A good coach helps too, Wilkie.

:shhh: But you will never be able to be the good coach without studs!

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Omni, I understand your logic about there not being four good teams to add, but it just doesn't hold water. Three of the Big East's top teams this year were former CUSA schools. You just might be surprised how ECU, Memphis, UCF, & Marshall might perform after a couple of years in a BCS conference.

It's about, commitment, markets, potential, bowls and fanbase.

In another thread I said that if the BE can't get other BCS teams to consider jumping leagues, the football teams split and add ECU as #9.

ECU brings new markets to the BE and has a solid fanbase. They are making the commitment and would secure the Tire Bowl so that the Navy thing never happens again.

UCF's addition in the very near future only hurts USF's development. The Bulls need to continue to separate themselves from the Golden Knights and start approaching Miami and FSU before UCF can even be considered for membership. Sad, because I love the Orlando market and its obvious they too are making the commitment.

Marshall's addition would only detract from West Virginia. And having two teams from a state which has very few recruits and even lesser markets would not be a wise move. Marshall should never, ever be considered for BE membership.

Memphis has been my personal choice for #9 all along - mainly because I am a traditionalist and believe it's their turn. But I don't see the commitment from the AD to vastly improve facilities. If this comes about (or has already come about, but I am unaware of it) then they might be considered as #10.

Cheers,
Neil

Omni, To me, Louisville was the only sure thing when the Big East plucked them from CUSA. Both USF & Cincy had their pluses/minuses, just as ECU, Memphis, UCF, & Marshall. Everyone is posting how great it was for the Big East to have the foresight to select Cincy & USF. Who's to say that the Big East would not have been just as successful if ECU, Memphis, UCF, or Marshall would have been selected instead? I think if the Big East truly wanted to go to 12, they would be fine adding the 4 schools I mentioned. With the right coach in place, any of those schools could have been just as successful as USF & Cincy.

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Omni, To me, Louisville was the only sure thing when the Big East plucked them from CUSA. Both USF & Cincy had their pluses/minuses, just as ECU, Memphis, UCF, & Marshall. Everyone is posting how great it was for the Big East to have the foresight to select Cincy & USF. Who's to say that the Big East would not have been just as successful if ECU, Memphis, UCF, or Marshall would have been selected instead? I think if the Big East truly wanted to go to 12, they would be fine adding the 4 schools I mentioned. With the right coach in place, any of those schools could have been just as successful as USF & Cincy.

I have waffled on this IF the Big East were to expand to 9 schools and could not get Maryland, Boston College or Penn State.

At first I wanted Memphis but like someone said the commitment level is not a sure thing and another poster is right about UCF they would hurt USF growth.

IF the Big East went to 9 Football Members the choice is the school with decent facilities and a rabid fan base that already has a relationship with many of the current Big East members and that is East Carolina.

brista21 Wrote:Even given my bitterness towards the ACC and several of its schools, I would never want to see the league go belly up. I would want to see BC come crawling back home and I think they will in a few years as the money wasn't as good as promised and the travel costs just prove to be too high and the BE they thought would die has not only survived but is stronger than it ever was with Miami as the top dog. I'd also like to see Maryland come north with the rivalries they used to have with Penn State, Pitt, WVU, and Cuse become active again. I think those rivalries did and still do mean more to Maryland fans than their basketball rivalries with Duke and UNC. I also think due to proximity and similarity a huge rivalry with Rutgers is possible. However I'm far less certain that this would happen than BC's eventual homecoming. I mean BC would have been the 4th horse in the rivalry between Connecticut, Syracuse, and Rutgers. Maryland would end up having great rivalries with those 4 and Pitt and WVU. I think if these 10 ever were put together and the league and its fanbases continue to develop the way I think they will we could then lure Penn State back east where they belong. The real question will be whether or not Temple has improved and improved enough to warrant their inclusion. I for one certainly hope so.

I think a scenerio like this could be possible, but it's not necessarily likely. Obviously, it will require a split from the non-football schools -- there's no way PSU would join a mixed conference and I think the other schools would prefer an all sports one as well. Concessions would have to be made to PSU -- letting them keep extra bowl revenue and/or TV money (similar deals were made to Miami(FL) to get them to originally join the ig East) -- but I think that would be worth it because PSU would increase attendance and TV time at the various Big East schools.

