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Flames and C-USA?
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #21
Flames and C-USA?
Not that we have any say in it whatsoever, and there is no expressed interest from C-USA... but, it seems to be a MUCH better fit than the Sun Belt.
There would be an instate rivalry with ODU. We share a border with WKU, MTSU, Marshall, and Charlotte. And there is one private school already in C-USA, and they have been a private friendly conference in the past. Plus they offer multiple Florida and Texas trips.
03-09-2015 06:00 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-09-2015 06:00 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Not that we have any say in it whatsoever, and there is no expressed interest from C-USA... but, it seems to be a MUCH better fit than the Sun Belt.
There would be an instate rivalry with ODU. We share a border with WKU, MTSU, Marshall, and Charlotte. And there is one private school already in C-USA, and they have been a private friendly conference in the past. Plus they offer multiple Florida and Texas trips.
All true and LU would have easier travel if in the C-USA. With them taking Charlotte which was purely a TV influenced selection, we can hope that they'll see the appeal of LU beyond our municipal market. Maybe this is one time the online presence can be an advantage. Would love to be a member of the the C-USA. Trips to Boca Raton and Miami with FAU and FIU would be very appealing, especially with the winter weather we've had.
03-09-2015 06:07 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-09-2015 06:07 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  
(03-09-2015 06:00 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Not that we have any say in it whatsoever, and there is no expressed interest from C-USA... but, it seems to be a MUCH better fit than the Sun Belt.
There would be an instate rivalry with ODU. We share a border with WKU, MTSU, Marshall, and Charlotte. And there is one private school already in C-USA, and they have been a private friendly conference in the past. Plus they offer multiple Florida and Texas trips.
All true and LU would have easier travel if in the C-USA. With them taking Charlotte which was purely a TV influenced selection, we can hope that they'll see the appeal of LU beyond our municipal market. Maybe this is one time the online presence can be an advantage. Would love to be a member of the the C-USA. Trips to Boca Raton and Miami with FAU and FIU would be very appealing, especially with the winter weather we've had.

I am pretty sure that Charlotte was a previous member of C-USA and they didn't leave on bad terms. And I agree that the C-USA line up is much more attractive with the locations.
03-09-2015 08:36 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Flames and C-USA?
C-USA would certainly be better for exposure and geography. But the Sun Belt is still a nice league for us in markets that skew Liberty-friendly. Either one would be awesome IMHO.
03-10-2015 02:15 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-10-2015 02:15 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  C-USA would certainly be better for exposure and geography. But the Sun Belt is still a nice league for us in markets that skew Liberty-friendly. Either one would be awesome IMHO.
The SBC, C-USA, MAC all and any would be a great benefit for LU. My preference would be C-USA - unlikely, SBC - more likely, MAC - least likely but any gets us FBS.
03-10-2015 02:22 PM
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Campaign4Liberty Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Flames and C-USA?
CUSA please!!
03-10-2015 06:46 PM
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Libertygrad01 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Flames and C-USA?
C4L, I agree. CUSA would be the best landing spot, but I think we're would be more competitive in the SB, at least for a few years.

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03-11-2015 08:02 AM
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Curtisc83 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Flames and C-USA?
CUSA would be nice but they aren't below 12 members so they will sit on an invite for awhile. One thing that I keep thinking about is how few FBS slots are open. Once those are filled where would a school wanting to go FCS to FBS go? Without another FBS conference being made move ups will be at a standstill for quite sometime. Another thing that makes me scratch my head is all the G5 schools wanting to move to a better conference. How would that even work? The P5 would have to become super conferences for G5's to move around with ease. Right now schools are pretty stuck across the board. Before going independent is mentioned I think that's a horrible idea. Bowls would be hard to get and the CFP would be impossible to break into. Also scheduling home games would be a huge issue.
03-11-2015 08:14 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-11-2015 08:14 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  CUSA would be nice but they aren't below 12 members so they will sit on an invite for awhile. One thing that I keep thinking about is how few FBS slots are open. Once those are filled where would a school wanting to go FCS to FBS go? Without another FBS conference being made move ups will be at a standstill for quite sometime. Another thing that makes me scratch my head is all the G5 schools wanting to move to a better conference. How would that even work? The P5 would have to become super conferences for G5's to move around with ease. Right now schools are pretty stuck across the board. Before going independent is mentioned I think that's a horrible idea. Bowls would be hard to get and the CFP would be impossible to break into. Also scheduling home games would be a huge issue.
Going indy is the last resort when all FBS invites have been exhausted. Only if there is no hope left, and if in a reasonable amount of time if no invite become evident, should indy be considered. If indy is the only path, then that decision should be made with conference membership as the immediate goal. Indy FBS is better than perpetual FCS. And of course there is no current means to go Indy in the present structure so that's a whole new kettle.

