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LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #1
LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
It's hard to get excited when LU beats an inferior opponent at home against directional PA. Chris Lang has been very soft on the Flames in the N&A as he could have hammered them with the continuing losses. Let's hope LU can get a much needed 1st road win against Princeton.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2014 07:31 AM by NewTimes.)
12-22-2014 07:29 AM
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knucklehead Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
I know I'm gonna sound like a nut here, but I actually think with the slower pace that this game should have LU has a chance to get the W.
12-22-2014 09:36 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
(12-22-2014 09:36 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  I know I'm gonna sound like a nut here, but I actually think with the slower pace that this game should have LU has a chance to get the W.
I also am leery to expect an LU win and I feel this may be one that they do get. Reports say that Princeton lost 6 from last year's team. Maybe we'll get one on the road.

I listened to a little of the women playing Minnesota. Jamie is an experienced play-by-play announcer and does a good job. He has a good flow in his delivery. With Minnesota 9-1, I knew it would be tough for the team to win. At least it was not a blow out like the So. Carolina game seemed. I just saw the score. Seems like LU got pounded by 40.
12-22-2014 10:40 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
South Carolina is the #1 team in the nation I think, if I remember correctly. I think there is a much wider gap in women's hoops than in men's.

I am saddened to see the continued losses pile up for the men's team. I hope the losing is a necessary evil in order to get a game changing coach in here. We need our Danny Rocco to revive a dead program and make it respectable.
12-22-2014 10:57 PM
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army56mike Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
.03-banghead.
12-22-2014 11:04 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
(12-22-2014 09:36 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  I know I'm gonna sound like a nut here, but I actually think with the slower pace that this game should have LU has a chance to get the W.
Knucklehead, both you and I were drinking the cool aid hoping, wanting, desiring a LU MBB win at Princeton. I listened to most of the game, but when we got down by 18 with a few minutes to go, I had heard enough.

What is our problem? Is it coaching, quality of players or both?
12-23-2014 09:38 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
(12-23-2014 09:38 AM)Newetimes Wrote:  
(12-22-2014 09:36 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  I know I'm gonna sound like a nut here, but I actually think with the slower pace that this game should have LU has a chance to get the W.
Knucklehead, both you and I were drinking the cool aid hoping, wanting, desiring a LU MBB win at Princeton. I listened to most of the game, but when we got down by 18 with a few minutes to go, I had heard enough.

What is our problem? Is it coaching, quality of players or both?

From the handful of games I watched and some I listened to, I think the players just aren't that great. The coaching scheme feels so 1960s (neither good nor bad, just preference). We are a defensive minded team that hopes for patience and execution on offense. We try to create the shot we want on offense, and use as much of the shot clock as possible to find a favorable match up or wrinkle to exploit. It is painful to watch as nobody really wants to do anything; it looks like a bunch of passes, some screens, but nobody has a killer instinct. It is too unselfish in my opinion. And when you hold the ball for so long, you get more turnovers. Now whether that is a product of the system, the players are not disciplined enough, or the competition is just on a higher level, I'm not sure. But Princeton should be a winnable game, not a game we only score 47 and lose by 18.

Our players are not athletic enough. They all look slower than the other teams to me. I don't see a "weak link" necessarily but I don't see someone to hang our hat on as "the man." We don't have someone to take over a game that our opponents say something like, "We can't let John Doe get the ball because he'll take over the game and put his team on his back." Do we have anyone who could possibly be an all-conference award winner?

The most points we have scored in a game against a division I opponent is 66 (in regulation). According to ESPN we are 274th overall (of 351) in points per game at 63.5 which I'm assuming includes our awesome scores of 69, 79, and 94 against non-D1 schools.

Ladies and gentlemen, the results are in. We suck. It is a total team effort.
12-23-2014 10:20 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
(12-23-2014 10:20 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 09:38 AM)Newetimes Wrote:  
(12-22-2014 09:36 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  I know I'm gonna sound like a nut here, but I actually think with the slower pace that this game should have LU has a chance to get the W.
Knucklehead, both you and I were drinking the cool aid hoping, wanting, desiring a LU MBB win at Princeton. I listened to most of the game, but when we got down by 18 with a few minutes to go, I had heard enough.

What is our problem? Is it coaching, quality of players or both?

From the handful of games I watched and some I listened to, I think the players just aren't that great. The coaching scheme feels so 1960s (neither good nor bad, just preference). We are a defensive minded team that hopes for patience and execution on offense. We try to create the shot we want on offense, and use as much of the shot clock as possible to find a favorable match up or wrinkle to exploit. It is painful to watch as nobody really wants to do anything; it looks like a bunch of passes, some screens, but nobody has a killer instinct. It is too unselfish in my opinion. And when you hold the ball for so long, you get more turnovers. Now whether that is a product of the system, the players are not disciplined enough, or the competition is just on a higher level, I'm not sure. But Princeton should be a winnable game, not a game we only score 47 and lose by 18.