Ideal world IMHO would be to get BC/UMD/PSU to join and use that to lure Notre Dame as well (again, offering concessions, like letting them keep their TV deal and money from NBC) to get to 12 teams and a championship game.

a) If I hadn't made it clear already, because it has certainly been implied for some time now, the BE has definitely been the better football conference this season. I'm thrilled for Schiano and Rutgers and hope they can keep things moving in the right direction. Hell, even Syracuse has matured.

b) Neil is correct in naming coaching woes as the main cause. Just witness that Coker, Amato, Bunting and Bowden #4 are now on the way out, and perhaps the only reason Ted Roof will remain at Duke is because of realistic expectations and knowing it'd be stupid to search for a coach at the same time as your neighbors at NCSU and UNC. FSU will be better, VT seems to have recovered from their 2 game meltdown, and Freidgen has shown some progress this year now that he's at the helm.

c) Swagger's punchline says it all. The only thing I loathe more than Reggie Ball's play is the fact that the Tech coaching staff has been unable to improve this situation for 4 years? Anyone who saw the GT-UGA game has to feel sympathy for Calvin Johnson: The only reason he has to make dramatic catches is because he's seemingly never had the ball thrown to his numbers. (Note to CBS broadcast crew: When CJ can't reach a ball thrown behind and 4 feet above him that's not because of the "divine and superior" SEC defensive coverage. dumb***. )

SideshowBob Wrote:

brista21 Wrote:Even given my bitterness towards the ACC and several of its schools, I would never want to see the league go belly up. I would want to see BC come crawling back home and I think they will in a few years as the money wasn't as good as promised and the travel costs just prove to be too high and the BE they thought would die has not only survived but is stronger than it ever was with Miami as the top dog. I'd also like to see Maryland come north with the rivalries they used to have with Penn State, Pitt, WVU, and Cuse become active again. I think those rivalries did and still do mean more to Maryland fans than their basketball rivalries with Duke and UNC. I also think due to proximity and similarity a huge rivalry with Rutgers is possible. However I'm far less certain that this would happen than BC's eventual homecoming. I mean BC would have been the 4th horse in the rivalry between Connecticut, Syracuse, and Rutgers. Maryland would end up having great rivalries with those 4 and Pitt and WVU. I think if these 10 ever were put together and the league and its fanbases continue to develop the way I think they will we could then lure Penn State back east where they belong. The real question will be whether or not Temple has improved and improved enough to warrant their inclusion. I for one certainly hope so.

I think a scenerio like this could be possible, but it's not necessarily likely. Obviously, it will require a split from the non-football schools -- there's no way PSU would join a mixed conference and I think the other schools would prefer an all sports one as well. Concessions would have to be made to PSU -- letting them keep extra bowl revenue and/or TV money (similar deals were made to Miami(FL) to get them to originally join the ig East) -- but I think that would be worth it because PSU would increase attendance and TV time at the various Big East schools.

Ideal world IMHO would be to get BC/UMD/PSU to join and use that to lure Notre Dame as well (again, offering concessions, like letting them keep their TV deal and money from NBC) to get to 12 teams and a championship game.

Forget the concession garbage. Why would we want another case of Notre Shame on our hands. That's BS. You either want to be in the conference or you don't. Don't cater to anyone. We are all equal. Except for The Ville, who is head and shoulders above the rest. ;-)

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Omni, To me, Louisville was the only sure thing when the Big East plucked them from CUSA. Both USF & Cincy had their pluses/minuses, just as ECU, Memphis, UCF, & Marshall. Everyone is posting how great it was for the Big East to have the foresight to select Cincy & USF. Who's to say that the Big East would not have been just as successful if ECU, Memphis, UCF, or Marshall would have been selected instead? I think if the Big East truly wanted to go to 12, they would be fine adding the 4 schools I mentioned. With the right coach in place, any of those schools could have been just as successful as USF & Cincy.

Yes, that is certainly possible. But the individual success of one team sometimes hinges on having the upper hand over another.

When Cincinnati was in C-USA, there truly was no incentive for an Ohio recruit to choose them over a MAC team if said athlete liked the MAC school as well or better than UC. Now there is. And with them being a long-time rival for Louisville and being a Top 10 type program in basketball, they added something none of the other schools you mentioned could give the Big East. Plus they opened up recruiting in Ohio for the Big East.

