(10-02-2014 11:19 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:03 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The real fun is going to be when about 3-4 years before the B12 GOR comes up, Baylor, ISU, TCU, KSU all start pushing for an early re-up from KU/OU and UT.

That's just wishful thinking, dude. By that time the SEC East will be dominant, and A&M will be in the basement. Texas will also be back in the spotlight, throwing their shadow over the Aggies, thanks to Charlie Strong.

speaking of....

(and you almost had it till you said "thanks to Charlie Strong")

Curious though, why is it wishful thinking to say that there is a strong chance those 4 will push for an early re-up of the GOR. It makes absolute sense for them not to wait till the 11th hour to find out where the others stand. That takes away any advantage they might have.

That's a good point, but the same lack of leverage they presumably have in terms of finding favorable non-Big 12 landing spots would likely also hinder their efforts to accelerate a Big 12 GOR extension. But since conferences don't operate in a vacuum, the question to ask may be what do the networks (and particularly ESPN) want?

Also, as has been pointed out, unlike aTm (which benefited by the presence of their hated adversary in Austin), there's no cover for UT, OU, and KU to make moves that would strand their "little brothers" in less favorable circumstances. It also helped Nebraska, Colorado and Missouri in making their moves that they had no such entanglements.

I'm guessing the ncaa is going to say yes in jan, so b12 will be able to have one if they want.

(10-02-2014 09:48 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  What a journey it's been!

Big 12 2011:

"Fine! That's no big deal! We're gonna get Notre Dame, Arkansas and LSU to join!"

Big 12 2012:

"Florida State and Clemson are really serious about joining us! Heck we might just take the whole ACC South if we feel like it!"

Big 12 2012 Reality

"Since we (Texas), realize that schools in the other power conferences have enough sense not to join our (Texas’) fractured and falling apart conference (Texas’ kingdom), we (Texas) will use TCU tape and WV welding to keep ourselves (Texas, OU, and everyone else) bonded together until the TV contract (life support) expires (gets unplugged). Oh… and about the GOR (Giving up Our Rights), this is so nobody (like OU and OSU) doesn't try to escape from Long Horn lockdown again….”

Big 12 Today:

BYU is never gonna work out, maybe East Carolina or South Florida or some other American team is available....

Big 12 Future

Baylor, BYU, CINCI, ECU, Iowa St, OSU, K St, TCU, TT, UCF, USF, WV

(10-02-2014 11:30 AM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:19 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:03 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The real fun is going to be when about 3-4 years before the B12 GOR comes up, Baylor, ISU, TCU, KSU all start pushing for an early re-up from KU/OU and UT.

That's just wishful thinking, dude. By that time the SEC East will be dominant, and A&M will be in the basement. Texas will also be back in the spotlight, throwing their shadow over the Aggies, thanks to Charlie Strong.

speaking of....

(and you almost had it till you said "thanks to Charlie Strong")

Curious though, why is it wishful thinking to say that there is a strong chance those 4 will push for an early re-up of the GOR. It makes absolute sense for them not to wait till the 11th hour to find out where the others stand. That takes away any advantage they might have.

That's a good point, but the same lack of leverage they presumably have in terms of finding favorable non-Big 12 landing spots would likely also hinder their efforts to accelerate a Big 12 GOR extension. But since conferences don't operate in a vacuum, the question to ask may be what do the networks (and particularly ESPN) want?

Also, as has been pointed out, unlike aTm (which benefited by the presence of their hated adversary in Austin), there's no cover for UT, OU, and KU to make moves that would strand their "little brothers" in less favorable circumstances. It also helped Nebraska, Colorado and Missouri in making their moves that they had no such entanglements.

But thats not the whole picture.

If I'm Baylor, I know no power conference wants me and I'm screwed if the Big 12 folds. So I want to start pressuring for re-up early for 2 reasons

1) UT may be looking around and I want to know if they are, this at least clues me in that they aren't 100% bought in. It gives me a chance to start trying to win the public opinion battle (see the hilarious "save Texas football" propaganda they tried last time) but to also start getting our politicians to work and law suits ready.

2) Even if I'm not concerned about UT actually going somewhere, I also don't want them being able to use the threat of going somewhere else to extort more concessions that are helpful to them but hurt everyone else. So the sooner I pressure them into re-signing, the sooner they cant make threats to leave if they don't get their way.

