(09-02-2015 11:13 AM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 10:41 AM)NittanyLion Wrote:  Out of curiosity, what conference rules did ULL violate that "forced them out"? I know ULL's basketball program got the death penalty once, but that was several years before 1982.

It's an interesting "what if" question in the realignment game --- what if Louisiana Tech made the requirements, and the Southland Conference then hits the 50% mark? Then the conference could stay at the D-1 level, and it essentially would have been a version of the "Sun Belt" before the Sun Belt actually DID begin sponsoring football nearly two decades later. Would Tulsa, Wichita State and New Mexico State, members of a conference that didn't hit the 50% mark, have migrated over to the Southland themselves?

The rule was and still is that if the conference sponsors a sport that a member plays, it must be played in the conference. The Ragin' Cajuns wanted to stay D-IA. With the rest of the conference reclassifying to D-IAA, that put them in violation. A similar thing occurred with UTSA and Texas State recently. I personally think the rule is harmful and has ended up harming the conference in the past. If I recall correctly, the rule was probably one of the reasons leading to the formation of the American South Conference. Arkansas State and Louisiana Tech wanted to move to D-IAA. The American South didn't sponsor football, so that was a good fit for both of them as well as ULL who went the independent route. They could pursue D-IA, but have a home for their Olympic sports.

Each probably would have ultimately moved on to find a home for all their sports, but the rule forced the programs to do that.

On the reclassification "what if", the conference was the founding home conference for the the Independence Bowl. Of course, that changed in 1982 with the reclassification.

This may be semantics but the NCAA never had a rule that a 1-a school couldn't be in a conference that sponsored 1-aa football.

What prevented that from occurring was the NCAA required a 1-a school to play 60% of their games against 1-a opponents. That prevented 1-a schools from playing football in a 1-aa conference. They would have been able to play all other sports in a 1-aa conference but would have to be independent for football. This is something that the Southland and most other 1-aa football conferences will not allow. The only exception I can think of is Idaho playing 1-a Football in a 1-aa conference, and the Big Sky only made it because they are playing the waiting game for the Sunbelt to kick out Idaho.

It was not technically the NCAA that prevented ULL from remaining in the Southland, the Southland could have allowed ULL to be a 1-a independent. It was a tough spot the NCAA put both the conference and the school in though.

(09-02-2015 10:30 AM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 10:17 AM)NittanyLion Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 08:41 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I haven't counted, but I don't believe that "most" have made it back to FBS.

FWIW, the count on the 37 schools in that link that were listed as being reclassified to D-1AA:

Ivy League (8) - Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Yale

MAC schools "who wound up not really being reclassified" (6) - Ball State, BGSU, Eastern Michigan, Kent State, Northern Illinois, Ohio University

Reclassified than back to D-1A/FBS (6) - Appalachian State, Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, North Texas, Louisiana-Monroe

Reclassified and still D-1AA/FCS (15) - The Citadel, Colgate, Drake, ETSU, Furman, Holy Cross, Illinois State, Indiana State, Lamar, Richmond, Southern Illinois, Chattanooga, VMI, Western Carolina, William & Mary

Reclassified and currently no football team (1) - Texas-Arlington

Reclassified and currently D2 (1) - West Texas State

Several of those on the "Reclassified and still D-1AA/FCS" list dropped the program and subsequently restarted. ETSU 2003-2014, Lamar 1989-2009. There may be others, but those two are examples.

Southland-ULL, ULM, UNT, LT, Arkansas St. are in FBS, McNeese is in FCS, UTA and Lamar dropped football.

(09-02-2015 11:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  Southland-ULL, ULM, UNT, LT, Arkansas St. are in FBS, McNeese is in FCS, UTA and Lamar dropped football.

To further break it down, ULL, Louisiana Tech, and Arkansas State were members when the conference was reclassified to D-IAA.

