(01-07-2016 09:37 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 05:35 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 09:40 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  It's a matter of whether to act selfishly or selflessly. While I couldn't care less about what OU and UT want, being at 14 is problematic in my opinion. The SEC can either wait 5-7 to see how the B12 situation is addressed or it can move within the next 2-3 and begin its own inter-conference tourney. While H1's proposal might be not be the most advantageous to the SEC, its not nearly as hard of a sell as the PAC taking TT, ISU, KSU and TCU. Chances are they take their ball and go home at the mere suggestion, more money be damned. It's a 50/50 that the B12 continues to soldier on with an expanded CFP field. I'm fine with that.

I really don't think the PAC is taking bad products there. They are limited by geography and the baseline for their current contract and network allows them to gain value with otherwise lesser properties. I get that those schools wouldn't be their first choice, but the top choices can't make as much money in the PAC so they are kind of stuck.

Conversely, I'm not sure a combo of OSU and WVU would add monetary value to the SEC. I think that is the rub.

As Lenvillecards stated, the increase comes from reducing the slices from 5 to 4. It's not as if the pie is getting much bigger, especially with the fiscal constraints ESPN will have going forward. So if you find the bolded true of the SEC, it would be applicable to the PAC as well. Are they constrained? Yes, but not just geographically. They are also limited CFB passion on the west coast as well. Adding teams from Middle America won't change that and I'm sure Larry Scott and the rest of the PAC presidents are well aware of this. They'd be better off trying to sell their network to FOX.

Fair enough, but I don't think ESPN is going to volunteer more money just because there are fewer Power leagues. The leagues will have to force their hand. I see the best way of doing that as adding more brand power.

(01-07-2016 10:52 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:33 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  [quote='XLance' pid='12867734' dateline='1452173043']

Lance, bring your hoards from the Carolinas and Virginia and we'll get a deal done. It's mutually beneficial. I'll have my people call your people.

Actually I think the ACC has the most to gain from doing this & the most to lose by not doing this. These ads increase the value of the TV contract, gives the ACC a network with an even larger footprint & all of the conferences would profit from an expanded CC format. $ by all are being left on the table, none more so than the ACC.

For the ACC 16th spot I would take Iowa St there if available. If we had to take UCONN as part of some kind of brokerage deal then I would consider trading them out for WV. Iowa St has a passionate fan base that the ACC needs, offer a decent new market & would bolster the ACC western border of ND & Louisville.

Actually, I was referring to the idea that there should be some sort of merger between the SEC and ACC. That is still my favorite outcome in all this even though I know it will never happen.

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Louisville move to the SEC.

I think a 24 team model works although I'm pretty much in that camp by myself.

(01-07-2016 11:23 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 10:52 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:33 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  [quote='XLance' pid='12867734' dateline='1452173043']

Lance, bring your hoards from the Carolinas and Virginia and we'll get a deal done. It's mutually beneficial. I'll have my people call your people.

Actually I think the ACC has the most to gain from doing this & the most to lose by not doing this. These ads increase the value of the TV contract, gives the ACC a network with an even larger footprint & all of the conferences would profit from an expanded CC format. $ by all are being left on the table, none more so than the ACC.

For the ACC 16th spot I would take Iowa St there if available. If we had to take UCONN as part of some kind of brokerage deal then I would consider trading them out for WV. Iowa St has a passionate fan base that the ACC needs, offer a decent new market & would bolster the ACC western border of ND & Louisville.

Actually, I was referring to the idea that there should be some sort of merger between the SEC and ACC. That is still my favorite outcome in all this even though I know it will never happen.

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Louisville move to the SEC.

I think a 24 team model works although I'm pretty much in that camp by myself.

In a P3 scenario I would love it but I prefer a P4. Maybe a network alliance? If this scenario plays out with the SEC getting Oklahoma, Okl St & NC State & the ACC getting ND all in, Kansas, WV plus 1 then that would be a powerful alliance. It would have every major football & basketball brand in the east outside of the B1G & the Longhorns. Not sure though if the $ would make it feasible.