Finally, OU and UT definitely have cover for a move to the PAC if that move includes OSU and TTU. The Texas legislature isn't going to stick its neck out for two small private schools like TCU and Baylor as long as the two big public schools are taken care of. Now the KU-KSU situation I'm not so sure of but I have a hard time believing your state would would tell KU "no you cant go to the B1G because they aren't offering KSU a spot" but what is your perspective on how a KU-KSU separation could work?

(10-02-2014 11:03 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The real fun is going to be when about 3-4 years before the B12 GOR comes up, Baylor, ISU, TCU, KSU all start pushing for an early re-up from KU/OU and UT.

Yes. That date you are picking is on or around 2020 which coincides with the next 6 year bowl cycle.

There is no point to force the expansion issue in the B12 before that but it will be coming once the bowl and TV contracts open back up. Its just too much of a disadvantage in today's postseason landscape not to have a title game.

(10-02-2014 11:19 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:03 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The real fun is going to be when about 3-4 years before the B12 GOR comes up, Baylor, ISU, TCU, KSU all start pushing for an early re-up from KU/OU and UT.

That's just wishful thinking, dude. By that time the SEC East will be dominant, and A&M will be in the basement. Texas will also be back in the spotlight, throwing their shadow over the Aggies, thanks to Charlie Strong.

speaking of....

(and you almost had it till you said "thanks to Charlie Strong")

Curious though, why is it wishful thinking to say that there is a strong chance those 4 will push for an early re-up of the GOR. It makes absolute sense for them not to wait till the 11th hour to find out where the others stand. That takes away any advantage they might have.

Don't discount Strong. Once he gets his players in place, and discards all those kids unwilling to accept his standards, he will create a very good team in Austin.

But you're probably right about some schools pushing for an early renewal on the GoR. There are ACC schools that will be doing the same thing, I figure. The added security of having such things would make many schools feel safer.

However, you totally missed the fact that I was just yanking your chain. Hence the icon.

(10-02-2014 11:56 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:19 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:03 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The real fun is going to be when about 3-4 years before the B12 GOR comes up, Baylor, ISU, TCU, KSU all start pushing for an early re-up from KU/OU and UT.

That's just wishful thinking, dude. By that time the SEC East will be dominant, and A&M will be in the basement. Texas will also be back in the spotlight, throwing their shadow over the Aggies, thanks to Charlie Strong.

speaking of....

(and you almost had it till you said "thanks to Charlie Strong")

Curious though, why is it wishful thinking to say that there is a strong chance those 4 will push for an early re-up of the GOR. It makes absolute sense for them not to wait till the 11th hour to find out where the others stand. That takes away any advantage they might have.

Don't discount Strong. Once he gets his players in place, and discards all those kids unwilling to accept his standards, he will create a very good team in Austin.

But you're probably right about some schools pushing for an early renewal on the GoR. There are ACC schools that will be doing the same thing, I figure. The added security of having such things would make many schools feel safer.

However, you totally missed the fact that I was just yanking your chain. Hence the icon.

Bit.... It's good to have you back on the boards regularly (miss you moderating the Laughable Scores thread). With that said, I think Strong will be gone in two years. OU, OSU, and Baylor are too far ahead of Texas for Strong to catch them in a short period of time. The Long Horn Nation, Big Time Boosters, etc... will not accept two subpar years from Strong in my opinion.....

(10-02-2014 11:52 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:30 AM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:19 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:03 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The real fun is going to be when about 3-4 years before the B12 GOR comes up, Baylor, ISU, TCU, KSU all start pushing for an early re-up from KU/OU and UT.

That's just wishful thinking, dude. By that time the SEC East will be dominant, and A&M will be in the basement. Texas will also be back in the spotlight, throwing their shadow over the Aggies, thanks to Charlie Strong.

speaking of....

(and you almost had it till you said "thanks to Charlie Strong")

Curious though, why is it wishful thinking to say that there is a strong chance those 4 will push for an early re-up of the GOR. It makes absolute sense for them not to wait till the 11th hour to find out where the others stand. That takes away any advantage they might have.

That's a good point, but the same lack of leverage they presumably have in terms of finding favorable non-Big 12 landing spots would likely also hinder their efforts to accelerate a Big 12 GOR extension. But since conferences don't operate in a vacuum, the question to ask may be what do the networks (and particularly ESPN) want?

