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Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
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RustonCAT Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
(10-06-2014 10:39 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 08:37 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 08:33 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 08:29 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Did the Sun Belt all get kicked out or something?

Expanding to 14 for all leagues wipes out 1 conference and the Sunbelt is the most likely one to be wiped out.

Not entirely. My math says there would still be a couple SBC teams without places.

Not to mention you'd have to convince the Big 12 that they need to add 4 G5 teams for this to work. Not happening.

This is why I said focus on the concept instead of who plays where.

The concept is where are teams playing. Can't determine a hypothetical champion if we don't know full conferences.
10-09-2014 04:37 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
(10-06-2014 06:07 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 05:40 PM)ken d Wrote:  The G5 is not equal, and does not "deserve" equal access to the playoff.

I agree with you that the G-5 is not equal to the P-5. Whether most G-5 programs agree with this or not, a separate division needs to be created for these programs while at the same affording it the opportunity to become a financial windfall and play for something meaningful.

At the same time, G-5 need to be given the opportunity to move up to P-5 status and not simply regulated to a G-5 division. Just like FCS programs can move up to FBS.

But just because the G-5 is not equal to the P-5 doesn't mean G-5 programs don't deserve equal access. The P-5 is a very corrupt group of programs lead by some very corrupt leaders. Not all P-5 programs but many of them. It is also a known fact that many of the G-5 programs would like to become a part of this group of corrupt programs and leadership for the money and media attention given to them.

The G5 is equal to the P5 just as Wake Forrest is equal to Florida State or Northwestern is equal to Ohio State. We might not all be equal in performance but if we're in the same league (FBS) we should be treated as equals.

Stay with 10 conferences, have bottom 4 conference champs play a play-in game, those 2 winners join top 6 conference champs for 8 game playoff. Done.
10-10-2014 04:42 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
(10-10-2014 04:42 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 06:07 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 05:40 PM)ken d Wrote:  The G5 is not equal, and does not "deserve" equal access to the playoff.

I agree with you that the G-5 is not equal to the P-5. Whether most G-5 programs agree with this or not, a separate division needs to be created for these programs while at the same affording it the opportunity to become a financial windfall and play for something meaningful.

At the same time, G-5 need to be given the opportunity to move up to P-5 status and not simply regulated to a G-5 division. Just like FCS programs can move up to FBS.

But just because the G-5 is not equal to the P-5 doesn't mean G-5 programs don't deserve equal access. The P-5 is a very corrupt group of programs lead by some very corrupt leaders. Not all P-5 programs but many of them. It is also a known fact that many of the G-5 programs would like to become a part of this group of corrupt programs and leadership for the money and media attention given to them.

Exactly. They are all in the same division.
The G5 is equal to the P5 just as Wake Forrest is equal to Florida State or Northwestern is equal to Ohio State. We might not all be equal in performance but if we're in the same league (FBS) we should be treated as equals.

Stay with 10 conferences, have bottom 4 conference champs play a play-in game, those 2 winners join top 6 conference champs for 8 game playoff. Done.
10-10-2014 01:11 PM
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robertfoshizzle Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
The concept of G5 conferences not being treated as equals really bothers me. Every conference champion gets a shot in NCAA basketball, and it only makes the tournament that much better. And who is to say every P5 champion is better than the G5 champions? In 2012, Wisconsin won the Big Ten Championship Game. They went into the Rose Bowl at 8-5 and lost to Stanford to finish the season 8-6. In what universe do they deserve a spot in a playoff, but either an 11-1 ECU team or 12-0 Marshall team gets left out because the G5 is only allowed one participant, or only allowed in with special circumstances?

I know 2012 was an unusual year in the Big Ten because of OSU and Penn State were on probation, but even in a normal year there is the possibility of an 8-4 or 9-3 team coming out of a weak division and pulling an upset to make the playoff. I am okay with not all G5 conference champions making the playoff, but there should be no limitation on how many can do so if they meet qualifications.
10-14-2014 01:57 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
(10-14-2014 01:57 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  The concept of G5 conferences not being treated as equals really bothers me. Every conference champion gets a shot in NCAA basketball, and it only makes the tournament that much better. And who is to say every P5 champion is better than the G5 champions? In 2012, Wisconsin won the Big Ten Championship Game. They went into the Rose Bowl at 8-5 and lost to Stanford to finish the season 8-6. In what universe do they deserve a spot in a playoff, but either an 11-1 ECU team or 12-0 Marshall team gets left out because the G5 is only allowed one participant, or only allowed in with special circumstances?

I know 2012 was an unusual year in the Big Ten because of OSU and Penn State were on probation, but even in a normal year there is the possibility of an 8-4 or 9-3 team coming out of a weak division and pulling an upset to make the playoff. I am okay with not all G5 conference champions making the playoff, but there should be no limitation on how many can do so if they meet qualifications.

