(08-21-2014 12:48 PM)ken d Wrote:  I don't think you are doing the math right. Each tournament game played is worth roughly $250K/yr to the conference.

EACH YEAR for six years, rising to $300,000 ... its a unit share in a pool of money that gets larger each year.

Quote: 75% of that money goes to the team that earned the credits, and 25% is divided equally among the 13 members. So, if UMass didn't play in any games during the preceding 6 years, and the A-10 averaged 8 games during that stretch, UMass would get 1/13th of $500K, or a little under $40K per year.

Yes. But the A10 are not likely to average 8 total appearances over a six year period ... 8 games per year over a six year period would be an average of $12m+ NCAA unit revenue per year, or $3m for the equal share pool, or $230K per year. More conservatively, if this year was a high water mark, 6 games a year on average over the coming six years would be $9m total, $2.25m for the equal distribution pool, or $170K per school.

Quote: If UMass got invited twice, and won one game, they would have played in 3 games total. At 3 X $250K per game, X 75% for the participant, they would get an additional $560K spread over 6 years, or an average of an additional $90K per year.

You are dividing by 6 twice ... the $250K per game is each year OVER six years ... its already be divided by six, so you don't divide it by six again. If for an average six year span going ahead, UMass got invited twice and won once, that would be 3 x 75% x (starting over $250K rising to over $300K ) per year, or $562K to $675K per year. Add in the $170K from above, its roughly $750K-$850K per year. Add in the A10 TV contract, and that scenario is in the range of $1m-$1.2m/year .

This is just not far from what the MAC schools will be making from media revenues (TV contract NCAA units and CFP revenue share) over 2014/15 to 2016/17, ... the A10 revenue is less if UMass doesn't go back to the big dance, more if it has a number of appearances. But either way, barring a major step up in NCAA success (say, regular selection and a pair of Elite Eight runs), its less than the MAC schools will be making in 2017.

(08-21-2014 12:48 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Contractually, we were OBLIGATED to offer them an all-sports invitation. This doesn't mean that after new discoveries of CFP payouts and TV negotiations we still necessarily wanted to offer them an all-sports invitation. Big difference.

Yes, it goes from being a contractual obligation to something that the MAC would likely do but wouldn't be contractually bound to do.

(08-21-2014 09:23 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  As you know, UMass was recently given an ultimatum: join the MAC for all sports or you're kicked out. UMass decided to leave, supposedly because they wanted to keep playing A-10 basketball.

Does this mean that A-10 basketball brings in more money than MAC football?

The A-10 got 10 NCAA tourney credits last year. This site indicates that each credit is worth between 1.5 and 1.9 million (spread out over 6 years). They've averaged 8 credits/year over the past 5 years, so that's $12-17 million/year. Their TV contract is $5 mil/year, so they should distribute 17-22 million, or $1.06 - 1.38 million per school.

This site claims that the MAC's new contract gives them $650,000 per school per year. They've averaged 2 tourney credits per year over the last 5 years, ($3-3.8 mil total, or $250k-$310k/school), for a total of $900-960k per school.

Am I doing this math right? If so, it would seem that for UMass, basketball brings in a lot more money than football.

My understanding is nothing changes for mac until the end of this contract, ie 3 years then they get the big raise which will be north of 800k per team per year. Umass wouldn't make squat between now and then by being in the mac.

(08-21-2014 05:32 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  My understanding is nothing changes for MAC until the end of this contract, ie 3 years then they get the big raise which will be north of 800k per team per year. UMass wouldn't make squat between now and then by being in the MAC.

The MAC gets $12m+ from the CFP payout. That'd be $850k/school if UMass joined all-sports and started getting an equal revenue share (it's $1m/school, capped at $12m).

In 2017/18, the media contract bumps up to an average of $10m/yr over the following ten years, so with UMass in (plus a 14th), that would be $714k/school.

(08-21-2014 05:32 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(08-21-2014 09:23 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  As you know, UMass was recently given an ultimatum: join the MAC for all sports or you're kicked out. UMass decided to leave, supposedly because they wanted to keep playing A-10 basketball.

