I wasn't comparing Baylor to TCU. His statement seemed to be a general term, one that's not really that accurate in terms of long term consistancy.

(07-31-2015 03:52 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 01:02 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 11:35 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 09:59 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 08:53 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Like I said, the most fit amongst the G5 will likely be absorbed so as to insure the G5 doesn't have a large enough voting bloc to stop phase 2...a Div4. Notre Dame will be all in in a conference at this point.

What does anyone gain by having a new sub-division in football? No additional money, that's for sure.

The power conferences aren't going to cut the G5 out of the post-season money. That's a fact.

G5 have only increased their access to and money from the post-season, with every new iteration of the system. No reason it would regress to 1980's now.

Agreed. People need to stop with this 64/68 team mega NCAA tourney style super CF division. A separate division run by a P4 with complete autonomy is some farcical masturbatory that will never come to fruition. Let it go people.

(07-31-2015 10:10 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 10:06 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Why is that silly? UCONN, Cincy, and USF are "out" and were "in" for a decade before TCU was. TCU was at the right place at the right time, that doesn't guarantee them anything. Nor does their (or Baylor's) recent success. This idea that these "power" schools are some how privileged and beyond reproach is what is silly. That they have some entitled right to be included while other schools don't. The elitism is comical.

I would argue that TCU and Baylor's success on the field and "Oregon-like" national personas would get them in.

UConn, Concy and USF didn't have that when they were in the Big East.

I don't think what you have done in the past has any bearing on alignment. You are either a brand name with a large fanbase and consumer base or you are not. Baylor and TCU do not fall into that category. Hell even Boise is more so that than those schools are (the Gonzaga of CF). UConn is a brand but not on the Gridiron so it makes no difference in terms of any outcomes we see in the future.

OU, UT, and ND are the only shape shifters that can truly give CF a real makeover. Some other brands as well, but right now, only those three schools are long term threats to dissolve or strengthen a particular P5 conference.

TCU and Baylor are anomalies.....

Baylor is Vanderbilt with a phenomenal coach....

TCU has actually done more to build themselves into a National Power....they're actually consistently in the top 10 now

TCU has a bit of staying power IMO....Art Briles IS Baylor....once he retires, they'll return to being a bottom feeder

TCU has a storied history including 2-NC's and a heisman trophy before the recent success.

Those titles were in the 1930's and so was their Heisman. Networks and conferences want teams making it now.

It's hard to argue against TCU's current successes at the moment. I think them and Baylor both will end up just fine in all of this. As I keep saying, I think everyone in the BigXII save for MAYBE one or two will land on their feet just fine in all of this. They all have value on their own, but people are getting too hung up on the top dogs in the conference and not wanting to recognize that. Their individual value is also coupled with the extreme value to all parties of going from a P5 to a P4.

(07-31-2015 04:39 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 03:37 PM)BaylorFerg Wrote:  On top of that Baylor brings a consistent NCAA Tournament team in both men's and women's basketball that TCU isn't even close to touching.

Look man, this is not my fight, but did I just read this? Baylor's men's team made it to the second round of the NCAA tournament 3 times in the last five years. Before that... it was 60 years ago. They made only two tournaments PERIOD the last 60 seasons before that. Let's put this in perspective: from 1951-present Baylor has played 12 NCAA tournament games. The "other" Frank the Tank played in 15 during his career at Wisconsin. Before 2010 there was a 16 year gap between bowl games in football. Consistent is not a word you can use to describe either programs. Up and coming yes, and a great job of building it up. But it is all new and found money. not consistent. The Lady Bears: they are consistent. But not the other two.

Baylor has been to 2 Elite 8's, a Sweet 16 and 2 other appearances under Scott Drew. Baylor was one of 12 teams nationally to play in three Sweet 16's since 2010. Baylor has finished ranked in the Top 25 for the past 8 seasons, joining Kansas as the only Big 12 schools to do that. Looks pretty consistent to me.

EvilVodka ' Wrote:  Art Briles IS Baylor....once he retires, they'll return to being a bottom feeder

(07-31-2015 01:02 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 11:35 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 09:59 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 08:53 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Like I said, the most fit amongst the G5 will likely be absorbed so as to insure the G5 doesn't have a large enough voting bloc to stop phase 2...a Div4. Notre Dame will be all in in a conference at this point.

