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NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #41
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
Hampton Roads and Austin could support NHL (or NBA teams), as they have larger metro regions than ten pro markets now. Didn't realize that George Shinn almost moved the first incarnation of the Charlotte Hornets to Tidewater. Both metros could use a new pro arena. Austin would for sure be in line for an NHL team, as there is a lot of corporate money and San Antonio's Spurs are too close for the NBA.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/01/virginia...ng-way-nba
06-26-2015 12:20 AM
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UConn-SMU Offline
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Post: #42
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-25-2015 11:10 AM)brista21 Wrote:  
(06-24-2015 08:47 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  The Whalers were a success in Hartford.

Hartford is exactly like Cleveland was after the Browns moved to Baltimore.

Long term I think Hartford is where the Islanders end up. Either as the Hartford/New England/Connecticut Whalers or perhaps the Connecticut/New England Sounders. (Sounders referring to Long Island Sound of course which may keep some of the Islanders fans interested in the relocated franchise.)

I think the NHL is nuts to even consider expansion, a better plan would be contraction by two squads to reconcentrate the talent levels a bit. Arizona can be one squad and let's go with Florida as the other.

Since contraction would never happen lets just relocate Arizona and Florida to places where they'd be supported. I say Quebec City gets one and whoever comes up with the best ownership group and plan of Seattle, Kansas City or the second Toronto area squad gets the other. If Halifax had a serious plan and group to bring in a team I'd move that second squad there in a heartbeat. The metro area only has about 400K people in it, but Nova Scotia as a whole has about 925K people living there and let's face it many in the Atlantic provinces (New Brunswick, PEI, Newfoundland) would follow a Halifax squad plenty closely.

Tampa Bay, Carolina, Nashville and Dallas all do fine with fan interest/attendance, especially the latter two. Carolina will continue to do better as long as the team is competitive given its division with the Devils, Caps, Pens, Flyers, stRangers, Islanders and Blue Jackets all of which have expats in the Triangle.

The Connecticut legislature needs to do something big in Hartford for UConn basketball and pro hockey. A state of the art stadium would attract the NHL's attention.

A bad stadium contract is why the Whalers left; it wasn't due to lack of fan support.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2015 05:04 AM by UConn-SMU.)
06-26-2015 05:02 AM
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Post: #43
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-26-2015 05:02 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(06-25-2015 11:10 AM)brista21 Wrote:  
(06-24-2015 08:47 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  The Whalers were a success in Hartford.

Hartford is exactly like Cleveland was after the Browns moved to Baltimore.

Long term I think Hartford is where the Islanders end up. Either as the Hartford/New England/Connecticut Whalers or perhaps the Connecticut/New England Sounders. (Sounders referring to Long Island Sound of course which may keep some of the Islanders fans interested in the relocated franchise.)

I think the NHL is nuts to even consider expansion, a better plan would be contraction by two squads to reconcentrate the talent levels a bit. Arizona can be one squad and let's go with Florida as the other.

Since contraction would never happen lets just relocate Arizona and Florida to places where they'd be supported. I say Quebec City gets one and whoever comes up with the best ownership group and plan of Seattle, Kansas City or the second Toronto area squad gets the other. If Halifax had a serious plan and group to bring in a team I'd move that second squad there in a heartbeat. The metro area only has about 400K people in it, but Nova Scotia as a whole has about 925K people living there and let's face it many in the Atlantic provinces (New Brunswick, PEI, Newfoundland) would follow a Halifax squad plenty closely.

Tampa Bay, Carolina, Nashville and Dallas all do fine with fan interest/attendance, especially the latter two. Carolina will continue to do better as long as the team is competitive given its division with the Devils, Caps, Pens, Flyers, stRangers, Islanders and Blue Jackets all of which have expats in the Triangle.

The Connecticut legislature needs to do something big in Hartford for UConn basketball and pro hockey. A state of the art stadium would attract the NHL's attention.

A bad stadium contract is why the Whalers left; it wasn't due to lack of fan support.


I am grateful NC got the Hurricanes as it gave me a reason to care about the NHL and hockey more so than the Olympics every 4 years. They also have delivered our only pro sports title.