Does this mean that A-10 basketball brings in more money than MAC football?

The A-10 got 10 NCAA tourney credits last year. This site indicates that each credit is worth between 1.5 and 1.9 million (spread out over 6 years). They've averaged 8 credits/year over the past 5 years, so that's $12-17 million/year. Their TV contract is $5 mil/year, so they should distribute 17-22 million, or $1.06 - 1.38 million per school.

This site claims that the MAC's new contract gives them $650,000 per school per year. They've averaged 2 tourney credits per year over the last 5 years, ($3-3.8 mil total, or $250k-$310k/school), for a total of $900-960k per school.

Am I doing this math right? If so, it would seem that for UMass, basketball brings in a lot more money than football.

My understanding is nothing changes for mac until the end of this contract, ie 3 years then they get the big raise which will be north of 800k per team per year. Umass wouldn't make squat between now and then by being in the mac.

The new MAC TV deal is 8 mill per year and then moves to 10 million per year in 2017. Its about 1/2 the AAC TV deal per school but close in total value to the AAC across the length of the contract which is important to note.

The A10 basketball distribution is not as high as what some people on here are estimating. In 2012-13 it was only 8.1 mil split 14 ways. The MVC is only 3.1 mil in 2012-13 while the MAC is 2.2 mil. This was the amount paid out in 2013-14 to the conferences.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files...20Plan.pdf

Then if you are adding up the money UMASS would be making in the A10 vs. MAC its no question the MAC has better revenue sources.

A10
TV: 5.6 million
BB: 8.1 million
AE: 1.1 million
SS: 2.9 million
GA: 2.4 million
CG: 273k
SP: 423k
SA: 1.5 million
Total 22.3 million

MAC
TV: 8 mil
BB: 2.2 mil
CFP: 17 mil
APR: 3.6 mil
AE: 846k
SS: 1.9 mil
GA: 7.7 mil
CG: 273k
SP: 668k
SA: 2.9 mil
Total 45.1 mil

That is not even counting 1 million dollar payday games against the B1G for football that a MAC school can make or the increased ticket sales and marketing dollars of having FBS football (worth about 2 million per MAC school). The MAC is making about 7 million per school by having FBS football.

Compare the numbers to the Summit League

Summit
BB: 1.5 mil
AE: 635k
SS: 997k
GA: 1.3 mil
CG: 273k
SP: 232k
SA: 701k
Total 5.6 mil

The observation that for a lot of MAC schools if it wasn't for being in the MAC due to having FBS football they would be in the Summit League is not far from the truth. In the Summit they would be making almost nothing but having to spend 4-5 million on FCS football. Instead in the MAC they are spending around 5 million in football yet hauling in 7 million by virtue of playing at the FBS level.

The MAC is below average in NCAA basketball revenue with only 2.2 million they should be in the 4-6 million range in revenue as the MWC is at 6.6 million and CUSA is at 4.4 million but quite frankly the extra 2-4 million from the basketball fund is not that large in the grand scheme of things. The MAC is now upping basketball salaries to the 400k-500k range so that should help close the gap plus producing every basketball game under the terms of the new TV deal.

Regarding A10 money, we will be receiving close to 1 Million between TV and NCAA credits. In the A10 there is a 75% to team earning the credits and 25% to be split with the remaining teams. Temple, Xavier, and even Butler left their NCAA credits behind.

We need to get better with Football, the last two year experiment with a career assistant coach Charlie Molnar was a disaster. Thankfully we had a donor step up with 800K to buy out CM.

Winning should help and we are extremely young with 5 seniors on the roster and 3 of them are starters. The difference between the end of last season and the end of this season should be very noticeable. How much improvement in the OOC schedule is debatable, but looking forward to watching the progress. Expect to see better coach, some really nice plays and some mistakes that will be costly.

We should be a solid MAC team in our final year, middle of the pack.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's really nice to have 3 games back on campus but only one of them is a Saturday game against the MAC Conference Champs Bowling Green. One of them is black Friday when the students are gone and historically a very bad attendance day. The other game is a mid November night game.