Also, as has been pointed out, unlike aTm (which benefited by the presence of their hated adversary in Austin), there's no cover for UT, OU, and KU to make moves that would strand their "little brothers" in less favorable circumstances. It also helped Nebraska, Colorado and Missouri in making their moves that they had no such entanglements.

But thats not the whole picture.

If I'm Baylor, I know no power conference wants me and I'm screwed if the Big 12 folds. So I want to start pressuring for re-up early for 2 reasons

1) UT may be looking around and I want to know if they are, this at least clues me in that they aren't 100% bought in. It gives me a chance to start trying to win the public opinion battle (see the hilarious "save Texas football" propaganda they tried last time) but to also start getting our politicians to work and law suits ready.

2) Even if I'm not concerned about UT actually going somewhere, I also don't want them being able to use the threat of going somewhere else to extort more concessions that are helpful to them but hurt everyone else. So the sooner I pressure them into re-signing, the sooner they cant make threats to leave if they don't get their way.

Finally, OU and UT definitely have cover for a move to the PAC if that move includes OSU and TTU. The Texas legislature isn't going to stick its neck out for two small private schools like TCU and Baylor as long as the two big public schools are taken care of. Now the KU-KSU situation I'm not so sure of but I have a hard time believing your state would would tell KU "no you cant go to the B1G because they aren't offering KSU a spot" but what is your perspective on how a KU-KSU separation could work?

As for the Kansas politics, I don't think KU can simply make a unilateral move now and leave KSU behind, even if it's in an otherwise intact Big 12. We may mean little to nothing in football terms, but being the flagship hoops brand does still carry some weight, and our departure would diminish the conference.

If it's all hitting the fan, however, and the Big 12 is imploding and the state faces a real possibility of having no school in a power conference, I think that KU would be allowed to take a P5 invitation even if KSU was not offered one.

(10-01-2014 09:18 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Four Divisions
NORTH
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

LONE STAR
Baylor
Texas Tech
TCU
Texas

CENTRAL
Iowa State
Cincinnati
Memphis
Tulane

EAST
West Virginia
East Carolina
UCF
South Florida

I think this would work.

(10-02-2014 08:48 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The B12 is currently the only conference that provides a round robin schedule in every sport every season. Nobody avoids anybody during the season. So there are no unequal schedules, as you find in other P5 conferences.

Technically that is not true. By the process of elimination the worst teams have the toughest schedules, and the best teams have the easiest schedules. But your point is well taken.

(10-02-2014 10:38 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  As we have learned from the old Big East, USF/UCF are much more valuable together than apart. I highly doubt they'll be separated again...ever. The BE should have added UCF, ECU, etc. a long time ago and possibly would be still around today.

No, it would not have. The only school that may have joined the Big East that might have held it together was if Notre Dame became a full member. That had slim to no chances of happening, but is the only team who could have held it together who had a snowball's chance in hell of actually joining. Other than that, no one that may have been added, who would have had to have come from C-USA or other non-BCS conference, would have kept any of the teams that left from leaving. If for no other reason, because nothing was going to stop Syracuse from accepting the ACC invite, and then the rest of the pieces would have automatically followed.

(10-01-2014 08:47 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  Yes this is just for the giggles...

Anyway, Big 12, if you're listening. Go and send invites to;

Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, South Florida, Central Florida and Tulane. This would leave no islands. There would be no outliers to whine about needing a travel partner, (Not that anyone is).

It would also double the size of the Conferences Footprint. The Big 12 is in only 5 States. You would be adding Ohio, Tennessee, North Carolina, Florida and Louisiana. These would be added to the present, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virginia.

Drop the LHN and get a real network so the conference can be truly strong and united.

I bet the Big-12 will get right on that!!!!

LMFAO!!!!

(10-02-2014 12:06 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:56 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:19 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:03 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The real fun is going to be when about 3-4 years before the B12 GOR comes up, Baylor, ISU, TCU, KSU all start pushing for an early re-up from KU/OU and UT.

That's just wishful thinking, dude. By that time the SEC East will be dominant, and A&M will be in the basement. Texas will also be back in the spotlight, throwing their shadow over the Aggies, thanks to Charlie Strong.

speaking of....

(and you almost had it till you said "thanks to Charlie Strong")

Curious though, why is it wishful thinking to say that there is a strong chance those 4 will push for an early re-up of the GOR. It makes absolute sense for them not to wait till the 11th hour to find out where the others stand. That takes away any advantage they might have.