There is likely going to be some C-USA shifting with U-AB dropping FB. My guess is there are e few existing SBC schools willing to jump to the C-USA. The C-USA is perceived as the stronger, more upside conference, whether true or not, that is the perception. Fact is schools have been leaving the SBC to join the C-USA and not vice versa. I also hope LU lands in the C-USA even though the SBC seems the likely path. Many at ODU would also like LU in the C-USA.
03-11-2015 08:37 AM
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PAmedic Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Flames and C-USA?
not sure why people cant understand this:

GOING INDEPENDENT IS NOT AN OPTION

THE NCAA DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO MOVE UP TO FBS WITHOUT CONFERENCE AFFILIATAION

YOU CANNOT MOVE UP AS AN INDEPENDENT

not sure how else to explain this one. but it keeps coming up

YOU CAN'T DO IT
03-11-2015 08:41 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-11-2015 08:41 AM)PAmedic Wrote:  not sure why people cant understand this:

GOING INDEPENDENT IS NOT AN OPTION

THE NCAA DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO MOVE UP TO FBS WITHOUT CONFERENCE AFFILIATAION

YOU CANNOT MOVE UP AS AN INDEPENDENT

not sure how else to explain this one. but it keeps coming up

YOU CAN'T DO IT
In the current format yes. Change must happen before indy can be an option, IF it was the most valid optiion. It would be a more valid option if more than one school solicited the change.
03-11-2015 08:47 AM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Flames and C-USA?
It wouldn't take much of a lawsuit to get us up to the next level. Frankly we have an incredible case based on our capability and desire to be FBS being denied by exclusivity of an organization that has an Antitrust exemption. But is winnign such a lawsuit what we really want? Being an Indy that had ot sue its way into the club wouldn't bode well for us.
03-11-2015 05:38 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-11-2015 05:38 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  It wouldn't take much of a lawsuit to get us up to the next level. Frankly we have an incredible case based on our capability and desire to be FBS being denied by exclusivity of an organization that has an Antitrust exemption. But is winnign such a lawsuit what we really want? Being an Indy that had ot sue its way into the club wouldn't bode well for us.
Only if a period of time of years went by, and no invite came. If other teams were invited (ex JMU) before us and we're still waiting, how long would we expect the LU admins to sit patiently waiting. 3, 5 years or longer. The invite only by its structure is like a good old boy club set up. A fair way is set criteria, meet the criteria, wait for an invite, and if no invite comes allow a program to become indy and reduce the initial requirements for an easier transition.
03-11-2015 06:01 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-11-2015 05:38 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  It wouldn't take much of a lawsuit to get us up to the next level. Frankly we have an incredible case based on our capability and desire to be FBS being denied by exclusivity of an organization that has an Antitrust exemption. But is winnign such a lawsuit what we really want? Being an Indy that had ot sue its way into the club wouldn't bode well for us.

I agree with you. I believe it would be suicide for our athletic programs if we sued the NCAA to go independent in FBS straight from FCS. Then after we win a lawsuit against them, we have to get five schools to come to play us at Lynchburg a year. Who would want to come to our house to play us after we just sued them? And that's just football. I bet the FBS schools in the NCAA would be bitter enough to blacklist us for their other sports too. So if we go FBS independent, get excited to have some combination of UMass, Idaho, New Mexico State, an FCS school, and one other school to throw us a bone. The following year I don't know what we'd do because those schools (minus the FCS one) would probably want a return trip to their place.
03-11-2015 06:21 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-11-2015 06:21 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 05:38 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  It wouldn't take much of a lawsuit to get us up to the next level. Frankly we have an incredible case based on our capability and desire to be FBS being denied by exclusivity of an organization that has an Antitrust exemption. But is winnign such a lawsuit what we really want? Being an Indy that had ot sue its way into the club wouldn't bode well for us.

I agree with you. I believe it would be suicide for our athletic programs if we sued the NCAA to go independent in FBS straight from FCS. Then after we win a lawsuit against them, we have to get five schools to come to play us at Lynchburg a year. Who would want to come to our house to play us after we just sued them? And that's just football. I bet the FBS schools in the NCAA would be bitter enough to blacklist us for their other sports too. So if we go FBS independent, get excited to have some combination of UMass, Idaho, New Mexico State, an FCS school, and one other school to throw us a bone. The following year I don't know what we'd do because those schools (minus the FCS one) would probably want a return trip to their place.
No one here seems to be saying going indy is the first choice and that suing for membership is a good idea. Some seems to be saying it's the last choice if it's the last option.

If I understand you correctly, if no invite comes for LU, you would be content with LU staying FCS in perpetuity. 5, 10, 20 years or longer and you would be okay with FCS? I don't believe the school will stand for that.

