacked. Had they been things would have been much different.

Gold star!

(06-03-2014 10:19 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  That's true. Also, the US ultimately came to control the Pacific, which was a major achievement given Japan's aspirations and head start (because of Wilson's blunder at the end of WWI - shunning the Japanese even though they aligned with the winning side). MacArthur was a lunatic but his efforts in the Philippines are rightly the stuff of legend.

I was just making the point that to most of the US, the war began in 1941. In much of Europe, particularly Russia/USSR, it basically began in 1914 and never really ended until the armistice was signed in 1945.

Really, WWI and WWII should be considered one war, not two. The two are directly related and the foolish way in which the Treaty of Versailles was constructed - as an over the top punishment of the Germans - essentially guaranteed that there would be a rematch of sorts.

All this poor Japan stuff is mainly baloney. They didn't do much in World War I except take over for themselves several German islands and influence in a district of China. They had no troops being mowed down on the Western front. They had already gained much more than they should have before they were "ignored" at Versailles.

(06-05-2014 09:10 AM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  The sacrifices made by millions of young men, on June 6, 1944 and so many other days, richly deserve to be remembered and honored. Tigeer mentioned the feeling of walking the beaches of Normandy. I never fail to tear up when watching the last sequence in Saving Private Ryan where Ryan visits the ceremony in Normandy. The rows and rows of crosses is very sobering, and as jaxnolefan notes, it wasn't even the deadliest battle of the war. May God bless anyone who has ever served, either in times of peace or war.

I always tear up during that scene when one of the MPs comes to the mother's house to tell her that one of her sons had passed away. Then, as he's driving off, you see in the distance another truck making its way down the long country road towards her house (presumably to tell her that her other son had also perished).

I can't even imagine what families went through during that time and my heart forever bleeds for them. That scene absolutely OBLITERATES me every single time and I am not one who typically becomes emotional when watching a film. However, that's different because real people went through scenes just like that over and over again during World Wars 1 and 2.

That's one of my all time favorite films.

(06-05-2014 12:51 PM)stAtecamera13 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 10:46 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 10:19 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  MacArthur was a lunatic

Example(s) of his lunacy?

He was most certainly crazy. I was a History minor at Arkansas state and I've always been a history buff. There is a documentary about him and his ways you should check out.

Franklin Roosevelt, Douglas MacArthur and Winston Churchill -- all 3 -- had a lot of drama-queen and egomaniac roiling around inside their character. But MacArthur was neither "crazy" and/or a "lunatic." If anyone disagrees, I invite them to cite some evidence to the contrary. So far, no one has done so.

(06-07-2014 09:11 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 09:10 AM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  The sacrifices made by millions of young men, on June 6, 1944 and so many other days, richly deserve to be remembered and honored. Tigeer mentioned the feeling of walking the beaches of Normandy. I never fail to tear up when watching the last sequence in Saving Private Ryan where Ryan visits the ceremony (correction, cemetery) in Normandy. The rows and rows of crosses is very sobering, and as jaxnolefan notes, it wasn't even the deadliest battle of the war. May God bless anyone who has ever served, either in times of peace or war.

I always tear up during that scene when one of the MPs comes to the mother's house to tell her that one of her sons had passed away. Then, as he's driving off, you see in the distance another truck making its way down the long country road towards her house (presumably to tell her that her other son had also perished).

I can't even imagine what families went through during that time and my heart forever bleeds for them. That scene absolutely OBLITERATES me every single time and I am not one who typically becomes emotional when watching a film. However, that's different because real people went through scenes just like that over and over again during World Wars 1 and 2.

That's one of my all time favorite films.

Pearl Harbor is not a great movie (it tried too hard to be "Titanic"), but it also has 2 scenes that I find to be very moving. When Danny comes to tell Evelyn that Rafe has been killed, he just has to get out of the car and look at her, and she knows why he has come. The other scene is on the capsized Oklahoma, where the hands of the men trapped below decks that are trying to pry open a grate to escape stop moving.

Tora! Tora! Tora! is still the definitive Pearl Harbor movie.

(06-10-2014 02:21 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Tora! Tora! Tora! is still the definitive Pearl Harbor movie.

That's a good one. Patton is also good, as are movies like "The Longest Day". I actually kind of like the ones where the German and Japanese parts are in their native language and are subtitled.

I am geeky enough about military hardware that I do find it a little distracting that they (for good reason) had to use modern tanks and/or ships in these movies.

(06-10-2014 01:35 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 12:51 PM)stAtecamera13 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 10:46 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 10:19 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  MacArthur was a lunatic

Example(s) of his lunacy?

He was most certainly crazy. I was a History minor at Arkansas state and I've always been a history buff. There is a documentary about him and his ways you should check out.

Franklin Roosevelt, Douglas MacArthur and Winston Churchill -- all 3 -- had a lot of drama-queen and egomaniac roiling around inside their character. But MacArthur was neither "crazy" and/or a "lunatic." If anyone disagrees, I invite them to cite some evidence to the contrary. So far, no one has done so.

McArthur was at both extremes, not crazy or a lunatic though, he really messed up not having our airplanes in the air or dispersed better at Clark Field in the Philippines, but went against almost all odds at Inchon to change the Korean War around.

A great movie from Germany's point of view is "The Bridge". About a small town thats critical for the Americans to take as it has a limited access bridge that can carry heavy Armor. The main German force there abandoned the town but not before making a local schools young men honorary German soldiers. They were told to hold That Bridge from the Americans as The German Army high tailed it away. The young Men fought bravely but were Heavily out matched. Kind of a tear jerker. I believe it was remade a few years ago and still had English subtitles.