(06-03-2015 04:39 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  You can win titles as an SEC or Big Ten school but your school is going to be eliminated from making the college football play offs more because of the losses you will take in the conference race.

There's more forgiveness if you lose though. Osu lost to va tech last year and got in the playoff. Could fsu have lost to a better acc team than va tech and still make the playoffs? Nope. And the big 10 schedule is not much harder than what fsu has now

Plus fsu could lose a game on the way to winning the sec title and get in too

Fsu already plays uf Miami Clemson and Louisville every year plus they try for another good ooc each season. Not like an sec schedule would be high school vs the nfl compared to what they have now

(06-03-2015 06:50 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 04:13 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I honestly didn't read all 10 pages of this. But honestly, at what point does these TV deals not affect football and start providing more $$$ to upgrade the non-rev sports.

IMO it's already starting. Witness the basketball coaching hires the SEC schools have made this offseason. That's only going to accelerate in the years to come.

Quote:There's so much that can be invested for facilities and whatnot. The only football advantage I can see between the SEC/B1G and the other three leagues money available for coaches and assistant coaches. Does a school like Alabama really need to invest $5M more towards recruiting? I doubt it. Sh*t, FSU really doesn't need much more money towards recruiting either. However, I certainly can see the the advantage when it comes to hiring coaches, or pulling a coach from a tier 2 P5 conference. That's definitely a real fear here. But at the same time, how many more weight room or practice field renovations do schools really need? Therefore, I tend to believe these deals or going to start a gap between the conferences, more or less in the non-rev sports.

I could very well be wrong.

Somewhat true on the facilities, but it's more than that. Football support staffs are getting larger.

http://www.tigernet.com/story/football/C...ting-13512

Quote:Turnipseed was hired away from Alabama and given the official title of Director of Recruiting. He quickly set about renovating the players’ lounge and locker rooms and then built a staff of 40 assistants to help run everything from monitoring prospects’ Twitter accounts to maximizing coaches’ recruiting visits and plane rides.

In other words, he completely revamped the way Clemson recruits and that’s something that former recruiting coordinator Jeff Scott told the media Wednesday that was a welcome change.

"Everything that used to be done in my office with maybe one student assistant has been replaced by Thad and his assistants that work back there all the time (on recruiting)," Scott said. "A lot of times I was doing wide receiver stuff and at lunch I'd go in for 90 minutes and do recruiting, then go to practice. At some point you're turning one off to turn the other one on and recruiting had gotten so big we needed someone to come in and do nothing but recruiting full time, and it's allowed us to really take that next step."

Swinney said it allowed the Tigers to take that next step.

“My vision was to build a village, to create a support system here,” Swinney said. “For the first four (recruiting) years we were very good. It’s not like we were bad, but how do we get to another level? That’s why I wanted to create a whole department.”

Turnipseed’s department doesn’t evaluate talent. Instead, they direct message recruits on social media and work with Clemson’s marketing, graphic and video departments to help reach recruits in various ways. Turnipseed is also able to look over a prospect’s social media history and determine whether they would be a good fit with the Clemson program.

Add in strength and conditioning assistants, staff nutritionist, academic support staff, etc. and it starts to add up.

Yea, Pitt is pretty much doing the same thing as well. The football facilities are being renovated and such as well as those positions you are mentioning.

What you're seeing trickling into hoops is the start. You'll start seeing that money trickle into volleyball, baseball, wrestling, hockey, and LAX

(06-03-2015 04:25 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Nole,

Question for you:

How isn't FSU able to compete for National Titles in the current environment? FSU has consistently been in the Top 3/5 in recruiting since Jimbo has taken over and won the NC in 14 and was in the Four Team Playoff this past season. I can't say that will change these next 10 years or not. But I can't imagine things will change.

It is the next 3-5 years as we see revenue gap growing.....ESPN's constant promotion of SEC football is tough to recruit against in football as well. FSU has been OK....but no program stays on top forever and SEC is increasing their advantage...it isn't static.

(06-03-2015 05:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 04:25 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Nole,

Question for you:

How isn't FSU able to compete for National Titles in the current environment? FSU has consistently been in the Top 3/5 in recruiting since Jimbo has taken over and won the NC in 14 and was in the Four Team Playoff this past season. I can't say that will change these next 10 years or not. But I can't imagine things will change.