Don't discount Strong. Once he gets his players in place, and discards all those kids unwilling to accept his standards, he will create a very good team in Austin.

But you're probably right about some schools pushing for an early renewal on the GoR. There are ACC schools that will be doing the same thing, I figure. The added security of having such things would make many schools feel safer.

However, you totally missed the fact that I was just yanking your chain. Hence the icon.

Bit.... It's good to have you back on the boards regularly (miss you moderating the Laughable Scores thread). With that said, I think Strong will be gone in two years. OU, OSU, and Baylor are too far ahead of Texas for Strong to catch them in a short period of time. The Long Horn Nation, Big Time Boosters, etc... will not accept two subpar years from Strong in my opinion.....

I think you're wrong and I'm right. But we shall see who's right in due time. It should be interesting to watch.

But impatience by fans and administrators has worked to a school's detriment before. Of course, an AD who is not very good at making important decisions helps there a good bit. Michigan is a prime example. Tennessee is another. But now that Mike Hamilton is gone, Tennessee should get back on track in no time. Michigan is another story.

In all seriousness, if the Big12 expands to host a championship, it will most likely be Cinci and BYU.

I think people are bored. However, I will play:

BYU
Cincinnati
Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida
South Florida

(10-02-2014 12:30 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 09:18 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Four Divisions
NORTH
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

LONE STAR
Baylor
Texas Tech
TCU
Texas

CENTRAL
Iowa State
Cincinnati
Memphis
Tulane

EAST
West Virginia
East Carolina
UCF
South Florida

I think this would work.

This would definitely require some significant brand-building in terms of how the conference is perceived. On the bright side, it would expand the footprint considerably, and a lineup like this which assumes a 3-2-2-2 conference schedule could allow everyone to be playing in or against teams from recruiting-rich TX and FL (and to a lesser extent OH) quite regularly.

OH RANDOM FLUCTUATIONS IN THE SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM!!!

The B12 has no desire to invite BYU, Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, Central Florida, and South Florida. FSU and Clemson, yes. But the schools being mentioned here, no.

(10-01-2014 11:30 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Does West Virginia really cry about being on an island?
All they have to do is turn their head and look at what became of the Big East and realize it should be happy and not complain.

The island / geography talk is ridiculous. TV markets are the driving force behind expansion.

Big12 will only add 2 teams to make it to 12 again.

U_F + Cincy = highest accessible tv markets. UCF/USF will have to battle it out again for the 1 expansion spot again. Neither will complain about the island its being put on because the alternative of staying in the American pales in comparison. USF should be used to it after being the Big East island for so long. UCF wouldn't care because for the first time it would be a member of the big boy table.

Nope, I haven't heard a peep from our people about it since the first season. There were some issues with basketball in the first year but those got corrected.

I've never even heard one of our fans complain about not being able to attend road games. With all the regional OOC games we have scheduled I think our fans are pretty content.

(10-02-2014 01:30 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 08:47 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  Yes this is just for the giggles...

Anyway, Big 12, if you're listening. Go and send invites to;

Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, South Florida, Central Florida and Tulane. This would leave no islands. There would be no outliers to whine about needing a travel partner, (Not that anyone is).

It would also double the size of the Conferences Footprint. The Big 12 is in only 5 States. You would be adding Ohio, Tennessee, North Carolina, Florida and Louisiana. These would be added to the present, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virginia.

Drop the LHN and get a real network so the conference can be truly strong and united.

I bet the Big-12 will get right on that!!!!

LMFAO!!!!

First off this was for fun. I'm guessing you failed to notice that while you were reading the cliff notes. Anyway, nice Sig. I especially love player #14 giving a shout out to the USF Bulls. *Priceless*

(10-02-2014 01:50 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  OH RANDOM FLUCTUATIONS IN THE SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM!!!

The B12 has no desire to invite BYU, Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, Central Florida, and South Florida. FSU and Clemson, yes. But the schools being mentioned here, no.

Don't be so bitter Bit. Your team got an invite to the Big Boy's table. Don't begrudge anyone else for wanting the same.

Anyway, I did say it was for fun. Perhaps you missed that.

And what else is a Kansas guy going to discuss right now - on-field performance?

Actually, with Weis out and Bowen in, I expect an uptick in effort - but we still have limited talent with which to work, so I don't expect miracles.