What does anyone gain by having a new sub-division in football? No additional money, that's for sure.

The power conferences aren't going to cut the G5 out of the post-season money. That's a fact.

G5 have only increased their access to and money from the post-season, with every new iteration of the system. No reason it would regress to 1980's now.

Agreed. People need to stop with this 64/68 team mega NCAA tourney style super CF division. A separate division run by a P4 with complete autonomy is some farcical masturbatory that will never come to fruition. Let it go people.

(07-31-2015 10:10 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 10:06 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 06:12 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  TCU and Baylor aren't getting left out, let's not be silly guys.

Why is that silly? UCONN, Cincy, and USF are "out" and were "in" for a decade before TCU was. TCU was at the right place at the right time, that doesn't guarantee them anything. Nor does their (or Baylor's) recent success. This idea that these "power" schools are some how privileged and beyond reproach is what is silly. That they have some entitled right to be included while other schools don't. The elitism is comical.

I would argue that TCU and Baylor's success on the field and "Oregon-like" national personas would get them in.

UConn, Concy and USF didn't have that when they were in the Big East.

I don't think what you have done in the past has any bearing on alignment. You are either a brand name with a large fanbase and consumer base or you are not. Baylor and TCU do not fall into that category. Hell even Boise is more so that than those schools are (the Gonzaga of CF). UConn is a brand but not on the Gridiron so it makes no difference in terms of any outcomes we see in the future.

OU, UT, and ND are the only shape shifters that can truly give CF a real makeover. Some other brands as well, but right now, only those three schools are long term threats to dissolve or strengthen a particular P5 conference.

TCU and Baylor are anomalies.....

Baylor is Vanderbilt with a phenomenal coach....

TCU has actually done more to build themselves into a National Power....they're actually consistently in the top 10 now

TCU has a bit of staying power IMO....Art Briles IS Baylor....once he retires, they'll return to being a bottom feeder

Why is Baylor=Briles, but TCU not equal to Gary Patterson? Why won't the Frogs return to being bottom feeders once Patterson leaves?

(08-01-2015 10:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  Why is Baylor=Briles, but TCU not equal to Gary Patterson? Why won't the Frogs return to being bottom feeders once Patterson leaves?

I take it because TCU did a coach transition successfully and Baylor has yet to do so?

But of course, Baylor might execute their next coach transition successfully while TCU might bungle theirs - that is a case of "past performance is no guarantee of future success."

(08-01-2015 10:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  Why is Baylor=Briles, but TCU not equal to Gary Patterson? Why won't the Frogs return to being bottom feeders once Patterson leaves?

The only time Memphis and TCU ever played each other was November 30, 2002, when they were still in C-USA. The Frogs won the game 27-20 with a late scoring drive which involved a controversial pass-interference penalty. They have come a long way since then. Memphis had a few good years afterward, then the bottom fell out after a single bad coaching hire and negligence of football during the Calipari basketball era. The coaching and priority mistakes have both been fixed.

(08-01-2015 12:20 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(08-01-2015 10:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  Why is Baylor=Briles, but TCU not equal to Gary Patterson? Why won't the Frogs return to being bottom feeders once Patterson leaves?

The only time Memphis and TCU ever played each other was November 30, 2002, when they were still in C-USA. The Frogs won the game 27-20 with a late scoring drive which involved a controversial pass-interference penalty. They have come a long way since then. Memphis had a few good years afterward, then the bottom fell out after a single bad coaching hire and negligence of football during the Calipari basketball era. The coaching and priority mistakes have both been fixed.

Not that I have a dog in the fight, but I can't help but find it ironic that Memphis' current football resurgence coincided with the hiring of Justin Fuente, a former TCU assistant coach under Gary Patterson.

Even if UT, OU & KU leave the B12 they still have the potential to stay in the P5 or at the very least be the best among the "new" G6.

1) Still have 2 of the top 5 ranked football programs (at least this year) and both in Texas.

2) Still have 3 programs in Texas including a large public (Tech who would have a hard time going elsewhere)

3) Some worthy adds available

BYU top in non P5 attendance, #26 sized Undergrad student enrollment nationally and #6 in the Western US and largest private U playing FBS. Football only

SDST: with the Chargers leaving SD soon, Baseball will be the only major pro sport franchise in the #17 market. SDST leads the state of CAL in college hoops attendance (avg 12400 per game and 200K a year) also top 10 in G5 football attendance which should grow with NFL gone. Play in 70K+ stadium. 32nd largest undergrad student body.

