(06-08-2015 09:02 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I bet Marshall fans would trade ten lettermen for one more year of Cato.

Actually, this sums up how much people value (or overvalue) the QB position. If Cato were returning, everyone would have been "Oh, Marshall returns everything from a top 25 team that didn't lose in regulation last year. They'll be undefeated this year." Without Cato, it's a window to put the next team in front, even if that team doesn't have anything resembling quality on defense.

Leadership and mental focus were issues during spring this year for Marshall. Holliday said these weren't issues last year, and that's what this team needs to work on. Top to bottom, athletically Marshall might be a better football team this year, but we will see if leaders step up and we are as disciplined this year as last.

rice is no different than vandy or northwestern or wake forest or any school like them that has high academic standards.

it hurts them in recruiting and they usually SUCK in football.

football is played largely by kids who don't mind violence and then are coached to be as violent as possible within parameters. people that possess these traits aren't usually at the top of their school's graduating class.

there are always exceptions of the eagle scout 4.0 gpa kid that was gifted with athleticism in the dna lottery. but they are exceptions.

when schools like rice and vandy and northwestern have a good year it's lauded with much ballyhoo because it IS the exception.

(06-08-2015 09:29 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Talk about putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about something being illegal.

This is not Marshall's fault. This is the conference's fault.

Signing non-qualifiers has a risk/reward ratio to it. Recruiting a lot of NQ's has an enormous risk/reward. And Marshall brings in a lot of NQ's. Due to recent changes in the rules (i.e. elimination partials), you can recruit as many as you want, get them on campus, let them pay their way for the first year and if they don't work out no APR issues to worry about, no oversigning to worry about.

The risk is now relatively low with huge upside. Really the only risk is are you wasting your very valuable and limited recruiting resources on a kid who: a) may never put the uniform on at all or b)may become an academic problem for you later down the line? But if you have a university that is essentially a diploma mill (like Troy) you can keep it going. I won't put Marshall in the same category as Troy, but I suspect the academic rigors at Marshall aren't that rigourous, especially if you are in the football program. I think most schools funnel kids who are academically challenged to certain classes/majors to help them ensure they stay academically eligible and on path to graduate.

So, this is a conference problem. The conference didn't do anything to address the NQ situation when it changed. IMO, the conference should set limits on the number of NQ's that can compete the following year after they first enrolled in the school.

If I'm Rice, I understand their concern about being associated in a league where at least half the members don't even come within a fraction of sharing the same academic objectives. The league has washed its hands on academic issues and purely goes off very low NCAA standards.

We dont take THAT many every year. Seems to be that it is less than 5 per year. Could be wrong though.

Just hate when people act like majority of our team is NQs.

UAB :-(

I know we have a decent amount returning, but I'm not sure yet if that is a good thing.

(06-08-2015 09:54 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 09:02 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I bet Marshall fans would trade ten lettermen for one more year of Cato.

Actually, this sums up how much people value (or overvalue) the QB position.

To be clear, I meant lettermen #48-57 if you ranked the 57 lettermen on the basis of expected contribution. The guys who probably got most of their PT in mop up duty.

I would make that trade, though, if I were an MU fan. Cato would get those guys a second letter.

(06-08-2015 09:43 AM)ThunderingHerdFan Wrote:  I do want to point out, there are more D-I caliber athletes in Houston than there are anywhere around here.

True, very true, and the only schools we have to compete against in that pool are Houston, Texas, Texas A$M, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma, LSU, UTEP, UTSA, UNT, Texas State, Sam Houston State, SMU, Tulane, Arkansas, Kansas, OSU, KSU, Northwestern, the Ivies, the Academies, and the occasional BYU recruiter.

Well, now and then, some others.

But it IS a damn good thing we are in Houston, instead of say, Wyoming or Alaska.

Kudos to Rice for its academics. That's admirable. But most kids go to Prep or Juco because they don't have the grades to make it at D1. They go to those schools, take easy courses and get recruited to D1.

I read a great article last summer in SI about the Prep schools in Miss. How kids go there that can't hardly read, had been in trouble with the law, etc. and those schools try to straighten them out. It was very positive in that regard. Lets not pretend that those type schools are parking lots for the 'Bamas, Ole Miss and Auburns of the world until Johnny Superstar can get his grades and life in order.