(01-07-2016 11:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 09:37 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 05:35 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 09:40 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  It's a matter of whether to act selfishly or selflessly. While I couldn't care less about what OU and UT want, being at 14 is problematic in my opinion. The SEC can either wait 5-7 to see how the B12 situation is addressed or it can move within the next 2-3 and begin its own inter-conference tourney. While H1's proposal might be not be the most advantageous to the SEC, its not nearly as hard of a sell as the PAC taking TT, ISU, KSU and TCU. Chances are they take their ball and go home at the mere suggestion, more money be damned. It's a 50/50 that the B12 continues to soldier on with an expanded CFP field. I'm fine with that.

I really don't think the PAC is taking bad products there. They are limited by geography and the baseline for their current contract and network allows them to gain value with otherwise lesser properties. I get that those schools wouldn't be their first choice, but the top choices can't make as much money in the PAC so they are kind of stuck.

Conversely, I'm not sure a combo of OSU and WVU would add monetary value to the SEC. I think that is the rub.

As Lenvillecards stated, the increase comes from reducing the slices from 5 to 4. It's not as if the pie is getting much bigger, especially with the fiscal constraints ESPN will have going forward. So if you find the bolded true of the SEC, it would be applicable to the PAC as well. Are they constrained? Yes, but not just geographically. They are also limited CFB passion on the west coast as well. Adding teams from Middle America won't change that and I'm sure Larry Scott and the rest of the PAC presidents are well aware of this. They'd be better off trying to sell their network to FOX.

Fair enough, but I don't think ESPN is going to volunteer more money just because there are fewer Power leagues. The leagues will have to force their hand. I see the best way of doing that as adding more brand power.

The only pie slice that gets bigger is the CFP money is split between 4 conferences instead of 5. But then the conference per school payout is divided between 16 instead of 14. It is more, but no more than maybe 1 million per school.

Outside of that you get paid for content value, and in some cases for significant new markets. Content & Markets which are usually combined in brands is the only way to achieve any kind of significant bump. The rest is pure B.S.

(01-07-2016 09:41 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 10:59 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  No, The Big Ten does not limit themselves and Nebraska proves that. It is funny how most of the time, persons that say the Big Ten is limiting themselves this time around...those persons are not Big Ten persons. Other people are hoping The Big Ten will limit themselves and that is the truth. You are trying too hard to speak for The Big Ten, sorry.

The SEC already has enough strong brands. My perspective is much more akin to the perspective a CEO would have. It's not just about a collection of brands, it is about the interplay between them. Too many big brands and they begin to harm each other, not help each other. I use the word Hierarchy all the time. That is because it matters and is very important. The SEC has Hierarchy problems. It needs more roleplayers. Oklahoma State and West Virginia are perfect roleplayers for the SEC right now and fit what it needs. OSU is a strong brand and has damn near gotten itself into the top 10 Athletic Departments in the country.

The B1G has the same problem. I agree with you that they've found a solution in the East Division with Rutgers and UMD, but the West has the exact same issue IMO.

I am not sure how you can say that The Big Ten had hierarchy issues. What major historic brands are being kept down? What major brands are facing a multi-season assault by programs that historically are much lower on the totem pole? What schools in The Big Ten are having major coaching chaos due to angry fans despite having nothing but solid seasons?

The expectations in the SEC are much different therefore the pressure that comes from "hierarchical problems" is much different.

(01-07-2016 11:09 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 09:37 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 05:35 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 09:40 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  It's a matter of whether to act selfishly or selflessly. While I couldn't care less about what OU and UT want, being at 14 is problematic in my opinion. The SEC can either wait 5-7 to see how the B12 situation is addressed or it can move within the next 2-3 and begin its own inter-conference tourney. While H1's proposal might be not be the most advantageous to the SEC, its not nearly as hard of a sell as the PAC taking TT, ISU, KSU and TCU. Chances are they take their ball and go home at the mere suggestion, more money be damned. It's a 50/50 that the B12 continues to soldier on with an expanded CFP field. I'm fine with that.

I really don't think the PAC is taking bad products there. They are limited by geography and the baseline for their current contract and network allows them to gain value with otherwise lesser properties. I get that those schools wouldn't be their first choice, but the top choices can't make as much money in the PAC so they are kind of stuck.

Conversely, I'm not sure a combo of OSU and WVU would add monetary value to the SEC. I think that is the rub.