UMASS will regret the decision to not join the MAC in the future. Honestly, being in a weaker conference would have given them a chance to win more games and get to the tourney more. And I don't think they would have had much trouble scheduling AAC, Big East, and A-10 teams.

(08-21-2014 11:44 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  UMASS will regret the decision to not join the MAC in the future. Honestly, being in a weaker conference would have given them a chance to win more games and get to the tourney more. And I don't think they would have had much trouble scheduling AAC, Big East, and A-10 teams.

You could be right and time will tell.

On a positive note we had a donor, who is rumored to have bought out CM contract had an article printed in the Springfield Republican.

Quote:By Martin Jacobson

We didn’t realize it at the time, but a half-century ago my family embarked on a business venture that ultimately resulted in the rise of the modern man cave. When wood paneling started to come into fashion in the 1960s, my father saw a need for a store that sold a wide selection of paneling and began a business called Mr. Panel. My brother, Dick, and I joined him; we were in at the beginning of something big. Mr. Panel grew to 63 stores and sold materials for the basement retreats that evolved into the signature, well-appointed enclaves of the 21st century.

Why mention Mr. Panel? As a passionate sports fan, I love settling in front of my big screen at home in anticipation of a World Series contest or the UMass Minutemen (my alma mater) returning to the NCAA basketball tournament. But, if we’re honest with ourselves, we know attending the real thing, seeing a game in person, can be a far more memorable, community experience. Despite the skeptics, I sense something big happening again, this time the emergence of UMass Amherst, our flagship state university, as a high-profile competitor in FBS football. But to ensure success, UMass alumni, students and the broader community must demonstrate their support.

So, I want to draw men (and women, too) out of their paneled enclaves this fall to Gillette Stadium in Foxborough and McGuirk Stadium in Amherst to cheer on the Minutemen. The first two years of FBS play proved difficult, the scores were lopsided and our fans discouraged. But a foundation was being laid, and fans are intrigued by the return of Coach Mark Whipple. Can he recruit, coach and cajole the Minutemen, Division 1-AA champions in his past tenure, to success again?

Dick and I will be there for the first game of the year on August 30 against Boston College at Gillette Stadium, one of the country’s best football facilities. We anticipate being joined by thousands of UMass alumni and other fans within close driving distance of Foxborough. Later in the season, three home games will be played at McGuirk Stadium and that is where Dick and I chose to directly invest in the future and importance of UMass football. We proudly donated $2.5 million to help erect a new Press and Skybox Complex at the stadium, and at the north end of the stadium you will also see a wonderful new football training facility for our student-athletes.

I studied business at UMass Amherst from 1964 to 1968, a golden age of UMass football, when McGuirk Stadium was new and students vied to build the most elaborate homecoming parade floats. Attending football games with my friends gave me memories I’ll hold forever. Although I now live in Florida, I still attend as many UMass basketball and football games as I can.

A game is a celebration that brings a university together. It provides a bonding experience for students; a reason for alumni to reunite; a way for the broader community to connect to the school. Athletics, I believe, truly helps the university as a whole by shining a light on its achievements. UMass Amherst has thrived in recent years with record numbers of applicants, rising admission standards, groundbreaking research, partnerships with business and the Commonwealth, and a building renaissance. An outstanding university like UMass Amherst should also be home to top-level athletics. And the truth is, athletic success increases visibility and school spirit like nothing else can. You truly can make a difference by coming out to a game or two and demonstrating support for the state’s flagship campus.

I became fully aware of the power of school spirit during my entrepreneurial days. After selling Mr. Panel, my brother and I started a business that manufactured and marketed licensed sports apparel. We were in on the beginning of something big, and our Nutmeg Industries created partnerships with the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB and major colleges and universities. Our business prospered because of the fans’ commitment to their professional and college sports teams, and the company’s success provided us the means to contribute to the improvements at McGuirk.

So, as someone with the good fortune to hear when opportunity knocks, I urge you to get in on the early days of FBS football at UMass Amherst. Get off the couch and into the autumn air, starting with the season opener with Boston College.

You’ll have a good time. And someday you can look back and say you were there when it all started.