The difference is that in basketball, the access is to a tournament, while in football it is to an exhibition game - or rather a number of exhibition games. And those exhibitions are bought and paid for by commercial interests who want to maximize their investment return. The fact is that even if all P5 champs didn't get invited, nearly all the time their spot in those exhibitions would be filled by another P5 school and not a G5. Why is that? Because that is what the public wants and is willing to pay for.
10-14-2014 04:38 PM
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robertfoshizzle Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
(10-14-2014 04:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  The difference is that in basketball, the access is to a tournament, while in football it is to an exhibition game - or rather a number of exhibition games. And those exhibitions are bought and paid for by commercial interests who want to maximize their investment return. The fact is that even if all P5 champs didn't get invited, nearly all the time their spot in those exhibitions would be filled by another P5 school and not a G5. Why is that? Because that is what the public wants and is willing to pay for.

I am talking about access to a playoff, not to particular bowl games.
10-14-2014 05:18 PM
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200yrs2late Online
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Post: #27
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
(10-14-2014 04:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 01:57 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  The concept of G5 conferences not being treated as equals really bothers me. Every conference champion gets a shot in NCAA basketball, and it only makes the tournament that much better. And who is to say every P5 champion is better than the G5 champions? In 2012, Wisconsin won the Big Ten Championship Game. They went into the Rose Bowl at 8-5 and lost to Stanford to finish the season 8-6. In what universe do they deserve a spot in a playoff, but either an 11-1 ECU team or 12-0 Marshall team gets left out because the G5 is only allowed one participant, or only allowed in with special circumstances?

I know 2012 was an unusual year in the Big Ten because of OSU and Penn State were on probation, but even in a normal year there is the possibility of an 8-4 or 9-3 team coming out of a weak division and pulling an upset to make the playoff. I am okay with not all G5 conference champions making the playoff, but there should be no limitation on how many can do so if they meet qualifications.

The difference is that in basketball, the access is to a tournament, while in football it is to an exhibition game - or rather a number of exhibition games. And those exhibitions are bought and paid for by commercial interests who want to maximize their investment return. The fact is that even if all P5 champs didn't get invited, nearly all the time their spot in those exhibitions would be filled by another P5 school and not a G5. Why is that? Because that is what the public wants and is willing to pay for.

If you create a true 12 team playoff, there's no reason it can't work within the bowl system. IMO 6-6 is not bowl worthy, it should be 7-5. Moving bowl eligibility to 7-5 would in most years clear up enough slots to make a playoff work within the existing bowl system. In my idea I'm talking about including just four guaranteed spots to G5 teams. The vast majority of the playoff bowls, and other bowls will be made up of 'high value' P5 matchups. Sponsors will still get their marquee matchups, plus a probable uptick in interest to see if a team from the G5 can make their way through a playoff.
10-15-2014 12:07 PM
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nobledictator1278 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
(10-15-2014 12:07 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 04:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-14-2014 01:57 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  The concept of G5 conferences not being treated as equals really bothers me. Every conference champion gets a shot in NCAA basketball, and it only makes the tournament that much better. And who is to say every P5 champion is better than the G5 champions? In 2012, Wisconsin won the Big Ten Championship Game. They went into the Rose Bowl at 8-5 and lost to Stanford to finish the season 8-6. In what universe do they deserve a spot in a playoff, but either an 11-1 ECU team or 12-0 Marshall team gets left out because the G5 is only allowed one participant, or only allowed in with special circumstances?

I know 2012 was an unusual year in the Big Ten because of OSU and Penn State were on probation, but even in a normal year there is the possibility of an 8-4 or 9-3 team coming out of a weak division and pulling an upset to make the playoff. I am okay with not all G5 conference champions making the playoff, but there should be no limitation on how many can do so if they meet qualifications.

The difference is that in basketball, the access is to a tournament, while in football it is to an exhibition game - or rather a number of exhibition games. And those exhibitions are bought and paid for by commercial interests who want to maximize their investment return. The fact is that even if all P5 champs didn't get invited, nearly all the time their spot in those exhibitions would be filled by another P5 school and not a G5. Why is that? Because that is what the public wants and is willing to pay for.

If you create a true 12 team playoff, there's no reason it can't work within the bowl system. IMO 6-6 is not bowl worthy, it should be 7-5. Moving bowl eligibility to 7-5 would in most years clear up enough slots to make a playoff work within the existing bowl system. In my idea I'm talking about including just four guaranteed spots to G5 teams. The vast majority of the playoff bowls, and other bowls will be made up of 'high value' P5 matchups. Sponsors will still get their marquee matchups, plus a probable uptick in interest to see if a team from the G5 can make their way through a playoff.


If your going to do a 12 team play off...I think you should give the top 6 conference based on whatever ranks those things.... should get a AutoBid for their champion.

and then maybe 6 At larges..

or

Top 7 Conferences and a 5 Autobids. Top four Ranked conferences should get a first round bye, and host the quarter finals.