Don't interrupt a good group whine by asking a logical question.

Way to add to the conversation....short but pointless....much like UNC's leadership of the ACC the past couple decades....right into the ground.

But Swofford's kid has a job.....so thanks UNC!

(06-03-2015 09:00 PM)nole Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 04:25 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Nole,

Question for you:

How isn't FSU able to compete for National Titles in the current environment? FSU has consistently been in the Top 3/5 in recruiting since Jimbo has taken over and won the NC in 14 and was in the Four Team Playoff this past season. I can't say that will change these next 10 years or not. But I can't imagine things will change.

It is the next 3-5 years as we see revenue gap growing.....ESPN's constant promotion of SEC football is tough to recruit against in football as well. FSU has been OK....but no program stays on top forever and SEC is increasing their advantage...it isn't static.

But as I hinted above, I see this revenue gap effecting the minor sports more-so than football. FSU is FSU and essentially the type of program that attracts quality players, and not to mention FSU is pretty much located in a top 3 state for recruiting in the nation. FSU is very likely to be fine through all of this.

(06-03-2015 09:10 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 09:00 PM)nole Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 04:25 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Nole,

Question for you:

How isn't FSU able to compete for National Titles in the current environment? FSU has consistently been in the Top 3/5 in recruiting since Jimbo has taken over and won the NC in 14 and was in the Four Team Playoff this past season. I can't say that will change these next 10 years or not. But I can't imagine things will change.

It is the next 3-5 years as we see revenue gap growing.....ESPN's constant promotion of SEC football is tough to recruit against in football as well. FSU has been OK....but no program stays on top forever and SEC is increasing their advantage...it isn't static.

But as I hinted above, I see this revenue gap effecting the minor sports more-so than football. FSU is FSU and essentially the type of program that attracts quality players, and not to mention FSU is pretty much located in a top 3 state for recruiting in the nation. FSU is very likely to be fine through all of this.

The simple answer has two parts:

1. I don't know, but I don't want to find out.

and

2. An increasing revenue gap certainly isn't going to HELP our odds.

(06-03-2015 04:25 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Nole,

Question for you:

How isn't FSU able to compete for National Titles in the current environment? FSU has consistently been in the Top 3/5 in recruiting since Jimbo has taken over and won the NC in 14 and was in the Four Team Playoff this past season. I can't say that will change these next 10 years or not. But I can't imagine things will change.

It's not about the "current" environment. It's about the environment in 5-10 years and more.

(06-03-2015 12:13 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Playing the Ohio States and Michigans of the world means you're going to get knocked knocked out the play off picture much more often.

No.

(06-03-2015 09:01 PM)nole Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 05:13 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 04:25 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Nole,

Question for you:

How isn't FSU able to compete for National Titles in the current environment? FSU has consistently been in the Top 3/5 in recruiting since Jimbo has taken over and won the NC in 14 and was in the Four Team Playoff this past season. I can't say that will change these next 10 years or not. But I can't imagine things will change.

Don't interrupt a good group whine by asking a logical question.

Way to add to the conversation....short but pointless....much like UNC's leadership of the ACC the past couple decades....right into the ground.

But Swofford's kid has a job.....so thanks UNC!

XLance rarely adds anything useful.

(06-03-2015 09:10 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 09:00 PM)nole Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 04:25 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Nole,

Question for you:

How isn't FSU able to compete for National Titles in the current environment? FSU has consistently been in the Top 3/5 in recruiting since Jimbo has taken over and won the NC in 14 and was in the Four Team Playoff this past season. I can't say that will change these next 10 years or not. But I can't imagine things will change.

It is the next 3-5 years as we see revenue gap growing.....ESPN's constant promotion of SEC football is tough to recruit against in football as well. FSU has been OK....but no program stays on top forever and SEC is increasing their advantage...it isn't static.

But as I hinted above, I see this revenue gap effecting the minor sports more-so than football. FSU is FSU and essentially the type of program that attracts quality players, and not to mention FSU is pretty much located in a top 3 state for recruiting in the nation. FSU is very likely to be fine through all of this.