As Lenvillecards stated, the increase comes from reducing the slices from 5 to 4. It's not as if the pie is getting much bigger, especially with the fiscal constraints ESPN will have going forward. So if you find the bolded true of the SEC, it would be applicable to the PAC as well. Are they constrained? Yes, but not just geographically. They are also limited CFB passion on the west coast as well. Adding teams from Middle America won't change that and I'm sure Larry Scott and the rest of the PAC presidents are well aware of this. They'd be better off trying to sell their network to FOX.

Fair enough, but I don't think ESPN is going to volunteer more money just because there are fewer Power leagues. The leagues will have to force their hand. I see the best way of doing that as adding more brand power.

It comes down to how many match ups are projected to be televised from the conference. If there is one less major conference than it would be very hard for ESPN to sell a story that they will broadcast the same amount of games from every other major conference.

(01-07-2016 03:38 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 09:41 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 10:59 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  No, The Big Ten does not limit themselves and Nebraska proves that. It is funny how most of the time, persons that say the Big Ten is limiting themselves this time around...those persons are not Big Ten persons. Other people are hoping The Big Ten will limit themselves and that is the truth. You are trying too hard to speak for The Big Ten, sorry.

The SEC already has enough strong brands. My perspective is much more akin to the perspective a CEO would have. It's not just about a collection of brands, it is about the interplay between them. Too many big brands and they begin to harm each other, not help each other. I use the word Hierarchy all the time. That is because it matters and is very important. The SEC has Hierarchy problems. It needs more roleplayers. Oklahoma State and West Virginia are perfect roleplayers for the SEC right now and fit what it needs. OSU is a strong brand and has damn near gotten itself into the top 10 Athletic Departments in the country.

The B1G has the same problem. I agree with you that they've found a solution in the East Division with Rutgers and UMD, but the West has the exact same issue IMO.

I am not sure how you can say that The Big Ten had hierarchy issues. What major historic brands are being kept down? What major brands are facing a multi-season assault by programs that historically are much lower on the totem pole? What schools in The Big Ten are having major coaching chaos due to angry fans despite having nothing but solid seasons?

The expectations in the SEC are much different therefore the pressure that comes from "hierarchical problems" is much different.

It depends upon how far back you want to go. Your presumption is that LSU and UTK have been just a tick below Bama but the Tide have racked up 25 SEC Championships with the Vols and the Bayou Bengals at 13 and 11 respectively. By that standard Wisky (14), Iowa (18) and Minny (11) are are facing the same challenge as tOSU (53) and Michigan (42) have clearly lapped the field, to say nothing about Nebraska.

As for the expectations, you know better than anyone the coaching turnover that has occupied at places like Lincoln, Madison and Ann Arbor. The pressure to win the the B1G is the same as the SEC for some schools.

(01-07-2016 04:03 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 03:38 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 09:41 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 10:59 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  No, The Big Ten does not limit themselves and Nebraska proves that. It is funny how most of the time, persons that say the Big Ten is limiting themselves this time around...those persons are not Big Ten persons. Other people are hoping The Big Ten will limit themselves and that is the truth. You are trying too hard to speak for The Big Ten, sorry.

The SEC already has enough strong brands. My perspective is much more akin to the perspective a CEO would have. It's not just about a collection of brands, it is about the interplay between them. Too many big brands and they begin to harm each other, not help each other. I use the word Hierarchy all the time. That is because it matters and is very important. The SEC has Hierarchy problems. It needs more roleplayers. Oklahoma State and West Virginia are perfect roleplayers for the SEC right now and fit what it needs. OSU is a strong brand and has damn near gotten itself into the top 10 Athletic Departments in the country.

The B1G has the same problem. I agree with you that they've found a solution in the East Division with Rutgers and UMD, but the West has the exact same issue IMO.

I am not sure how you can say that The Big Ten had hierarchy issues. What major historic brands are being kept down? What major brands are facing a multi-season assault by programs that historically are much lower on the totem pole? What schools in The Big Ten are having major coaching chaos due to angry fans despite having nothing but solid seasons?

The expectations in the SEC are much different therefore the pressure that comes from "hierarchical problems" is much different.

It depends upon how far back you want to go. Your presumption is that LSU and UTK have been just a tick below Bama but the Tide have racked up 25 SEC Championships with the Vols and the Bayou Bengals at 13 and 11 respectively. By that standard Wisky (14), Iowa (18) and Minny (11) are are facing the same challenge as tOSU (53) and Michigan (42) have clearly lapped the field, to say nothing about Nebraska.