At least at MU, these kids pay their own way in year one. Get on track academically and then must be approved and placed on scholarship AFTER they have demonstrated signs of academic progress. Haters gonna hate.

(06-08-2015 12:51 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Kudos to Rice for its academics. That's admirable. But most kids go to Prep or Juco because they don't have the grades to make it at D1. They go to those schools, take easy courses and get recruited to D1.

I read a great article last summer in SI about the Prep schools in Miss. How kids go there that can't hardly read, had been in trouble with the law, etc. and those schools try to straighten them out. It was very positive in that regard. Lets not pretend that those type schools are parking lots for the 'Bamas, Ole Miss and Auburns of the world until Johnny Superstar can get his grades and life in order.

At least at MU, these kids pay their own way in year one. Get on track academically and then must be approved and placed on scholarship AFTER they have demonstrated signs of academic progress. Haters gonna hate.

Haters may hate, but we are human and since we were little wee tikes we've been taught to think in terms of which one of these is not like the other.

Don't sit and pretend like it doesn't have an impact (whether you believe its a positive or not) on the outcome of the athletics side of this. Again, fully recognize that Marshall is not doing something they shouldn't be. And certainly other schools could do this if they so chose, but not everyone is in a position to do so and therefore some schools are playing with a different set of standards if not rules. So, let's not pretend.

This is just my opinion, but I believe there should be a cap on this type of activity. Even five a year is a lot IMO.

(06-08-2015 01:30 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 12:51 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Kudos to Rice for its academics. That's admirable. But most kids go to Prep or Juco because they don't have the grades to make it at D1. They go to those schools, take easy courses and get recruited to D1.

I read a great article last summer in SI about the Prep schools in Miss. How kids go there that can't hardly read, had been in trouble with the law, etc. and those schools try to straighten them out. It was very positive in that regard. Lets not pretend that those type schools are parking lots for the 'Bamas, Ole Miss and Auburns of the world until Johnny Superstar can get his grades and life in order.

At least at MU, these kids pay their own way in year one. Get on track academically and then must be approved and placed on scholarship AFTER they have demonstrated signs of academic progress. Haters gonna hate.

Haters may hate, but we are human and since we were little wee tikes we've been taught to think in terms of which one of these is not like the other.

Don't sit and pretend like it doesn't have an impact (whether you believe its a positive or not) on the outcome of the athletics side of this. Again, fully recognize that Marshall is not doing something they shouldn't be. And certainly other schools could do this if they so chose, but not everyone is in a position to do so and therefore some schools are playing with a different set of standards if not rules. So, let's not pretend.

This is just my opinion, but I believe there should be a cap on this type of activity. Even five a year is a lot IMO.

We do cap it and we're hardly the only school that accepts. Why don't we just rule out taking NQ's, prep schoolers and Jucos. Be fine with me. They are all the same.

I don't think a single Marshall poster in this thread is pretending anything. Your post reads like double talk. Some of us(me for example) argue weekly on the Herd boards that to go to the AAC where NQs are not allowed would be stupid. It very def has an impact if you are talking Ws and Ls. But that's not to say we don't get fully qual studs like Cato, Shuler, D Johnson, Jasperse, Gator Hoskins etc etc. Doesn't matter what you think about how many should be allowed..as there is no cap. Like I said above lots of other schools take NQs among the Go5 and the P5. The SEC can take two a yr.

(06-08-2015 01:55 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 01:30 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 12:51 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Kudos to Rice for its academics. That's admirable. But most kids go to Prep or Juco because they don't have the grades to make it at D1. They go to those schools, take easy courses and get recruited to D1.

I read a great article last summer in SI about the Prep schools in Miss. How kids go there that can't hardly read, had been in trouble with the law, etc. and those schools try to straighten them out. It was very positive in that regard. Lets not pretend that those type schools are parking lots for the 'Bamas, Ole Miss and Auburns of the world until Johnny Superstar can get his grades and life in order.

At least at MU, these kids pay their own way in year one. Get on track academically and then must be approved and placed on scholarship AFTER they have demonstrated signs of academic progress. Haters gonna hate.

Haters may hate, but we are human and since we were little wee tikes we've been taught to think in terms of which one of these is not like the other.

