(01-15-2016 12:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 12:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 12:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 11:55 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 09:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Because most AAC schools see themselves as possible P5 expansion targets, and instructed their rep to vote that way?

Only a few of the AAC schools are P5 expansion targets. Tulsa, ECU, SMU, for example are not.

So the AAC rep should be doing whatever is in the best interest of the conference, which is obviously to vote in whichever way most likely to prevent XII expansion.

But they didn't. So it doesn't make sense to me.


Are you implying that UConn, Cincy, Houston, Memphis AD's/prez's teamed up to pay the rep off to vote the other way?

I could see a vote where it was 6-5 for voting that way. UConn, Cincy, Houston, Memphis, UCF, and USF voting together. Majority would rule in that case(note- this is assuming Navy doesn't have a full vote).

The AAC vote was cast by UConn's AD.

right. my point is that the conference could have voted against this proposal pretty easily.

Could be. There's an old saying that every senator looks in the mirror and sees a president... maybe every AAC AD looks in the mirror and sees a Big 12 AD.

If the 9 western schools of the Big 12 can't be seperated? Why not go to 18 by inviting 8 schools to be in a division with West Virginia?

West:
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Baylor
TCU
Texas Tech
Texas

Big 12 East:
West Virginia
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
East Carolina
UConn
Northern Illinois/Old Dominion/Western Kentucky which ones will work. Maybe Temple in the future, or Navy?

(01-16-2016 02:30 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If the 9 western schools of the Big 12 can't be seperated? Why not go to 18 by inviting 8 schools to be in a division with West Virginia?

West:
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Baylor
TCU
Texas Tech
Texas

Big 12 East:
West Virginia
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
East Carolina
UConn
Northern Illinois/Old Dominion/Western Kentucky which ones will work. Maybe Temple in the future, or Navy?

This fantasy will never happen here on planet Earth.

But, assuming a rip, warp or tear in space/time occurred and we were in some bizarre alternate universe, which TV network would pay for this expansion and, if none, how much would the existing Big 12 schools lose per school in TV money share?

David, the reality of life here in this timeline is that the P5 want to separate from the rest. The P5 do not want to let in or elevate a bunch of other schools as it will dilute their existing money grab from the television networks.

You can come up with 200 different scenarios wherein South Central Louisiana State University obtains a P5 conference invitation, but none of them have even a remote chance of taking place in reality.

I can understand the AAC voting for something favoring the B12, whether that conference decides to stay at ten or grow. And it's more than just diplomacy between select schools. Maybe, if you're the AAC, you lose a school or two and don't feel like just going right back into CUSA if better options (BYU or MWC members) aren't available.

I look at the arrangement with Navy, and I see every reason to vote for something favorable toward the B12. Navy doesn't need the AAC, but the AAC needs Navy for the CCG. Not anymore.

My question is: what does this do for those programs looking to move up from FCS? JMU, Liberty, Stony, MoSU, and EKU? What's UMass to do?

(01-16-2016 08:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 02:30 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If the 9 western schools of the Big 12 can't be seperated? Why not go to 18 by inviting 8 schools to be in a division with West Virginia?

West:
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Baylor
TCU
Texas Tech
Texas

Big 12 East:
West Virginia
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
East Carolina
UConn
Northern Illinois/Old Dominion/Western Kentucky which ones will work. Maybe Temple in the future, or Navy?

This fantasy will never happen here on planet Earth.

But, assuming a rip, warp or tear in space/time occurred and we were in some bizarre alternate universe, which TV network would pay for this expansion and, if none, how much would the existing Big 12 schools lose per school in TV money share?

David, the reality of life here in this timeline is that the P5 want to separate from the rest. The P5 do not want to let in or elevate a bunch of other schools as it will dilute their existing money grab from the television networks.

You can come up with 200 different scenarios wherein South Central Louisiana State University obtains a P5 conference invitation, but none of them have even a remote chance of taking place in reality.

That is the problem. It is greed that is killing college sports. With all the lawsuits, the brain injury issues, COAs and so forth? You got to wonder why they want to save money by adding G5 and FCS schools to help cut the cost of travel, and have some bus ride games a few times a year? Travel, lodging and feeding all these players do cost a lot of money. Even for a P5 school.

(01-16-2016 11:44 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I can understand the AAC voting for something favoring the B12, whether that conference decides to stay at ten or grow. And it's more than just diplomacy between select schools. Maybe, if you're the AAC, you lose a school or two and don't feel like just going right back into CUSA if better options (BYU or MWC members) aren't available.

I look at the arrangement with Navy, and I see every reason to vote for something favorable toward the B12. Navy doesn't need the AAC, but the AAC needs Navy for the CCG. Not anymore.

My question is: what does this do for those programs looking to move up from FCS? JMU, Liberty, Stony, MoSU, and EKU? What's UMass to do?

I've read on this board that Liberty is planning to sue the NCAA for not allowing FCS teams to move up without an invitation from an FBS conference.

But thus far, it seems to just be message board talk.

Seems like P5 expansion talk around here focuses almost exclusively on G5 to P5 transitions. But the recent expansion record shows that Power conferences have little interest in this type of expansion. Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

(01-18-2016 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like P5 expansion talk around here focuses almost exclusively on G5 to P5 transitions. But the recent expansion record shows that Power conferences have little interest in this type of expansion. Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

That is completely wrong. There are only a few that are there that can add value, but the P5 schools are just too greedy, and very discriminate towards schools like East Carolina, UCF, Boise State, BYU, Houston, Cincinnati and so forth who can improve.

