SO#1 Wrote:Like you said there are not many recruit in New England to begin with so recruit must come from places like Florida, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Ohio.

I understand what you are saying but are there not many recruits in NE because there aren't many Div 1 A teams? There are only 8 Div 1A schools in New England + NJ + NY + PA + DE. There are almost as many 1A schools in Ohio (7) than in the entire North East! If there were more NE schools in 1A wouldn't that eventually lead to more 1A recruits by default?

Lolly Popp Wrote:Nobody is afraid that adding UMass would hurt UConn? They are very close to each other. And there aren't that many recruits in New England to begin with.

It's odd how so many people think adding UCF would hurt USF when they are just as far away from each other and there are thousands more recruits in Florida.

Think about what you are advocating. How can you be in favor of UMass joining when they would probably hurt UConn much more than UCF could hurt USF?

I've just mocked the recent expansion talk but since this is more about a why /how rather then a whimsical dream...

a) Any appraoch for UMass acknowledges the need for time, so UConn would still have the chance to continue establishing itself and presunmes UMass would be doing this in a proper manner;

b) One reason the northeast is humble in its supply of high school talent is the recent absence of major college programs. The same mentality that has fostered the plethora of small/private schools has also undoubtedly quelled some of the enthusiasm among athletes and fans. Now Rutgers and UConn are bringing the northeast deeper into the world of big time college football. Kids are exposed to BE games, they see the atmospheres, the facilities, etc, and realize their is a local outlet worth their attention. In time I imagine this wil raise the value of high school programs and slowly, more local kids will push to succeed and try to stay in the northeast, while more kids from across the country will consider the BE as a destination as well. UConn would not have made the investment if they didn't think the talent pool wouldn't expand. Nor would the ACC have made such a push for a northeastern presence.

c) The comparable value of increased exposure UCF would bring to the league may not be as much as what UMass could bring. UConn may try to represent the entire New England region but even in that there is a bit of a disconnect. Mass is 6.3M people strong, with another 2.3M in NH, VT and Maine. It's safe to say that having another sizable institution like UMass, one even further removed from urbanized NYC and Boston, would strengthen the idea that the region and culture are not only represented in the BE but play an integral role. While further diluting the presence of BC/ACC. And if point B is to really take flight, what better way then to monopolize the region now that BCS status (sic) is secure.

True, it could diminish some of UConn's recruiting, but with an eye towards the long term this could provide the most return of the two options. Not saying it's a definite, just outlining how it's possible.

zibby Wrote:

CollegeCard Wrote:What years were the Eastern 8 around?

The Eastern 8 is still around. It merely changed its name to the Atlantic 10.

The Eastern 8 started as the "Eastern Collegiate Basketball League" (ECBL) August 13, 1975 with Duquesne, George Washington, Massachusetts, Penn St, Rutgers, Pitt, Villanova, and West Virginia as charter members. In the 1978-79 season it changed its name to the Eastern Athletic Association and became known as the Eastern 8. The league changed in the 80's when Nova and Pitt left for the BE, and Rhode Island, St Bonaventure, St Joseph's, and Temple joined transforming the Eastern 8 into the Atlantic 10.

Lolly Popp Wrote:Nobody is afraid that adding UMass would hurt UConn? They are very close to each other. And there aren't that many recruits in New England to begin with.

It's odd how so many people think adding UCF would hurt USF when they are just as far away from each other and there are thousands more recruits in Florida.

Think about what you are advocating. How can you be in favor of UMass joining when they would probably hurt UConn much more than UCF could hurt USF?

Good point.

HISTORY

The genesis of this tradition of success can be traced to March 2, 1975, when eight university representatives met in Harrisburg, PA, to discuss the formation of a new collegiate basketball association. A similar meeting was also held on May 23 of that year, with the final formation of the Eastern Collegiate Basketball League announced on August 13, 1975. The NCAA granted allied affiliation status upon the ECBL on October 15, 1975, and granted the league an automatic berth to the NCAA Tournament on June 17, 1976.

The ECBL began operation at the start of the 1976-77 season with Duquesne, George Washington, Massachusetts, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Villanova, and West Virginia as its charter members. Several changes happened quickly in the ECBL, the first coming in 1977-78 when the league changed its name to the Eastern Athletic Association - better known as the Eastern 8 - to reflect its changing mission. That year, the Eastern 8 became more than a basketball league as the men's sports of baseball, cross country, golf, swimming, and tennis were added to the championship schedule.

