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So, what will ACC do now?
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TIGER-PAUL Offline
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Post: #41
RE: So, what will ACC do now?
Agree, but some teams have multiple recruiting classes that never play FSU or Clem or whoever.
01-16-2016 08:01 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: So, what will ACC do now?
(01-16-2016 08:01 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  Agree, but some teams have multiple recruiting classes that never play FSU or Clem or whoever.

It is the consequence of having such a large conference. To me, if 2 teams really want to play each other, then set up a home/home to count as non conference...like UNC and Wake did.
01-16-2016 08:06 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #43
So, what will ACC do now?
Keep divisions & permanent rivals as is. For the 8th game give everyone 2 teams that they see 2 out of 4 years. The third, fourth, seventh & eighth year rotates with the 4 remaining teams.

Examples:
FSU- Miami, GT & VT
Clemson- GT, NC & Miami
Louisville- Virginia, VT & Pitt
NC St- NC, Virginia & Duke
Syr- Pitt, Duke & NC
BC- VT, Miami & Pittsburgh
WF- Duke, Virginia & GT

Miami- FSU, Clemson & BC
GT- Clemson, FSU & WF
VT- BC, FSU & Louisville
NC- NC St, Clemson & Syracuse
Duke- WF, Syracuse & NC State
Virginia- UL, NC St & WF
Pitt- Syr, Louisville & BC

So FSU would play:
1) Miami & GT
2) Miami & VT
3) Miami & NC
4) Miami & Duke
5) Miami & GT
6) Miami & VT
7) Miami & Virginia
8) Miami & Pittsburgh
Then repeat.

Not much better than what we have now but you can play the teams that you want to play a little more frequently.
01-16-2016 09:17 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #44
So, what will ACC do now?
(01-16-2016 08:06 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(01-16-2016 08:01 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  Agree, but some teams have multiple recruiting classes that never play FSU or Clem or whoever.

It is the consequence of having such a large conference. To me, if 2 teams really want to play each other, then set up a home/home to count as non conference...like UNC and Wake did.

Not as easy when you have OOC rivalry games.
01-16-2016 09:19 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: So, what will ACC do now?
(01-16-2016 09:19 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(01-16-2016 08:06 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(01-16-2016 08:01 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  Agree, but some teams have multiple recruiting classes that never play FSU or Clem or whoever.

It is the consequence of having such a large conference. To me, if 2 teams really want to play each other, then set up a home/home to count as non conference...like UNC and Wake did.

Not as easy when you have OOC rivalry games.

Everybody doesn't have to do it. It leaves open the flexibility for teams that have other rivals they don't get to play very often.
01-16-2016 09:23 PM
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Dasville Offline
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RE: So, what will ACC do now?
LP4, please resolve the Yow issue regarding your statements if you want to.
01-16-2016 09:45 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: So, what will ACC do now?
(01-16-2016 09:45 PM)Dasville Wrote:  LP4, please resolve the Yow issue regarding your statements if you want to.

? Huh

For any school stuck in a division with at least two perennial powers, or with a steady stream of top 10 talent, you don't have much of a chance to move up and there are several reasons:

1. The conference controls your schedule. When FSU was building their program, they played a lot of high profile games but they had control of their own schedule - they didn't get 8 games in a row without a break and play their toughest conference opponents back, to back, to back, to back. That matters where your talent level is less than your opponents.

2. You are naturally going to lose any head to head recruiting battle with those powers. If you are located in the deep south that can be overcome by an overwhelming amount of talent in your state. That's a problem north of North Carolina/Va line. As you know there are 5 major programs in NC, and 2 in Va, in Georgia, 1 in Tennessee, and 2 in SC. That's 10 programs fishing in the same fishin' hole.

3. To win the Atlantic, you will have to beat Clemson AND FSU in the same year and then not stumble at WF. Coaching helps, but that takes talent for the foreseeable future. FSU slipped for half a decade when BB was allowed to stay too long. Clemson slipped for twenty years as they fought over a direction to go following Ford's ouster.