As for the expectations, you know better than anyone the coaching turnover that has occupied at places like Lincoln, Madison and Ann Arbor. The pressure to win the the B1G is the same as the SEC for some schools.

The amount of BS that happened at Lincoln with Pelini, would have had him removed from his position much sooner had it been an SEC school. The same goes for Hoke at Michigan. The issue at Wisconsin was a coach leaving on his own soon after being hired. That was a personal choice where he didn't feel like he meshed well in Madison. Trust me, I understand how someone could feel that way....

These are not the same issues as we see happen at SEC schools where coaches are on the hot seat so quickly. If anything it is just the opposite in The Big Ten. The seat heats up much more slowly there. For clarity, that isn't me bragging. I was for Ferentz's removal, which isn't happening anytime soon now. I was for Pelini being removed well before he finally was. I was for Hoke being removed well before he actually was.

(01-07-2016 10:52 AM)5thTiger Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:23 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 10:59 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  No, The Big Ten does not limit themselves and Nebraska proves that. It is funny how most of the time, persons that say the Big Ten is limiting themselves this time around...those persons are not Big Ten persons. Other people are hoping The Big Ten will limit themselves and that is the truth. You are trying too hard to speak for The Big Ten, sorry.

The SEC already has enough strong brands. My perspective is much more akin to the perspective a CEO would have. It's not just about a collection of brands, it is about the interplay between them. Too many big brands and they begin to harm each other, not help each other. I use the word Hierarchy all the time. That is because it matters and is very important. The SEC has Hierarchy problems. It needs more roleplayers. Oklahoma State and West Virginia are perfect roleplayers for the SEC right now and fit what it needs. OSU is a strong brand and has damn near gotten itself into the top 10 Athletic Departments in the country.

I'm not talking about AAU status. Clearly that's not a requirement as the B1G wanted Notre Dame for decades. However, the B1G does limit themselves to a certain academic clout or at least that's what I hear every analyst say. Nebraska was a great brand as would be OU and KU, but if I'm wrong then the league should be willing to take a school like West Virginia that would add to the brand power in football, but not bring the academic clout.

As I said earlier, I like OSU, but their potential is heretofore untapped. There's no guarantee it will be tapped. What happens when a mere role player can't play multiple games in TX every year? What happens when Boone Pickens dies? They have certainly risen up in recent years, but they haven't been doing this for 30, 40, or 50 years. The sample space is small. It might be a different conversation if they were the top brand in their market, but they clearly aren't. While WVU would add some pop to some leagues it wouldn't offer much to the SEC. I'm not saying we wouldn't take them, but I think we need a little more value for #15 than OSU. Or we need a little more value for #16 than WVU. For example, Kansas is a better brand than WVU and offers a role playing football squad if there ever was one. Would that not accomplish the same goals you have offered as an SEC interest?

I disagree that the SEC has hierarchy problems. The issues LSU and Tennessee have are cyclical. UT has mostly themselves to blame as they made a string of terrible coaching decisions. LSU has only recently fallen prey to Bama. They won 2 national titles since 2003. That's tied for the 2nd most in the league with Florida and behind only Bama who's had 3 in that span...albeit they are lining up for a 4th. Bama, for example, had a terrible decade between 1997 and the arrival of Saban in 2007. Would it have been accurate to say the SEC didn't have enough role players when the likes of UT and LSU were clearly ahead of Bama? No, I don't think so.

Like I said, money is the name of the game.

AAU is a requirement for everyone BUT Notre Dame. The Nebraska thing had been going on for about 2 decades. No one actually expected them to be kicked out, since it had never happened before. To that end, it is reasonable to expect that the B1G Presidents thought they would still be in the AAU to this day, so they admitted Nebraska. After admitting them, they weren't, and likely won't ever, kick anyone out.

Notre Dame is THE special case. They are the Ultimate Exception to EVERY rule regarding college athletics. So don't use them as an example, unless it is using them for a Texas-ACC deal.

The only way for any school to get into the AAU is for another school to leave or get kicked out.

(01-07-2016 01:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 11:23 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Actually, I was referring to the idea that there should be some sort of merger between the SEC and ACC. That is still my favorite outcome in all this even though I know it will never happen.