A point to clarify, the NCAA would be the organization challenged, not any individual school. No school would suffer any economic consequence or embarrassment as they are not involved. It would be more like a challenge to a rule or agreement by a ruling body. No schools would be harmed economically or be singled out.

In a similar manner, 8 years ago when LCA applied for membership in the VHSL the request was denied. Two years later LCA again applied and was denied. LCA filed suite against the VHSL in June 2014.

Here's the N&A June article:
http://www.newsadvance.com/news/liberty-...f6878.html

This is pointed out to clarify that if LCA wins it's claim for membership in the VHSL, it's against the VHSL not the individual schools. Granted the NCAA and the VHSL are two different animals. But the similarities are striking.

Blacklisting is a very tricky topic. It opens up another whole kettle of fish that will take us down a rabbit hole with what if scenarios. Let's just say that any group of schools that refused to play LU based on a membership rule challenge would be likely liable for damages. As the schools will not be a part of the suit this is a mute point. Most anytime any group uses blacklisting as a tactic problems usually occur (realtors and fair housing, discrimination etc..)

Let's all just hope that C-USA, the SBC, or MAC come through with an invite. It's the best for all concerned.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2015 06:58 PM by NewTimes.)
03-11-2015 06:57 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-11-2015 06:57 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 06:21 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 05:38 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  It wouldn't take much of a lawsuit to get us up to the next level. Frankly we have an incredible case based on our capability and desire to be FBS being denied by exclusivity of an organization that has an Antitrust exemption. But is winnign such a lawsuit what we really want? Being an Indy that had ot sue its way into the club wouldn't bode well for us.

I agree with you. I believe it would be suicide for our athletic programs if we sued the NCAA to go independent in FBS straight from FCS. Then after we win a lawsuit against them, we have to get five schools to come to play us at Lynchburg a year. Who would want to come to our house to play us after we just sued them? And that's just football. I bet the FBS schools in the NCAA would be bitter enough to blacklist us for their other sports too. So if we go FBS independent, get excited to have some combination of UMass, Idaho, New Mexico State, an FCS school, and one other school to throw us a bone. The following year I don't know what we'd do because those schools (minus the FCS one) would probably want a return trip to their place.
No one here seems to be saying going indy is the first choice and that suing for membership is a good idea. Some seems to be saying it's the last choice if it's the last option.

If I understand you correctly, if no invite comes for LU, you would be content with LU staying FCS in perpetuity. 5, 10, 20 years or longer and you would be okay with FCS? I don't believe the school will stand for that.

A point to clarify, the NCAA would be the organization challenged, not any individual school. No school would suffer any economic consequence or embarrassment as they are not involved. It would be more like a challenge to a rule or agreement by a ruling body. No schools would be harmed economically or be singled out.

In a similar manner, 8 years ago when LCA applied for membership in the VHSL the request was denied. Two years later LCA again applied and was denied. LCA filed suite against the VHSL in June 2014.

Here's the N&A June article:
http://www.newsadvance.com/news/liberty-...f6878.html

This is pointed out to clarify that if LCA wins it's claim for membership in the VHSL, it's against the VHSL not the individual schools. Granted the NCAA and the VHSL are two different animals. But the similarities are striking.

Blacklisting is a very tricky topic. It opens up another whole kettle of fish that will take us down a rabbit hole with what if scenarios. Let's just say that any group of schools that refused to play LU based on a membership rule challenge would be likely liable for damages. As the schools will not be a part of the suit this is a mute point. Most anytime any group uses blacklisting as a tactic problems usually occur (realtors and fair housing, discrimination etc..)

Let's all just hope that C-USA, the SBC, or MAC come through with an invite. It's the best for all concerned.

I agree that suing for FBS is the last resort. I was specifically agreeing and responding to SlyFox's last two sentences. I wouldn't want to be in FCS forever but if the Sun Belt goes to 12, C-USA goes to 14, and there are no other moves then I would be okay with a lawsuit.

As for the NCAA, they may be a singular organization but they are made up of all the schools. The schools make the rules that the NCAA passes. And if Liberty made it to FBS then they would get a chunk of the playoff money even if it was "only" a million dollars and FBS schools get paid more to be a body bag warm up game instead of an FCS school.

I think it would be hard to prove LU being blacklisted if it ever happened. Like you said, FBS is like a good boy club and those clubs don't like having new members forced into their club. They can't be forced to schedule a game in Lynchburg which is exactly what Liberty will need as an FBS school.
03-11-2015 07:25 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-11-2015 07:25 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 06:57 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 06:21 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 05:38 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  It wouldn't take much of a lawsuit to get us up to the next level. Frankly we have an incredible case based on our capability and desire to be FBS being denied by exclusivity of an organization that has an Antitrust exemption. But is winnign such a lawsuit what we really want? Being an Indy that had ot sue its way into the club wouldn't bode well for us.