But it was just a Arena dispute? Was Karmanos holding Hartford hostage like other cities with teams on playing hardball for sweet leases and revenue streams?
06-26-2015 09:31 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #44
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
A stadium deal is critical. I know some do, but it will be extremely difficult for any pro franchise to survive as a secondary tenant. Especially a new franchise.

Population is not as critical. Atlanta metro has a population >5 million. Many are northeast transplants. Where are the Thrashers now??

The NBA is their biggest competitor. Similar schedules. Similar arena needs. Any area with an established NBA team would seem to be low on the list.

To get to 32 they need 1 team in the pacific division and 1 in the central division. I don't see them going beyond 32. If you add 2 in the pacific someone has to change divisions. Easy enough to switch the Coyotes to central.
06-27-2015 07:32 AM
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UConn-SMU Offline
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Post: #45
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-26-2015 09:31 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(06-26-2015 05:02 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(06-25-2015 11:10 AM)brista21 Wrote:  
(06-24-2015 08:47 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  The Whalers were a success in Hartford.

Hartford is exactly like Cleveland was after the Browns moved to Baltimore.

Long term I think Hartford is where the Islanders end up. Either as the Hartford/New England/Connecticut Whalers or perhaps the Connecticut/New England Sounders. (Sounders referring to Long Island Sound of course which may keep some of the Islanders fans interested in the relocated franchise.)

I think the NHL is nuts to even consider expansion, a better plan would be contraction by two squads to reconcentrate the talent levels a bit. Arizona can be one squad and let's go with Florida as the other.

Since contraction would never happen lets just relocate Arizona and Florida to places where they'd be supported. I say Quebec City gets one and whoever comes up with the best ownership group and plan of Seattle, Kansas City or the second Toronto area squad gets the other. If Halifax had a serious plan and group to bring in a team I'd move that second squad there in a heartbeat. The metro area only has about 400K people in it, but Nova Scotia as a whole has about 925K people living there and let's face it many in the Atlantic provinces (New Brunswick, PEI, Newfoundland) would follow a Halifax squad plenty closely.

Tampa Bay, Carolina, Nashville and Dallas all do fine with fan interest/attendance, especially the latter two. Carolina will continue to do better as long as the team is competitive given its division with the Devils, Caps, Pens, Flyers, stRangers, Islanders and Blue Jackets all of which have expats in the Triangle.

The Connecticut legislature needs to do something big in Hartford for UConn basketball and pro hockey. A state of the art stadium would attract the NHL's attention.

A bad stadium contract is why the Whalers left; it wasn't due to lack of fan support.


I am grateful NC got the Hurricanes as it gave me a reason to care about the NHL and hockey more so than the Olympics every 4 years. They also have delivered our only pro sports title.

But it was just a Arena dispute? Was Karmanos holding Hartford hostage like other cities with teams on playing hardball for sweet leases and revenue streams?

Yes, it was only an arena dispute. The Whalers were popular. The state government hesitated and was incompetent. Very sad.
06-27-2015 10:19 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #46
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
My thoughts:

1.) The NHL is going to expand. This has been the worst kept secret in sports for about 2-3 years now. It is going to happen and it won't take too long. In fact, I predict that the NHL will announce its new expansion teams before the NFL announces which of its teams are moving to Los Angeles.

2.) When the NHL does expand, they are going to go with Las Vegas as team No. 31 and Seattle as team No. 32. It is basically a done deal. This is all mostly a kabuki dance, IMHO. The rest of the groups are all competing for relocated teams, IMHO.

3.) What is further complicating this issue is that the teams they adopt almost certainly must be West of the Mississippi. That basically all but eliminates (for now, at least) Quebec City and Toronto even though those two cities would be infinitely better hosts than any of the other cities on the list.

4.) The reason why it is going to be two Western teams is because there is no chance on this earth that either EST teams Detroit or Columbus would ever agree to go back to the Western Conference. They like having most of their games in the same time zone as their home city - it means vastly increased television ratings and stronger rivalries - and will definitely fight hard to preserve that status. In fact, if the NHL tried to move them unilaterally, I think it would end up in federal court - that's how strongly those franchises feel about that issue.