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Louisville move to the SEC.

I think a 24 team model works although I'm pretty much in that camp by myself.

In a P3 scenario I would love it but I prefer a P4. Maybe a network alliance? If this scenario plays out with the SEC getting Oklahoma, Okl St & NC State & the ACC getting ND all in, Kansas, WV plus 1 then that would be a powerful alliance. It would have every major football & basketball brand in the east outside of the B1G & the Longhorns. Not sure though if the $ would make it feasible.

If UConn ends up in the ACC and you all get a network then I think there will inevitably be some sort of cooperation between the 2 leagues on content. Pairing the 2 networks together as a package and creating some made for TV events that feature schools from both leagues would probably happen. I think ESPN could do well with that.

(01-07-2016 04:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 01:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 11:23 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Actually, I was referring to the idea that there should be some sort of merger between the SEC and ACC. That is still my favorite outcome in all this even though I know it will never happen.

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Louisville move to the SEC.

I think a 24 team model works although I'm pretty much in that camp by myself.

In a P3 scenario I would love it but I prefer a P4. Maybe a network alliance? If this scenario plays out with the SEC getting Oklahoma, Okl St & NC State & the ACC getting ND all in, Kansas, WV plus 1 then that would be a powerful alliance. It would have every major football & basketball brand in the east outside of the B1G & the Longhorns. Not sure though if the $ would make it feasible.

If UConn ends up in the ACC and you all get a network then I think there will inevitably be some sort of cooperation between the 2 leagues on content. Pairing the 2 networks together as a package and creating some made for TV events that feature schools from both leagues would probably happen. I think ESPN could do well with that.

Believe me Lenville you would not be happy with a P3.

PAC:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

Arizona, Arizona State, California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal

Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Utah

SEC:

Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt

Florida State, Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M


Big 10:

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Penn State, Virginia

Notre Dame, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska


Pittsburgh, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia and Boston College could all either slip into the spots I have for Baylor and Pitt. But it would be a coin flip really.

(01-07-2016 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 04:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 01:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 11:23 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Actually, I was referring to the idea that there should be some sort of merger between the SEC and ACC. That is still my favorite outcome in all this even though I know it will never happen.

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Louisville move to the SEC.

I think a 24 team model works although I'm pretty much in that camp by myself.

In a P3 scenario I would love it but I prefer a P4. Maybe a network alliance? If this scenario plays out with the SEC getting Oklahoma, Okl St & NC State & the ACC getting ND all in, Kansas, WV plus 1 then that would be a powerful alliance. It would have every major football & basketball brand in the east outside of the B1G & the Longhorns. Not sure though if the $ would make it feasible.

If UConn ends up in the ACC and you all get a network then I think there will inevitably be some sort of cooperation between the 2 leagues on content. Pairing the 2 networks together as a package and creating some made for TV events that feature schools from both leagues would probably happen. I think ESPN could do well with that.

Believe me Lenville you would not be happy with a P3.

PAC:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

Arizona, Arizona State, California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal

Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Utah

SEC:

Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt

Florida State, Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M


Big 10:

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Penn State, Virginia

Notre Dame, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska


Pittsburgh, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia and Boston College could all either slip into the spots I have for Baylor and Pitt. But it would be a coin flip really.

JR I don't like the P3 idea but Tide had Louisville going to the SEC as part of a merger. I assumed that a P3 would be happening at that point. In that scenario I could find myself loving that conference. But in general I am against a P3.

But FWIW, if a P3 would use an athletic budget as a cutoff, Louisville only trails FSU & ND in the ACC.

(01-07-2016 09:41 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 04:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 01:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 11:23 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Actually, I was referring to the idea that there should be some sort of merger between the SEC and ACC. That is still my favorite outcome in all this even though I know it will never happen.

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Louisville move to the SEC.

I think a 24 team model works although I'm pretty much in that camp by myself.

In a P3 scenario I would love it but I prefer a P4. Maybe a network alliance? If this scenario plays out with the SEC getting Oklahoma, Okl St & NC State & the ACC getting ND all in, Kansas, WV plus 1 then that would be a powerful alliance. It would have every major football & basketball brand in the east outside of the B1G & the Longhorns. Not sure though if the $ would make it feasible.

