EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Nobody cares about what is good for college football as a whole...and that will end up killing it.

Adams still has to pass a math test (that he has failed twice) in order to "graduate" before he can start a "Master's" program at Oregon.


Whole thing is a joke.

(08-11-2015 06:18 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Adams still has to pass a math test (that he has failed twice) in order to "graduate" before he can start a "Master's" program at Oregon.


Whole thing is a joke.

Because passing some arbitrary math test must be a prerequisite to graduating with an undergraduate degree that's unrelated to mathematics.


Big Sky Brewing should make a beer called "Bitter Big Sky Fans".

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

(08-12-2015 10:06 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

I don't think Oregon is in danger of becoming EWU's farm club.

Do you really not understand the difference between resource-strapped Team A taking castoff transfers from resource-rich Team B and rich Team B taking franchise players from poor Team A?

You really can't understand that difference? That's weird because nearly every other person can understand it even if they don't see an issue with it.

(08-12-2015 10:26 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:06 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

I don't think Oregon is in danger of becoming EWU's farm club.

Do you really not understand the difference between resource-strapped Team A taking castoff transfers from resource-rich Team B and rich Team B taking franchise players from poor Team A?

You really can't understand that difference? That's weird because nearly every other person can understand it even if they don't see an issue with it.

NFL teams don't compensate the college programs from whom they take players that haven't even finished an undergraduate degree (declared early).

(08-12-2015 10:35 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:26 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:06 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

I don't think Oregon is in danger of becoming EWU's farm club.

Do you really not understand the difference between resource-strapped Team A taking castoff transfers from resource-rich Team B and rich Team B taking franchise players from poor Team A?

You really can't understand that difference? That's weird because nearly every other person can understand it even if they don't see an issue with it.

NFL teams don't compensate the college programs from whom they take players that haven't even finished an undergraduate degree (declared early).

Neither do the martians. Now back to the relationship between college haves/have-nots discussion.

(08-12-2015 10:38 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:35 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:26 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:06 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

I don't think Oregon is in danger of becoming EWU's farm club.

Do you really not understand the difference between resource-strapped Team A taking castoff transfers from resource-rich Team B and rich Team B taking franchise players from poor Team A?

You really can't understand that difference? That's weird because nearly every other person can understand it even if they don't see an issue with it.

NFL teams don't compensate the college programs from whom they take players that haven't even finished an undergraduate degree (declared early).

Neither do the martians. Now back to the relationship between college haves/have-nots discussion.

It was a perfectly valid analogy that defeats the argument that P5 teams must compensate FCS (or G5, for that matter) programs when one of their players voluntarily chooses to graduate from that school and transfer to the P5 with a remaining year of eligibility left.

(08-12-2015 10:26 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:06 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

I don't think Oregon is in danger of becoming EWU's farm club.

Do you really not understand the difference between resource-strapped Team A taking castoff transfers from resource-rich Team B and rich Team B taking franchise players from poor Team A?

You really can't understand that difference? That's weird because nearly every other person can understand it even if they don't see an issue with it.

There is no difference based on the example you gave. If a player plays at Washington for three years, then transfers to EWU, did Washington not "develop and support the athlete which allowed him to be successful?" Would EWU have not "then dropped in and snag one year of services having invested no development cost." In this case, would Washington "receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system? In this case Washington is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club." Your words. Same still fits. How would it be any different in that situation?

The talent of the player is not applicable in a situation where you specifically discussed time and monetary investment. Further, even using your example of resources, that STILL is a case of the smaller school receiving the benefits of the resources of a bigger school. Not to mention my example happens literally a few of hundred times per four year cycle, where transferring up happens once in a blue moon. So quite literally FCS schools have benefitted FAR more from the time and money invested in FBS players on their dime, then the other way around. So no, there is no difference using your analogy. You want to find a difference: use a better analogy. Don't blame the man who pointed out the flaws in your logic.

(08-12-2015 10:54 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:26 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:06 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

I don't think Oregon is in danger of becoming EWU's farm club.

Do you really not understand the difference between resource-strapped Team A taking castoff transfers from resource-rich Team B and rich Team B taking franchise players from poor Team A?

You really can't understand that difference? That's weird because nearly every other person can understand it even if they don't see an issue with it.