Also impacted by reclassification, UNT and ULM both joined the SLC in 1982 after the reclassification. ULM had been a D-IA independent prior to joining the SLC. If I recall correctly, the Southland Conference football teams were separate from the remainder of the conference for some years in the '90's. In football, the Warhawks left in 1994 to transition to D-IA. (I need to pin down the period.) That allowed ULM to remain an SLC member in all conference sponsored sports except football until 2006. I believe UNT was an independent prior to joining the SLC.

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Years later, Troy was another program with Southland Conference ties which transitioned from D-IAA to D-IA . Troy was an SLC associate member in football from 1996-2001. Troy had been a football independent prior to the associate membership in the SLC. The Trojans left the SLC to move to D-IA.

In recent times Texas State (1987-2012) and UTSA (1991-2012) had been SLC members prior to their transition to D-IA. UTSA started a new program while Texas State had a long history in football.

(09-02-2015 01:50 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 11:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  Southland-ULL, ULM, UNT, LT, Arkansas St. are in FBS, McNeese is in FCS, UTA and Lamar dropped football.

To further break it down, ULL, Louisiana Tech, and Arkansas State were members when the conference was reclassified to D-IAA.

Also impacted by reclassification, UNT and ULM both joined the SLC in 1982 after the reclassification. ULM had been a D-IA independent prior to joining the SLC. If I recall correctly, the Southland Conference football teams were separate from the remainder of the conference for some years in the '90's. In football, the Warhawks left in 1994 to transition to D-IA. (I need to pin down the period.) That allowed ULM to remain an SLC member in all conference sponsored sports except football until 2006. I believe UNT was an independent prior to joining the SLC.

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Years later, Troy was another program with Southland Conference ties which transitioned from D-IAA to D-IA . Troy was an SLC associate member in football from 1996-2001. Troy had been a football independent prior to the associate membership in the SLC. The Trojans left the SLC to move to D-IA.

In recent times Texas State (1987-2012) and UTSA (1991-2012) had been SLC members prior to their transition to D-IA. UTSA started a new program while Texas State had a long history in football.

Was McNeese State an independent program after 1982 at 1a before going down to 1aa? There were several FCS that were independents back in the mid to late 80's.

(09-02-2015 10:21 AM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 08:41 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 11:37 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Its funny though looking at the schools that were reclassified, most of them have made their way back to 1A FBS level. Ashame that end result of all this was getting rid of the IVY's at the 1A level. They could have really provided a boost in the Northeast during the BCS and now the Playoff era.

I haven't counted, but I don't believe that "most" have made it back to FBS. From the SoCon only Marshall and App.St. have returned. From the Southland, La.Tech, ULL, and Ark. St. have returned. No Ivies or independents have returned. I don't believe the MAC schools were ever actually forced to move down since they were somehow able to qualify as a conference rather than on an individual school basis.

With respect to the Ivies, I believe the reclassification actually helped Eastern football. There were 20 D1 schools in the Northeast prior to reclassification, and really only 5 or so were committed to playing at a national level.

The Ivy League itself was committed to playing nonscholarship ball with academic entrance requirements far higher than applicable in any other conference. They were not competitive nationally and, as a result, had lost significant fan interest. I also believe the major conferences were tired of sharing NCAA TV money with the Ivies, which brought nothing to the table for the national TV package. This is why they wrote the rules to kick the Ivies out. 1-AA was created as a soft landing place so the Ivies and others would still officially be D1.

The reclassification forced those borderline schools that wanted to play 1-A to raise their game. Rutgers and Temple, in particular, dramatically increase their commitment to competing. BC, although not borderline, also substantially increased its commitment. Rutgers and Temple had previously played Ivy level schedules against Princeton, Colgate and others. BC annually played Holy Cross, Villanova and UMass. Those rivalries were replaced by games against each other and the stronger Eastern Independents, i.e., Penn St., Pitt, Syracuse, and WVU.

Penn St. even tried to organize a 1-A Eastern football conference, but failed largely because of Syracuse, BC and Pitt's preference to play in the Big East for basketball. This ultimately led to Penn State joining the B1G, which in turn prompted the formation of the Big East Football Conference.

Interesting topic and one that brings back bad memories.

