http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/08/army-...le-update/

Curious when the question will arise if ARMY represents a Power 5 school to meet scheduling requirements? See this more important to Wake than Duke at the moment. However, 10 years ago, people would have said it was the reverse.

(08-11-2015 01:29 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/08/army-...le-update/

Curious when the question will arise if ARMY represents a Power 5 school to meet scheduling requirements? See this more important to Wake than Duke at the moment. However, 10 years ago, people would have said it was the reverse.

It will be more likely that Army would be considered an FCS school soon than a P5 school.

Army has four more years on its original deal with Duke, arranged when they thought the Blue Devils would continue to be the doormat of the FBS. Five of the six games against Wake will be played after the Duke series ends.

Frankly, I doubt the ACC and its football school members will much care whether Wake or Duke beef up their OOC schedules, no matter what their policy says. They still want to maximize their bowl eligible teams, and for these schools a weak OOC schedule makes that possible.

It won't come up for Wake Forest over the life of this contract (2016, 2021/2, 2024-6) ~ Wake Forest has Indiana 2015/6, Notre Dame 2017/18, 2020 & 2023, Vandy in 2022/3. Ole Miss 2024/5, Purdue 2026/7, and playing UNC OOC 2019/2020. So courtesy of that odd arrangement of playing fellow conference members OOC, they've got a P5 OOC game each year from 2015-2027.

Good news for all 3 programs.

Especially Army, since this indicates a willingness to start being serious about football again.

If nothing else it give Wake and Duke another chance to play against the triple option before they play GT,

Wouldn't be surprised if Army counts as a P5 since the SEC has agreed to it.

(08-11-2015 03:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Wouldn't be surprised if Army counts as a P5 since the SEC has agreed to it.

To be fair I don't see a problem with it. I think anyone you are willing to play home and home should count as a P5. But even for people who don't buy that, I do think that at the very least, any time you play on the road , it should be acceptable for that game to fill the requirement for that season.


That said playing @ Army or @ Navy, is just different than most others.

(08-11-2015 03:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Wouldn't be surprised if Army counts as a P5 since the SEC has agreed to it.

From FBSchedules.com:

Quote: “The ACC athletic directors have agreed that each ACC school will play a football non-conference opponent from the SEC, Big 10, PAC 12, Big 12 or Notre Dame or BYU annually,” Wellman wrote.

So, no, the service academies all count as Go5 in the ACC "must play P5" rule.

As far as why the SEC counted Army, its hard to say, but it seems like none of the SEC schools have games with Army, so it could just be empty lip service, as bizarre as it is to count Army as P5 and Navy and Air Force as Go5.

(08-11-2015 05:37 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 03:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Wouldn't be surprised if Army counts as a P5 since the SEC has agreed to it.

From FBSchedules.com:

Quote: “The ACC athletic directors have agreed that each ACC school will play a football non-conference opponent from the SEC, Big 10, PAC 12, Big 12 or Notre Dame or BYU annually,” Wellman wrote.

So, no, the service academies all count as Go5 in the ACC "must play P5" rule.

As far as why the SEC counted Army, its hard to say, but it seems like none of the SEC schools have games with Army, so it could just be empty lip service, as bizarre as it is to count Army as P5 and Navy and Air Force as Go5.

I think they should count Boise State, Fresno State, Colorado State, Northern Illinois, top MAC schools, some top Sun Belt schools like Georgia Southern, UCF, East Carolina, Memphis, James Madison and top CAA schools, Cincinnati and some others as a P5 school. Boise State does have ACC numbers beating their schools. That is the point with these conferences. They are too chicken to play schools like Boise State, North Dakota State and some very powerful football programs.

(08-11-2015 05:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State does have ACC numbers beating their schools. That is the point with these conferences. They are too chicken to play schools like Boise State, North Dakota State and some very powerful football programs.

Too chicken? That's a rather narrow minded take. Let's turn the perspective around.

Let's say I'm the AD at Georgia Tech. I need to schedule an OOC game. I have my usual cupcake Week 1 ... and the required game against UGAg. Given the scheduling arrangement with Notre Dame, that leaves 1 game available some years, 2 games once in a while. I already have exposure to the eastern seaboard through the conference, and I already play the required P5 in UGAg every year. So my interests are playing a team from an area nearby I have low exposure to but an interest in recruiting. That'd be TX, LA, MS, AL, TN and some parts of FL in no particular order.

And when we check the GT future OOC schedule outside the FCS/UGAg games ... what do we find?