Same with USF vs. UCF. Had the BE chosen UCF, maybe they would be experiencing the same amount of success as the Bulls are now. But having both in only divides the talent pool evenly between the two, causing one of them not to develop quickly enough to become more of a threat to Miami and FSU in the state of Florida. And the Big East only needed one of them to keep Florida recruiting open to the league.

Marshall was good when West Virginia was down. When the Eers started to rise the Herd started to fall apart. There truly is no need to ever, ever consider Marshall. No market, no recruiting base, no bowl, nada, zilch, get over it, they will never be invited (and I am a poster who usually hedges his bets and doesn't normally talk in absolutes).

ECU has survived being the 5th football school in the state of North Carolina for a long time to varying results. They have a solid fanbase, secure a bowl, open up the Tidewater recruiting region to the league. While I am not a big fan - particularly with what that scheduling stunt that they pulled on my Orange - but the fact is they are the most logical choice amongst the non-BCS teams east of the Mississippi.

Cheers,
Neil

Hell, I'll cave in and admit it as well...

Signature on file.

omnicarrier Wrote:

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Omni, I understand your logic about there not being four good teams to add, but it just doesn't hold water. Three of the Big East's top teams this year were former CUSA schools. You just might be surprised how ECU, Memphis, UCF, & Marshall might perform after a couple of years in a BCS conference.

ECU brings new markets to the BE and has a solid fanbase.

What market?! And don't tell me about that whole "Tidewater Virginia" thing.

Mongo, I guess in your mind ECU just doesn't have a market? You need to start looking at all those ECU bumper stickers that you drive by every day on your way to work. As you know, ECU is pumping out thousands of graduates that settle all over North Carolina every year. Those graduates end up getting married & having children. Maybe you could pull up ECU's tv ratings. That might give you an indication as to the size of ECU's market. It's time for all Tar Heel fans to understand that ECU is growing in student population, political clout, name recognition, etc. I just got back from my UNC grad of a dentist. He couldn't stop whining about ECU's new dental school. I just grinned. Mongo, you drank think pansey light blue koolaid as a youngster & just can't get it out of your system. Give credit, where's credit is due. ECU has better leadership than NC State & UNC-Chapel Hill at this time. In the end, it's ECU's great leadership that will continue to push ECU onto bigger & better things. Get used to it. As ECU conerback Travis Williams said after the NC State game, "NC State doesn't have to like us, but they have to respect us". Mongo, it's time you showed ECU some respect and refrain from the negative. It will make you a better person! ;-)

army56mike Wrote:Forget the concession garbage. Why would we want another case of Notre Shame on our hands. That's BS. You either want to be in the conference or you don't. Don't cater to anyone. We are all equal. Except for The Ville, who is head and shoulders above the rest. ;-)

While I'd fully understand the Big East's unwillingness to made concessions to get a school to join, I don't think there is any chance of PSU jumping to the Big East without some guarantee in revenue. Quite frankly, PSU would stand to lose tons of money making the switch to the Big East so unless there is some way to make that up, it becomes a losing proposition for the school.

MongoSlade Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Omni, I understand your logic about there not being four good teams to add, but it just doesn't hold water. Three of the Big East's top teams this year were former CUSA schools. You just might be surprised how ECU, Memphis, UCF, & Marshall might perform after a couple of years in a BCS conference.

ECU brings new markets to the BE and has a solid fanbase.

What market?! And don't tell me about that whole "Tidewater Virginia" thing.

Okay, I won't. But I've seen the market reports (as well as some of the ESPN ratings reports) and know whereof I speak. Anyone who knows my posting history, knows I have no use for the Pirates or Terry Holland and am personally dead-set against them being in the Big East.

Take all of it with a grain of salt if you choose, but I call them as I see them. Doesn't make my opinion right, but do understand that my opinion is, the majority of time, drawn from or entirely based upon research.

Cheers,
Neil

As a SU fan I would just like a conference with BC,PSU,Maryland,Pitt,RU,WVU in it as SU use to play these schools before the Big East politics were created.

I hope Cuse can sign long term OOC series with MD,PSU and BC since it seems those schools will never join the league SU is in.