(10-19-2015 12:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 09:56 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  How about Houston and Memphis?

Adds 2 Top 25 teams within the footprint.

Yeah, that makes sense - choose two teams to permanently collect $40 million a year because they happen to be ranked in this week's Top 25 poll?

Total.

What matters is per team.

(10-19-2015 10:48 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Bleacher Report, ha ha. Couldn't find anything from the Dude or MHver?

Writer really exaggerates what was said, but it was based on Bowlsby's response to a question from OU's radio guy.

(10-19-2015 01:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Nobody in the Big XII is paying attention to Bowlsby's statements. He's a figurehead, and has no power or influence on conference decisions.

But by all means, don't let that slow you down.

The only thing you should care about is what's best for West Virginia, as a XII member.

(10-19-2015 12:05 PM)Ghis Wrote:  We can all speculate till we're blue in the face, but when you read all the tea leaves it appears that something is going on behind the scenes, and there is a lot of fire underneath all the smoke.

Beginning to think so.

After Boren's comment, I didn't think anything was happening anytime soon, but that the issue wasn't going away.

After Bowlsby's comment, it sounds like a number of people in the conference think expanding is important.

(10-19-2015 01:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Nobody in the Big XII is paying attention to Bowlsby's statements. He's a figurehead, and has no power or influence on conference decisions.

But by all means, don't let that slow you down.

People pay attention to Boren.

Bowlsby pays attention to those who pay them. He wouldn't be saying this if he didn't have presidents thinking the same thing.

(10-19-2015 01:42 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 01:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 12:51 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Give me championships and if the chance of getting to them is severely hampered because of "independence",we're not really indy anymore anyway.

ND is known for many things, championships and academics are as important to the mission as independence. ND fans are more married to independence then our admin, if things change and our access gets cut we will join.

ND has won 4 football national championships (1966, 1973, 1977 and 1988) in the last 66 years. FOUR. None in the last 27 years. It has only played for one other one since 1988.

It is a once in a blue moon thing.

I'd like to see them win another before I die (I am 58) but in reality the odds are stacked against ND, conference membership or not.

Sure, if an undefeated ND is passed over for a 2 loss conference champ or if it is mandated that only conference champs have a de jure chance, then I agree that the administration will take a hard look at joining.

It's once in a blue moon but I'm not a fan who says our best days are behind us. We have our restrictions but we also recruit really well, we settle for the crap that we have gotten. Our string of coaches(Davihamwies) is like putting ourselves on sanctions,Kelly as much as he blows some games at least has shown it is possible to win here.

If we are passed over with one loss the pressure will begin on the admin.
Side note- I would agree with you if we were actually independent, but what are we fighting for? A mirage really, independence died the minute we signed the deal with the ACC. IMO it's a marketing gimmick at this point.

If it were merely a marketing gimmick, then no non-ND person would give a damn about it one way or another.

They obviously do, since tons of things have been written about it for the last ten years.

That is good enough for me. Pissing other folks off with ND's status is a great thing by me.......

I agree with you. I think that in the future ND can win a national championship in football as an independent. It just has to go undefeated to do so.

Going against the grain and doing it differently than anyone else would make the achievement all the more sweeter for me.

I still say that someone has to go against the tide regarding all this conference realignment and ESPN crap.

I would rather see ND win it all the hard way than the easy way and join the "one size fits all" crowd who want some type of 4x16 uniformity.

(10-19-2015 02:18 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 01:42 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 01:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 12:51 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Give me championships and if the chance of getting to them is severely hampered because of "independence",we're not really indy anymore anyway.

ND is known for many things, championships and academics are as important to the mission as independence. ND fans are more married to independence then our admin, if things change and our access gets cut we will join.

ND has won 4 football national championships (1966, 1973, 1977 and 1988) in the last 66 years. FOUR. None in the last 27 years. It has only played for one other one since 1988.

It is a once in a blue moon thing.

I'd like to see them win another before I die (I am 58) but in reality the odds are stacked against ND, conference membership or not.

