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Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
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NewTimes Offline
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Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
Google "FBS Expansion" and one sees many news reports from print and electronic media saying it's EKU and Coastal being solicited by Commish Karl as new SBC members. We all know it's a re-stating of the same story but main stream media, not BBS fodder, is the source. A little more credible source than keyboard opinions.

If EKU and CCU receive formal SBC invites, which they would foolish not to accept (if they are able to accept), where does that leave JMU and LU.

The JMU dilemma is well documented. It unfortunate a school with so much to offer get's in it's own way in attempting to make the transition. JMU is it's own worst enemy. Strong fan support, strong facilities, multiple years of post season success.

LU, the most qualified school meeting the standards and resources, is receiving it's strongest action yet that the powers that be at the SBC do not want the school as a member. Or is Commish Karl exploring all candidates before making the call and all four all still in?

If EKU and CCU get invites:
What happens to JMU? What does the admin do? How do the fans feel seeing App St, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, ODU, and likely EKU and Coastal bypass them?

What happens at Liberty? What action does the admin take? Does the frustration of not being wanted, and little hope of an invite in the future cause the university to accept the reality or take action?

It may be premature now to dialogue about "what if" scenarios. But any movement by the SBC with EKU or CCU will create an avalanche of activity here, at the schools, by fans and conferences. One can almost feel the eruption soon to happen.

The Big Question: How did the story make the media? Was it leaked by the school or the SBC? That will tell us a lot about the credibility of the statement.
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2015 08:57 AM by NewTimes.)
07-29-2015 08:55 AM
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Libertygrad01 Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
Typically when it gets leaked to the media talks have progressed. With Liberty, Benson was an advocate for us and really wanted Liberty in the conference. He leaked that info I believe to help Liberty's cause. I think he did so without knowing how all the president's would vote.

This is what I've been curious about. It appears that Appy State was supportive of us joining until right around the time we beat them last year. I don't think they withdrew their support because we beat them, that would be pety and make no sense. I'm wondering if some conversations occurred during that game that App didn't like.

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07-29-2015 12:08 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
(07-29-2015 12:08 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Typically when it gets leaked to the media talks have progressed. With Liberty, Benson was an advocate for us and really wanted Liberty in the conference. He leaked that info I believe to help Liberty's cause. I think he did so without knowing how all the president's would vote.

This is what I've been curious about. It appears that Appy State was supportive of us joining until right around the time we beat them last year. I don't think they withdrew their support because we beat them, that would be pety and make no sense. I'm wondering if some conversations occurred during that game that App didn't like.

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I have also heard that App dropped their support but have not heard why. One wonders! Maybe someone else knows and can share.
07-29-2015 12:21 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
(07-29-2015 08:55 AM)NewTimes Wrote:  If EKU and CCU get invites:
What happens to JMU? What does the admin do? How do the fans feel seeing App St, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, ODU, and likely EKU and Coastal bypass them?

I don't think CCU and/or EKU going to the Sun Belt does a thing to JMU. By saying they don't want to be in the Sun Belt, JMU must know that they are giving the slot meant for them to someone else meaning they get leapfrogged by someone below them. I think it would sting more if it were Liberty going to the Sun Belt since they are the in-state school from down the road which is private and was founded not long ago.

Quote:What happens at Liberty? What action does the admin take? Does the frustration of not being wanted, and little hope of an invite in the future cause the university to accept the reality or take action?

I hope Liberty takes peaceful action to get to FBS, whether it is asking for a waiver to go independent or to "pay" a conference to invite them football-only for Liberty to withdraw to be FBS independent once they finish the transition.

What I hope doesn't happen is Liberty takes the passive approach and continues to work to make itself attractive to FBS conferences as an FCS school. There is very little else Liberty can do short of winning a national championship at FCS football. Many schools have moved up without winning and many more have won without moving up. If Liberty wants to be a member of the top of the top football schools, they must move up before all the slots in the best conferences get filled. If the Big Ten, SEC, or Pac 12 reach their quota whether it is 16, 20, or however many schools and Liberty is on the outside then it may be forever and I'd hate to see Liberty never able to compete at the highest level.
07-29-2015 09:02 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
(07-29-2015 09:02 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 08:55 AM)NewTimes Wrote:  If EKU and CCU get invites:
What happens to JMU? What does the admin do? How do the fans feel seeing App St, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, ODU, and likely EKU and Coastal bypass them?

I don't think CCU and/or EKU going to the Sun Belt does a thing to JMU. By saying they don't want to be in the Sun Belt, JMU must know that they are giving the slot meant for them to someone else meaning they get leapfrogged by someone below them. I think it would sting more if it were Liberty going to the Sun Belt since they are the in-state school from down the road which is private and was founded not long ago.

Quote:What happens at Liberty? What action does the admin take? Does the frustration of not being wanted, and little hope of an invite in the future cause the university to accept the reality or take action?