(01-18-2016 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

You left out TCU (although I guess that might be excluded in your timeframe depending on accepted date or join date). You could say Louisville as well, since at the time they were added, their then conference was on the way to being downgraded to non-BCS, and they were only in a power conference since 2005. I left out Rutgers since they were an initial BCS team.

Even still, 3 out of 65 is a small number.

(01-18-2016 01:09 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like P5 expansion talk around here focuses almost exclusively on G5 to P5 transitions. But the recent expansion record shows that Power conferences have little interest in this type of expansion. Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

That is completely wrong. There are only a few that are there that can add value, but the P5 schools are just too greedy, and very discriminate towards schools like East Carolina, UCF, Boise State, BYU, Houston, Cincinnati and so forth who can improve.

Is it or is it not a fact that 12 of the last 13 teams that have joined a Power conference are teams that already were Power conference members? Yes it is. So I am completely right, not wrong.

And the P5 are no more greedy than anyone else. Everyone - conferences and schools- are just looking out for themselves.

(01-18-2016 02:58 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

You left out TCU (although I guess that might be excluded in your timeframe depending on accepted date or join date).

Yes, I forgot that TCU was elevated from non-AQ to AQ when they accepted a Big East invite. Which they then never fulfilled.

(01-18-2016 06:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 02:58 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

You left out TCU (although I guess that might be excluded in your timeframe depending on accepted date or join date).

Yes, I forgot that TCU was elevated from non-AQ to AQ when they accepted a Big East invite. Which they then never fulfilled.

TCU was demoted from a power conference, but then rejoin.

(01-18-2016 06:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 02:58 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

You left out TCU (although I guess that might be excluded in your timeframe depending on accepted date or join date).

Yes, I forgot that TCU was elevated from non-AQ to AQ when they accepted a Big East invite. Which they then never fulfilled.

Who are the 13/14?

PAC: Utah (non-AQ), Colorado
B1G: Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers (AQ)
SEC: TA&M, Missouri
ACC: Pitt (AQ), Syracuse (AQ), Louisville (AQ)
XII: TCU (AQ?), WVU (AQ)

Who did I miss, or are you counting Notre Dame too?

I do think there are G5 schools out there capable of adding what TCU added to the XII or Utah added to the PAC.

(01-18-2016 06:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 01:09 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like P5 expansion talk around here focuses almost exclusively on G5 to P5 transitions. But the recent expansion record shows that Power conferences have little interest in this type of expansion. Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

That is completely wrong. There are only a few that are there that can add value, but the P5 schools are just too greedy, and very discriminate towards schools like East Carolina, UCF, Boise State, BYU, Houston, Cincinnati and so forth who can improve.

Is it or is it not a fact that 12 of the last 13 teams that have joined a Power conference are teams that already were Power conference members? Yes it is. So I am completely right, not wrong.

And the P5 are no more greedy than anyone else. Everyone - conferences and schools- are just looking out for themselves.

It's ambiguous because the Big East was a BCS AQ conference but the AAC is not a P5 conferecence. So do you count schools like UCF who still joined the AAC in its last year as a BCS AQ

Since 2010-2014 was a transition time. I Believe the rule should be if they were in a BCS AQ in 2010 and in a P5 in 2014, then they don't count as a G5 to P5 expansion.

So Utah and TCU count as G5 to P5, but Louisville, Rutgers, Notre Dame do not count as originally G5. They count as P5(6) to P5 expansion.

AND UCF, Houston, SMU, etc. were just G5 to G5 expansion.

(01-20-2016 02:11 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 06:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 02:58 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

You left out TCU (although I guess that might be excluded in your timeframe depending on accepted date or join date).

Yes, I forgot that TCU was elevated from non-AQ to AQ when they accepted a Big East invite. Which they then never fulfilled.

Who are the 13/14?

Nope, I miscounted.

(01-20-2016 02:34 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 06:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 01:09 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like P5 expansion talk around here focuses almost exclusively on G5 to P5 transitions. But the recent expansion record shows that Power conferences have little interest in this type of expansion. Since 2010, thirteen members have been added to current P5 leagues. Of that number, only one team, Utah was not a member of a Power/AQ conference at the time that it joined.

No P5 has any appetite for reaching down into the G5 to add a team. G5 schools don't provide the value-added to justify the move.

That is completely wrong. There are only a few that are there that can add value, but the P5 schools are just too greedy, and very discriminate towards schools like East Carolina, UCF, Boise State, BYU, Houston, Cincinnati and so forth who can improve.

Is it or is it not a fact that 12 of the last 13 teams that have joined a Power conference are teams that already were Power conference members? Yes it is. So I am completely right, not wrong.

And the P5 are no more greedy than anyone else. Everyone - conferences and schools- are just looking out for themselves.

It's ambiguous because the Big East was a BCS AQ conference but the AAC is not a P5 conferecence. So do you count schools like UCF who still joined the AAC in its last year as a BCS AQ

Since 2010-2014 was a transition time. I Believe the rule should be if they were in a BCS AQ in 2010 and in a P5 in 2014, then they don't count as a G5 to P5 expansion.

So Utah and TCU count as G5 to P5...

IMO, TCU should count twice, as non-AQ to AQ when they joined the Big East, but as AQ to AQ (Power to Power) when they joined the Big 12.

We also had three demotions during that time: Cincy, USF, and UConn went from Power status to G5 status. That means that there were about as many schools that went from Power to non-Power as went from non-Power to Power during the 2010-2013 realignment.

To me, that suggests that further non-power to power movement is very unlikely, especially with the bigger CFP dollars. You really need to provide lots of value-added to justify slicing that huge pie more ways.