Martin Jacobson is a University of Massachusetts alumnus, graduating in 1968 from the Isenberg School of Management

Guest viewpoint: UMass football program offers an opportunity for community bonding

(08-21-2014 11:44 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  UMASS will regret the decision to not join the MAC in the future. Honestly, being in a weaker conference would have given them a chance to win more games and get to the tourney more. And I don't think they would have had much trouble scheduling AAC, Big East, and A-10 teams.

I doubt that. I know that UMass doesn't want to return to FCS football, but they do have that as an option if all else fails. That being the case, there was no good reason to sacrifice most of the athletic department to move to the MAC.

UMass' basketball program isn't strong enough to survive moving to a one bid conference that generates no interest in its current footprint and has no exposure in the Northeast. There is no justification for changing conferences when the AD won't be better off financially, the university will be isolated geographically and the move is basically certain to bury one of the school's revenue sports.

Great article, Steve1981. Nice to see loyal supporters like that.

.

(08-22-2014 08:45 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  

(08-21-2014 11:44 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  UMASS will regret the decision to not join the MAC in the future. Honestly, being in a weaker conference would have given them a chance to win more games and get to the tourney more. And I don't think they would have had much trouble scheduling AAC, Big East, and A-10 teams.

I doubt that. I know that UMass doesn't want to return to FCS football, but they do have that as an option if all else fails. That being the case, there was no good reason to sacrifice most of the athletic department to move to the MAC.

UMass' basketball program isn't strong enough to survive moving to a one bid conference that generates no interest in its current footprint and has no exposure in the Northeast. There is no justification for changing conferences when the AD won't be better off financially, the university will be isolated geographically and the move is basically certain to bury one of the school's revenue sports.

Yeah, lets not cut anymore non-revenue sports, Temple's move to the AAC already caused a bunch to get cut.

(08-22-2014 08:45 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Great article, Steve1981. Nice to see loyal supporters like that.

.

Thanks, we certainly need it. Moving to FBS is a painful process, but very excited that we made the move. Have to thank Temple and the MAC for the opportunity.

(08-22-2014 08:48 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Yeah, lets not cut anymore non-revenue sports, Temple's move to the AAC already caused a bunch to get cut.

Temple was sponsoring too many sports and was sponsoring sports such as baseball for which its never going to have an adequate amount of land to host at its main campus. Other than men's gymnastics the other four sports they cut should have been dropped long before 2013. Temple still sponsors more sports than the rest of the AAC other than UConn and more sports than most MAC members. But that's really beside the point.

No sane AD changes conferences for what will amount to roughly a wash financially while simultaneously killing a revenue sport. The move was good for the MAC and while it makes things challenging for UMass to continue to sponsor FBS football, it was the right decision for them as well.

(08-22-2014 08:48 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 08:45 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  

(08-21-2014 11:44 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  UMASS will regret the decision to not join the MAC in the future. Honestly, being in a weaker conference would have given them a chance to win more games and get to the tourney more. And I don't think they would have had much trouble scheduling AAC, Big East, and A-10 teams.

I doubt that. I know that UMass doesn't want to return to FCS football, but they do have that as an option if all else fails. That being the case, there was no good reason to sacrifice most of the athletic department to move to the MAC.

UMass' basketball program isn't strong enough to survive moving to a one bid conference that generates no interest in its current footprint and has no exposure in the Northeast. There is no justification for changing conferences when the AD won't be better off financially, the university will be isolated geographically and the move is basically certain to bury one of the school's revenue sports.

Yeah, lets not cut anymore non-revenue sports, Temple's move to the AAC already caused a bunch to get cut.

What would UMASS have had to sacrifice?

(08-21-2014 11:44 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  UMASS will regret the decision to not join the MAC in the future. Honestly, being in a weaker conference would have given them a chance to win more games and get to the tourney more. And I don't think they would have had much trouble scheduling AAC, Big East, and A-10 teams.

Felt the same way about Temple. They had all the qualities to be a top notch, if not the best, overall MAC Athletics program. Is middling your way through the AACK better than being a consisitent NCAA qualifier in the MAC a better strategic goal? You'd be hard to convince me as such.