I agree with you. I believe it would be suicide for our athletic programs if we sued the NCAA to go independent in FBS straight from FCS. Then after we win a lawsuit against them, we have to get five schools to come to play us at Lynchburg a year. Who would want to come to our house to play us after we just sued them? And that's just football. I bet the FBS schools in the NCAA would be bitter enough to blacklist us for their other sports too. So if we go FBS independent, get excited to have some combination of UMass, Idaho, New Mexico State, an FCS school, and one other school to throw us a bone. The following year I don't know what we'd do because those schools (minus the FCS one) would probably want a return trip to their place.
No one here seems to be saying going indy is the first choice and that suing for membership is a good idea. Some seems to be saying it's the last choice if it's the last option.

If I understand you correctly, if no invite comes for LU, you would be content with LU staying FCS in perpetuity. 5, 10, 20 years or longer and you would be okay with FCS? I don't believe the school will stand for that.

A point to clarify, the NCAA would be the organization challenged, not any individual school. No school would suffer any economic consequence or embarrassment as they are not involved. It would be more like a challenge to a rule or agreement by a ruling body. No schools would be harmed economically or be singled out.

In a similar manner, 8 years ago when LCA applied for membership in the VHSL the request was denied. Two years later LCA again applied and was denied. LCA filed suite against the VHSL in June 2014.

Here's the N&A June article:
http://www.newsadvance.com/news/liberty-...f6878.html

This is pointed out to clarify that if LCA wins it's claim for membership in the VHSL, it's against the VHSL not the individual schools. Granted the NCAA and the VHSL are two different animals. But the similarities are striking.

Blacklisting is a very tricky topic. It opens up another whole kettle of fish that will take us down a rabbit hole with what if scenarios. Let's just say that any group of schools that refused to play LU based on a membership rule challenge would be likely liable for damages. As the schools will not be a part of the suit this is a mute point. Most anytime any group uses blacklisting as a tactic problems usually occur (realtors and fair housing, discrimination etc..)

Let's all just hope that C-USA, the SBC, or MAC come through with an invite. It's the best for all concerned.

I agree that suing for FBS is the last resort. I was specifically agreeing and responding to SlyFox's last two sentences. I wouldn't want to be in FCS forever but if the Sun Belt goes to 12, C-USA goes to 14, and there are no other moves then I would be okay with a lawsuit.

As for the NCAA, they may be a singular organization but they are made up of all the schools. The schools make the rules that the NCAA passes. And if Liberty made it to FBS then they would get a chunk of the playoff money even if it was "only" a million dollars and FBS schools get paid more to be a body bag warm up game instead of an FCS school.

I think it would be hard to prove LU being blacklisted if it ever happened. Like you said, FBS is like a good boy club and those clubs don't like having new members forced into their club. They can't be forced to schedule a game in Lynchburg which is exactly what Liberty will need as an FBS school.
Well said. Let's hope the MBB gets rolling, the FB team continues to improve, just maybe the Lady Flames can win a game or two in the tourney, and the baseball team goes on a good run. The Cox connection only adds to the promotion and appeal of the school. Let's keep the mo rolling and get that FBS invite.
03-11-2015 09:31 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Flames and C-USA?
(03-11-2015 09:31 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  Well said. Let's hope the MBB gets rolling, the FB team continues to improve, just maybe the Lady Flames can win a game or two in the tourney, and the baseball team goes on a good run. The Cox connection only adds to the promotion and appeal of the school. Let's keep the mo rolling and get that FBS invite.

I agree! It's good to be a Liberty fan right now and I have a feeling it will get a little sweeter soon!
03-12-2015 05:42 AM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Flames and C-USA?
Guys, there is some NCAA rule about forming an FBS conference. I'm not totally up to speed on it, but I do know that a certain number of members have to already be FBS. I'm thinking that it only calls for two FBS teams and that you must have at least six schools total to make a conference. If my thoughts are correct, then you would need four FCS teams who were wanting to move up. Idaho and NMSU had this opportunity as the WAC was winding down the sponsorship of football. Just something for you guys to chew on. We played out all the possibilities 2 -3 years ago when our message board was over on the CAAZone.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 02:59 PM by BleedingPurple.)
03-12-2015 02:57 PM
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army56mike Offline
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Flames and C-USA?
I remember. There was supposed a WAC West and East. Would have been a nice road in for Liberty had it occured. Now NMSU is closer to being a full member of the SBC from many opinions than being an Independent, unlike Idaho.
03-12-2015 08:19 PM
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