GT was tough under Ross, no doubt. UNC was tough under Mack Brown; UVa was tough under George Welsh, too.

However, most of these success stories involve ONE coaching regime only. So the lessons are (1) these teams CAN reach the top 15, but (2) it requires a special coach to do so.

(09-28-2015 12:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  GT was tough under Ross, no doubt. UNC was tough under Mack Brown; UVa was tough under George Welsh, too.

However, most of these success stories involve ONE coaching regime only. So the lessons are (1) these teams CAN reach the top 15, but (2) it requires a special coach to do so.

I don't even think it requires a special coach just a good one. Welsh was good but I don't think he ever won the league outright. Ross really had one great season at GT. It just happens to be the one they won the national title. Mack Brown turned UNC from also rans to a top 5 team. However, Mack never won the conference either.

So it doesn't really require a special coach, just someone who's going to come in and get it done.

(09-28-2015 07:31 AM)WNCOrange Wrote:  

(09-27-2015 09:28 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  I can see Syracuse winning 8-9 games this year, as long as they stay healthy at QB.

That shipped has sailed. We are playing our 5th string guy.

Our 2nd string QB (Dungey) is expected back for @USF...barring any injury...he should play in every game left on the schedule. I see winning 8 or 9 games as our absolute top side. The trouble is 4 of the next 5 games are away...thanks ACC schedulers (but 3 or 4 of the 5 games are pretty winnable).

(09-28-2015 09:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 09:15 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 07:31 AM)WNCOrange Wrote:  

(09-27-2015 09:28 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  I can see Syracuse winning 8-9 games this year, as long as they stay healthy at QB.

That shipped has sailed. We are playing our 5th string guy.

Syracuse has a bye week then play @ USF, @ Virginia & Pitt, that should be enough time to get Dungey back. Those are likely wins & put the Cuse at 6-1. FSU & Clemson are likely losses. To reach 8, Cuse would have to win 2 out of @UofL, @ NC St & BC. It's doable if Dungey stays healthy.

Most likely 'Cuse wins 6, goes to a bowl for a shot at 7-6 record.
Right there with VT...

I think 7-5 is most likely outcome...sent to the Pinstripe to play Penn State.

(09-28-2015 12:17 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 12:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  GT was tough under Ross, no doubt. UNC was tough under Mack Brown; UVa was tough under George Welsh, too.

However, most of these success stories involve ONE coaching regime only. So the lessons are (1) these teams CAN reach the top 15, but (2) it requires a special coach to do so.

I don't even think it requires a special coach just a good one. Welsh was good but I don't think he ever won the league outright. Ross really had one great season at GT. It just happens to be the one they won the national title. Mack Brown turned UNC from also rans to a top 5 team. However, Mack never won the conference either.

So it doesn't really require a special coach, just someone who's going to come in and get it done.

It's no surprise that coaching matters. It even matters at places like Bama and LSU and FSU.

But it takes the cojones and cash to cycle through enough coaches until you find the right guy. There is absolutely nobody that thinks that Mike London might be the right guy since 2011. Yet he still roams the sidelines at one of the "sleeping giants".

It took John Bunting FIVE non-winning seasons before UNC sent him on his way.

Don't talk to me about those programs ever getting better until they prove they operate differently. You can't find success that way.

Yeah, I know. Frank Beamer. Different era.

Virginia and North Carolina aren't sleeping. They're dead. They never lived. They have neither the desire to prioritize football enough to keep a hot coach, nor the mindset to replace a poor one.

Fedora has four seasons of declining fortunes...and nobody's even saying he's on the hot seat?

UNC and Virginia will never be good because they have no interest in doing what it takes to be good. GT will never be elite for the same reason.

Either football success matters in the ACC, or it doesn't. Obviously, many in the ACC and on this board don't really think it matters. And if that's the case, no need to do anything.

(09-28-2015 03:34 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 09:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 09:15 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 07:31 AM)WNCOrange Wrote:  

(09-27-2015 09:28 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  I can see Syracuse winning 8-9 games this year, as long as they stay healthy at QB.

That shipped has sailed. We are playing our 5th string guy.

Syracuse has a bye week then play @ USF, @ Virginia & Pitt, that should be enough time to get Dungey back. Those are likely wins & put the Cuse at 6-1. FSU & Clemson are likely losses. To reach 8, Cuse would have to win 2 out of @UofL, @ NC St & BC. It's doable if Dungey stays healthy.

Most likely 'Cuse wins 6, goes to a bowl for a shot at 7-6 record.
Right there with VT...

I think 7-5 is most likely outcome...sent to the Pinstripe to beat Penn State.

FIFY

ACC = Football Turds

(09-28-2015 04:38 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  ACC = Football Turds

(09-28-2015 10:34 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 10:26 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 09:08 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  GT is what they've been forever. In the past 24 years since their title, they have lost 5+ games 18 times, and 4+ games 20 times. They had a good year last year. They will have another one sometime between 2020 and 2024 probably.

GT will not be a tent pole football program in this league, it's shown no indication is can or will be.

