Fine with Kansas if they come along with the likes of Oklahoma or better from the Big 12. I don't see any upside to taking UConn.

The conference does not need to add two basketball bluebloods. The conference once again had the highest attendance figure as a conference. Adding Kansas to the mix adds some balance and opposition to the major move eastward with Penn State, Maryland and Rutgers. Kansas is a certified Midwest state and that University could stand toe to toe with other AAU State flagships in the Big Ten.

What the conference needs to come along with another basketball blue blood is another football blueblood. Oklahoma fits that mold. If the problem of finding homes for everyone in the Big 12 could be solved, I have no doubt that the Presidents of the Big Ten would sign on for Oklahoma. Perhaps some other fans would disagree for personal reasons but Oklahoma has what The Big Ten needs and they are not going to get it out East.

(06-20-2014 09:33 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If the problem of finding homes for everyone in the Big 12 could be solved, I have no doubt that the Presidents of the Big Ten would sign on for Oklahoma.

Seems likely the Presidents of Wisconsin and That School Up North wouldn't, not unless it was part of a package deal to get Texas.

(06-21-2014 09:37 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-20-2014 09:33 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If the problem of finding homes for everyone in the Big 12 could be solved, I have no doubt that the Presidents of the Big Ten would sign on for Oklahoma.

Seems likely the Presidents of Wisconsin and That School Up North wouldn't, not unless it was part of a package deal to get Texas.

they signed off on Nebraska despite being major proponents of pushing Nebraska out of the AAU.

They have already shown they will make exception for major brands and Oklahoma is a major brand. We are not likely to agree on this and I do believe that Nebraska is evidence in my corner, not yours.

(06-21-2014 02:34 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-21-2014 09:37 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-20-2014 09:33 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If the problem of finding homes for everyone in the Big 12 could be solved, I have no doubt that the Presidents of the Big Ten would sign on for Oklahoma.

Seems likely the Presidents of Wisconsin and That School Up North wouldn't, not unless it was part of a package deal to get Texas.

they signed off on Nebraska despite being major proponents of pushing Nebraska out of the AAU.

They have already shown they will make exception for major brands and Oklahoma is a major brand. We are not likely to agree on this and I do believe that Nebraska is evidence in my corner, not yours.

UNL is an academic outlier in the b10 no doubt. but the gap in academic ranking between UNL and the next closest B10 school is half of that of OU.

Edit: tl;dr: Its not that Big Ten Presidents are opposed to academic slumming itself. They are opposed to the headaches that being seen to be engaged in academic slumming are likely to bring.

As Nebraska showed, if they can do the academic slumming while avoiding the headaches, they are fine with that.

(06-21-2014 02:34 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-21-2014 09:37 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-20-2014 09:33 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If the problem of finding homes for everyone in the Big 12 could be solved, I have no doubt that the Presidents of the Big Ten would sign on for Oklahoma.

Seems likely the Presidents of Wisconsin and That School Up North wouldn't, not unless it was part of a package deal to get Texas.

they signed off on Nebraska despite being major proponents of pushing Nebraska out of the AAU.

What relevance does that have to the fact that no stink would be raised about it back in Madison or Ann Arbor? What the general run of the mill academic would know when Nebraska was admitted was that Nebraska was an AAU member.

Its not like those two Presidents actually mean any of that stuff about academic integrity ~ they are academic politicians, and are every bit as inclined to be self-interested dissemblers as any other kind of politician. Its that they are the Presidents of academic snob universities, and they would very strongly rather not face the political uproar if they vote in a school that the faculty believe to be slumming because of football success.

As far as Nebraska getting kicked out, it was the insiders who would have known, and they made sure to get Nebraska admitted before the run of the mill academics would catch wind of the fact that Nebraska was about to get kicked out.

Quote: They have already shown they will make exception for major brands and Oklahoma is a major brand. We are not likely to agree on this and I do believe that Nebraska is evidence in my corner, not yours.

Except they haven't shown any such exception. The CIC was always about acting as a pretense of academic respectability ... and even when they sacrificed the reality with Nebraska (as all Universities that aim to compete on a high level in sports sacrifice the reality of academic respectability repeatedly), they clung to the pretense.

Would the big have any interest in byu? They seem to be going around with their dress pulled up begging for p5 inclusion. They could be snatched up in a new York minute. Do you all think they would be an asset?

(06-21-2014 02:50 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-21-2014 02:34 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-21-2014 09:37 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-20-2014 09:33 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If the problem of finding homes for everyone in the Big 12 could be solved, I have no doubt that the Presidents of the Big Ten would sign on for Oklahoma.

Seems likely the Presidents of Wisconsin and That School Up North wouldn't, not unless it was part of a package deal to get Texas.

they signed off on Nebraska despite being major proponents of pushing Nebraska out of the AAU.

They have already shown they will make exception for major brands and Oklahoma is a major brand. We are not likely to agree on this and I do believe that Nebraska is evidence in my corner, not yours.