For the Southland, ULL, Arkansas State, and Louisiana Tech represented 50% of the conference membership at the time of the force down. ULL met the requirements to stay at D-1A and chose to stay at that level. The Cajuns were forced out of the conference because of conference rules. Another member, McNeese State, could have remained at D-1A having met the attendance requirements, but chose to move down with the conference. Louisiana Tech was very close to meeting the requirements, but had a bad season in 1979. Other programs were close, but no cigar also.

For the Southland, the reclassification was one of the causes of instability. Subsequent changes in membership weakened a pretty good basketball conference also. Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, and Lamar left the conference in 1987 to join ULL, New Orleans, and UTPA (now UTRGV) to form the American South Conference. ULL, Louisiana Tech, and Lamar all had made Sweet 16 appearances in the men's tournament. Louisiana Tech was a basketball power in Women's basketball.

On the football side, Texas-Arlington dropped football after the 1985 season. Lamar dropped football in 1989 after four seasons as a D-IAA independent.

The interesting thing is that using today's rolling 15,000 average, that conference would have qualified. I haven't researched it, but I would venture a guess that would hold true for the other conferences forced down.

The change was a crooked deal. It was voted after the season with no opportunity to adjust. Schools were rolling along following the rules and boom those rules no longer applied. With just a one year implementation Arkansas State and North Texas would have made it by hastily throwing up some seats because of the home and away attendance element.

Many of those voted out applied for waivers and all were rejected. The AState waiver was the only one that got close but that was because Bear Bryant campaigned for us. AState's Larry Lacewell was the son of Bryant's best friend in high school and his mother had dated Bryant.

The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league). NMSU was approached but felt their future was better aligning with the California schools of the PCAA/Big West. Memphis was approached but wasn't interested. In the end it came down to whether one of Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech or North Texas could get a waiver, none did and it all fell apart.

(09-02-2015 10:31 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Looking at how close the mvc and southland were un meeting the 50% rule it leads me to believe the rules were written intentionally to disqualify. Long term The Big 10 was very smart in saving the MAC. I guess at the time with loose regulations about playing 1aa schools other power conference at the time didnt see the need to have a little brother 1a conference like the big 10 did

Going in, it was expected the PCAA/Big West and MAC would both end up on the wrong side of the line. One of the PCAA schools ended up having a good year and had enough of a boost to make it saving them all. Of course then several ended up dropping football.

(09-02-2015 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 11:37 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/NCAANewsArchive/...820215.pdf

Check out this link about the 1982 forced reclassification that nabbed the Ivy League, the Socon, the Soutland, and the MVC

It very clearly lays out the 4 requirements to be 1-A, and you must meet one of the following

1. Have 17K average home attendance every year for the past 4 years

2. Have 17K average home attendance in 1 of the past 4 years AND play in a 30K stadium

3. Have 20K average home AND away attendance for the past 4 years if your stadium is less than 30K OR 1 in the past 4 years if your stadium is 30K or greater

4. Play in a minimum of a 6 team conference where at least half the members meet 1-a classification guidelines

The Big West stayed alive due to rule #4 and that explains how they ended up being a mismash in the late 80's and early 90's of wayward football programs.

The MAC did to as they did not take no for an answer and schools like NIU and Bowling Green fought the decision until the MAC met rule 4
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1982/...division-i

Its funny though looking at the schools that were reclassified, most of them have made their way back to 1A FBS level. Ashame that end result of all this was getting rid of the IVY's at the 1A level. They could have really provided a boost in the Northeast during the BCS and now the Playoff era.

Of the 4 in question per the article, I believe Southwest Louisiana and Western Michigan made it, but Miami and Cincinnati didn't. Meanwhile, McNeese made it in the Southland, but moved down and never moved back up. Arkansas St., La Tech, NW St. (now ULM) and North didn't make it but later moved back up.

Cincinnati sued and got an injunction. The NCAA settled by saying if Cincinnati met the requirements in 1982 they got to stay and if they missed they would go down.

Southland bylaws required schools to play football in the league.

ULM wasn't in the SLC at the time and they were NE Louisiana not NW State.