5.) The NHL's infamous "sunbelt expansion," which absolutely was executed horrendously - too many teams too quickly - is overstated in its disastrous outcome. The truth is those cities are held to a much higher standard than their Northern counterparts. I live in Pittsburgh and guess what? When the Penguins were horrible for a long time, the city lost interest in the Penguins. The same was true in Chicago. In the mid-2000s, I was in Chicago for business and went to the United Center for a Blackhawks game. The Hawks are an Original Six team with a great history but they were down at the time and had been down for quite sometime. Guess what I experienced? A completely dead, half-empty building with no atmosphere whatsoever. It was shocking and a vast departure from what it is like now at the Madhouse on Madison when the Blackhawks are the class of the league.

That doesn't mean that the fans here, or in Chicago, are fair weather - or any more fair weather than anywhere else. It also doesn't mean that people here, of Chicago, don't like/care about hockey. It means the local team has to give the locals a reason to get into it. If the local team loses for a prolonged stretch then of course people are going to find better uses for their money. That's just human nature/common sense.

For some reason teams in places like Pittsburgh and Chicago, when the local team stinks and people stay away, we get a pass. In places like Miami and Phoenix, when the local team stinks and people stay away, others use that as "proof" people in warmer climates simply don't like hockey and couldn't possib;ly understand it like people do who live in colder climates.

It is complete nonsense but for some reason that is the prevailing logic in many, many circles.

Look at the sunbelt cities where hockey has clearly worked: Anaheim, Tampa, Raleigh, Dallas. Tell me, what do all of those cities have in common besides being warmer than Minneapolis? They have all won the Stanley Cup, that's what. I have a feeling that if Columbus were to win a Cup that city would go gaga for NHL hockey just like every other city does when its team is fortunate enough to lift the most famous trophy in American sports.

6.) With some major exceptions, the NHL will not/should not expand to any city that already has an NBA team. It makes no sense to put a second winter sport team in a city that already has a winter sports team. There simply isn't enough money to go around.

7.) I hated seeing the Whalers leave Hartford. I had a hockey game as a kid and when you scored, it played the Brass Bonanza. Awesome memories. Also, that was one of the best sweaters (not jerseys, sweaters) in NHL history.

I always hoped the Devils would end up in Hartford. Three teams in metro NYC is one too many and the Devils basically have no fan base whatsoever. When they were winning cups, they would hold their "championship parade" around the parking lot of their arena. How pathetic is that?

I actually like their new arena a lot but Newark makes Detroit look like Mayberry. Holy hell is that place dangerous feeling! Also, in the two times I've been to the new arena, it was almost half-filled with opposing fans. That is not good.

BTW, two years ago, I was in downtown Hartford for a wedding there and it is no shangri la either. I don't mean that disrespectfully but if you are going to be the "Green Bay of the NHL" you need to make it quaint and fun, not dangerous and dilapidated.

For nostalgic reasons I'd love to see the return of the Whale but I'm not sure if the corporate support/wherewithal is there. I think the collapse of the insurance industry is what chased the Whalers south and I'm not sure anything has changed (for the better) on that front?

8.) The city of Glendale, Arizona recently voted to void its leasing agreement with the Coyotes. That is definitely a major development and is probably what is forcing the NHL's hand to some extent. They now likely need THREE Western teams. If anyone from Kansas City steps forward with a legitimate proposal, they could easily land a team.

9.) If the Milwaukee Bucks can't finalize their arena deal and the team moves to Seattle or someplace else, they too would make a GREAT expansion candidate. Personally, I think Las Vegas would be a much better NBA city than an NHL city and I also believe that Milwaukee would be a significantly better NHL city than NBA town.

10.) If the NHL expands to Toronto, which I do not foresee, it will be to the Northern suburb of Markham, ONT, not Hamilton. Bauer is to hockey what Nike is to football/basketball. The president of Bauer is spearheading Markham's efforts. That is not an incidental consideration. It would be like Phil Knight spearheading Los Angeles' NFL expansion efforts.