Reasonable expectations for GT should be a Top 25 program. That doesn't mean "others receiving votes" ... that means in the Top 25 nearly non-stop. And it should win 1 out of 3 against the retards in Athens. And once every 5 years or so be really good (Top 10).

similar for VT

It SHOULD be reasonable. A program with a decent history/tradition located in the 2nd best southeastern state/metro for recruits. But it's not reasonable because expecting them to do something they haven't done in forever isn't reasonable, like Lou C said.

It's more reasonable for VT. Which HAS legitimately and consistently done that in recent history. Just don't make some garbage hire, whatever you do.

Who are coaches ACC schools should keep an eye on (Miami, UNC, UVA, VT). Wake, Pitt, NC State likely have a few years before they'll need to make a change, if they need to make one. Cuse maybe needs another couple years just due to the injuries. FSU, Clemson, BC, Duke and UL are set at HC. GT should probably make a change but they won't (even with last year's top 10 finish, they're 41-30 since the start of 2010; a .577 winning percentage; weak).

Mark Stoops
Mark Hudspeth
Mario Cristobal
Bobby Wilder
Dino Babers
Matt Campbell
Justin Fuente

Those are just coaches who have actually been head coaches and for more than 1-2 seasons.

Sure there are some assistants out there as well as NFL guys.

(09-28-2015 03:34 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 12:17 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 12:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  GT was tough under Ross, no doubt. UNC was tough under Mack Brown; UVa was tough under George Welsh, too.

However, most of these success stories involve ONE coaching regime only. So the lessons are (1) these teams CAN reach the top 15, but (2) it requires a special coach to do so.

I don't even think it requires a special coach just a good one. Welsh was good but I don't think he ever won the league outright. Ross really had one great season at GT. It just happens to be the one they won the national title. Mack Brown turned UNC from also rans to a top 5 team. However, Mack never won the conference either.

So it doesn't really require a special coach, just someone who's going to come in and get it done.

It's no surprise that coaching matters. It even matters at places like Bama and LSU and FSU.

But it takes the cojones and cash to cycle through enough coaches until you find the right guy. There is absolutely nobody that thinks that Mike London might be the right guy since 2011. Yet he still roams the sidelines at one of the "sleeping giants".

It took John Bunting FIVE non-winning seasons before UNC sent him on his way.

Don't talk to me about those programs ever getting better until they prove they operate differently. You can't find success that way.

Yeah, I know. Frank Beamer. Different era.

Virginia and North Carolina aren't sleeping. They're dead. They never lived. They have neither the desire to prioritize football enough to keep a hot coach, nor the mindset to replace a poor one.

Fedora has four seasons of declining fortunes...and nobody's even saying he's on the hot seat?

UNC and Virginia will never be good because they have no interest in doing what it takes to be good. GT will never be elite for the same reason.

Either football success matters in the ACC, or it doesn't. Obviously, many in the ACC and on this board don't really think it matters. And if that's the case, no need to do anything.

Fedora was brought in to help get through all of the NCAA crap. We can't hire a top coach at the moment. Not until that blows over. We did hire Butch Davis whom we thought was a top coach, but that didn't quite workout.

(09-28-2015 03:34 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 12:17 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 12:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  GT was tough under Ross, no doubt. UNC was tough under Mack Brown; UVa was tough under George Welsh, too.

However, most of these success stories involve ONE coaching regime only. So the lessons are (1) these teams CAN reach the top 15, but (2) it requires a special coach to do so.

I don't even think it requires a special coach just a good one. Welsh was good but I don't think he ever won the league outright. Ross really had one great season at GT. It just happens to be the one they won the national title. Mack Brown turned UNC from also rans to a top 5 team. However, Mack never won the conference either.

So it doesn't really require a special coach, just someone who's going to come in and get it done.

It's no surprise that coaching matters. It even matters at places like Bama and LSU and FSU.

But it takes the cojones and cash to cycle through enough coaches until you find the right guy. There is absolutely nobody that thinks that Mike London might be the right guy since 2011. Yet he still roams the sidelines at one of the "sleeping giants".

.

I saw this little blurb today about Virginias coach and his decision regarding his QB's:

"Throughout the offseason, Johns was in a quarterback competition with Greyson Lambert. After summer practices, London said "It wasn't even close," and quickly named Johns the starter. So what did Lambert do? He transferred to Georgia, won the starting job and is having a breakout season for a reputable SEC program. Under center for the Bulldogs, he has gone 52-for-68, thrown for 733 yards and added seven touchdowns with no interceptions so far.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but this is another bad look for London and his staff."



Talk about misjudging talent. All I can say is WOW!
Also shocked that Lambert is able to play so soon after transferring.

I think we need to keep in mind that no matter how much UNC may have wanted to keep Mack Brown, it wasn't going to happen. Whenever Carolina might discover another jewel like Brown, they know that it's only a matter of time before he leaves for a destination job. That's a treadmill they will never be able to get off.

I think UVa would be in that same category. Both schools' best bet for winning consistently is to find a coach who is good, but not so good that the A-list teams will poach him. So is that realism, or does it mean they don't care about winning?