2015: vs Tulane
2016: vs Vanderbilt, vs Georgia Southern
2017: vs Tennessee (CFA Kickoff), at UCF
2018: vs Tulane
2019: at Tulane
2020: vs UCF
2021: vs USF
2022: at USF, vs Ole Miss
2023: at Ole Miss


So again ..... if I'm the AD at Georgia Tech ...... why in THE HELL would I schedule Boise State or NDSU or anybody else from a far away area, with few to no major recruits, where if I win I gain nothing and if I lose I lose a lot? The only way people like Boise State are going to get big games is to be very good (ranked) and to have the fan support to make it viable to play in a kickoff classic game, where the TV exposure trumps recruiting interests.

(08-11-2015 06:18 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 05:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State does have ACC numbers beating their schools. That is the point with these conferences. They are too chicken to play schools like Boise State, North Dakota State and some very powerful football programs.

Too chicken? That's a rather narrow minded take. Let's turn the perspective around.

Let's say I'm the AD at Georgia Tech. I need to schedule an OOC game. I have my usual cupcake Week 1 ... and the required game against UGAg. Given the scheduling arrangement with Notre Dame, that leaves 1 game available some years, 2 games once in a while. I already have exposure to the eastern seaboard through the conference, and I already play the required P5 in UGAg every year. So my interests are playing a team from an area nearby I have low exposure to but an interest in recruiting. That'd be TX, LA, MS, AL, TN and some parts of FL in no particular order.

And when we check the GT future OOC schedule outside the FCS/UGAg games ... what do we find?

2015: vs Tulane
2016: vs Vanderbilt, vs Georgia Southern
2017: vs Tennessee (CFA Kickoff), at UCF
2018: vs Tulane
2019: at Tulane
2020: vs UCF
2021: vs USF
2022: at USF, vs Ole Miss
2023: at Ole Miss


So again ..... if I'm the AD at Georgia Tech ...... why in THE HELL would I schedule Boise State or NDSU or anybody else from a far away area, with few to no major recruits, where if I win I gain nothing and if I lose I lose a lot? The only way people like Boise State are going to get big games is to be very good (ranked) and to have the fan support to make it viable to play in a kickoff classic game, where the TV exposure trumps recruiting interests.

You are right...Boise has done pretty well with those kick off classic games though. VT and Georgia teams that Boise beat those years were very good and Georgia vs Boise in Atlanta...well that was blurring the lines on "neutral" games a bit haha...cheers!

(08-11-2015 03:20 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 03:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Wouldn't be surprised if Army counts as a P5 since the SEC has agreed to it.

To be fair I don't see a problem with it. I think anyone you are willing to play home and home should count as a P5. But even for people who don't buy that, I do think that at the very least, any time you play on the road , it should be acceptable for that game to fill the requirement for that season.


That said playing @ Army or @ Navy, is just different than most others.

Im fine with it. I see it as a patriotic nod of respect. These are not just football players---the academy players will move on and put their lives on the line for our nation. So, while it makes little "on the field SOS sense"---Im still alright with it. I just look at it as being part of what makes the college game different.

What I think would be kinda fun for college football is if all the FBS conferences got together, set aside the 3rd week of the OOC play and did a "random drawing" OOC game. The CFP commissioner would just pull balls out of a hopper and randomly pair teams for the next year. If they pull a match that was in the same conference or was already scheduled---they just draw again. You could have ESPN make a TV show out of the event. I think it would bring a lot of fun back to the OOC of college football.

(08-11-2015 06:18 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 05:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State does have ACC numbers beating their schools. That is the point with these conferences. They are too chicken to play schools like Boise State, North Dakota State and some very powerful football programs.

Too chicken? That's a rather narrow minded take. Let's turn the perspective around.

Let's say I'm the AD at Georgia Tech. I need to schedule an OOC game. I have my usual cupcake Week 1 ... and the required game against UGAg. Given the scheduling arrangement with Notre Dame, that leaves 1 game available some years, 2 games once in a while. I already have exposure to the eastern seaboard through the conference, and I already play the required P5 in UGAg every year. So my interests are playing a team from an area nearby I have low exposure to but an interest in recruiting. That'd be TX, LA, MS, AL, TN and some parts of FL in no particular order.

And when we check the GT future OOC schedule outside the FCS/UGAg games ... what do we find?

2015: vs Tulane
2016: vs Vanderbilt, vs Georgia Southern
2017: vs Tennessee (CFA Kickoff), at UCF
2018: vs Tulane
2019: at Tulane
2020: vs UCF
2021: vs USF
2022: at USF, vs Ole Miss
2023: at Ole Miss


So again ..... if I'm the AD at Georgia Tech ...... why in THE HELL would I schedule Boise State or NDSU or anybody else from a far away area, with few to no major recruits, where if I win I gain nothing and if I lose I lose a lot? The only way people like Boise State are going to get big games is to be very good (ranked) and to have the fan support to make it viable to play in a kickoff classic game, where the TV exposure trumps recruiting interests.