11.) My only concern with Seattle is the arena's location. This applies to the Markham effort as well. I strongly favor the downtown location much more than any suburban location. I believe that a major component of Arizona's struggles and Florida's struggles relate to their remote location of their arenas relative to their population centers. If you are already trying to cultivate a new fan base, it makes no sense to have half your fans have to travel twice as far as their work commute. If I were the NHL, any arena deal that is not downtown would be a non-starter.
06-28-2015 12:52 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #47
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-28-2015 12:52 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  My thoughts:

1.) The NHL is going to expand. This has been the worst kept secret in sports for about 2-3 years now. It is going to happen and it won't take too long. In fact, I predict that the NHL will announce its new expansion teams before the NFL announces which of its teams are moving to Los Angeles.

LOL.... that is house money. NFL hasn't given a damn about LA in over 20 years.

2.) When the NHL does expand, they are going to go with Las Vegas as team No. 31 and Seattle as team No. 32. It is basically a done deal. This is all mostly a kabuki dance, IMHO. The rest of the groups are all competing for relocated teams, IMHO.

3.) What is further complicating this issue is that the teams they adopt almost certainly must be West of the Mississippi. That basically all but eliminates (for now, at least) Quebec City and Toronto even though those two cities would be infinitely better hosts than any of the other cities on the list.
Agree, more western teams are needed to balance out the divisions/conferences

4.) The reason why it is going to be two Western teams is because there is no chance on this earth that either EST teams Detroit or Columbus would ever agree to go back to the Western Conference. They like having most of their games in the same time zone as their home city - it means vastly increased television ratings and stronger rivalries - and will definitely fight hard to preserve that status. In fact, if the NHL tried to move them unilaterally, I think it would end up in federal court - that's how strongly those franchises feel about that issue.

5.) The NHL's infamous "sunbelt expansion," which absolutely was executed horrendously - too many teams too quickly - is overstated in its disastrous outcome.
--Ehh, hard to say, if they don't go south at some point they really limit their tv draw and negotiating power for relevant channels, granted FOXS_ for local teams and NBCSN for national broadcast games isn't bad, but nothing in comparison to NBA coverage. I can't say the demographics and financials weren't there for any of those candidates.
The truth is those cities are held to a much higher standard than their Northern counterparts. I live in Pittsburgh and guess what? When the Penguins were horrible for a long time, the city lost interest in the Penguins. The same was true in Chicago. In the mid-2000s, I was in Chicago for business and went to the United Center for a Blackhawks game. The Hawks are an Original Six team with a great history but they were down at the time and had been down for quite sometime. Guess what I experienced? A completely dead, half-empty building with no atmosphere whatsoever. It was shocking and a vast departure from what it is like now at the Madhouse on Madison when the Blackhawks are the class of the league.

That doesn't mean that the fans here, or in Chicago, are fair weather - or any more fair weather than anywhere else. It also doesn't mean that people here, of Chicago, don't like/care about hockey. It means the local team has to give the locals a reason to get into it. If the local team loses for a prolonged stretch then of course people are going to find better uses for their money. That's just human nature/common sense.

For some reason teams in places like Pittsburgh and Chicago, when the local team stinks and people stay away, we get a pass. In places like Miami and Phoenix, when the local team stinks and people stay away, others use that as "proof" people in warmer climates simply don't like hockey and couldn't possib;ly understand it like people do who live in colder climates.

It is complete nonsense but for some reason that is the prevailing logic in many, many circles.

Look at the sunbelt cities where hockey has clearly worked: Anaheim, Tampa, Raleigh, Dallas. Tell me, what do all of those cities have in common besides being warmer than Minneapolis? They have all won the Stanley Cup, that's what. I have a feeling that if Columbus were to win a Cup that city would go gaga for NHL hockey just like every other city does when its team is fortunate enough to lift the most famous trophy in American sports.

Speaking for the Hurricanes only here. NC got a pro hockey team which fueled some fandom. We won a cup and had some great playoff runs up through 2008-09 to really stroke the fan base for hockey in general and the team. But 9 years after the cup and 6 years of no playoff appearances are starting wear on the fan base. Ohh people attend the games, people enjoy the team, but, with the success we had, and the recent drought are fueling the "when are getting back to where we were" attitudes and legitimately so considering the talent on the roster. Also, we got the Panthers improving and the Hornets making a come back of sorts. The new management/ownership/coaching with the Hurricanes really needs to get them into legit playoff contention soon to keep the buzz/caring going and getting stronger.