(09-02-2015 07:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league). NMSU was approached but felt their future was better aligning with the California schools of the PCAA/Big West. Memphis was approached but wasn't interested. In the end it came down to whether one of Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech or North Texas could get a waiver, none did and it all fell apart.

I bet they wish they could redo that choice.

(09-02-2015 07:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league).

If Tulsa, Wichita, ULL, and McNeese all met the requirements and were willing to form a new conference, why not grab La Tech, Ark st, Lamar, UTA and either form a new conference or just add Tulsa and Wichita to the Southland. They would have met the 50% requirement that way, NMSU could have gone west and the rest of the MVC could have gone 1aa as they did.

Definitely a sleazy thing to do by the NCAA. Funny that it was all for naught when the NCAA TV cartel was broken up by the Supreme Court.

(09-02-2015 08:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 07:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league).

If Tulsa, Wichita, ULL, and McNeese all met the requirements and were willing to form a new conference, why not grab La Tech, Ark st, Lamar, UTA and either form a new conference or just add Tulsa and Wichita to the Southland. They would have met the 50% requirement that way, NMSU could have gone west and the rest of the MVC could have gone 1aa as they did.

Definitely a sleazy thing to do by the NCAA. Funny that it was all for naught when the NCAA TV cartel was broken up by the Supreme Court.

They weren't a conference at the time and 50% rule only applied to remaining I-A not moving up.

(09-02-2015 07:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league). NMSU was approached but felt their future was better aligning with the California schools of the PCAA/Big West. Memphis was approached but wasn't interested. In the end it came down to whether one of Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech or North Texas could get a waiver, none did and it all fell apart.

I find all the "what if?" components of this fascinating. For the want of 1 more school, there would have been another D-1A conference in the South in 1982, one that would have been fairly similar to the Sun Belt of 2000.

If that conference formed, I think it would have been better long-term for many schools, but particularly for a school like ULL. I know that was a tough 18 years for ULL from 1982 to 1999: "18 years of wandering the D-1A wilderness" --- typically an independent, an adventure for a few years in the Big West, forever struggling until 1999 until enough schools got back to D-1A to get the critical mass of schools necessary to form a new football conference.

Were Louisville and/or Tulane also approached for this hypothetical conference? I imagine that Tulane would have been snobby, with a "this is beneath us" attitude. But Louisville was somewhat geographically close, had not yet emerged into a regional power (that happened in the late 80s under Schnellenberger), and was already playing a few of the prospective conferences mates on a regular basis.

Regarding New Mexico State --- they probably DID make the right decision aligning with the PCAA. I was just in Las Cruses a couple weeks ago and one thing is obvious: it's a western town and a western school. NMSU's geography allows them to "lean" either west or east, but I think if things are equal, they SHOULD lean west.

(09-02-2015 07:58 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Going in, it was expected the PCAA/Big West and MAC would both end up on the wrong side of the line. One of the PCAA schools ended up having a good year and had enough of a boost to make it saving them all. Of course then several ended up dropping football.

Here's the REAL interesting thing as I re-read this (and if I am interpreting it correctly):

The NCAA rules required a conference with at least six football-playing institutions to have more than half of the institutions meet the attendance requirements.

So, the PCAA, as it was constituted in 1981, did NOT meet the requirement. The PCAA only had 6 football-playing schools, and only 3 cleared the requirement (Fresno State, Pacific, Utah State).

However, UNLV, which played as an independent in 1981, did meet the requirement and was joining the conference in 1982. So counting UNLV, the PCAA is at 4 of 7, which is of course over 50%.

So now San Jose State, Long Beach State and Cal State-Fullerton also avoid the D-1AA classification.

San Jose State, of course, still plays D-1A/FBS football today --- although they've often been at the fringes of the D-1A/FBS landscape. One wonders: if not for the somewhat fortuitous luck of UNLV joining the PCAA at just the right time, would San Jose State not be a FBS school today?