UNL is an academic outlier in the b10 no doubt. but the gap in academic ranking between UNL and the next closest B10 school is half of that of OU.

When they are gained through the disintegration of the Big 12 along with Kansas, it wont be seen in this light that you are trying to portray it in.

Delany can easily make a strong argument for taking Oklahoma in that situation.

If these folks know its inevitable, it then becomes about denying the competition the top brands as it is about gaining those that best fit your conference. ACC and Louisville is proof of that.

If Delany can sell the Presidents on Oklahoma in private then they absolutely will fashion some form of public statement about the positives of Oklahoma on the academic side in order to sell the acquisition despite whatever shortfalls there may be.

Fans will love it. You think they will be griping about Oklahoma being too low on the USNWR listing? It would certainly calm the folks who don't like the big eastern move of the Big Ten.

The Presidents and Delany could sell the acquisition and keeping Oklahoma out of the hands of the PAC or the SEC would be worth it in itself.

The Big Ten ISNT getting Texas. Folks need to just get over that. So after them it is Kansas and Oklahoma that are the best two prospects from the Big 12. You can sit here and find little reasons to poo poo on that but people that get **** done find reasons to sell ideas and there is plenty to sell Oklahoma on when it comes to taking two schools from the Big 12.

(06-26-2014 10:02 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-21-2014 02:50 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-21-2014 02:34 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-21-2014 09:37 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-20-2014 09:33 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If the problem of finding homes for everyone in the Big 12 could be solved, I have no doubt that the Presidents of the Big Ten would sign on for Oklahoma.

Seems likely the Presidents of Wisconsin and That School Up North wouldn't, not unless it was part of a package deal to get Texas.

they signed off on Nebraska despite being major proponents of pushing Nebraska out of the AAU.

They have already shown they will make exception for major brands and Oklahoma is a major brand. We are not likely to agree on this and I do believe that Nebraska is evidence in my corner, not yours.

UNL is an academic outlier in the b10 no doubt. but the gap in academic ranking between UNL and the next closest B10 school is half of that of OU.

When they are gained through the disintegration of the Big 12 along with Kansas, it wont be seen in this light that you are trying to portray it in.

Delany can easily make a strong argument for taking Oklahoma in that situation.

If these folks know its inevitable, it then becomes about denying the competition the top brands as it is about gaining those that best fit your conference. ACC and Louisville is proof of that.
B10 wants both AAU membership and great market.
That leaves UVA,UNC,GaTECH and UT
UCONN has neither U Kansas has AAU membership but a weak market

If Delany can sell the Presidents on Oklahoma in private then they absolutely will fashion some form of public statement about the positives of Oklahoma on the academic side in order to sell the acquisition despite whatever shortfalls there may be.

Fans will love it. You think they will be griping about Oklahoma being too low on the USNWR listing? It would certainly calm the folks who don't like the big eastern move of the Big Ten.

The Presidents and Delany could sell the acquisition and keeping Oklahoma out of the hands of the PAC or the SEC would be worth it in itself.

The Big Ten ISNT getting Texas. Folks need to just get over that. So after them it is Kansas and Oklahoma that are the best two prospects from the Big 12. You can sit here and find little reasons to poo poo on that but people that get **** done find reasons to sell ideas and there is plenty to sell Oklahoma on when it comes to taking two schools from the Big 12.

(06-14-2014 10:34 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Your thoughts on this.

No. They both have national fan bases in basketball, but neither state has enough TV sets to make expantion worth while. At this point it looks like the B10 sits back and digests for awhile. The next move won't come until two large population states to the South are somehow putn play. That could be UVa/UNC or Texlahoma. Either way it would take a prize of that magnitude to get the conference to jump.

The World University Rankings are out today and Rutgers was #33 in the world. UConn was #233, which is surprisingly low, but this sort of thing is one of the reasons why the Big Ten decided to roll the dice with Rutgers rather than roll the dice with UConn.

(06-26-2014 07:10 PM)Tigersmoke Wrote:  Would the big have any interest in byu? They seem to be going around with their dress pulled up begging for p5 inclusion. They could be snatched up in a new York minute. Do you all think they would be an asset?

No, the B10 is only interested in state flagship universities that are AAU members and playing big time sports in big population states. BYU doesn't fit that bill in any way.

No on Kansas, UConn or Oklahoma; not enough TV sets or in areas of strong football or hoops recruiting. Georgia Tech (Atlanta market, strong Georgia talent base) and Miami (their academics are improving) and getting into Florida would be huge for the B10. Miami's attendance in the ACC has been average at best but imagine how well they would draw playing in a division with Ohio State, Michigan & Penn State. Lots of B10 alums in FLorida also. Those 2 programs would be more attractive than either Kansas, Oklahome or UConn.