6.) With some major exceptions, the NHL will not/should not expand to any city that already has an NBA team. It makes no sense to put a second winter sport team in a city that already has a winter sports team. There simply isn't enough money to go around.
--To some degree I agree BUT I think its city/market dependant. Does the area have the disposable income to fully support both teams?


7.) I hated seeing the Whalers leave Hartford. I had a hockey game as a kid and when you scored, it played the Brass Bonanza. Awesome memories. Also, that was one of the best sweaters (not jerseys, sweaters) in NHL history.

I always hoped the Devils would end up in Hartford. Three teams in metro NYC is one too many and the Devils basically have no fan base whatsoever. When they were winning cups, they would hold their "championship parade" around the parking lot of their arena. How pathetic is that?

I actually like their new arena a lot but Newark makes Detroit look like Mayberry. Holy hell is that place dangerous feeling! Also, in the two times I've been to the new arena, it was almost half-filled with opposing fans. That is not good.

BTW, two years ago, I was in downtown Hartford for a wedding there and it is no shangri la either. I don't mean that disrespectfully but if you are going to be the "Green Bay of the NHL" you need to make it quaint and fun, not dangerous and dilapidated.

For nostalgic reasons I'd love to see the return of the Whale but I'm not sure if the corporate support/wherewithal is there. I think the collapse of the insurance industry is what chased the Whalers south and I'm not sure anything has changed (for the better) on that front?

8.) The city of Glendale, Arizona recently voted to void its leasing agreement with the Coyotes. That is definitely a major development and is probably what is forcing the NHL's hand to some extent. They now likely need THREE Western teams. If anyone from Kansas City steps forward with a legitimate proposal, they could easily land a team.

9.) If the Milwaukee Bucks can't finalize their arena deal and the team moves to Seattle or someplace else, they too would make a GREAT expansion candidate. Personally, I think Las Vegas would be a much better NBA city than an NHL city and I also believe that Milwaukee would be a significantly better NHL city than NBA town.

10.) If the NHL expands to Toronto, which I do not foresee, it will be to the Northern suburb of Markham, ONT, not Hamilton. Bauer is to hockey what Nike is to football/basketball. The president of Bauer is spearheading Markham's efforts. That is not an incidental consideration. It would be like Phil Knight spearheading Los Angeles' NFL expansion efforts.

11.) My only concern with Seattle is the arena's location. This applies to the Markham effort as well. I strongly favor the downtown location much more than any suburban location. I believe that a major component of Arizona's struggles and Florida's struggles relate to their remote location of their arenas relative to their population centers. If you are already trying to cultivate a new fan base, it makes no sense to have half your fans have to travel twice as far as their work commute. If I were the NHL, any arena deal that is not downtown would be a non-starter.


Just a few comments in red.

IMO, on some of the candidates mentioned via my own/that article and following some of the logic you posted:

Las Vegas:

I am not sure what the hang up would be with Las Vegas and I don't buy the gambling angle as the "action" on games from pro to college happens everywhere. People do it online, peopled do it in person, the only difference is you have an actual casino.

Seattle:

Seems like a sexy choice with how well the Seahawks are doing and their MLS team but they did lose their NBA team and haven't gotten a expansion or a relocation team. I would think they could support one though. Have they ever had a pro team? And I do not mean ECHL, AHL, ect....

KC:

Do they have a hockey market? I can't say they couldn't do it. Their only competition would be the Cheifs.

Milwaukee:

Honestly kind of surprised they don't have one yet but have they even attempted?

2nd Fiddle in Toronto:

I could buy it but considering the Maple Leafs ownership and their ties to the Canadian TV deal for the NHL so I got no idea how this would go down financially in that situation.

Quebec:

Can they financially do it? Wasn't it finances that pushed the Nordiques to look elsewhere.

Hamilton:

I could buy it.
06-28-2015 08:44 PM
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Monarchist13 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-28-2015 08:44 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  KC:

Do they have a hockey market? I can't say they couldn't do it. Their only competition would be the Cheifs.