I hope Liberty takes peaceful action to get to FBS, whether it is asking for a waiver to go independent or to "pay" a conference to invite them football-only for Liberty to withdraw to be FBS independent once they finish the transition.

What I hope doesn't happen is Liberty takes the passive approach and continues to work to make itself attractive to FBS conferences as an FCS school. There is very little else Liberty can do short of winning a national championship at FCS football. Many schools have moved up without winning and many more have won without moving up. If Liberty wants to be a member of the top of the top football schools, they must move up before all the slots in the best conferences get filled. If the Big Ten, SEC, or Pac 12 reach their quota whether it is 16, 20, or however many schools and Liberty is on the outside then it may be forever and I'd hate to see Liberty never able to compete at the highest level.
Good points on the "peaceful" and "passive" approach. It sums up options left for LU to consider. If no invite seem imminent, what does the school do? Being passive, as LU has been politely waiting for the invite, will have to replaced with proactive action. I believe it will be LU's path and may be easier than we think if LU even broaches the indy path with the NCAA. The NCAA does not LU being the standard bearer challenging a discriminate rule and regulation.
07-30-2015 08:21 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
I'm going to be really upset with LU if they sit on their hands and say, "Oh shucks," and just take the "nice" approach to try not to create waves. That doesn't mean I endorse a "do whatever it takes no matter what" approach to going FBS and potentially burning a ton of bridges on our way but we have to do SOMETHING or else we'll just be like JMU who is stuck in FCS because they choose not to do the necessary evil and accept an invite to be with the peon Sun Belt in order to be more attractive to another FBS conference.
07-30-2015 05:17 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
(07-30-2015 05:17 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I'm going to be really upset with LU if they sit on their hands and say, "Oh shucks," and just take the "nice" approach to try not to create waves. That doesn't mean I endorse a "do whatever it takes no matter what" approach to going FBS and potentially burning a ton of bridges on our way but we have to do SOMETHING or else we'll just be like JMU who is stuck in FCS because they choose not to do the necessary evil and accept an invite to be with the peon Sun Belt in order to be more attractive to another FBS conference.
I also am frustrated at the FCS/FBS invite landscape. It's poor at best and unfair and discrimitory. If there ever was a way for the program to lose me as an avid fan it would be to be docile and passive when the next round of team changes happen and we're still stuck in the BSC. I don't believe they will lay down. I think the administration will be proactive. I hope so.
07-30-2015 05:50 PM
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Libertygrad01 Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
I bet they're already working on things behind the scenes. It would be great if Lang could interview Barber or Jr. and get their take on the current landscape.

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07-30-2015 07:34 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
It would seem logical that the admins are preparing for the non invite behind the scenes. LU is going to be FBS, by invite or otherwise.
07-30-2015 07:40 PM
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
IMHO: There is but one thing LU needs to do to get the call and that's to increase your standing regarding academics. I realize much is simply a perception, but take a moment to look around at the privates. Stanford in with a bunch of public's and a strong desire to want them there. Duke, Wake, and now ND in the ACC. Northwestern in the Big. Vanderbilt in the SEC. Rice in CUSA. Those are just the ones who naturally standout.

They each have a reputation of being a strong academic school and all are private universities. LU fans continue to ignore this as an issue. If you are a private university then academics is the ticket to get you to the next level. You have put all other excuses that outsiders come up with and make the transition to be more than an equal, you must be better.
07-31-2015 09:00 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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Re: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
BP, LU is much different. LU does need to upgrade it's academics. That takes years to accomplish. But the past of LU with the struggles and overt actions of unwise moves are even larger hurdles.

I doubt the school would receive an invite with higher academics today. It's more an issue of jealousy and envy than grades. It's more like LU has won the lottery and others are full of envy.
07-31-2015 10:49 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
(07-31-2015 09:00 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  IMHO: There is but one thing LU needs to do to get the call and that's to increase your standing regarding academics. I realize much is simply a perception, but take a moment to look around at the privates. Stanford in with a bunch of public's and a strong desire to want them there. Duke, Wake, and now ND in the ACC. Northwestern in the Big. Vanderbilt in the SEC. Rice in CUSA. Those are just the ones who naturally standout.

They each have a reputation of being a strong academic school and all are private universities. LU fans continue to ignore this as an issue. If you are a private university then academics is the ticket to get you to the next level. You have put all other excuses that outsiders come up with and make the transition to be more than an equal, you must be better.

Each of those privates has been in their current conference for decades now. TCU and Syracuse are the last privates to move to a P5 conference right? And those weren't for academics.

I'll be the first to admit that Liberty has a perception problem with their academics but Liberty may not be able to overcome it. Whether you agree with it or not, Liberty teaches Creationism which is a big red flag to liberal colleges. So despite Liberty also teaching Evolution, it doesn't matter because everyone already made up their mind once they heard about Liberty's "antiquated" view.