There is no difference based on the example you gave. If a player plays at Washington for three years, then transfers to EWU, did Washington not "develop and support the athlete which allowed him to be successful?" Would EWU have not "then dropped in and snag one year of services having invested no development cost." In this case, would Washington "receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system? In this case Washington is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club." Your words. Same still fits. How would it be any different in that situation?

The talent of the player is not applicable in a situation where you specifically discussed time and monetary investment. Further, even using your example of resources, that STILL is a case of the smaller school receiving the benefits of the resources of a bigger school. So no, there is no difference using your analogy. You want to find a difference: use a better analogy. Don't blame the man who pointed out the flaws in your logic.

We're discussing the structure of college football and the problem of members of the same organization becoming farm teams for other members.

The NFL can take players from any member. They can take a player from Oregon....or one from EWU. That has nothing to do with unequal impacts on the internal structure of college football. Which is what we are actually discussing.

You could just as easily bring up that a meteorite could hit the Oregon QB and leave the EWU QB alone and it would be just about as relevant to the discussion at hand.

You bring it up to distract from your prior post not being able to understand the difference between Oregon taking a franchise player from EWU and EWU taking a 3rd string linebacker from Oregon.

The Graduate transfer loophole allowing graduate transfers to go without sitting a year will be closed pretty soon across the board. Make it where you can transfer, but if you do you have to sit out a year, like every other transfer.

(08-12-2015 11:04 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  We're discussing the structure of college football and the problem of members of the same organization becoming farm teams for other members.

You bring it up to distract from your prior post not being able to understand the difference between Oregon taking a franchise player from EWU and EWU taking a 3rd string linebacker from Oregon.

I understand this perfectly well: it is why I mentioned it. YOU don't. In terms of the structure of college football and the "problem of members of the same organization becoming farm teams for other members" let me give you a reality check. In the past five years there have been close to 700 players who transferred from an FBS school to an FCS school, JUCO, or another FBS school and did not have to sit out. They transferred and were immediately eligible. They were recruited, trained and developed on an FBS school's dime, then went on to play FCS football. There were less than ten that went from FCS to FBS without sitting out. Now who is the "farm team" for who?

Teams like North Dakota State and Villanova that have dominated in recent years, they had 10-20 FBS transfers a piece on their team. Amazing who FCS teams have no problem with having 25% of their roster being guys that transferred from FBS schools, then cry foul when one or two star guys get plucked to go the other way around?

(08-12-2015 09:30 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 06:18 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Adams still has to pass a math test (that he has failed twice) in order to "graduate" before he can start a "Master's" program at Oregon.


Whole thing is a joke.

Because passing some arbitrary math test must be a prerequisite to graduating with an undergraduate degree that's unrelated to mathematics.


Big Sky Brewing should make a beer called "Bitter Big Sky Fans".

Then why is he taking it? Why is it a requirement?

Adams being gone HELPS my team. Why would I be bitter on this specifically?

(08-12-2015 10:26 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:06 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

I don't think Oregon is in danger of becoming EWU's farm club.

Do you really not understand the difference between resource-strapped Team A taking castoff transfers from resource-rich Team B and rich Team B taking franchise players from poor Team A?

You really can't understand that difference? That's weird because nearly every other person can understand it even if they don't see an issue with it.

Correct - the FBS to FCS transfers are people either not good enough to start, or kicked out of a FBS program.

The Adams situation is one that should be of concern to all - basically opens the door to recruiting every teams players, all the time.

(08-12-2015 10:06 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

A prominent one, Bo Levi Mitchell, transferred to EWU from SMU and helped win EWU an FCS title in 2010. Came to EWU without sitting out at all. Incidentally he also led Calgary to a CFL Grey Cup title last year.

If I were EWU I would have wished Adams well and played this all out postively in the press. The story they would be able to tell recruits who are borderline FCS/FBS is we do a great job at developing talent that may be a bit small, light or slow into potential NFL draft picks and we do it better than FBS teams because we have only 63 players on our roster instead of 85. You have a better chance of getting early PT here instead of sitting on the bench at Big School U.

Adams got no interest from Oregon out of HS and look what EWU did for his career

I think we're going to start to see one of 2 things...
either-
they close the LOOPHOLE that is the graduate transfer and immediately be able to play
or
you are going to start to see a lot fewer redshirts used where the school that gets them gets them for the entire 4 years.