What about the Royals?
06-28-2015 08:52 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #49
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-28-2015 08:44 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  IMO, on some of the candidates mentioned via my own/that article and following some of the logic you posted:

Las Vegas:

I am not sure what the hang up would be with Las Vegas and I don't buy the gambling angle as the "action" on games from pro to college happens everywhere. People do it online, peopled do it in person, the only difference is you have an actual casino.

I think it's just because of a combination of the transient population base and lack of a significant hockey presence in the area at the moment.

Seattle:

Seems like a sexy choice with how well the Seahawks are doing and their MLS team but they did lose their NBA team and haven't gotten a expansion or a relocation team. I would think they could support one though. Have they ever had a pro team? And I do not mean ECHL, AHL, ect....

I believe that the Seattle Metropolitans were the first US team to win the Stanley Cup, albeit a century ago. If I recall correctly they (along with Denver) were going to get an expansion team in the 70's, but the saturation of teams as a result of the WHA, the abysmal performance of the previous expansion teams (Kansas City Scouts and Washington Capitals), and the Scouts relocation to Colorado made them go back on it.

KC:

Do they have a hockey market? I can't say they couldn't do it. Their only competition would be the Cheifs.

I think they could definitely do it before the Royals got good, now I'm not as sure since it's not a traditional hockey market and there's only so much support they're capable of.

Milwaukee:

Honestly kind of surprised they don't have one yet but have they even attempted?

They've tried a few times at expansion but were obviously unsuccessful. With how good the Blackhawks are now I wonder how much they already own the city, although if the Bucks move they would be able to support one. I like the suggestion that the NBA and NHL 'trade' markets, even though Vegas has no team at the moment of course.

2nd Fiddle in Toronto:

I could buy it but considering the Maple Leafs ownership and their ties to the Canadian TV deal for the NHL so I got no idea how this would go down financially in that situation.

Quebec:

Can they financially do it? Wasn't it finances that pushed the Nordiques to look elsewhere.

It was just that their arena sucked and the Canadian dollar was weak (relative to the US) in the 90's. With their new arena they'll be just as (if not more) successful than Winnipeg has been.

Hamilton:

I could buy it.

Less likely than Quebec to be honest, they're sandwiched right between Toronto and Buffalo.
06-28-2015 09:01 PM
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madizoned-level2004 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-26-2015 12:20 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Hampton Roads and Austin could support NHL (or NBA teams), as they have larger metro regions than ten pro markets now. Didn't realize that George Shinn almost moved the first incarnation of the Charlotte Hornets to Tidewater. Both metros could use a new pro arena. Austin would for sure be in line for an NHL team, as there is a lot of corporate money and San Antonio's Spurs are too close for the NBA.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/01/virginia...ng-way-nba

George Shinn was also behind an effort to bring NHL hockey to Norfolk back in the 90s. At that time Norfolk was THE largest metro area without pro sports. Austin and LV are now larger. I think Norfolk made a play to land the Montreal Expos too, but could not compete with DC.
06-28-2015 09:21 PM
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Post: #51
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
Kansas City team would have wide regional appeal - lots of hockey fans in Omaha, Des Moines, etc.
06-28-2015 10:16 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-28-2015 08:52 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(06-28-2015 08:44 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  KC:

Do they have a hockey market? I can't say they couldn't do it. Their only competition would be the Cheifs.

What about the Royals?

True...but kind of out of season for most of the Hockey season though unless they become a solid playoff team.
06-28-2015 10:23 PM
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RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-28-2015 09:21 PM)madizoned-level2004 Wrote:  
(06-26-2015 12:20 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Hampton Roads and Austin could support NHL (or NBA teams), as they have larger metro regions than ten pro markets now. Didn't realize that George Shinn almost moved the first incarnation of the Charlotte Hornets to Tidewater. Both metros could use a new pro arena. Austin would for sure be in line for an NHL team, as there is a lot of corporate money and San Antonio's Spurs are too close for the NBA.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/01/virginia...ng-way-nba

George Shinn was also behind an effort to bring NHL hockey to Norfolk back in the 90s. At that time Norfolk was THE largest metro area without pro sports. Austin and LV are now larger. I think Norfolk made a play to land the Montreal Expos too, but could not compete with DC.