Our players are not athletic enough. They all look slower than the other teams to me. I don't see a "weak link" necessarily but I don't see someone to hang our hat on as "the man." We don't have someone to take over a game that our opponents say something like, "We can't let John Doe get the ball because he'll take over the game and put his team on his back." Do we have anyone who could possibly be an all-conference award winner?

The most points we have scored in a game against a division I opponent is 66 (in regulation). According to ESPN we are 274th overall (of 351) in points per game at 63.5 which I'm assuming includes our awesome scores of 69, 79, and 94 against non-D1 schools.

Ladies and gentlemen, the results are in. We suck. It is a total team effort.
GE, I feel your frustration and unfortunately agree with many of your points. Sly made a good observation about our program. His was that it likely places a big damper on any discussion with C-USA membership as that conference places a high emphasis on MBB. LU can at least now point to a moderate level of success in FB. What do we say about MBB? There is nothing to say other than we are a very poor team, likely the worst team in the D1 NCAA. If the MBB does play any part in the discussion with LU in any FBS membership, it is imperative that big changes need to be made NOW.
12-23-2014 11:25 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
I think Sly made that point and it was one I also made earlier too. CUSA and the Sun Belt both had more bowl eligible teams than bowl slots so unfortunately this was the worst season to have the best season ever for Liberty but I wouldn't trade it for any other year.

Does anyone know what our attendance is like for MBB this year? I know we are currently on break but do we have any support whatsoever? It would be nice to at least have a solid crowd and to be able to show conferences (and prospective coaches) that we have fans show up win or lose.
12-23-2014 12:12 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
(12-23-2014 12:12 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think Sly made that point and it was one I also made earlier too. CUSA and the Sun Belt both had more bowl eligible teams than bowl slots so unfortunately this was the worst season to have the best season ever for Liberty but I wouldn't trade it for any other year.

Does anyone know what our attendance is like for MBB this year? I know we are currently on break but do we have any support whatsoever? It would be nice to at least have a solid crowd and to be able to show conferences (and prospective coaches) that we have fans show up win or lose.
sly and I were talking about LU basketball. Not FB.
12-23-2014 01:00 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
(12-23-2014 01:00 PM)Newetimes Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 12:12 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think Sly made that point and it was one I also made earlier too. CUSA and the Sun Belt both had more bowl eligible teams than bowl slots so unfortunately this was the worst season to have the best season ever for Liberty but I wouldn't trade it for any other year.

Does anyone know what our attendance is like for MBB this year? I know we are currently on break but do we have any support whatsoever? It would be nice to at least have a solid crowd and to be able to show conferences (and prospective coaches) that we have fans show up win or lose.
sly and I were talking about LU basketball. Not FB.

Yes I should have been more clearer in my reply that I was too. CUSA and Sun Belt both had too many bowl eligible teams for football so they are probably looking to upgrade their basketball profile more and to get at large entries into the tournament. It is really unfortunate that our basketball program is having the worst season ever while the football program is having the best. We are a couple years short in football and you could argue about basketball too since we could have replaced Layer with someone more qualified.
12-23-2014 11:49 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
Well we beat another non-D1 school. Time to celebrate!

I was wondering how many of our players would be starters on other Big South teams. I think our team has too many role players.
12-28-2014 09:01 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
(12-28-2014 09:01 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Well we beat another non-D1 school. Time to celebrate!

I was wondering how many of our players would be starters on other Big South teams. I think our team has too many role players.
A 20 point win by LU here is meaningless. After the quality of play in the Princeton game, I am about as lackadaisical, uninterested and unenthusiastic about the team and coach as one can be. Can it be any worse than this?

Read Chris Lang's comment in the N&A about how others are writing (he may have read it hear) about the 351 RPI rating of the team. He made points about how they may not be quite that bad quoting another more credible RPI rating source where they would be about in the low 300s vs. 351. Does it really make any difference Chris?

The culture and expectation for the men's BB program is at an all time low. We've even dipped below the Mel Hankinson fiasco.
12-28-2014 10:09 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
(12-28-2014 10:09 PM)Newetimes Wrote:  
(12-28-2014 09:01 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Well we beat another non-D1 school. Time to celebrate!

I was wondering how many of our players would be starters on other Big South teams. I think our team has too many role players.
A 20 point win by LU here is meaningless. After the quality of play in the Princeton game, I am about as lackadaisical, uninterested and unenthusiastic about the team and coach as one can be. Can it be any worse than this?