What will happen if the grad transfer rule is ended is players who have graduated but not exhausted their eligibility and want to complete a Masters Program who are good college players but know they aren't good enough to make an NFL team will leave after getting their undergrad degree for the CFL and get paid.

Can take graduate degree programs online and with the CFL having a no practice before 5pm rule, their players have time for another job or completing grad school while earning a paycheck. Why not audition for the NFL and get paid instead of playing for free.

(08-12-2015 12:09 PM)Policiious Wrote:  What will happen if the grad transfer rule is ended is players who have graduated but not exhausted their eligibility and want to complete a Masters Program who are good college players but know they aren't good enough to make an NFL team will leave after getting their undergrad degree for the CFL and get paid.

Can take graduate degree programs online and with the CFL having a no practice before 5pm rule, their players have time for another job or completing grad school while earning a paycheck. Why not audition for the NFL and get paid instead of playing for free.

Don't think so. It's something that has come around just in the last 5 years. Before most folks didn't leave if they have eligibility to go to the CFL, so not sure why it would change now.

(08-12-2015 11:27 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Correct - the FBS to FCS transfers are people either not good enough to start, or kicked out of a FBS program.

You mean guys such as joe Flacco?

(08-12-2015 11:27 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  The Adams situation is one that should be of concern to all - basically opens the door to recruiting every teams players, all the time.

I don't see how this is any different than the Russell Wilson, Everet Gholston, or Braxton Miller (before he decided to return) situations.

Truthfully the reason that happens so few and far between from FCS to FBS is the players in this situation are very unlikely to be redshirted at FCS. So the only way this usually comes up is either a player graduates in 3 years, or there is an injury that prolongs his career. That is why it happens so rarely this way, versus going from FBS to FBS or FCS, because players redshirt more often at the higher level. Currently that is a BIG advantage for FCS because FBS players who have redshirted and want to transfer, but have not graduated, have to go JUCO or FCS in order to play immediately and not lose a year of eligibility. So crying wolf now is just plain hypocritical. Especially since the ones complaining completely benefit from the rule.

(08-12-2015 11:04 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:54 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:26 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 10:06 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  EWU developed and supported the athlete which allowed him to be successful.

Then Oregon drops in and snags one year of services having invested no development cost.

EWU would receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system. In this case EWU is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club.

Is this any different than when EWU accepts transfers from FBS schools? They have several of them on their roster right now, players who also transferred to them without having to sit out. Most high level FCS schools do. So they need to stop with the whoa is me crap and shut the hell up.

I don't think Oregon is in danger of becoming EWU's farm club.

Do you really not understand the difference between resource-strapped Team A taking castoff transfers from resource-rich Team B and rich Team B taking franchise players from poor Team A?

You really can't understand that difference? That's weird because nearly every other person can understand it even if they don't see an issue with it.

There is no difference based on the example you gave. If a player plays at Washington for three years, then transfers to EWU, did Washington not "develop and support the athlete which allowed him to be successful?" Would EWU have not "then dropped in and snag one year of services having invested no development cost." In this case, would Washington "receive some recompense or consideration from Oregon in a fair system? In this case Washington is an unwilling farm club that gets no benefit for being a farm club." Your words. Same still fits. How would it be any different in that situation?

The talent of the player is not applicable in a situation where you specifically discussed time and monetary investment. Further, even using your example of resources, that STILL is a case of the smaller school receiving the benefits of the resources of a bigger school. So no, there is no difference using your analogy. You want to find a difference: use a better analogy. Don't blame the man who pointed out the flaws in your logic.

We're discussing the structure of college football and the problem of members of the same organization becoming farm teams for other members.

The NFL can take players from any member. They can take a player from Oregon....or one from EWU. That has nothing to do with unequal impacts on the internal structure of college football. Which is what we are actually discussing.

You could just as easily bring up that a meteorite could hit the Oregon QB and leave the EWU QB alone and it would be just about as relevant to the discussion at hand.

You bring it up to distract from your prior post not being able to understand the difference between Oregon taking a franchise player from EWU and EWU taking a 3rd string linebacker from Oregon.

There is no such thing as a FCS team being a farm team for the P5. It's not even close.

A farm team means that the parent team can "call up" and then "send down" players to the farm team, at any time, multiple times during a given season. On the other hand, a FCS player can only transfer to the P5 if he has graduated from the FCS school and still has eligibility remaining. That is a rare situation and a one time transfer.


If anything, we should be rewarding these players who have actually graduated.