(09-02-2015 10:23 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  Of the ones sent down in '82, I believe only App State, Marshall, La Tech, North Texas, ULM (then Northeast Louisiana) and Arkansas State came back. All but App did it pretty quickly (within a decade or so) while it took App 22 years. Actually, App met the qualifications in '82 but chose to stay with the SoCon rather than follow their arch-rival ECU into the I-A independent wasteland.

Everyone else to move up to FBS since '82 either didn't have a team in '82 or were never I-A before '82.

I've heard the MAC was saved by the Big Ten because they wanted to count MAC wins towards bowl eligibility. The Southland, MVC, and SoCon had no such benefactor plus many if their schools were happy for the downgrade. Some standings still list Richmond and William & Mary as I-A independents in '83. I believe they were involved in a lawsuit of some sort before accepting their fate.

That independent wasteland included teams like Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Rutgers, Penn State, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Navy, South Carolina, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Miami, and Florida State.

(09-02-2015 06:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 01:50 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 11:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  Southland-ULL, ULM, UNT, LT, Arkansas St. are in FBS, McNeese is in FCS, UTA and Lamar dropped football.

To further break it down, ULL, Louisiana Tech, and Arkansas State were members when the conference was reclassified to D-IAA.

Also impacted by reclassification, UNT and ULM both joined the SLC in 1982 after the reclassification. ULM had been a D-IA independent prior to joining the SLC. If I recall correctly, the Southland Conference football teams were separate from the remainder of the conference for some years in the '90's. In football, the Warhawks left in 1994 to transition to D-IA. (I need to pin down the period.) That allowed ULM to remain an SLC member in all conference sponsored sports except football until 2006. I believe UNT was an independent prior to joining the SLC.

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Years later, Troy was another program with Southland Conference ties which transitioned from D-IAA to D-IA . Troy was an SLC associate member in football from 1996-2001. Troy had been a football independent prior to the associate membership in the SLC. The Trojans left the SLC to move to D-IA.

In recent times Texas State (1987-2012) and UTSA (1991-2012) had been SLC members prior to their transition to D-IA. UTSA started a new program while Texas State had a long history in football.

Was McNeese State an independent program after 1982 at 1a before going down to 1aa? There were several FCS that were independents back in the mid to late 80's.

All but ULL stayed in the Southland in I-AA. It was over time that 4 drifted up and 2 dropped and McNeese was left alone with new members.

(09-02-2015 08:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 08:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 07:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league).

If Tulsa, Wichita, ULL, and McNeese all met the requirements and were willing to form a new conference, why not grab La Tech, Ark st, Lamar, UTA and either form a new conference or just add Tulsa and Wichita to the Southland. They would have met the 50% requirement that way, NMSU could have gone west and the rest of the MVC could have gone 1aa as they did.

Definitely a sleazy thing to do by the NCAA. Funny that it was all for naught when the NCAA TV cartel was broken up by the Supreme Court.

They weren't a conference at the time and 50% rule only applied to remaining I-A not moving up.

But ull and Mcneese met the requirements as did tulsa and Wichita. Why not add tulsa and Wichita to the 6 team southland to make it an 8 team southland. The 4 that met the requirements ULL, Mcnese, Tulsa and Wichita would have given cover to the 4 that didnt La Tech , Ark st, Lamar and UT Arlington.

(09-02-2015 08:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 07:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league). NMSU was approached but felt their future was better aligning with the California schools of the PCAA/Big West. Memphis was approached but wasn't interested. In the end it came down to whether one of Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech or North Texas could get a waiver, none did and it all fell apart.

I bet they wish they could redo that choice.

In retrospect it might seem like NMSU made a mistake joining the PCAA/Big West, but as NittanyLion correctly judged - NMSU is very much a western school with a western culture - plus significant alumni on the West Coast.

The decision to go to the PCAA/Big West was really a no brainer - NMSU had long sought a more 'comfortable' Western home and the PCAA/BW was it. NMSU football was never successful in the BW (some of our worst years - and that's saying something), but I think we would have been equally dismal in a more Eastern based conference as well. And - NMSU basketball thrived in the BW years. Developing a healthy rivalry with Jerry Tarkanian and UNLV and making numerous NCAA appearances, including a sweet 16. Except for the demise of the California football playing schools (ok, that's major), the BW was a great fit for NMSU.