Clairton,
I agree that it will start first with impacting 'minor' sports.

So let's talk about that.....FSU LOVES baseball...loves it. As it starts to affect that, some hardcore (albeit smaller group) portion of the base will be ticked.

FSU has been lucky enough to be in the top 5, 10, 25 in the Dirs. cup the last decade, FSU does enjoy it. It means more to me than most, but it matters some.

FSU's fan base would likely start to get impacted watching SEC schools around it completely dominate in those sports. SEC does very well now....if it got more unbalanced......FSU fan base would start to notice...and not love it.


That all said, back to the meat and potatoes....FSU attracts quality players now. There is nothing that assures FSU's future. Look to Miami for what lack of $, boosters, and facilities can do to a once dominate program, in great recruiting location, but can no longer 'keep up'.

The issue with the ACC has always been this. The conference relies on 3-4 football schools (out of 14). Of those 3-4......2 are doing the work right now (FSU and Clemson).

Neither has elite money. The odds of either competing at needed levels go down...quickly...as the gap grows. Considering the odds for the extremely top heavy ACC are already bad......

As stated above, I don't want to find out. FSU has hundreds of millions invested in football. It has a HUGE problem that it needs to spend $200 Million (give or take $100 Million) on it's stadium now (it is a safety issue...not bells and whistles)....and it is greatly concerned about its finances. It should be. It can't afford to spend that and see the revenue gap explode.....FSU would be in an emergency state trying to pay off it's debt for a program that can no longer compete at elite levels. ACC folks REALLY have no idea of FSU's money situations (honestly, most FSU' folks don't).


IMHO, the ACC has to start rewarding, financially, schools that are producing. Keep same structure, but if a school goes to a bowl, they get 25% of the top before it is divided by conference.

The ACC HAS to start incentivizing because of the insane imbalance of deadweight in the conference. Folks scream....'it will kill the conference'.....I am certain it is going to die as it stands now...perhaps this would give the conference a chance.

(06-02-2015 02:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I'm starting to get sick of this whiny FSU attitude. Just leave and go play with the pig farmers in Iowa already.

You realize you have a lot of fans in the NE and they enjoy getting to see the Noles play within a 4-6 hour drive once or twice a year?

(06-03-2015 11:59 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 12:13 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Playing the Ohio States and Michigans of the world means you're going to get knocked knocked out the play off picture much more often.

No.

How is that even debatable? There are four play off spots. The committee rewards you for being a conference champion. In the Big Ten, FSU will have to jockey for position against OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin and most likely Nebraska for that spot. In the SEC, the situation is even worse. If FSU goes then most years the Big Ten, Big XII, PAC 12 and SEC will get one team each in the play off.

If the Play offs expand to 8 teams, then that almost certainly will include autobids for the P5 so it would still be easier to make the play off from the ACC.

Yes FSU will get that play off spot some years, but it's much easier for FSU to make the play offs from their current position in the ACC.

Zactly...sigh.

(06-04-2015 08:27 AM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 02:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I'm starting to get sick of this whiny FSU attitude. Just leave and go play with the pig farmers in Iowa already.

You realize you have a lot of fans in the NE and they enjoy getting to see the Noles play within a 4-6 hour drive once or twice a year?

(06-03-2015 11:59 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 12:13 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Playing the Ohio States and Michigans of the world means you're going to get knocked knocked out the play off picture much more often.

No.

How is that even debatable? There are four play off spots. The committee rewards you for being a conference champion. In the Big Ten, FSU will have to jockey for position against OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin and most likely Nebraska for that spot. In the SEC, the situation is even worse. If FSU goes then most years the Big Ten, Big XII, PAC 12 and SEC will get one team each in the play off.

If the Play offs expand to 8 teams, then that almost certainly will include autobids for the P5 so it would still be easier to make the play off from the ACC.

Yes FSU will get that play off spot some years, but it's much easier for FSU to make the play offs from their current position in the ACC.

FSU was an undefeated defending champion with a perfect record last year and they were ranked 4th and almost out of the playoff for much of the year (finished 3rd) .