Cough: Tulane Cough: USF

Georgia was not chicken when they schedule Boise State, and boom, Georgia lost in their own backyard to them. Same with Virginia Tech. PAC 12 think schools like Boise State, North Dakota State, Montana, Eastern Washington and so forth do not think these teams are weak. It helps with their SOS playing them.

(08-11-2015 07:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Cough: Tulane Cough: USF

Georgia was not chicken when they schedule Boise State, and boom, Georgia lost in their own backyard to them. Same with Virginia Tech. PAC 12 think schools like Boise State, North Dakota State, Montana, Eastern Washington and so forth do not think these teams are weak. It helps with their SOS playing them.

Are you paying any attention?

Tulane is in New Orleans ... in the middle of prime recruiting turf, and a fellow former SEC member who left over academics. If we win, we gain prominence among recruits there. If we lose, we are shamed.

USF is in the middle of prime recruiting turf in Tampa, and GT had an extensive history under O'Leary of forming a pipeline out of Tampa and Jesuit HS in particular. If we win, we gain prominence among recruits there. If we lose, we are shamed.

There is no hordes of recruits in North Dakota or Idaho. Even if we win, we gain NOTHING.

(08-11-2015 07:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 07:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Cough: Tulane Cough: USF

Georgia was not chicken when they schedule Boise State, and boom, Georgia lost in their own backyard to them. Same with Virginia Tech. PAC 12 think schools like Boise State, North Dakota State, Montana, Eastern Washington and so forth do not think these teams are weak. It helps with their SOS playing them.

Are you paying any attention?

Tulane is in New Orleans ... in the middle of prime recruiting turf, and a fellow former SEC member who left over academics. If we win, we gain prominence among recruits there. If we lose, we are shamed.

USF is in the middle of prime recruiting turf in Tampa, and GT had an extensive history under O'Leary of forming a pipeline out of Tampa and Jesuit HS in particular. If we win, we gain prominence among recruits there. If we lose, we are shamed.

There is no hordes of recruits in North Dakota or Idaho. Even if we win, we gain NOTHING.

there..... look what you are guilty of .... the florida twin syndrome. shame on you

UCF is the one with O'leary at the helm. the same UCF that was the fiesta bowl champions 2 years ago and is the reining AAC champ two years in a row. if you lose to them, i dont think there is gonna be THAT much shame....... maybe disappointment...... but no tar and feathers like losing to tulane.

(08-11-2015 07:51 PM)otown Wrote:  there..... look what you are guilty of .... the florida twin syndrome. shame on you

UCF is the one with O'leary at the helm. the same UCF that was the fiesta bowl champions 2 years ago and is the reining AAC champ two years in a row. if you lose to them, i dont think there is gonna be THAT much shame....... maybe disappointment...... but no tar and feathers like losing to tulane.

I know very well where O'Leary is, and the litany of former Tech players he has had as assistants at UCF, including Brent Key to this day.

Re-read my post. When O'Leary was at Georgia Tech, he recruited Tampa heavily and well. George Godsey came out of Jesuit in Tampa. So did Kerry Watkins and several other GT players that played key roles in the late 90's and very early 00's.

This crushing defeat of undefeated Top 5 Clemson is a pass from Jesuit HS George Godsey to Jesuit HS Kerry Watkins... with O'Leary on the sideline. (And Brent Key as center IIRC).

(08-11-2015 01:39 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-11-2015 01:29 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/08/army-...le-update/

Curious when the question will arise if ARMY represents a Power 5 school to meet scheduling requirements? See this more important to Wake than Duke at the moment. However, 10 years ago, people would have said it was the reverse.

It will be more likely that Army would be considered an FCS school soon than a P5 school.

Army has four more years on its original deal with Duke, arranged when they thought the Blue Devils would continue to be the doormat of the FBS. Five of the six games against Wake will be played after the Duke series ends.

Frankly, I doubt the ACC and its football school members will much care whether Wake or Duke beef up their OOC schedules, no matter what their policy says. They still want to maximize their bowl eligible teams, and for these schools a weak OOC schedule makes that possible.

That is cute. Yes, Army has struggled recently, but we haven't gone 0-12 or 1-11 for the last 5 years. Save that talk for Idaho or Georgia State.

(08-11-2015 02:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for all 3 programs.

Especially Army, since this indicates a willingness to start being serious about football again.

Absolutely. I like these series, Wake and Duke are usually beatable or at least within our competitive range. It is better than traveling to freaking Yale or scheduling two FCS opponents. I swear, that our AD is a Navy troll.