UCF: American heavyweight, won football conference title and AQ bowl victory. 5the largest undergrad student body in a growing market.

Fresno- top 10 G5 football attendance, also averages 7K for hoops and Fresno is a growing market, #62 sized student body, even with USC.

ECU- 2nd largest G5 football attendance, 2nd largest student body in NC, #52 nationally, in a growing state. Had great success in the American.

OR

NIU- won 3 of the last 4 MAC titles, 9 of the last 14 MAC West titles, brings access to the Nation's 3rd largest market.

The B12 would be the first conference with programs in the nation's 3 largest football talent states. The largest LDS University, Largest SBC University, Largest Disciples of Christ University, either a rising star football program in a fast growing state or the closest FBS public U to the nation's 3rd largest market and the largest undergrad student body in the Southeastern US

Not too shabby.

(07-31-2015 04:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-29-2015 04:33 PM)TheNealT Wrote:  

(07-29-2015 02:19 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-29-2015 02:16 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-29-2015 02:13 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  Great article. My only question in the article is Frank saying the "New Texas Leadership does not have the PAC preference that their predecessors did".


Dodds was the one that soured on going West and reports on this very board have indicated that the New Texas leadership prefers the West coast. For example, the tweet posted on this board by Brian Davis the UT beat writer for the Austin newspaper indicated such.

But I agree with him completely...Oklahoma does not want expansion, they want out and the feeling I am getting out of Oklahoma is seperating from OSU will not be a problem.

OSU supporters seem to be resenting the idea that they need OU to take then with them.... wherever they go.

If Frank's source is who I think it is and I am confident it is who I think it is, his info on what the new leadership at UT desires is accurate.

Texas will head to ACC only if they can get Notre Dame to join or they head to the B1G with Oklahoma, KU and whomever would be the 4th team.

I hope that Texas enjoys playing Wisconsin and Illinois in November, then.

Have fun in the Big Ten, Bevo!

Always a stupid argument.. can always flip it, to which playing at Illinois and Wisconsin in Sept is much better than playing at Texas Tech or Baylor in Sept..

Not at all if you are a Big 12 South team. Baylor and Texas Tech are more attractive.

Now if you are a long term Big 10 team, of course, the opposite is true.

The best thing about being a northern team is that you can simply refuse to go south in the early part of the season and thus bypass any advantage the southern team has from the heat.

By the time any game in the south would be forced (because of a bowl or playoff), the heat will be gone. Advantage gone, too.

(08-01-2015 02:58 PM)Policiious Wrote:  Even if UT, OU & KU leave the B12 they still have the potential to stay in the P5 or at the very least be the best among the "new" G6.

1) Still have 2 of the top 5 ranked football programs (at least this year) and both in Texas.

2) Still have 3 programs in Texas including a large public (Tech who would have a hard time going elsewhere)

3) Some worthy adds available

BYU top in non P5 attendance, #26 sized Undergrad student enrollment nationally and #6 in the Western US and largest private U playing FBS. Football only

SDST: with the Chargers leaving SD soon, Baseball will be the only major pro sport franchise in the #17 market. SDST leads the state of CAL in college hoops attendance (avg 12400 per game and 200K a year) also top 10 in G5 football attendance which should grow with NFL gone. Play in 70K+ stadium. 32nd largest undergrad student body.

UCF: American heavyweight, won football conference title and AQ bowl victory. 5the largest undergrad student body in a growing market.

Fresno- top 10 G5 football attendance, also averages 7K for hoops and Fresno is a growing market, #62 sized student body, even with USC.

ECU- 2nd largest G5 football attendance, 2nd largest student body in NC, #52 nationally, in a growing state. Had great success in the American.

OR

NIU- won 3 of the last 4 MAC titles, 9 of the last 14 MAC West titles, brings access to the Nation's 3rd largest market.

The B12 would be the first conference with programs in the nation's 3 largest football talent states. The largest LDS University, Largest SBC University, Largest Disciples of Christ University, either a rising star football program in a fast growing state or the closest FBS public U to the nation's 3rd largest market and the largest undergrad student body in the Southeastern US

Not too shabby.

You make a very compelling argument sir