Then if Liberty somehow overcomes that perception, they have to deal with the "diploma mill" stigma. Liberty believes in bringing a quality education to the most amount of people for better or worse. These university presidents currently look down at Liberty's online program even though they are trying to copy it.

So for Liberty to change their perception, they will likely have to change their identity and they don't want to do that. In the meantime, they are expanding degrees offered, building new school buildings, getting the best technology, and doing all they can without changing who they are.
07-31-2015 06:03 PM
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
There are only 2 scenarios where I see it working out. First, if the Big South keeps LU for all other sports and the NCAA allows LU to become an FBS independent in football...that might be an option...although scheduling may become a nightmare but there may be no other way forward.

Also, if LU takes a step back...if JMU moves...and Coastal decides to pursue the Sunbelt...I still think LU has another chance to go after the CAA hard to take JMU's spot. Even if LU had to make a 10 year commitment...the CAA is normally one of the top tier FCS conferences, and our basketball schedule/recruiting could improve tremendously. In fact, home football games against W&M and Richmond may draw better than against Toledo or Ball state.

If Coastal is in talks with the Sunbelt...and JMU does move when UAB finally folds or some other domino falls...who else would be there be for the CAA to look at to replace JMU?
08-01-2015 04:38 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
For me it's FBS, and only FBS. Rather than languish in FCS for 10+ years, let's put our emphasis on some of the FBS football membership scenarios you described. If one wants to get a feel of how the CAA is working out for JMU, just read about any of the CAA membership threads there and it's easy to see the fan frustration.
08-01-2015 05:41 PM
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justjim Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
But it worked out for ODU, didin't it? I think the problem is Liberty may be trying to leapfrog a step. Coastal may be able to pull off the leapfrog because they have a better location and lack some of our negatives.
08-01-2015 07:30 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
(08-01-2015 07:30 PM)justjim Wrote:  But it worked out for ODU, didin't it? I think the problem is Liberty may be trying to leapfrog a step. Coastal may be able to pull off the leapfrog because they have a better location and lack some of our negatives.

As bad as our academics are perceived, Coastal is right there with us in the various rankings and they don't have the excuses we do. The CAA isn't much better than the Big South in football, if at all. Our other sports are fine in the Big South except for men's basketball. But it's not like the CAA is a multiple bid conference that will raise Liberty's profile. In fact, it may be harder for Liberty to win the conference. Besides, I am not sure what the CAA's stance is on FCOA but if I remember correctly (I feel 50/50 on it right now) they may not be participating as a conference which would be a big reason for Liberty not to join.
08-01-2015 09:18 PM
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
Jerry Jr. said at our FBS Ready news conference that we'd stay in the Big South until we became 1-A (Sorry, I think the FBS-FCS classifications are stupid). I think that's the best course of action.

It seems apparent that the most immediate way and best course of action is for us to become 1-A is the Independent route- either by NCAA rule changes (preferred) or by lawsuit (not ideal) while remaining in the Big South. CAA and 1-A Independence would be great too. I don't think scheduling to be as bad as most think, we made it happen as a 1-AA school and we'd make it happen as a 1-A school too.

I still think that a conference invite is a possibility for several reasons. Obviously, the Big 10 and 12 situations are still sensitive, I've also read that the UAB revival isn't exactly "Saving Sweet Briar," and that the aforementioned Akron Zips are having serious financial issues. COA maybe the thing that allows us to leapfrog many schools. On top of that, I'm not sold that Coastal will make the jump and they are several years away on the football side- Big South olympics will be fine without them (obviously better with them).

For me the pipe dream scenario, is to form a new 1-A football only conference with the 1-AA also-rans of JMU, Youngstown State, Jax State, MO State, EKU, UMass and anyone else I don't know about. I think that'd be a better scenario than the Sun Belt. One can dream though...
08-01-2015 09:20 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
(08-01-2015 07:30 PM)justjim Wrote:  But it worked out for ODU, didin't it? I think the problem is Liberty may be trying to leapfrog a step. Coastal may be able to pull off the leapfrog because they have a better location and lack some of our negatives.

The shortest distance to a destination is a straight line. LU's goal is FBS. Do what it takes to be FBS.
08-02-2015 04:12 AM
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RE: Sunbelt Expansion - EKU & Coastal in?, JMU & Liberty out?
(08-01-2015 09:20 PM)LUOrange Wrote:  For me the pipe dream scenario, is ...

...To get an invite to the AAC and it look like this...

EAST
UConn
USF
UCF
ECU
Temple
Cincinnati
Liberty

WEST
Tulsa
Memphis
Houston
SMU
Tulane
Navy
Army

There's a good mix of Private and Public.
08-09-2015 10:15 PM
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