If UConn ends up in the ACC and you all get a network then I think there will inevitably be some sort of cooperation between the 2 leagues on content. Pairing the 2 networks together as a package and creating some made for TV events that feature schools from both leagues would probably happen. I think ESPN could do well with that.

Believe me Lenville you would not be happy with a P3.

PAC:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

Arizona, Arizona State, California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal

Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Utah

SEC:

Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt

Florida State, Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M


Big 10:

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Penn State, Virginia

Notre Dame, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska


Pittsburgh, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia and Boston College could all either slip into the spots I have for Baylor and Pitt. But it would be a coin flip really.

JR I don't like the P3 idea but Tide had Louisville going to the SEC as part of a merger. I assumed that a P3 would be happening at that point. In that scenario I could find myself loving that conference. But in general I am against a P3.

But FWIW, if a P3 would use an athletic budget as a cutoff, Louisville only trails FSU & ND in the ACC.

I think that would be a point of serious consideration for the SEC. In the reasoning I laid out the two eastern divisions of the SEC each have a Florida school for recruiting purposes. When it came to the two more westerly divisions I debated whether Baylor, who has a decent athletic budget or Louisville would get that 20th slot. The only reason I gave it to Baylor was because that way both of the Westerly divisions would have a Texas school to help with recruiting. Louisville would make a strong candidate if the Big 10 opted for Georgia Tech instead of Pitt.

(01-07-2016 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 04:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 01:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 11:23 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Actually, I was referring to the idea that there should be some sort of merger between the SEC and ACC. That is still my favorite outcome in all this even though I know it will never happen.

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Louisville move to the SEC.

I think a 24 team model works although I'm pretty much in that camp by myself.

In a P3 scenario I would love it but I prefer a P4. Maybe a network alliance? If this scenario plays out with the SEC getting Oklahoma, Okl St & NC State & the ACC getting ND all in, Kansas, WV plus 1 then that would be a powerful alliance. It would have every major football & basketball brand in the east outside of the B1G & the Longhorns. Not sure though if the $ would make it feasible.

If UConn ends up in the ACC and you all get a network then I think there will inevitably be some sort of cooperation between the 2 leagues on content. Pairing the 2 networks together as a package and creating some made for TV events that feature schools from both leagues would probably happen. I think ESPN could do well with that.

Believe me Lenville you would not be happy with a P3.

PAC:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

Arizona, Arizona State, California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal

Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Utah

SEC:

Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt

Florida State, Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M


Big 10:

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Penn State, Virginia

Notre Dame, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska


Pittsburgh, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia and Boston College could all either slip into the spots I have for Baylor and Pitt. But it would be a coin flip really.

P3 just won't happen. What we need is a balanced P4, like:

PAC
Wash, Wash State, Oregon, Oregon State
Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State

B1G
Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State
Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern
Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland

ACC
Florida State, Clemson, Wake Forest, South Carolina
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
GT, Carolina, Dook, UVa
Miami, Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State

SEC
Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Texas
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
Vanderbilt, Miss. State, Alabama, Tennessee
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky

Like it or not, that is balanced, geographically compact, and as workable a P4 as possible.

(01-10-2016 05:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 04:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 01:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 11:23 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Actually, I was referring to the idea that there should be some sort of merger between the SEC and ACC. That is still my favorite outcome in all this even though I know it will never happen.

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Louisville move to the SEC.

I think a 24 team model works although I'm pretty much in that camp by myself.

In a P3 scenario I would love it but I prefer a P4. Maybe a network alliance? If this scenario plays out with the SEC getting Oklahoma, Okl St & NC State & the ACC getting ND all in, Kansas, WV plus 1 then that would be a powerful alliance. It would have every major football & basketball brand in the east outside of the B1G & the Longhorns. Not sure though if the $ would make it feasible.

If UConn ends up in the ACC and you all get a network then I think there will inevitably be some sort of cooperation between the 2 leagues on content. Pairing the 2 networks together as a package and creating some made for TV events that feature schools from both leagues would probably happen. I think ESPN could do well with that.

Believe me Lenville you would not be happy with a P3.

PAC:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

Arizona, Arizona State, California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal

Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Utah

SEC:

Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt

Florida State, Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M


Big 10:

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Penn State, Virginia

Notre Dame, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska


Pittsburgh, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia and Boston College could all either slip into the spots I have for Baylor and Pitt. But it would be a coin flip really.