Sure, if an undefeated ND is passed over for a 2 loss conference champ or if it is mandated that only conference champs have a de jure chance, then I agree that the administration will take a hard look at joining.

It's once in a blue moon but I'm not a fan who says our best days are behind us. We have our restrictions but we also recruit really well, we settle for the crap that we have gotten. Our string of coaches(Davihamwies) is like putting ourselves on sanctions,Kelly as much as he blows some games at least has shown it is possible to win here.

If we are passed over with one loss the pressure will begin on the admin.
Side note- I would agree with you if we were actually independent, but what are we fighting for? A mirage really, independence died the minute we signed the deal with the ACC. IMO it's a marketing gimmick at this point.

If it were merely a marketing gimmick, then no non-ND person would give a damn about it one way or another.

They obviously do, since tons of things have been written about it for the last ten years.

That is good enough for me. Pissing other folks off with ND's status is a great thing by me.......

I agree with you. I think that in the future ND can win a national championship in football as an independent. It just has to go undefeated to do so.

Going against the grain and doing it differently than anyone else would make the achievement all the more sweeter for me.

I still say that someone has to go against the tide regarding all this conference realignment and ESPN crap.

I would rather see ND win it all the hard way than the easy way and join the "one size fits all" crowd who want some type of 4x16 uniformity.

To each his own... But you know the youngsters(under 35) are way more open to joining a conference then we ever were.

I think that the past mistakes of the Big 12 with respect to Pitt and Louisville will guide future decisions.

Memphis seems like a no brainer. It has maintained a high degree of basketball success in spite of being in less prestigious conferences. Its football program has surpassed Louisville's. Geographically, it is a great bridge to WVU.

I just don't see the Big 12 passing on Memphis.

The question becomes, who's the partner. All of the smoke coming out of Houston tells me that they are in the mix. Versus Cincy, this is a close call. Two urban schools, academically about the same, one in a geographically incredible region for future growth (Houston). The other in a great geographic location to help solidfy the corridor through Tennessee out to West Virginia.

Football wise, Houston has the better prigram right now. Both have great recruiting areas. Basketball advantage goes to Cincy.

It will boil down to the redundancy of adding another Texasschool (including convenient travel benefits) versus adding another WVU/Memphis helper school.

If there is a desire to go to 4, Memphis, Cincy, Houston, BYU would be wonderfully appealing. I doubt the Big 12 tries for Florida with only one of the directional schools.



The question

If the Big 12 is going to expand with 2 AAC teams, I guess we will know in December or January as the AAC has a 16 month notice to give don't they? That'll put the membership in the 2017 - 2018 academic year.

(10-19-2015 02:21 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:18 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 01:42 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 01:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 12:51 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Give me championships and if the chance of getting to them is severely hampered because of "independence",we're not really indy anymore anyway.

ND is known for many things, championships and academics are as important to the mission as independence. ND fans are more married to independence then our admin, if things change and our access gets cut we will join.

ND has won 4 football national championships (1966, 1973, 1977 and 1988) in the last 66 years. FOUR. None in the last 27 years. It has only played for one other one since 1988.

It is a once in a blue moon thing.

I'd like to see them win another before I die (I am 58) but in reality the odds are stacked against ND, conference membership or not.

Sure, if an undefeated ND is passed over for a 2 loss conference champ or if it is mandated that only conference champs have a de jure chance, then I agree that the administration will take a hard look at joining.

It's once in a blue moon but I'm not a fan who says our best days are behind us. We have our restrictions but we also recruit really well, we settle for the crap that we have gotten. Our string of coaches(Davihamwies) is like putting ourselves on sanctions,Kelly as much as he blows some games at least has shown it is possible to win here.

If we are passed over with one loss the pressure will begin on the admin.
Side note- I would agree with you if we were actually independent, but what are we fighting for? A mirage really, independence died the minute we signed the deal with the ACC. IMO it's a marketing gimmick at this point.

If it were merely a marketing gimmick, then no non-ND person would give a damn about it one way or another.