The next major change came in 1981 when the office of the commissioner was instituted. Leland Byrd, who had served as president and executive director of the league since its inception, as well as athletic director at West Virginia, was named the Conference's first commissioner and established the commissioner's office in Pittsburgh. Byrd guided the Eastern 8 through several membership changes as Rhode Island, St. Bonaventure, Saint Joseph's, and Temple replaced Pittsburgh and Villanova. After membership stabilized, the Eastern 8 transformed into the Atlantic 10 Conference with Byrd orchestrating the drive to make the league more broad-based as the women's sports of basketball, gymnastics, softball, tennis, and volleyball were added.

In May 1984, Byrd resigned as commissioner and was replaced by Charlie Theokas, who remained at the Atlantic 10 for 15 and a half months, bringing the league to national consciousness with his "Think Atlantic 10" campaign. On December 31, 1985, Theokas resigned to accept the athletic director's position at Temple and was replaced by Ron Bertovich, who officially assumed the commissioner's position in May 1986 after serving as interim commissioner following Theokas' departure. In eight years as commissioner, Bertovich expanded the Conference staff to better meet the growing needs of the membership and established the Atlantic 10 Television Network, which developed into a major regional outlet and won multiple Emmy Awards. In addition, he oversaw further membership changes as Xavier was added to the league while Penn State, Rutgers, and West Virginia departed. Furthermore, he continued the league's emphasis on broad-based programs as the Atlantic 10 expanded its championship list with the additions of women's cross country, field hockey, men's and women's soccer, women's swimming & diving, and men's and women's indoor track & field, as well as the reinstitution of men's swimming & diving.

Umass is further away from being successful in D1 A than Nova is.

Its just that the Nova people are smart enough to know they can't survive D1 A.

Honestly have any of you ever been to Amherst. That place is basically a town filled with Universities. Most of which are prestigeous Liberal Arts colleges. There's not going to be many people there to fill up the seats. You'd find more people interested seeing a broadway play than watching a UMASS game.

Also the school is in such financial chaos there no way they even have the money to move up.

Its not that easy to just throw hundreds of millions to get a football program to BCS spending levels starting from 1AA. People see Uconn do it and just think its as easy as making a sandwich. Uconn is a rare exception.

There's just so many things that makes Uconn special.

1. Uconn was the only basketball powerhouse not to be in a State with a professional football team or BCS conference team or even a D1 A team.

2. Connecticut is the richest state per capita in the country and it is also one of the most taxed states.

3. Connecticut has a special Budget system for Uconn. They treat Uconn much differently from the other state schools. Uconn has their own budget while the other states schools share one.

4. The situation financially at Uconn was a ton better than at Umass and considerably better than Nova.

5. There was a lot of support from the citizens for Uconn to move up (a lot of do with reason 1)

Hoquista Wrote:I don't think membership was 8 the whole time though as PSU left in 1979 to become indy

Penn State's other sports were in the A-10 right up until they moved to the Big 11.

zibby Wrote:

Hoquista Wrote:I don't think membership was 8 the whole time though as PSU left in 1979 to become indy

Penn State's other sports were in the A-10 right up until they moved to the Big 11.

I didn't know that... Thanks! That's interesting. So they only had the BB team as Indy for a few years. PSU did rejoin the Altantic 10 in BB when it formed.

Grade-A talent helps title chase

By Amalie Benjamin, Globe Staff | December 14, 2006

AMHERST -- Tim Washington remembers that, among his Syracuse teammates, Division 1-AA college football wasn't given much respect. They mocked it, looking at it as "a joke" filled with "guys that really couldn't make it." Since transferring to a 1-AA program -- like 14 of his University of Massachusetts teammates -- Washington has realized just how misguided that idea was.

With the caliber of play in Division 1-AA rising -- witness New Hampshire's victory over Northwestern and UMass's near upset of Navy this season -- it has become ever more crucial for schools in NCAA football's second level to attract 1-A talent. Whether they do that sooner (high school recruits) or later (transfer students), players must reach the field.

Because just as pro franchises use free agents, coaches in 1-AA can plug transferring players into voids, getting veterans of the college game and lessening the acclimation period for some freshmen.

"I look at this year's situation, we had a couple of needs where older kids could have come in and been good fits for us, either junior college or 1-A," UMass coach Don Brown said yesterday, before his team left for Chattanooga, Tenn., in preparation for tomorrow's national title game against Appalachian State (ESPN2, 8 p.m.). "When you can get guys that fill needs right away and you don't need to bring them through the development process, it helps you become competitive in a hurry. Those guys have made very solid contributions in our program that have lent to our success."