Don't sit and pretend like it doesn't have an impact (whether you believe its a positive or not) on the outcome of the athletics side of this. Again, fully recognize that Marshall is not doing something they shouldn't be. And certainly other schools could do this if they so chose, but not everyone is in a position to do so and therefore some schools are playing with a different set of standards if not rules. So, let's not pretend.

This is just my opinion, but I believe there should be a cap on this type of activity. Even five a year is a lot IMO.

We do cap it and we're hardly the only school that accepts. Why don't we just rule out taking NQ's, prep schoolers and Jucos. Be fine with me. They are all the same.

False.

(06-08-2015 01:58 PM)bonegreen Wrote:  I don't think a single Marshall poster in this thread is pretending anything. Your post reads like double talk.

First things first. There is no double talk here. It's all pretty consistent.

(06-08-2015 01:58 PM)bonegreen Wrote:  Doesn't matter what you think about how many should be allowed..as there is no cap.

It does matter what I think... to me. Stuart Smalley told me so. Here's what doesn't matter...whether you like my opinion or not.

(06-08-2015 01:58 PM)bonegreen Wrote:  It very def has an impact if you are talking Ws and Ls.

Well, yeah. Isn't that what we're all talking about? Thank you for supporting the point I was making.

(06-08-2015 01:58 PM)bonegreen Wrote:  The SEC can take two a yr.

Because they have a policy. We should too.

Of course Marshall has an advantage over the rest of us. This is undeniable. And I get it. Football is a competitive sport. May as well take advantage of every advantage so to speak. Heck we lost Corey tindal to Marshall as an academic casualty.

Bottom line that i stand by is that in spite of having to replace a four year starter at QB Marshall is the best team in the league going into the season. And that's something because I understand how difficult it is to replace someone like Cato but the Herd will seemingly make it look easy this year.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Last year Marshall had 10 players named to the first team all conference list. Exactly zero of those were non qualifiers. This year that will probably change because you have guys like Deontay McManus and Angelo Jean-Louis, both highly ranked 4-star receivers that had good freshman seasons, who were props.

Marshall generally takes props at only a few positions, those where we have depth and can take a shot on exceptional talent (WR, RB) or positions that are just very hard for G5s to recruit quality (DT, big DEs).

Personally, I don't understand why every G5, with the exception of schools like Rice, Tulane, etc. don't take advantage of the NQ system. The inherit disadvantages we all have in trying to recruit and compete are onerous. I also actually like the fact that it gives young men the opportunity to come in, work hard, and take advantage of an opportunity. In many cases these kids come from a tough background where they were academically ignored due to their athletic abilities. They aren't dumb kids, just kids who weren't challenged and therefore are unprepared for life to a large extent. We bring them in, teach them how to study and apply themselves academically. If they respond, then they can get eligible and play football. If they don't then at least they got a different experience in their life and find out life can be different than what they may have thought it could be.

When I see young men like Vinny Curry, who not only realized his NFL dream, but also is just a quality individual, I have a hard time knocking the fact that we give these kids a chance for something other than the JUCO route. To me it is a superior route to prop. At JUCO you are still spending a lot of time on football. When you come in to Marshall as a NQ football is taken off the table and it's all about academics. It's a full year of learning what it takes to be a successful college student and we have a very good success rate. Our props actually have a higher graduation rate than our fully qualified recruits, although both groups do quite well.

(06-08-2015 08:24 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  in spite of having to replace a four year starter

Isn't that like trying to put a new driver in last year's championship car?

(06-08-2015 02:43 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 01:55 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 01:30 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 12:51 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Kudos to Rice for its academics. That's admirable. But most kids go to Prep or Juco because they don't have the grades to make it at D1. They go to those schools, take easy courses and get recruited to D1.

I read a great article last summer in SI about the Prep schools in Miss. How kids go there that can't hardly read, had been in trouble with the law, etc. and those schools try to straighten them out. It was very positive in that regard. Lets not pretend that those type schools are parking lots for the 'Bamas, Ole Miss and Auburns of the world until Johnny Superstar can get his grades and life in order.

At least at MU, these kids pay their own way in year one. Get on track academically and then must be approved and placed on scholarship AFTER they have demonstrated signs of academic progress. Haters gonna hate.

Haters may hate, but we are human and since we were little wee tikes we've been taught to think in terms of which one of these is not like the other.