(07-26-2014 04:13 AM)Policiious Wrote:  No on Kansas, UConn or Oklahoma; not enough TV sets or in areas of strong football or hoops recruiting. Georgia Tech (Atlanta market, strong Georgia talent base) and Miami (their academics are improving) and getting into Florida would be huge for the B10. Miami's attendance in the ACC has been average at best but imagine how well they would draw playing in a division with Ohio State, Michigan & Penn State. Lots of B10 alums in FLorida also. Those 2 programs would be more attractive than either Kansas, Oklahome or UConn.

I see your logic on Kansas and UConn. But Oklahoma is a true powerhouse in football and a true bridge to Texas talent.

(07-26-2014 04:13 AM)Policiious Wrote:  No on Kansas, UConn or Oklahoma; not enough TV sets or in areas of strong football or hoops recruiting. Georgia Tech (Atlanta market, strong Georgia talent base) and Miami (their academics are improving) and getting into Florida would be huge for the B10. Miami's attendance in the ACC has been average at best but imagine how well they would draw playing in a division with Ohio State, Michigan & Penn State. Lots of B10 alums in FLorida also. Those 2 programs would be more attractive than either Kansas, Oklahome or UConn.

Georgia Tech wouldn't improve recruiting if it was in the Big Ten UNLESS it went along with a large contingent of southern schools to the Big Ten.

That is why I only ever hypothesized about a 20 team Big Ten when it came to anything other than Maryland joining the Big Ten from the ACC.

If Georgia Tech tried that alone, they would be seen more as traitors in the South. If anything that move would harm Georgia Tech recruiting more than it would help any northern recruiting in the South. GT would be foolish to make that move unless they were following previous moves of other ACC schools and North Carolina already made it clear they are not interested in either the Big Ten or the SEC.

You could very well be right regarding Georgia Tech however a large contingent of the U's student body is from Northern States. Nearly 5% of a recent Miami Freshman class was from Illinois and I'm sure a higher number than that come from PA, NJ & NY. Joining the B10 would not hurt their recruting and with the large B10 alumni bases in Florida, Miami's home attendance will improve.

I believe not inviting Mizzou was a major mistake. A state with 2 large metro regions (St Louis & KC) the only major university in a state that is in the top 20 most populous. So adding Missouri along with Maryland and Rutgers gives the conference an uneven number of teams, it worked just fine for 20 years when PSU was added to the Big 10 to make 11.

(07-28-2014 03:15 AM)Policiious Wrote:  You could very well be right regarding Georgia Tech however a large contingent of the U's student body is from Northern States. Nearly 5% of a recent Miami Freshman class was from Illinois and I'm sure a higher number than that come from PA, NJ & NY. Joining the B10 would not hurt their recruting and with the large B10 alumni bases in Florida, Miami's home attendance will improve.

Actually, there probably is some truth to this. Miami pulls pretty significantly from the midwest and northeast combine that with Big Ten alumni living in South Florida it would help their home attendance issues. Having an on-campus stadium or a stadium close to campus would also be a huge boon for them. Miami hasn't been able to recruit NJ/PA as effectively since joining the ACC. They always augmented Florida recruiting with fairly heavy NJ/PA recruiting.

Recruiting in PA & NJ would be easier for Miami if they regularly scheduled teams from those states which would happen every year in the B10. The B10 would go a long way toward solving their attendance issues. Besides all the B10 alums in South Florida; OSU, Michigan & PSU travel well and would play Miami every year. When Iowa & Nebraska have a road game in Miami you can bank on Hawkeye & Cornhusker fans showing up big especially if it's a game the weekend before or after Tday.

(07-29-2014 12:39 AM)Policiious Wrote:  Recruiting in PA & NJ would be easier for Miami if they regularly scheduled teams from those states which would happen every year in the B10. The B10 would go a long way toward solving their attendance issues. Besides all the B10 alums in South Florida; OSU, Michigan & PSU travel well and would play Miami every year. When Iowa & Nebraska have a road game in Miami you can bank on Hawkeye & Cornhusker fans showing up big especially if it's a game the weekend before or after Tday.

Actually, one thing you'll find out pretty quickly and be pleasantly surprised about is that Rutgers travels well especially considering the size of the diehard fanbase. And FWIW we have a series with Miami later in the decade.

(07-26-2014 04:13 AM)Policiious Wrote:  No on Kansas, UConn or Oklahoma; not enough TV sets or in areas of strong football or hoops recruiting. Georgia Tech (Atlanta market, strong Georgia talent base) and Miami (their academics are improving) and getting into Florida would be huge for the B10. Miami's attendance in the ACC has been average at best but imagine how well they would draw playing in a division with Ohio State, Michigan & Penn State. Lots of B10 alums in FLorida also. Those 2 programs would be more attractive than either Kansas, Oklahome or UConn.

What? UConn is arguably in one of the STRONGEST areas of hoop recruiting. There is a reason that UConn is "Guard U" and gets all of the talented guards that win us national championships. We have NYC and Boston within arms reach over each CT border and the cities of Connecticut (Hartford, New Haven, Bridgeport, Stamford) are full of basketball talent!

Connecticut is a weak area for football recruiting. Hoop is a different animal.