Read Chris Lang's comment in the N&A about how others are writing (he may have read it hear) about the 351 RPI rating of the team. He made points about how they may not be quite that bad quoting another more credible RPI rating source where they would be about in the low 300s vs. 351. Does it really make any difference Chris?

The culture and expectation for the men's BB program is at an all time low. We've even dipped below the Mel Hankinson fiasco.

My celebration was sarcasm which I'm sorry for not translating well across the inter-webs. And to answer your question, yes it can always get worse. Luckily we beat all the NAIA and D2 schools and haven't had any off-court problems or athletic program scandals.

I saw what felt like an off the cuff remark from Chris in one of his write ups about the 351 RPI and wondered about that too. I doubt he reads this but if so I'd counter his argument by saying that if Liberty's pathetic RPI was based on their pathetic SOS being that it is so early in the season then these are exactly the teams they should be beating but they aren't. Because they can't win a D1 game with this sorry schedule then they should be 350th or whatever.

I read Chris Lang's articles when he puts a link on Twitter (I look at his Twitter to see if he gives any nuggets about realignment and Chris is either incredibly in the dark with his connections or he shares absolutely none of his information) and he is extremely soft on the basketball program. He rarely calls for any accountability, he never mentions the blazing hot seat under Layer, and he seems to have an attitude of "better luck next time" with regards to the team. I don't expect him to be a Liberty fan, but Chris does a lot of great articles but it would be better if he didn't look at the Liberty basketball team with rose colored glasses. I don't expect constant bashing but there seems to be more good than bad when talking about the outcomes of the games and without looking at the scores you'd think Liberty won by 10.

Does anyone know how much longer Layer's contract is for? I think he signed an extension after his tournament run in 2013 if I remember correctly.
12-28-2014 11:16 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: LU vs. UNCW & Princeton
(12-28-2014 11:16 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(12-28-2014 10:09 PM)Newetimes Wrote:  
(12-28-2014 09:01 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Well we beat another non-D1 school. Time to celebrate!

I was wondering how many of our players would be starters on other Big South teams. I think our team has too many role players.
A 20 point win by LU here is meaningless. After the quality of play in the Princeton game, I am about as lackadaisical, uninterested and unenthusiastic about the team and coach as one can be. Can it be any worse than this?

Read Chris Lang's comment in the N&A about how others are writing (he may have read it hear) about the 351 RPI rating of the team. He made points about how they may not be quite that bad quoting another more credible RPI rating source where they would be about in the low 300s vs. 351. Does it really make any difference Chris?

The culture and expectation for the men's BB program is at an all time low. We've even dipped below the Mel Hankinson fiasco.

My celebration was sarcasm which I'm sorry for not translating well across the inter-webs. And to answer your question, yes it can always get worse. Luckily we beat all the NAIA and D2 schools and haven't had any off-court problems or athletic program scandals.

I saw what felt like an off the cuff remark from Chris in one of his write ups about the 351 RPI and wondered about that too. I doubt he reads this but if so I'd counter his argument by saying that if Liberty's pathetic RPI was based on their pathetic SOS being that it is so early in the season then these are exactly the teams they should be beating but they aren't. Because they can't win a D1 game with this sorry schedule then they should be 350th or whatever.

I read Chris Lang's articles when he puts a link on Twitter (I look at his Twitter to see if he gives any nuggets about realignment and Chris is either incredibly in the dark with his connections or he shares absolutely none of his information) and he is extremely soft on the basketball program. He rarely calls for any accountability, he never mentions the blazing hot seat under Layer, and he seems to have an attitude of "better luck next time" with regards to the team. I don't expect him to be a Liberty fan, but Chris does a lot of great articles but it would be better if he didn't look at the Liberty basketball team with rose colored glasses. I don't expect constant bashing but there seems to be more good than bad when talking about the outcomes of the games and without looking at the scores you'd think Liberty won by 10.

Does anyone know how much longer Layer's contract is for? I think he signed an extension after his tournament run in 2013 if I remember correctly.
Well stated and I agree with most all your points. I also wonder why Chris is easy on the MBB program. I enjoy his work and believe he does top quality work. He most times seems valid in his comments and points. He's questioned Gill on decisions and tips but seems easy on a very poor D1 FCS basketball team seeking FBS. There has got to be a connection. I believe Lang is a knowledgeable and respected beat writer. His observations about FCS games during the year has caused me to follow teams, and their progression in winning and losing, and how that effects LU. That's a good sports writer.
12-29-2014 07:36 AM
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