A note on the 1A requirements: Prior to 1978, NMSU played in a very old 13,000 seat stadium. I distinctly remember that NMSU 'sold' the need for a new 30,000 seat stadium to the state legislature based on upcoming NCAA attendance/stadium size requirements (the same ones outlined in this thread). NMSU's new stadium - Aggie Memorial Stadium opened for the 1978 season. So there had been some discussion from the NCAA about new 1A requirements prior to the hammer being lowered in 1982.

Great topic and thread.

The earliest mention I have found of what ended up happening in 1981 was in a 1975 article in the Arkansas Gazette. University of Arkansas athletic director Frank Broyles was quoted as saying there would eventually be a Division IV with basically the criteria adopted in 1981 but he expected it to be all sports not just football. Coincidentally, first year Division I football member Arkansas State was wrapping up an 11-0 season at about that time.

It had been bandied around but never reduced to an actual proposal until 1981.

(09-02-2015 07:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 10:21 AM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 08:41 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 11:37 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Its funny though looking at the schools that were reclassified, most of them have made their way back to 1A FBS level. Ashame that end result of all this was getting rid of the IVY's at the 1A level. They could have really provided a boost in the Northeast during the BCS and now the Playoff era.

I haven't counted, but I don't believe that "most" have made it back to FBS. From the SoCon only Marshall and App.St. have returned. From the Southland, La.Tech, ULL, and Ark. St. have returned. No Ivies or independents have returned. I don't believe the MAC schools were ever actually forced to move down since they were somehow able to qualify as a conference rather than on an individual school basis.

With respect to the Ivies, I believe the reclassification actually helped Eastern football. There were 20 D1 schools in the Northeast prior to reclassification, and really only 5 or so were committed to playing at a national level.

The Ivy League itself was committed to playing nonscholarship ball with academic entrance requirements far higher than applicable in any other conference. They were not competitive nationally and, as a result, had lost significant fan interest. I also believe the major conferences were tired of sharing NCAA TV money with the Ivies, which brought nothing to the table for the national TV package. This is why they wrote the rules to kick the Ivies out. 1-AA was created as a soft landing place so the Ivies and others would still officially be D1.

The reclassification forced those borderline schools that wanted to play 1-A to raise their game. Rutgers and Temple, in particular, dramatically increase their commitment to competing. BC, although not borderline, also substantially increased its commitment. Rutgers and Temple had previously played Ivy level schedules against Princeton, Colgate and others. BC annually played Holy Cross, Villanova and UMass. Those rivalries were replaced by games against each other and the stronger Eastern Independents, i.e., Penn St., Pitt, Syracuse, and WVU.

Penn St. even tried to organize a 1-A Eastern football conference, but failed largely because of Syracuse, BC and Pitt's preference to play in the Big East for basketball. This ultimately led to Penn State joining the B1G, which in turn prompted the formation of the Big East Football Conference.

Interesting topic and one that brings back bad memories.

For the Southland, ULL, Arkansas State, and Louisiana Tech represented 50% of the conference membership at the time of the force down. ULL met the requirements to stay at D-1A and chose to stay at that level. The Cajuns were forced out of the conference because of conference rules. Another member, McNeese State, could have remained at D-1A having met the attendance requirements, but chose to move down with the conference. Louisiana Tech was very close to meeting the requirements, but had a bad season in 1979. Other programs were close, but no cigar also.

For the Southland, the reclassification was one of the causes of instability. Subsequent changes in membership weakened a pretty good basketball conference also. Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, and Lamar left the conference in 1987 to join ULL, New Orleans, and UTPA (now UTRGV) to form the American South Conference. ULL, Louisiana Tech, and Lamar all had made Sweet 16 appearances in the men's tournament. Louisiana Tech was a basketball power in Women's basketball.

On the football side, Texas-Arlington dropped football after the 1985 season. Lamar dropped football in 1989 after four seasons as a D-IAA independent.