How would Norfolk really fare when surrounding by what the Orioles, Nationals, Capitals, Redskins, Ravens, Bullets/Wizards ..Seems to me like there is some saturation in the Maryland/Virginia area for pro sports. But then again I still can't fathom how NC doesn't have a MLB team.
06-28-2015 10:27 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #54
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
This Howard Bloom twitter is accurate from nearly a year ago, as far as I'm concerned:

https://mobile.twitter.com/sportsbiznews...6584677377

Four expansion NHL teams, Las Vegas and Seattle in the Pacific, a second Toronto team in the Central, and a Quebec City team in the Northeast.

The two Canadian media companies, Bell and Rogers, which own the Maple Leafs, will have a Solomonic parting of ways, with one emphasing the Eastern NHL and the other the Western NHL.
06-28-2015 10:35 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #55
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-28-2015 10:27 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(06-28-2015 09:21 PM)madizoned-level2004 Wrote:  
(06-26-2015 12:20 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Hampton Roads and Austin could support NHL (or NBA teams), as they have larger metro regions than ten pro markets now. Didn't realize that George Shinn almost moved the first incarnation of the Charlotte Hornets to Tidewater. Both metros could use a new pro arena. Austin would for sure be in line for an NHL team, as there is a lot of corporate money and San Antonio's Spurs are too close for the NBA.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/01/virginia...ng-way-nba

George Shinn was also behind an effort to bring NHL hockey to Norfolk back in the 90s. At that time Norfolk was THE largest metro area without pro sports. Austin and LV are now larger. I think Norfolk made a play to land the Montreal Expos too, but could not compete with DC.


How would Norfolk really fare when surrounding by what the Orioles, Nationals, Capitals, Redskins, Ravens, Bullets/Wizards ..Seems to me like there is some saturation in the Maryland/Virginia area for pro sports. But then again I still can't fathom how NC doesn't have a MLB team.

Salt Lake City, Austin, Oklahoma City, Norfolk, Memphis, Raleigh, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Sacramento, Las Vegas, and a few others are like peas in the pod: they can only support one NBA or NHL team. Too small for the NFL and certainly MLB. New Orleans can probably be put in that group, but the Saints fan base exists well outside New Orleans.
06-28-2015 10:42 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #56
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-28-2015 10:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Salt Lake City, Austin, Oklahoma City, Norfolk, Memphis, Raleigh, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Sacramento, Las Vegas, and a few others are like peas in the pod: they can only support one NBA or NHL team. Too small for the NFL and certainly MLB. New Orleans can probably be put in that group, but the Saints fan base exists well outside New Orleans.

Most of those could also support a MLS team imo, although there are a few better markets out there that should get a team first (St. Louis immediately comes to mind).

While this is looking far ahead, I think Austin could support MLB baseball relatively soon. They're projected to have over five million people in that metro area alone by 2050 (plus they'd draw from San Antonio), at some point they'll be large enough to seriously attract a team. It might be the only big four league that fits; the Spurs are too close for the NBA to go there, there's not enough hockey interest (that I know of) for NHL, and no NFL team wants to go up against the Longhorns. That leaves MLS, which would be a great fit for them at this moment.
06-28-2015 11:12 PM
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madizoned-level2004 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-28-2015 10:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(06-28-2015 10:27 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(06-28-2015 09:21 PM)madizoned-level2004 Wrote:  
(06-26-2015 12:20 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Hampton Roads and Austin could support NHL (or NBA teams), as they have larger metro regions than ten pro markets now. Didn't realize that George Shinn almost moved the first incarnation of the Charlotte Hornets to Tidewater. Both metros could use a new pro arena. Austin would for sure be in line for an NHL team, as there is a lot of corporate money and San Antonio's Spurs are too close for the NBA.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/01/virginia...ng-way-nba

George Shinn was also behind an effort to bring NHL hockey to Norfolk back in the 90s. At that time Norfolk was THE largest metro area without pro sports. Austin and LV are now larger. I think Norfolk made a play to land the Montreal Expos too, but could not compete with DC.


How would Norfolk really fare when surrounding by what the Orioles, Nationals, Capitals, Redskins, Ravens, Bullets/Wizards ..Seems to me like there is some saturation in the Maryland/Virginia area for pro sports. But then again I still can't fathom how NC doesn't have a MLB team.