After adding 10 1-A transfers to their roster this season, Brown and the Minutemen have 15 on the team, though many haven't had extensive playing time. Some, though, are making an impact, including Atlantic 10 second-team kick returner Courtney Robinson (from UConn), A-10 third-team tight end Brad Listorti (Rutgers), and reserve tailbacks Matt Lawrence (UConn) and Washington (who transferred as a graduate student after finishing his degree at Syracuse). In all, 10 of the transfers have come from the Big East Conference, four each from Rutgers and UConn, plus one from West Virginia and one from Syracuse.

"A couple years ago, maybe not," Lawrence said of a school's need for 1-A talent to advance far into 1-AA postseason play. "I think it's starting to get that way. Everybody starts to transfer down, and you get more and more transfers. The league is starting to turn into [a branch of 1-A]. This year they even turned it into the Division 1 subdivision, instead of 1-AA. It's not a lower level of play anymore. It's starting to even out and balance out."

UMass, like most college programs, searches for players in four locations -- high schools, prep schools, junior colleges, and 1-A colleges. But players from 1-A colleges have something that others don't -- experience.

The transition, however, is not always easy. Because interspersed with a player's desire to tear through 1-AA competition and to reassert himself on the field, said Brown, can "come an arrogant attitude, like, 'I'm better than you.' "

But Brown quickly added that his current crop isn't like that. His 15 have banded together, helping to amass the 13 wins that have gotten the Minutemen to the brink of a national title. Fitting them -- and their desire and talent -- into available roster spaces has yielded a cohesive team, one that breaks ranks only to talk trash about their former schools.

"Definitely something to prove," said Listorti, who was stuck behind NFL prospect Clark Harris at Rutgers. "I know when I came here, that was the biggest thing with me, that's the reason why I came here. I always questioned myself. Can I be an effective player? You get to the point where you're not playing somewhere else and your confidence goes down. You really question yourself and you've got to prove it to yourself."

And, like all the transfers, to most everyone else. By coming to the Minutemen, they've given themselves another opportunity to show what they can do.

"This is a new breath of life," Brown said. "A second chance. They're certainly going to make the most of it."

And so, it seems, are the Minutemen.

UMass vs. Appalachian St.
What: Division 1-AA football championship
When: Tomorrow, 8 p.m.
Where: Chattanooga, Tenn.
TV/radio: ESPN2, WATD (95.9)

Amalie Benjamin can be reached at abenjamin@globe.com.

Please don't move to I-A
Thursday, December 14, 2006


Trustees at the University of Massachusetts are considering a new feasibility study on elevating its Division I-AA football team to I-A status.


Who said reruns aren't popular?


Here we go again, giving a magical season the backdrop of, nah, we can do even better. UMass lost $2.93 million on football last year, the reddest ink for any public university in I-AA.


Even the Minutemen's spot in tomorrow night's national championship game won't make this year's totals much better, whether UMass beats Appalachian State or not.


So, is it such a waste of time and energy to reopen the Division I-A debate? Yes.


Former athletic director Bob Marcum looked exhaustively into this in the 1990s. Marcum worried the NCAA might eventually eliminate I-AA football altogether, a more legitimate concern then than it is now.


Current AD John McCutcheon has sensibly put his energies into making UMass the best I-AA program possible. The results (a championship team, bigger crowds, and the first home sellout in 33 years) speak to his success.


To play I-A, UMass would need a new stadium and access roads, more scholarship money, and more money for women's sports to cover Title IX.


It has no money for any of that. It also does not have a league, one of many reasons the popular comparison to UConn is inherently flawed.

UConn already belonged to the Big East in other sports. And the Big East is the only league that would make it feasible for UMass to even remotely consider I-A.


When I asked Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese about this years ago, he cited Boston College's Big East membership, and said UMass offered no new, major market the league didn't have already.

With BC gone to the ACC, I asked Tranghese Monday if UMass, which has a potential Boston presence, would have new appeal.


His answer: No.

"We can't afford to take a I-AA program that would have to build itself up," Tranghese said. "We're (also) not interested in taking a football-only member, and we already have 16 overall members. That's the breaking point.

"Anyone new would have to deliver a big, immediate improvement to our league - on the field, financially and with TV," he said.


A school can lose money in I-A, too. If UMass wants to study anything, it should examine how to cut its red ink in I-AA, yet maintain a top-shelf national program.


I don't know how that can be done, but it's worth a look.