Don't sit and pretend like it doesn't have an impact (whether you believe its a positive or not) on the outcome of the athletics side of this. Again, fully recognize that Marshall is not doing something they shouldn't be. And certainly other schools could do this if they so chose, but not everyone is in a position to do so and therefore some schools are playing with a different set of standards if not rules. So, let's not pretend.

This is just my opinion, but I believe there should be a cap on this type of activity. Even five a year is a lot IMO.

We do cap it and we're hardly the only school that accepts. Why don't we just rule out taking NQ's, prep schoolers and Jucos. Be fine with me. They are all the same.

False.

Why is my statement false? Explain.

(06-08-2015 09:01 PM)banker Wrote:  Last year Marshall had 10 players named to the first team all conference list. Exactly zero of those were non qualifiers. This year that will probably change because you have guys like Deontay McManus and Angelo Jean-Louis, both highly ranked 4-star receivers that had good freshman seasons, who were props.

Marshall generally takes props at only a few positions, those where we have depth and can take a shot on exceptional talent (WR, RB) or positions that are just very hard for G5s to recruit quality (DT, big DEs).

Personally, I don't understand why every G5, with the exception of schools like Rice, Tulane, etc. don't take advantage of the NQ system. The inherit disadvantages we all have in trying to recruit and compete are onerous. I also actually like the fact that it gives young men the opportunity to come in, work hard, and take advantage of an opportunity. In many cases these kids come from a tough background where they were academically ignored due to their athletic abilities. They aren't dumb kids, just kids who weren't challenged and therefore are unprepared for life to a large extent. We bring them in, teach them how to study and apply themselves academically. If they respond, then they can get eligible and play football. If they don't then at least they got a different experience in their life and find out life can be different than what they may have thought it could be.

When I see young men like Vinny Curry, who not only realized his NFL dream, but also is just a quality individual, I have a hard time knocking the fact that we give these kids a chance for something other than the JUCO route. To me it is a superior route to prop. At JUCO you are still spending a lot of time on football. When you come in to Marshall as a NQ football is taken off the table and it's all about academics. It's a full year of learning what it takes to be a successful college student and we have a very good success rate. Our props actually have a higher graduation rate than our fully qualified recruits, although both groups do quite well.

You are making way too much sense, stop it! **** it, if the league doesn't want us, kick us out. Hell, you'd think we had committed a crime. Holier than thou ****.

(06-09-2015 08:09 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 02:43 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 01:55 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 01:30 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 12:51 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Kudos to Rice for its academics. That's admirable. But most kids go to Prep or Juco because they don't have the grades to make it at D1. They go to those schools, take easy courses and get recruited to D1.

I read a great article last summer in SI about the Prep schools in Miss. How kids go there that can't hardly read, had been in trouble with the law, etc. and those schools try to straighten them out. It was very positive in that regard. Lets not pretend that those type schools are parking lots for the 'Bamas, Ole Miss and Auburns of the world until Johnny Superstar can get his grades and life in order.

At least at MU, these kids pay their own way in year one. Get on track academically and then must be approved and placed on scholarship AFTER they have demonstrated signs of academic progress. Haters gonna hate.

Haters may hate, but we are human and since we were little wee tikes we've been taught to think in terms of which one of these is not like the other.

Don't sit and pretend like it doesn't have an impact (whether you believe its a positive or not) on the outcome of the athletics side of this. Again, fully recognize that Marshall is not doing something they shouldn't be. And certainly other schools could do this if they so chose, but not everyone is in a position to do so and therefore some schools are playing with a different set of standards if not rules. So, let's not pretend.

This is just my opinion, but I believe there should be a cap on this type of activity. Even five a year is a lot IMO.

We do cap it and we're hardly the only school that accepts. Why don't we just rule out taking NQ's, prep schoolers and Jucos. Be fine with me. They are all the same.

False.

Why is my statement false? Explain.

What about the guys that go to JUCO because they didn't have better offers out of high school? What about the guys that go to prep school because they want an extra year of seasoning? For example, Rice has a linebacker who played high school ball in Kansas and then went to the Hotchkiss School in CT for a post-graduate year. Hotchkiss is widely considered to be one of the top 5 prep schools in the nation. He is now at Rice, and is a mechanical engineering major. Obviously, this is an exception to the rule, but I guess my point is that ALL NQ's didn't qualify. Only some JUCOs and Preps did not. Once again, I am not in favor of any regulation on NQs.