The others should be ranked based on top 25....higher seed hosts first round match up.

Top seed gets paired with lowest remaining seed...etc etc.
10-15-2014 12:18 PM
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200yrs2late Online
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Post: #29
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
(10-15-2014 12:18 PM)nobledictator1278 Wrote:  If your going to do a 12 team play off...I think you should give the top 6 conference based on whatever ranks those things.... should get a AutoBid for their champion.

and then maybe 6 At larges..

or

Top 7 Conferences and a 5 Autobids. Top four Ranked conferences should get a first round bye, and host the quarter finals.

The others should be ranked based on top 25....higher seed hosts first round match up.

Top seed gets paired with lowest remaining seed...etc etc.

Basically my line of thinking. By consolidating the Sunbelt and having 9 conferences, six of which would be considered major, every conference champ gets a shot along with the next three highest ranked which in most years will be from the major conferences and in most cases what is today the "P5". The P5 gives up very little in order to get a truly inclusive playoff. Add to that the fact that more often than not the P5 teams in the playoff will be playing an extra game and their exposure and tv value goes up.

Top 4 get a bye and host 2nd round game.
Conference Champs host 1st round. If both teams in a matchup are conference champs, highest ranked hosts unless there is a head to head tie break.

The playoff aspect is actually the easiest part. Consolidating into nine 14 team conferences is the difficult part.
10-15-2014 02:05 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Nine 14 team conferences and a 12 team playoff
Quote:The concept of G5 conferences not being treated as equals really bothers me. Every conference champion gets a shot in NCAA basketball, and it only makes the tournament that much better. And who is to say every P5 champion is better than the G5 champions?

I agree. It's also about EARNING a playoff spot. You could have a conference champ not quite as good as someone else in their conference. Do you hand the better one the conference champ rings? No. Same with going into a playoff. #4 SEC -- are they going to be better than #1 Sun-Belt? YES. But that SEC team lost their in-conference playoff, behind two others.

The best (put in a book by an ESPN guy): 16 team playoff. You STILL have bowls -- even nice big ones outside of this. Here's my take on it (and tweaks):

All G5 and P5 Champs go. It makes the playoffs more exciting than an 8-team playoff. Add in cinderellas, add another round. When a Cinderella goes to 2nd round? Holy sh!!t.

10 Auto-Qualifiers: SEC, PAC12, B1G, ACC, B12 Champs + AAC, MW, MAC, CUSA, Sun-Belt Champs

6 At-Large:
- No More than 2 teams from same conference in all of playoff unless 3rd is Ranked in Top 8 -- 3 MAX in that case.
- Notre Dame (or other Independents) Must be Ranked in Top 16 for Guaranteed Birth - Only 1 Independent unless 2nd is Ranked in Top 8
- In by Highest Rank
- Two conference teams cannot play 1st round

PROS:
- Makes Conference Championships BIG -- no matter where you are
- Makes a team think twice about joining another conference or a conference expanding to 16 or even 14 (which is just for TV revenue)
- Adds Real Cinderella effect

CONS:
- It won't be Top 16 teams in the nation (but is the NCAA tourney the Top 64? No, nor does it aim to be.)
- More like Top 9 teams + other Top 12-25 + 3-4 unranked

IMO, the "CONS" are aiming in a different expectation/direction. Just because a tournament expands, doesn't mean they're trying to get THE top X-amount of teams there. You could have an 8-team playoff with the TOP 8, or you could go 16 to still have those Top 8 and then some, but those who EARNED A SPOT -- "wildcard" entries who earned a wildcard by WINNING their own reg-season "playoff".

Right Now It'd be (with assumptions of winners of CONF champ games by ranking now):

AUTO P5: #1 Miss St (SEC), #2 Florida St (ACC), #4 Baylor (B12), #6 Michigan St (B1G), #9 Oregon (P12)
AUTO P5: #16 E Carolina (AAC), #24 Marshall (CUSA), #37 Colorado St (MW), Georgia Southern (Sun-Belt), Bowling Green (MAC)

6 AT-LARGE: #3 Ole Miss (SEC), #5 Notre Dame (IND), #7 Alabama (SEC), #11 Oklahoma (B12), #13 Ohio State (B1G), #17 Arizona (P12)

(1) Miss State vs (16) Bowling Green*
(8) Oregon vs (9) Oklahoma

(5) Notre Dame vs (12) Arizona
(4) Ole Miss vs (13) Marshall

(6) Michigan St vs (11) E Carolina
(3) Baylor vs (14) Colorado St

(7) Alabama vs (10) Ohio State
(2) Florida State vs (15) Georgia Southern

Would you rather see THIS, or a 4-team playoff? Or even an 8-team playoff? I'd rather see THAT.

* In 2013, Bowling Green lost 21-20 @Miss State. Just sayin'. :)
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2014 05:39 PM by toddjnsn.)
10-15-2014 02:50 PM
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