The ACC sucks so much that there is no margin for error. FSU cant lose to Va Tech and get in a 4 team playoff like OSU did. Heck FSU cant lose to anybody in the ACC and still get in the playoff. A 1 loss SEC champion will always get in.

I said this above but you chose to ignore it. The ACC hurts FSU in football and FSU wins despite the ACC.

FSU didnt sign up to play Syracuse, Wake and BC every season and barely ever play Georgia Tech and North Carolina. And the money that was once competitive in the ACC is now going downhill fast because of all the leeches who suck at the main revenue sport.

I'm not ignoring it. You're drawing the wrong lesson from last year. FSU was undefeated but scraped by game after game hurting their ranking when the close losses kept mounting up. Yet you still made the play offs as an ACC member. In a tougher conference, last years FSU team does not sniff the play off because you would have taken more losses in conference and been eliminated.

Really? How about the ACC sucked so bad that FSU wasn't exposed as a weak undefeated team?

Everyone saw that FSU was barely beating average teams last year...feel lucky you made the playoffs.

FSU knew at the time it joined that it would play Wake and Duke every year. FSU was the ringleader in pushing for expansion with BC, Miami and Syracuse. Well, you got them and now you have to play them.

You can also take your entitled leech crap somewhere else. FSU joined as an equal member of the conference, if the Noles want to keep all the money they make then they can go independent until then they have no right to try to reduce the other conference members to some sort of permanent serf status.

(06-04-2015 09:51 AM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  FSU knew at the time it joined that it would play Wake and Duke every year. FSU was the ringleader in pushing for expansion with BC, Miami and Syracuse. Well, you got them and now you have to play them.

You can also take your entitled leech crap somewhere else. Wake was here from the start.

No that isnt how it went down at all. The ACC as a whole wanted expansion. FSU pushed for Miami. Miami wanted 2 NE partners in the ACC. They wanted BC and Cuse. VA then got Va Tech in over Cuse...

Then both Cuse and BC get in over time and Miami doesnt get to play either of them.

Props on trying to revise history though. Maybe you were too young to remember what happened.

True Wake was here from the start. Them sucking just groups them in with BC/Cuse on our list. Better pray the ACC doesnt ever break up though because Wake wouldnt be in a power conference in that scenario. The only reason you are still in one is because you were "here from the start"

The ACC as a whole did not want expansion. UNC and Duke actively opposed it. Wake went along with it because they thought it was best for the whole even if it hurt us by costing us UNC as annual opponent. FSU wanted Miami but they also wanted those northeastern TV markets. FSU and Clemson pushed for that expansion more than anyone.

No one knows who will end up where if the conference disbanded. Wake is more valuable to other conferences when they aren't duplicating the North Carolina market with another Tobacco Road school.

(06-04-2015 10:09 AM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  The ACC as a whole did not want expansion. UNC and Duke actively opposed it. Wake went along with it because they thought it was best for the whole even if it hurt us by costing us UNC as annual opponent. FSU wanted Miami but they also wanted those northeastern TV markets. FSU and Clemson pushed for that expansion more than anyone.

No one knows who will end up where if the conference disbanded. Wake is more valuable to other conferences when they aren't duplicating the North Carolina market with another Tobacco Road school.

Again this is revising history. It isnt like FSU said "hey let's expand to 12 and these are who we want!"

No there were many discussions on expansion and FSU just pushed for Miami. Miami was the one wanting those NE markets. FSU never said they desperately wanted to play BC and fricken Syracuse. This is revisionist history.

Please on Wake being more valuable. They are small private school with a stadium that is closer to high school than big time power 5.

If all the schools were placed on the free agent market, there is no way in hell that Wake would be in a power 4 conference.

That's an unprovable hypothetical assertion.

FSU wanted to go to 12 for the championship game. They would have taken just Miami but they wanted two more.

Well Ragu when FSU leaves for the B1G or B12, we'll just invite in FAU so you'll have to continue to debate with us fricken leech teams' fans. TIC

Have you realized this: If FSU leaves, the ACC will invite UCF. UCF is more centrally located and will start to take away recruits from FSU...but you can be happy counting the imaginary fanboy $$$ you will never see. It isn't out of the realm of reality: FSU falls back to mid pack in the B1G/B12 and UCF fills the Florida void for the ACC.