(08-22-2014 08:12 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  On a positive note we had a donor, who is rumored to have bought out CM contract had an article printed in the Springfield Republican.

I like UMass just a little more than I did in the past because you have an awesome alum who made his fortune in wood paneling.

(08-21-2014 11:19 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Athletic department accounting practices that show a "loss" for football and/or men's basketball are generally due to shifting around allocations of revenue and expenses-

I mention that a lot, but people tend to ignore it or not understand it. The reason so many ahtletci departments "lose" money is they pruosely spend the "profits" before the end of the fiscal year to create a loss. Now, there are some who actually do run specific deficits - cough Maryland - but many show losses so they can drive donations and keep their subsidies.

(08-21-2014 05:24 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Not to mention that you can become the next Gonzaga or VCU or Butler in a doormat, one-bid league. (Or at least the next FGCU or George Mason, etc.)[/align]

You know, only two of those made noise in one bit leagues, Butler and FGCU. Hell George Mason was the third highest rated team from their league and third that year to get into the dance the year they made the Final Four.

(08-22-2014 09:27 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  What would UMASS have had to sacrifice?

Men's basketball for one thing. Fellow A-10 members Duquesne and LaSalle tried joining a Midwest conference, the MCC, and it didn't turn out well. Duquesne returned to the A-10 after one season after realizing that they'd made a mistake. The MAAC wouldn't take LaSalle back and the five years they spent in the MCC did long term damage because LaSalle lost their recruiting niche and fan interest. They went from being a solid competitive program, similar to what UMass is currently, to an absolute mess. UMass isn't Memphis. The odds of them thriving in one bid MAC basketball are low.

It would also have been a really lousy deal for other athletes. The A-10 with a few exceptions is a bus league for UMass. Travel in the MAC would have meant busing to Bradley for Southwest flights and Chicago is the only non-stop destination in the MAC footprint on Southwest from Hartford. The amount of time spent on travel would have gone up a lot and athletes would have lost the chance to play a larger portion of their games in front of family and friends. Call me crazy, but I think an AD is obligated to consider the welfare of all athletes, not just those in revenue sports.

(08-22-2014 10:26 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  ....It would also have been a really lousy deal for other athletes. The A-10 with a few exceptions is a bus league for UMass. Travel in the MAC would have meant busing to Bradley for Southwest flights and Chicago is the only non-stop destination in the MAC footprint on Southwest from Hartford. The amount of time spent on travel would have gone up a lot and athletes would have lost the chance to play a larger portion of their games in front of family and friends. Call me crazy, but I think an AD is obligated to consider the welfare of all athletes, not just those in revenue sports.

Newsflash- travel for EVERY fbs conference is substantially more than it is in the A10. The AAC and CUSA have teams in TX and FL. Even with direct flights the travel time is still going to be greater.

So if increased travel is a non starter for UMass then why did they begin transitioning to FBS? If the answer is that they'll do it but only certain conferences (AAC or P5) then they are dealing with reality because that's not happening.

Basketball games vs Davidson, VCU, Saint Louis and Dayton - or Eastern Michigan, Buffalo, CMU and Ball State. Tough choice

(08-22-2014 02:18 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Newsflash- travel for EVERY fbs conference is substantially more than it is in the A10. The AAC and CUSA have teams in TX and FL. Even with direct flights the travel time is still going to be greater.

So if increased travel is a non starter for UMass then why did they begin transitioning to FBS? If the answer is that they'll do it but only certain conferences (AAC or P5) then they are dealing with reality because that's not happening.

True - If travel is a problem for UMass then they should have never attempted FBS. The MAC is by far the the most compact FBS conference and the simple fact is that UMass won't make it as an independent and they will have to leave the A10 sooner or later or they may as well just drop football now.

MWC - teams from Idaho to New Mexico
CUSA - Virginia to Florida to Texas
Sun Belt - New Mexico to Florida to North Carolina
AAC - New England to Florida to Texas


UMass sounds like Goldilocks .... "not too hot, not too cold"

Which FBS conference has the most reasonable travel for Umass?