Division I-AA will almost certainly lose money, though. Then again, if every university program (including academics) existed just to make money, a lot of them would be cut.

If the Big East felt differently about UMass, another look at I-A would be worth it. It's not.


I'd rather see the trustees and McCutcheon try to pare the losses somewhat, accept what's left as the cost of running an important program, and keep developing what we have - a premier Division I-AA team - rather than wistfully dwelling on what we don't.

Ron Chimelis can be reached at rchimelis@repub.com

Interesting article. I can't believe, however, that adding UMass isn't the least bit appealing. I mean it would take a while, but it would solidify the Northeast market. If there's a split, I think you leave C-USA as is and raid your biggest basketball competition: The A-10.
New Eastern Conference
UMass -A
UConn
Syracuse
Rutgers
Temple -A
George Washington*-A
-----------------
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
Charlotte*-A
South Florida
(*)Non-football
This gives you 10 fb members (so you don't have to worry about championship games knocking out bowl prospects), a much more managable 12 basketball members (w/ arguably the best basketball in the country), all while diminishing the exposure of the ACC and A-10.

Just for good housekeeping, that leaves 8 A-10 Catholic schools for the 8 BE Catholic schools to expand or combine with (FYI, there's 6 1-AA fb schools among those 16, a good start for sponsoring fb). Rhode Island and Richmond & any leftovers can split among the AE, Patriot, CAA, etc.

What are you drinking or smoking?

SO#1 Wrote:With BC gone to the ACC, I asked Tranghese Monday if UMass, which has a potential Boston presence, would have new appeal.

His answer: No.

"We can't afford to take a I-AA program that would have to build itself up," Tranghese said. "We're (also) not interested in taking a football-only member, and we already have 16 overall members. That's the breaking point."

The Commissioner has spoken. Definitively. Now watch how many people here will continue to refuse to believe what he says.

Its true until 2010. After that all bets are off, we could well see the split but that talk will not start until 2008 and will be onver by June 2009.

Quote:The Commissioner has spoken. Definitively. Now watch how many people here will continue to refuse to believe what he says.

-- The problem is he said something very different no more then a few weeks ago....If you recall Tranghese said at that point that the BE would not only consider a football only member but a 17th all sports member if it was "the right school"...he even went so far as to gurantee that a few schools could be voted into the league 16-0 right now.....so it sounds to me like its not so much no expansion...its no expansion for Umass or anyother IAA school


Jackson

Wilkie01 Wrote: What are you drinking or smoking?

What's so strange about Temple and UMass? I know at the present they would certainly be 9 and 10 in the pecking order, but as you said, this is several years down the road. These 2 bring back BE exposure to Philly and Boston and there's already history between the schools. As mentioned by another poster, the BE's momentum (ie. support for Rutgers) may be just the catalyst you need to energize the fanbase in these cities and grow these programs. Along with GW's DC market and Charlotte, you have solidified most of the major eastern markets and depleted the A-10 of 4 of their top bb programs.
I don't think there's anyway the BCS could challenge the Big East w/ that kind of hold on the northeast (before anyone responds that "they" couldn't hinder the BE at this point anyway, the scheduling problems alone should indicate to you that the other conferences are not going to do anything to help your position). Despite the BE's incredible year, the people in SEC, Big 12, and Big 10 country give the BE little respect (just read their forums or listen to their radio shows).
Anyway, I'm just a yokel on the outside with another perspective. Just thought I'd give a plausable scenerio for the future BE that doesn't include Penn St. or Notre Dame.

Wilkie01 Wrote:...we could well see the split but that talk will not start until 2008 and will be onver by June 2009.

Wilkie I don't buy that for a minute. There's already been more than enough "talk" about a split on this board. Hell, you start a thread with "split" talk every week lmfao

Krocker Krapp Wrote:"We can't afford to take a I-AA program that would have to build itself up"

Also flushes the Villanova to D-I football into the crapper if we're going that route.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

SO#1 Wrote:With BC gone to the ACC, I asked Tranghese Monday if UMass, which has a potential Boston presence, would have new appeal.

His answer: No.

"We can't afford to take a I-AA program that would have to build itself up," Tranghese said. "We're (also) not interested in taking a football-only member, and we already have 16 overall members. That's the breaking point."

The Commissioner has spoken. Definitively. Now watch how many people here will continue to refuse to believe what he says.

You guys are missing the obvious. Split is occurring. MT said it himself,
"That's the breaking point. The break is coming, sooner than we think.