P3 just won't happen. What we need is a balanced P4, like:

PAC
Wash, Wash State, Oregon, Oregon State
Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State

B1G
Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State
Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern
Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland

ACC
Florida State, Clemson, Wake Forest, South Carolina
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
GT, Carolina, Dook, UVa
Miami, Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State

SEC
Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Texas
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
Vanderbilt, Miss. State, Alabama, Tennessee
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky

Like it or not, that is balanced, geographically compact, and as workable a P4 as possible.

Culturally speaking that would be tight geographically and there would be a high degree of commonality in the preferred sports and their culture.

The problems would be that most Aggies would suffer cerebral hemorrhage and South Carolina would flat out refuse.

You guys can take Notre Dame full time or tell them to take a hike. West Virginia is all in and we'll trade you South Carolina for Florida State. Missouri can go to the Big 10 if they want. And then we could consider the all Texas division.

(01-10-2016 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 05:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 04:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 01:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  In a P3 scenario I would love it but I prefer a P4. Maybe a network alliance? If this scenario plays out with the SEC getting Oklahoma, Okl St & NC State & the ACC getting ND all in, Kansas, WV plus 1 then that would be a powerful alliance. It would have every major football & basketball brand in the east outside of the B1G & the Longhorns. Not sure though if the $ would make it feasible.

If UConn ends up in the ACC and you all get a network then I think there will inevitably be some sort of cooperation between the 2 leagues on content. Pairing the 2 networks together as a package and creating some made for TV events that feature schools from both leagues would probably happen. I think ESPN could do well with that.

Believe me Lenville you would not be happy with a P3.

PAC:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

Arizona, Arizona State, California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal

Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Utah

SEC:

Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt

Florida State, Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M


Big 10:

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Penn State, Virginia

Notre Dame, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska


Pittsburgh, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia and Boston College could all either slip into the spots I have for Baylor and Pitt. But it would be a coin flip really.

P3 just won't happen. What we need is a balanced P4, like:

PAC
Wash, Wash State, Oregon, Oregon State
Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State

B1G
Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State
Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern
Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland

ACC
Florida State, Clemson, Wake Forest, South Carolina
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
GT, Carolina, Dook, UVa
Miami, Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State

SEC
Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Texas
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
Vanderbilt, Miss. State, Alabama, Tennessee
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky

Like it or not, that is balanced, geographically compact, and as workable a P4 as possible.

Culturally speaking that would be tight geographically and there would be a high degree of commonality in the preferred sports and their culture.

The problems would be that most Aggies would suffer cerebral hemorrhage and South Carolina would flat out refuse.

You guys can take Notre Dame full time or tell them to take a hike. West Virginia is all in and we'll trade you South Carolina for Florida State. Missouri can go to the Big 10 if they want. And then we could consider the all Texas division.

It was South Carolina that approached the ACC.

(01-10-2016 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 05:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 04:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 01:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  In a P3 scenario I would love it but I prefer a P4. Maybe a network alliance? If this scenario plays out with the SEC getting Oklahoma, Okl St & NC State & the ACC getting ND all in, Kansas, WV plus 1 then that would be a powerful alliance. It would have every major football & basketball brand in the east outside of the B1G & the Longhorns. Not sure though if the $ would make it feasible.

If UConn ends up in the ACC and you all get a network then I think there will inevitably be some sort of cooperation between the 2 leagues on content. Pairing the 2 networks together as a package and creating some made for TV events that feature schools from both leagues would probably happen. I think ESPN could do well with that.

Believe me Lenville you would not be happy with a P3.

PAC:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

Arizona, Arizona State, California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal

Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Utah

SEC:

Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt

Florida State, Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M


Big 10:

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Penn State, Virginia

Notre Dame, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska


Pittsburgh, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia and Boston College could all either slip into the spots I have for Baylor and Pitt. But it would be a coin flip really.

P3 just won't happen. What we need is a balanced P4, like:

PAC
Wash, Wash State, Oregon, Oregon State
Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State

B1G
Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State
Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern
Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland

ACC
Florida State, Clemson, Wake Forest, South Carolina
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
GT, Carolina, Dook, UVa
Miami, Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State

SEC
Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Texas
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
Vanderbilt, Miss. State, Alabama, Tennessee
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky

Like it or not, that is balanced, geographically compact, and as workable a P4 as possible.