They obviously do, since tons of things have been written about it for the last ten years.

That is good enough for me. Pissing other folks off with ND's status is a great thing by me.......

I agree with you. I think that in the future ND can win a national championship in football as an independent. It just has to go undefeated to do so.

Going against the grain and doing it differently than anyone else would make the achievement all the more sweeter for me.

I still say that someone has to go against the tide regarding all this conference realignment and ESPN crap.

I would rather see ND win it all the hard way than the easy way and join the "one size fits all" crowd who want some type of 4x16 uniformity.

To each his own... But you know the youngsters(under 35) are way more open to joining a conference then we ever were.

Lol, what the hell do they know! :)

(10-19-2015 10:10 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 10:00 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 09:56 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  How about Houston and Memphis?

Adds 2 Top 25 teams within the footprint.

"Two or more"

Houston
Memphis
BYU
Cincinnati

Houston fend off SEC domination in southeast Texas
Memphis great BB and rapidly improved FB heart of SEC territory
BYU we all know what they bring national brand
Cincinatti FB and BB, bridge for WVU

I think the problem is going to be figuring out divisions - Right now, they ALL play Texas and Oklahoma every year, and I assume they'd like to keep it that way. Maybe they should go to 16 so the original Big XII teams can stay together in one division while following the old Big East football footprint for the other division. Permanent cross-division rivals could appease TCU and West Virginia.

West ..................................... East
Texas & Baylor ....................... TCU & Houston
Texas Tech & Oklahoma St ...... Memphis & UCF
Oklahoma & Kansas ................ West Virginia & Connecticut
Kansas St & Iowa St ............... Cincinnati & Temple

Solid football, solid basketball, and plenty of content and television sets to launch a Big XII network.

(10-19-2015 02:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 01:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Nobody in the Big XII is paying attention to Bowlsby's statements. He's a figurehead, and has no power or influence on conference decisions.

But by all means, don't let that slow you down.

The only thing you should care about is what's best for West Virginia, as a XII member.

Currently, the Big XII is best for WVU. But I'm not going to get on this bandwagon, since the current configuration suits best at present. If that changes, I'll worry about it then.

If the Big XII decides to break up, I'll deal with it when it happens. But I'll be damned if I'm going to listen to a bunch of expansionista crap like I had to deal with for 6 years in the Big East. Screw that, and the people on that bandwagon. I've been dealing with that kind of talk for a decade, and I'm sick of it, and anything related to it.

So don't feed me crap and tell me it's ice cream. It isn't.

(10-19-2015 02:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 12:37 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 12:01 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 11:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 11:51 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  The XII has to ask itself a similar question to what Notre Dame has to ask itself:

"is the strong likelihood of being excluded from the CFP playoff, in most seasons, worth it in order to preserve _______ ?"

For Notre Dame, the underlined part is "the tradition of football independence".

For XII, the underlined part is "the model of 10 teams with a 9 game, round robin, conference schedule and no CCG, splitting conference revenues only 10 ways".

I think it is a red herring question regarding ND.

Would an independent 11-1 ND have less of a chance than an 12-1 ACC ND?

I think that the difference is non-existent or negligible, considering that last year FSU had to go undefeated to get a playoff bid.

Besides, how often will such a scenario occur? Not often.

Playoff contention at 12-0 or 11-1 is a once in a blue moon event. Independence, branding and tradition are 24/7/365.

Sure. The answer that you, and I think most ND football fans and football-support alumni, give is just an extremely strong affirmation that you value independence over CFP playoff participation.


In other words, if it could be guaranteed that as a member of any conference of your choosing that you'd make the CFP 4 times in 12 years, versus as an independent only 1 time in 12 years, I think ND takes independence without batting an eye.

ND had to go undefeated to get to the Fiesta Bowl "title game"in 1988 (Pre-BCS).

ND had to go undefeated in 2012 to reach the title game (BCS).

ND would have had to go undefeated this season to make the Final Four. (Playoffs).

(I operate under the theory that the 2 point loss at Clemson ended any shot for ND to make the playoffs this year. I am ok with that).