The interesting thing is that using today's rolling 15,000 average, that conference would have qualified. I haven't researched it, but I would venture a guess that would hold true for the other conferences forced down.

The change was a crooked deal. It was voted after the season with no opportunity to adjust. Schools were rolling along following the rules and boom those rules no longer applied. With just a one year implementation Arkansas State and North Texas would have made it by hastily throwing up some seats because of the home and away attendance element.

Many of those voted out applied for waivers and all were rejected. The AState waiver was the only one that got close but that was because Bear Bryant campaigned for us. AState's Larry Lacewell was the son of Bryant's best friend in high school and his mother had dated Bryant.

The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league). NMSU was approached but felt their future was better aligning with the California schools of the PCAA/Big West. Memphis was approached but wasn't interested. In the end it came down to whether one of Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech or North Texas could get a waiver, none did and it all fell apart.

That would have essentially been Missouri State's dream conference not named the Big 12, SEC, or Big Ten.

(09-02-2015 07:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The change was a crooked deal. It was voted after the season with no opportunity to adjust. Schools were rolling along following the rules and boom those rules no longer applied. With just a one year implementation Arkansas State and North Texas would have made it by hastily throwing up some seats because of the home and away attendance element.

Many of those voted out applied for waivers and all were rejected. The AState waiver was the only one that got close but that was because Bear Bryant campaigned for us. AState's Larry Lacewell was the son of Bryant's best friend in high school and his mother had dated Bryant.

The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league). NMSU was approached but felt their future was better aligning with the California schools of the PCAA/Big West. Memphis was approached but wasn't interested. In the end it came down to whether one of Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech or North Texas could get a waiver, none did and it all fell apart.

Interesting stuff. Makes you wonder if Wichita State would've kept their football program had they been in a DI-A conference instead of the demoted Valley. The MAC may have tried to add Missouri State or someone else instead of Akron in 1992, Marshall/NIU in 1997, or Buffalo in 1998. Schools that didn't get to FBS until the 21st century might have gotten called up a lot earlier (probably the early 2000s Sun Belt schools at first). The what-ifs are endless.

(09-02-2015 10:52 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 07:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The change was a crooked deal. It was voted after the season with no opportunity to adjust. Schools were rolling along following the rules and boom those rules no longer applied. With just a one year implementation Arkansas State and North Texas would have made it by hastily throwing up some seats because of the home and away attendance element.

Many of those voted out applied for waivers and all were rejected. The AState waiver was the only one that got close but that was because Bear Bryant campaigned for us. AState's Larry Lacewell was the son of Bryant's best friend in high school and his mother had dated Bryant.

The change nearly created a new conference. Tulsa and Wichita State of the Valley and Louisiana Lafayette and McNeese had a hasty meeting to try to form a new football league. Southern Miss indicated they would join and they needed a 6th (rules of the day permitted a league to form with six and could be a football only league). NMSU was approached but felt their future was better aligning with the California schools of the PCAA/Big West. Memphis was approached but wasn't interested. In the end it came down to whether one of Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech or North Texas could get a waiver, none did and it all fell apart.

Interesting stuff. Makes you wonder if Wichita State would've kept their football program had they been in a DI-A conference instead of the demoted Valley. The MAC may have tried to add Missouri State or someone else instead of Akron in 1992, Marshall/NIU in 1997, or Buffalo in 1998. Schools that didn't get to FBS until the 21st century might have gotten called up a lot earlier (probably the early 2000s Sun Belt schools at first). The what-ifs are endless.

If a school was required a conference invite to move up by 1985 that would have prevented Akron from ever doing it and joining the MAC.

Then Marshall, Buffalo, NIU all join in the late 90's. UCF never gets into the MAC and remains independent until they join CUSA. Marshall leaves and the MAC is down to 11 schools.

Temple would have been available Marshall's replacement and with an even 12 in football UMass would never have been invited up.

The WAC would still be around, not the SBC today. Louisiana, Texas State, Arkansas State would all be in it along with New Mexico State. It might have been absorbed completely by CUSA during the last round of realignment with WKU/MTSU never moving up.