(09-28-2015 08:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think we need to keep in mind that no matter how much UNC may have wanted to keep Mack Brown, it wasn't going to happen. Whenever Carolina might discover another jewel like Brown, they know that it's only a matter of time before he leaves for a destination job. That's a treadmill they will never be able to get off.

I think UVa would be in that same category. Both schools' best bet for winning consistently is to find a coach who is good, but not so good that the A-list teams will poach him. So is that realism, or does it mean they don't care about winning?

Ken, don't you think a diamond in the ruff, type of coach who turns out to be a jewel, would want to stay at a UNC/Virginia type school to have an easier path to the playoffs and be able to coach at a prestigious state flagship university? Not to mention there would be far less pressure at one of these schools when you are successful.

(09-28-2015 08:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think we need to keep in mind that no matter how much UNC may have wanted to keep Mack Brown, it wasn't going to happen. Whenever Carolina might discover another jewel like Brown, they know that it's only a matter of time before he leaves for a destination job. That's a treadmill they will never be able to get off.

I think UVa would be in that same category. Both schools' best bet for winning consistently is to find a coach who is good, but not so good that the A-list teams will poach him. So is that realism, or does it mean they don't care about winning?

You say that but it was TEXAS that took him. There are few schools in the country that will be able to keep their coach if the Horns come calling.

However, you do raise a good point. Having a good coach is a two edged sword for a school like UNC. Eventually some big school will come calling. We need to find a David Cutcliffe...good coach who decided to spurn the overtures of bigger schools.

(09-28-2015 08:44 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 08:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think we need to keep in mind that no matter how much UNC may have wanted to keep Mack Brown, it wasn't going to happen. Whenever Carolina might discover another jewel like Brown, they know that it's only a matter of time before he leaves for a destination job. That's a treadmill they will never be able to get off.

I think UVa would be in that same category. Both schools' best bet for winning consistently is to find a coach who is good, but not so good that the A-list teams will poach him. So is that realism, or does it mean they don't care about winning?

You say that but it was TEXAS that took him. There are few schools in the country that will be able to keep their coach if the Horns come calling.

However, you do raise a good point. Having a good coach is a two edged sword for a school like UNC. Eventually some big school will come calling. We need to find a David Cutcliffe...good coach who decided to spurn the overtures of bigger schools.

The key there is age. Cutcliffe is too old to start over. Mack Brown wasn't (at the time). UNC may be well-served hiring an older coach...

(09-28-2015 09:00 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 08:44 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 08:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think we need to keep in mind that no matter how much UNC may have wanted to keep Mack Brown, it wasn't going to happen. Whenever Carolina might discover another jewel like Brown, they know that it's only a matter of time before he leaves for a destination job. That's a treadmill they will never be able to get off.

I think UVa would be in that same category. Both schools' best bet for winning consistently is to find a coach who is good, but not so good that the A-list teams will poach him. So is that realism, or does it mean they don't care about winning?

You say that but it was TEXAS that took him. There are few schools in the country that will be able to keep their coach if the Horns come calling.

However, you do raise a good point. Having a good coach is a two edged sword for a school like UNC. Eventually some big school will come calling. We need to find a David Cutcliffe...good coach who decided to spurn the overtures of bigger schools.

The key there is age. Cutcliffe is too old to start over. Mack Brown wasn't (at the time). UNC may be well-served hiring an older coach...

We did in Butch Davis.

(09-28-2015 09:05 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 09:00 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 08:44 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 08:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think we need to keep in mind that no matter how much UNC may have wanted to keep Mack Brown, it wasn't going to happen. Whenever Carolina might discover another jewel like Brown, they know that it's only a matter of time before he leaves for a destination job. That's a treadmill they will never be able to get off.

I think UVa would be in that same category. Both schools' best bet for winning consistently is to find a coach who is good, but not so good that the A-list teams will poach him. So is that realism, or does it mean they don't care about winning?

You say that but it was TEXAS that took him. There are few schools in the country that will be able to keep their coach if the Horns come calling.

However, you do raise a good point. Having a good coach is a two edged sword for a school like UNC. Eventually some big school will come calling. We need to find a David Cutcliffe...good coach who decided to spurn the overtures of bigger schools.

The key there is age. Cutcliffe is too old to start over. Mack Brown wasn't (at the time). UNC may be well-served hiring an older coach...

We did in Butch Davis.

And you made him the scapegoat for academic fraud that was in place long before he got there in an attempt to shield men's basketball from scrutiny.

How'd that work out for you?

Bring in Tressel.

(09-27-2015 09:34 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I'm seeing more from teams from the Atlantic than I am the Coastal. I think UL is closer to the top 2 than being in some mix for 3-15.

5-11 can be mixed in any order you want at this point. As for Miami, I'm not ready to put them in the grouping with Louisville and Syracuse just yet.

1 FSU
2 Clemson

3 Louisville
4 Syracuse

5 Miami
6 Duke
7 NC State
8 Boston College
9 Pitt
10 Virginia Tech
11 Georgia Tech

12 Virgina
13 North Carolina

14 Wake

Agree Joey!