Same as it ever was, at least for the last 35 years or so.

That is what many ND fans are used to and expect. I think that is a reasonable expectation.

No need to let outside hair pullers advocate an abandonment of 127 years of football independence for a possible minuscule better window at a once in a great while scenario.

My take, anyway.

I guess, it's possible that with 9 conference games that ND's schedule could be easier than its typical independent schedule. Maybe that would lead to more championship opportunities.

So, back into the playoffs and take the easy way out?

(10-19-2015 02:39 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  So don't feed me crap and tell me it's ice cream. It isn't.

Ouch. I hope they didn't try that number on you in the nursing home this week.

(10-19-2015 03:05 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 12:37 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 12:01 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 11:59 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I think it is a red herring question regarding ND.

Would an independent 11-1 ND have less of a chance than an 12-1 ACC ND?

I think that the difference is non-existent or negligible, considering that last year FSU had to go undefeated to get a playoff bid.

Besides, how often will such a scenario occur? Not often.

Playoff contention at 12-0 or 11-1 is a once in a blue moon event. Independence, branding and tradition are 24/7/365.

Sure. The answer that you, and I think most ND football fans and football-support alumni, give is just an extremely strong affirmation that you value independence over CFP playoff participation.


In other words, if it could be guaranteed that as a member of any conference of your choosing that you'd make the CFP 4 times in 12 years, versus as an independent only 1 time in 12 years, I think ND takes independence without batting an eye.

ND had to go undefeated to get to the Fiesta Bowl "title game"in 1988 (Pre-BCS).

ND had to go undefeated in 2012 to reach the title game (BCS).

ND would have had to go undefeated this season to make the Final Four. (Playoffs).

(I operate under the theory that the 2 point loss at Clemson ended any shot for ND to make the playoffs this year. I am ok with that).

Same as it ever was, at least for the last 35 years or so.

That is what many ND fans are used to and expect. I think that is a reasonable expectation.

No need to let outside hair pullers advocate an abandonment of 127 years of football independence for a possible minuscule better window at a once in a great while scenario.

My take, anyway.

I guess, it's possible that with 9 conference games that ND's schedule could be easier than its typical independent schedule. Maybe that would lead to more championship opportunities.

So, back into the playoffs and take the easy way out?

I read your other post, about doing it the hard way. Fair enough! That's a perfectly valid opinion, and you are entitled to it.

I don't have an opinion on if Notre Dame should join a conference. I know they'll never join the B1G, so it doesn't matter too much to me.


I am one of those "4x__ uniformity" types, simply because the CFP has four slots that should then, obviously, go to four conference champions.

Memphis football has surpassed Louisville? Lol, don't get me wrong, I've advocated Memphis being a BigXII member for awhile now...but two good seasons compared to what we've done in Louisville is hardly surpassing Louisville's football program. They're having a better season, I'll give 'em that...but c'mon, don't say stupid ****.

(10-19-2015 03:41 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Memphis football has surpassed Louisville? Lol, don't get me wrong, I've advocated Memphis being a BigXII member for awhile now...but two good seasons compared to what we've done in Louisville is hardly surpassing Louisville's football program. They're having a better season, I'll give 'em that...but c'mon, don't say stupid ****.

Memphis is expanding to 80,000 seats in the off season.

(10-19-2015 02:35 PM)C00G Wrote:  I think the problem is going to be figuring out divisions - Right now, they ALL play Texas and Oklahoma every year, and I assume they'd like to keep it that way. Maybe they should go to 16 so the original Big XII teams can stay together in one division while following the old Big East football footprint for the other division. Permanent cross-division rivals could appease TCU and West Virginia.

West ..................................... East
Texas & Baylor ....................... TCU & Houston
Texas Tech & Oklahoma St ...... Memphis & UCF
Oklahoma & Kansas ................ West Virginia & Connecticut
Kansas St & Iowa St ............... Cincinnati & Temple

Solid football, solid basketball, and plenty of content and television sets to launch a Big XII network.

