(08-02-2014 10:51 PM)opossum Wrote: (08-02-2014 08:22 AM)TerryD Wrote: There is no way in hell that ND would agree to the loss of the USC, Stanford and Navy games every year, no matter what.
The ACC would have to adjust for that, just as I am suggesting they should for Pitt.
Purdue? The hell with Purdue. I hope ND never plays them again in the future.
Independent=having the ability to play schools from every P5 conference and play all over the country.
Five ACC games per year hamstrings that ability. But, so it goes, the ACC deal was a good one for both sides.
However, more than five games is not the deal and hampers independence.
It would constrict ND's ability to schedule Arizona State and Georgia, for example. No sale.
The limit is five ACC games per season. That is bad enough. Six or more is not acceptable. There is no "ND fan adjusting" required.
The ACC could make Pitt an annual ND game that counts towards the five game requirement.
Therefore, it is not strictly an ND deal regarding Pitt as you want to make it out to be.
I think you misunderstand Notre Dame's end of the bargain. It is not solely for five games, it is for five games that are scheduled to rotate through the rest of the ACC on a more or less equal basis. All 14 full football schools play Notre Dame at least 4 years out of 12, two home and two away, over 12 years. Like it or not, that's the deal. No double home and away, there would have been no deal.
You're like the guy holding a gun to his head saying "stop or I'll shoot." You've played Pitt every year for what, eighty years? A hundred years? Anyway, the Pitt game has been a part of Notre Dame tradition for a very long time. Note I said Notre Dame tradition. It's also a Pitt tradition. It has only been an ACC tradition for one game, and I couldn't even tell you who won it without looking it up. I hope it was Pitt.
The ACC certainly isn't going to incur great costs (less than a double home and away for everyone in the league) to preserve a rivalry and tradition that Notre Dame itself won't even incur minimal costs (AT MOST 8 nonconference slots - but as few as four - over 12 years playing a team that up until this petulance NOTRE DAME WANTED TO PLAY EVERY YEAR) to preserve.
It's just goofy. They're your rivals. It's your responsibility to maintain the rivalries you want to maintain. Expecting others including Duke (which has absolutely no interest whatsoever in how often Pitt and Notre Dame play, I didn't even know it was a thing until Pitt got the invite) to pay a lot to preserve YOUR rivalries when you are publicly and visibly refusing to lift a finger to do so is the height of arrogance. Don't blame others for not incurring great costs to provide a benefit to you that you won't pay a dime for. Education in the original sense of the word is all about leading people away from that mentality, and towards a more ethical and responsible grounding.
I'm starting to think that the people who place the most importance in the concept of a "conference" are Notre Dame fans. I really at bottom don't care what conference Duke is in, or if Duke is in a conference at all. I care about what teams Duke plays. That's why TerryD's, and apparently Notre Dame's, attitude about playing Pitt is so alien and jarring (and fascinating) to me. It's the same appeal as reality tv, people behaving in completely irrational and self-destructive ways and acting like it's the most normal thing in the world. I consider this thread to be my first deep-dive introduction to Notre Dame's mindset, despite a few exchanges with TerryD and others in the past, so I say: welcome, Notre Dame; this will be fun to watch.
And don't forget that this is not the 2005-2012 Big East. Notre Dame is dealing with equals now, and you don't have any non-football schools looking out for you. Show us your education and adjust.
This post approaches the Gibberish Zone. Can you translate it into English for me?
I don't really care if ND plays Pitt every year.
Actually, they have not played every year, historically.
Besides, that game is way more important to Pitt fans than ND fans.
You seem to not understand that. It is not that important to ND.
The Irish just jettisoned Michigan to stay independent and make the ACC deal work.
What makes you think that they care all that much about the Pitt series?
ND played Michigan State and Purdue every year, now they are off the schedule.
If no annual or almost annual Pitt game, it will be a bigger loss to Pitt than ND. It is a nice, traditional game and used to be a good recruiting ground.
But that is all it is, and the Western Pennsylvania recruiting grounds have dried up fairly much in recent years.
It is way more important to Pitt because it was a guaranteed sellout at Pitt Stadium and, more importantly, at Heinz Field in recent years. Pitt historically has trouble selling out games unless ND, WVU or Penn State visit.
(I was born and raised 35 miles southeast of Pittsburgh so I know about the area and the Pitt/ND history).
Pitt is not really a "rival" in the minds of ND fans. It has been a good series recently and historically, but so it goes.
Michigan was more of a rival and they were tossed aside. The only games ND wants to keep every year are Southern Cal, Stanford and Navy.
What is important to ND fans is to NEVER join a football conference and NEVER play more than FIVE ACC games per year.
(I cannot stress this point enough).
That is the point you seem to miss. If the Pitt series is a casualty of the ACC pact, then so be it.
But, to try to argue that the end of the annual Pitt/ND game is all ND's fault is just completely incorrect.
I understand the ACC/ND deal, at least for the first three years.
I think that you are going to be surprised after that. It will likely not be an equal rotation.
I don't care either way as long as it is never more than five games per year.
As long as ND stays independent, it will always find good teams to play.
I feel bad for the Pitt fans, but the ACC deal is a huge part of this issue, not just ND.