Culturally speaking that would be tight geographically and there would be a high degree of commonality in the preferred sports and their culture.

The problems would be that most Aggies would suffer cerebral hemorrhage and South Carolina would flat out refuse.

You guys can take Notre Dame full time or tell them to take a hike. West Virginia is all in and we'll trade you South Carolina for Florida State. Missouri can go to the Big 10 if they want. And then we could consider the all Texas division.

BTW if you don't want the all Texas Division, you could have: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Kansas State. We could send Kansas, Texas, TCU and Texas Tech out west.....either way works well.

(01-10-2016 09:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 05:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 04:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  If UConn ends up in the ACC and you all get a network then I think there will inevitably be some sort of cooperation between the 2 leagues on content. Pairing the 2 networks together as a package and creating some made for TV events that feature schools from both leagues would probably happen. I think ESPN could do well with that.

Believe me Lenville you would not be happy with a P3.

PAC:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

Arizona, Arizona State, California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal

Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Utah

SEC:

Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt

Florida State, Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M


Big 10:

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Penn State, Virginia

Notre Dame, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska


Pittsburgh, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia and Boston College could all either slip into the spots I have for Baylor and Pitt. But it would be a coin flip really.

P3 just won't happen. What we need is a balanced P4, like:

PAC
Wash, Wash State, Oregon, Oregon State
Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State

B1G
Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State
Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern
Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland

ACC
Florida State, Clemson, Wake Forest, South Carolina
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
GT, Carolina, Dook, UVa
Miami, Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State

SEC
Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Texas
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
Vanderbilt, Miss. State, Alabama, Tennessee
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky

Like it or not, that is balanced, geographically compact, and as workable a P4 as possible.

Culturally speaking that would be tight geographically and there would be a high degree of commonality in the preferred sports and their culture.

The problems would be that most Aggies would suffer cerebral hemorrhage and South Carolina would flat out refuse.

You guys can take Notre Dame full time or tell them to take a hike. West Virginia is all in and we'll trade you South Carolina for Florida State. Missouri can go to the Big 10 if they want. And then we could consider the all Texas division.

BTW if you don't want the all Texas Division, you could have: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Kansas State. We could send Kansas, Texas, TCU and Texas Tech out west.....either way works well.

I actually like that better, but I may be one of the few.

(01-10-2016 10:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 09:04 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 05:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Believe me Lenville you would not be happy with a P3.

PAC:

Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

Arizona, Arizona State, California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal

Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U., Utah

SEC:

Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt

Florida State, Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia Tech, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M


Big 10:

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Penn State, Virginia

Notre Dame, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska


Pittsburgh, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia and Boston College could all either slip into the spots I have for Baylor and Pitt. But it would be a coin flip really.

P3 just won't happen. What we need is a balanced P4, like:

PAC
Wash, Wash State, Oregon, Oregon State
Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State

B1G
Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State
Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern
Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland

ACC
Florida State, Clemson, Wake Forest, South Carolina
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
GT, Carolina, Dook, UVa
Miami, Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State

SEC
Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Texas
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
Vanderbilt, Miss. State, Alabama, Tennessee
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky

Like it or not, that is balanced, geographically compact, and as workable a P4 as possible.

Culturally speaking that would be tight geographically and there would be a high degree of commonality in the preferred sports and their culture.

The problems would be that most Aggies would suffer cerebral hemorrhage and South Carolina would flat out refuse.

You guys can take Notre Dame full time or tell them to take a hike. West Virginia is all in and we'll trade you South Carolina for Florida State. Missouri can go to the Big 10 if they want. And then we could consider the all Texas division.

BTW if you don't want the all Texas Division, you could have: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Kansas State. We could send Kansas, Texas, TCU and Texas Tech out west.....either way works well.

I actually like that better, but I may be one of the few.

There are a lot of reasons to like that version better.
It keeps Texas and Kansas together (Dodds wanted to be with Kansas) in a more basketball centric league.
It keeps Oklahoma and Oklahoma State together to eliminate scheduling problems.
It gives the SEC the most consistent/best football product in the Big 12, a second team in Texas and extends the SEC reach.