Salt Lake City, Austin, Oklahoma City, Norfolk, Memphis, Raleigh, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Sacramento, Las Vegas, and a few others are like peas in the pod: they can only support one NBA or NHL team. Too small for the NFL and certainly MLB. New Orleans can probably be put in that group, but the Saints fan base exists well outside New Orleans.

Agree. For Norfolk in particular I think the NBA is the only thing that would work. I'd like to see NHL there but it just wouldn't catch on in the market as well as the NBA would.
06-28-2015 11:18 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #58
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
For better or worse, Las Vegas is getting an NHL team.

I have a good buddy from college who is a semi-big shot at a medium-sized sports book out there and he told me about this two years ago (he said Seattle too). That is a major reason why MGM is building that arena in the first place.

They wanted the NBA but the fiasco out there with regard to their All-Star game made that an impossibility...at least for now.

When he told me the NHL is going to Las Vegas I kind a left it off because he has told some pretty wild stories before. However, he was right on the money this time.
06-29-2015 10:55 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #59
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
I think the situation in Glendale, AZ is worth keeping an eye on for anyone that cares about this type of thing. That is a very strange move they made in what was already a very tenuous circumstance.

The Coyotes have never made a nickel in their 15 years in the desert and it does not look like that is about to change. Now you add on to that political acrimony and I think you're looking at a team that is basically a sure bet to leave the Phoenix metroplex.

If you don't have a market to speak of and you don't have any real political backing, what do you really have?

I think the Desert Dogs are as good as gone. They just have to navigate their way through some other issues. I also believe the Coyotes' situation is what is driving the expansion discussion.

You have to understand that the NHL is said to be charging a $500 million expansion fee. That is easily the largest expansion fee ever extorted by a major sports league for expansion franchise – and yes, I used that word intentionally.

That is on top of the costs these owners/cities are already incurring to build arenas and set up organizations. The $1.2 billion sale of the Los Angeles Clippers NBA team drastically changed the market for everyone.

Well, if you're looking at that type of an expansion fee, why wouldn't you approach the Coyotes about simply moving their team to your city? Their organizational infrastructure is already in place and their lease was just voided by their landlord. That is a significantly cheaper option and you could ice a team a lot quicker than you could am expansion franchise.

Also, as someone who follows junior and minor-league hockey as well, it is well known that the Coyotes have a loaded system and will become very good in very short order. They kind of got hosed by this recent draft lottery but are otherwise sitting pretty. Had they landed McDavid or Eichel, their potential would be scary. They are going to be a very compelling team to watch by 2017 or 2018.

And Arizona is not the only vulnerable franchise. The Florida Panthers for example are also just sitting there for the taking. They cannot draw flies up in Sunrise, FL and hockey is just not going to work there. I think Quebec City is biding his time and waiting for the Panthers to become vulnerable for a cheap sale. I think that is going to happen immediately after this expansion goes through and some markets are left on the sidelines – likely EST based markets.

That brings us to Kansas City - Who I see is the wildcard and all of us. KC has a better chance to land they team than any EST market. In fact, I think the NHL is begging for a CST market to step forward and as things currently stand KC is the only legitimate option. However, if the Bucks were to leave Milwaukee, that would change everything.

This is a very complex situation on a lot of levels and it will be fascinating to see how it plays out?
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2015 11:18 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
06-29-2015 11:12 AM
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RobUCF Offline
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Post: #60
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(06-25-2015 10:55 AM)Ragu Wrote:  Tampa and Carolina have great fanbases. There would be no reason for them to move either one.

Las Vegas and Seattle should get the expansion teams. Quebec and KC if they relocate teams...

Well, not only have the Lightning not experienced the attendance issues of the other southern markets, but in order to move a team you need an owner that is interested. The owner of the Lightning, Jeff Vinik, has already invested millions of his own dollars in upgrading the team's arena. He is also in process of developing a $1 billion complex of hotels, restaurants, condos, and office space centered on the arena. I don't get the impression that he plans to move the team anytime soon.

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news...ntown.html
06-29-2015 11:43 AM
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