Iowa St. and Kansas have advocated for expansion so that they DON'T have to play everyone every year. Easier to get bowl eligible.

This could be a nice scheduling lineup, assuming CCG de-regulation so that the two best teams meet for the CCG, rather than division winners:

NORTH: Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St., BYU, Colorado St.
SOUTH: Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St., Houston
EAST: Baylor, TCU, WVU, Cincinnati, Memphis

To have Texas and Oklahoma together with Houston, it gets the Red River rivalry game in DFW each year, and one or the other in the Houston market each year. That's solid for Big 12 marketing and branding purposes.

With 4 intra-division games and 5 cross-over games among 10 teams, everyone in the conference plays each other at least every other year, and everyone gets into Texas annually - with smart scheduling.

Basketball would be tremendous. All 5 newbies are already frequent NCAA at large bid candidates. Throw in some Big 12-challenge type games in St. Louis, Chicago, Las Vegas, and Nashville.

You get a pretty contiguous conference. Kansas and Oklahoma border Colorado which borders Utah. Memphis and Cincinnati provide a nice bridge to WVU. You also get a nice push back against the SEC in East Texas and Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Kentucky and against the B1G in Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania. It builds a nice arrow through the heart of the ACC and into the PAC's eastern flank.

The Big 12 would then have boots on the ground presence in ALL FOUR P5 conference territories. As the conference gels and the newbies develop into Big 12 programs, the conference is positioned to grow in any direction that makes sense, if any. California? Florida? Northeast?

I just have to laugh at the idea of a XII Network ... while keeping Texas in the conference.

Texas is going to throw away the LHN, and freely submit itself to the new XIIN ... just for an equal share of the revenues with, at least, 11 other members?

I doubt it.

(10-19-2015 04:20 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(10-19-2015 02:35 PM)C00G Wrote:  I think the problem is going to be figuring out divisions - Right now, they ALL play Texas and Oklahoma every year, and I assume they'd like to keep it that way. Maybe they should go to 16 so the original Big XII teams can stay together in one division while following the old Big East football footprint for the other division. Permanent cross-division rivals could appease TCU and West Virginia.

West ..................................... East
Texas & Baylor ....................... TCU & Houston
Texas Tech & Oklahoma St ...... Memphis & UCF
Oklahoma & Kansas ................ West Virginia & Connecticut
Kansas St & Iowa St ............... Cincinnati & Temple

Solid football, solid basketball, and plenty of content and television sets to launch a Big XII network.

Iowa St. and Kansas have advocated for expansion so that they DON'T have to play everyone every year. Easier to get bowl eligible.

This could be a nice scheduling lineup, assuming CCG de-regulation so that the two best teams meet for the CCG, rather than division winners:

NORTH: Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St., BYU, Colorado St.
SOUTH: Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St., Houston
EAST: Baylor, TCU, WVU, Cincinnati, Memphis

To have Texas and Oklahoma together with Houston, it gets the Red River rivalry game in DFW each year, and one or the other in the Houston market each year. That's solid for Big 12 marketing and branding purposes.

With 4 intra-division games and 5 cross-over games among 10 teams, everyone in the conference plays each other at least every other year, and everyone gets into Texas annually - with smart scheduling.

Basketball would be tremendous. All 5 newbies are already frequent NCAA at large bid candidates. Throw in some Big 12-challenge type games in St. Louis, Chicago, Las Vegas, and Nashville.

You get a pretty contiguous conference. Kansas and Oklahoma border Colorado which borders Utah. Memphis and Cincinnati provide a nice bridge to WVU. You also get a nice push back against the SEC in East Texas and Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Kentucky and against the B1G in Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania. It builds a nice arrow through the heart of the ACC and into the PAC's eastern flank.

The Big 12 would then have boots on the ground presence in ALL FOUR P5 conference territories. As the conference gels and the newbies develop into Big 12 programs, the conference is positioned to grow in any direction that makes sense, if any. California? Florida? Northeast?

Tourney appearances the last 25 years:

Houston - 3
Colorado State - 4