(04-13-2015 09:38 PM)Dasville Wrote: (04-13-2015 09:06 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote: (04-13-2015 08:35 PM)opossum Wrote: (04-11-2015 02:08 PM)Dasville Wrote: Why did you 8 bring the other 8 in? Are the "other 8" delivering?
In retrospect, I'm very happy with all the additions (and subtractions, especially the most recent one). Can't think of any additions that get less than an A. FSU for football has definitely been the most successful addition, with their other sports a bonus, and Georgia Tech for both football and basketball is not too far behind. Give those two an A+, and the rest A's.
The others certainly fit the mold of the principles upon which the ACC was founded (football teams should be allowed to go to bowl games), and upon which it was later reworked (student-athletes should be students).
FSU was A+ between 1992 and 2000 as they were never ranked below 5th. From 2001 to 2011 they lost 50 games and fell out of the top 10 from 2004 to 2011. If you recall, there was a great deal of worry that Jimbo could not restore what FSU had been prior to the last half decade under Bowden.
Now, for the last 3 years, FSU has been back, but it's difficult to ignore 2004-2010, especially when combined with Miami's no-show and Clemson's less than stellar football under Tommy Bowden. That hurt the entire conference with contract negotiations.
That being said, I don't see additions as "contract workers" at worst they are "junior partners" until they have put in a couple of decades or so. FSU has been around long enough to have earned their full partnership papers even if they are difficult at times. However, a partner is still just a partner - one of the group.
LP4 I appreciate your candor and willingness to discuss. I also appreciate your historical perspective. Is FSU's expectations for the 1953 teams out of line? Based on the info. provided previously regarding major Bowl participation of the "core group", is FSU expecting to much from WF, UNC, NCST, Duke and Va? What should be the expectations ?
FSU knew exactly what to expect in joining the ACC. They got the best of both worlds in the ACC - an easier path to a national championship in football than in the SEC and better place for their basketball and Olympic sports.
The real issue in my opinion is that the ACC is run as a private Southern club. In the club there are certain accepted behaviors and a social pecking order that can be difficult to adjust to if you do not come from somewhere that is reeking with that sort of thing. This gives BC, Miami, and Louisville an advantage because the social pecking order in Boston is clubish, as well as in old Miami, and Louisville.
The "club" runs by consensus and by interlocking business and personal ties that are not always seen.
Because FSU is so new as a school compared to all the other league schools one way to describe them in a social context would be something akin to "new money". New money is often very money conscious and very sensitive to perceived slights as well as being frustrated by being treated as "new".
Another part of the problem is that FSU has very little long-term experience being a part of a conference and that was exacerbated by coming into the ACC at the peak of their football success. This naturally breeds a sense on entitlement.
The final issue is that FSU is little sister to Florida and can't compete financially with Alabama, Georgia, and Auburn because of their smaller stadium and because they simply don't earn as much themselves through football. No conference home was or is going to change that.
It's like having the nicest 5,000 sf home in a nice subdivision but always being fixated on the large mansions in the hoity toidy part of town that is fourth generation old money.
If you notice, many of the wants are irrational. Expecting any of the NC schools to excel at football is downright crazy as the state of NC is picked over in recruiting in state by 4 P-5's plus is surrounded by VT, UVA, GA, SC, Clemson and Tennessee. Toss in the occasional loss of a recruit to ND or a Florida school and it's wonder UNC, NC State, Duke and WF put anything on the field.
Accepting reality can be difficult. Accepting that you have successfully climbed K-2 and will never climb to the top of Everest is a real issue for some. It comes from only looking up at the handful ahead of you instead of also occasionally looking down at the vast numbers of folk behind you.