4. The distance in the Coastal between the best two teams and the rest of the division is impossible to see. Who has the better program? right now, Miami, UNC, Duke, VT, Pitt, GT? The only sure dog in the division is Virginia and they have shown signs of life as when they beat Louisville last year. In the Atlantic the drop off after Clemson and FSU is huge. Then comes Louisville and NC State, then comes Syracuse, BC, and Wake. This is why the ACC title game is always a worry every year, will the Coastal team be a stinker - they are a stinker about every third year, while the Atlantic team is not.

5. One of the real problems with the ACC is the geographic disparity in football - greater than in any other P-5. Only an east/west split bridges that problem - something akin to a zipper, but that doesn't change the fact that neither FSU or Clemson want to play anyone north of Virginia.

Das-let me know about how you feel about the Atlantic in five more years after Clemson and FSU lay about 8 losses on you. It might make you pine for the old Big East. 03-wink
01-17-2016 10:16 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #48
So, what will ACC do now?
(01-17-2016 10:16 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(01-16-2016 09:45 PM)Dasville Wrote:  LP4, please resolve the Yow issue regarding your statements if you want to.

? Huh

For any school stuck in a division with at least two perennial powers, or with a steady stream of top 10 talent, you don't have much of a chance to move up and there are several reasons:

1. The conference controls your schedule. When FSU was building their program, they played a lot of high profile games but they had control of their own schedule - they didn't get 8 games in a row without a break and play their toughest conference opponents back, to back, to back, to back. That matters where your talent level is less than your opponents.

2. You are naturally going to lose any head to head recruiting battle with those powers. If you are located in the deep south that can be overcome by an overwhelming amount of talent in your state. That's a problem north of North Carolina/Va line. As you know there are 5 major programs in NC, and 2 in Va, in Georgia, 1 in Tennessee, and 2 in SC. That's 10 programs fishing in the same fishin' hole.

3. To win the Atlantic, you will have to beat Clemson AND FSU in the same year and then not stumble at WF. Coaching helps, but that takes talent for the foreseeable future. FSU slipped for half a decade when BB was allowed to stay too long. Clemson slipped for twenty years as they fought over a direction to go following Ford's ouster.

4. The distance in the Coastal between the best two teams and the rest of the division is impossible to see. Who has the better program? right now, Miami, UNC, Duke, VT, Pitt, GT? The only sure dog in the division is Virginia and they have shown signs of life as when they beat Louisville last year. In the Atlantic the drop off after Clemson and FSU is huge. Then comes Louisville and NC State, then comes Syracuse, BC, and Wake. This is why the ACC title game is always a worry every year, will the Coastal team be a stinker - they are a stinker about every third year, while the Atlantic team is not.

5. One of the real problems with the ACC is the geographic disparity in football - greater than in any other P-5. Only an east/west split bridges that problem - something akin to a zipper, but that doesn't change the fact that neither FSU or Clemson want to play anyone north of Virginia.

Das-let me know about how you feel about the Atlantic in five more years after Clemson and FSU lay about 8 losses on you. It might make you pine for the old Big East. 03-wink

We'll lose a majority of the recruiting battles with FSU & Clemson but we will win some also. We occasionally beat out Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia & others as well. I can give you 1 example, GG Robinson dad played at Auburn & has a statue & he chose Louisville over Auburn.

2 years ago when FSU made the CFP Louisville had a big lead until Winston lead them on a nice comeback late. Clemson was in the title game this year, Louisville missed a late chip shot FG to lose by 3. There aren't 2 ACC teams that I want on our schedule more than FSU & Clemson. Just like we want NC & Duke on our basketball schedule. "To be the man, you got to beat the man. Wooo."
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2016 10:55 AM by Lenvillecards.)
01-17-2016 10:53 AM
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nole Offline
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RE: So, what will ACC do now?
I do think Clemson, FSU, Louisville need to be split up somehow. I just don't know how.


Louisville has too much potential to be lodged in a difficult position while other schools who aren't trying as hard as they are in football are fighting to keep their easier path.
01-17-2016 12:03 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: So, what will ACC do now?
It's not the top of the Atlantic that needs to be split up, it's the bottom. BC/Syracuse/Wake need to be split up in some way. My preference would be to move either BC or Syracuse to the Coastal.

Having FSU and Clemson in the same division has elevated both of them because they know they have to beat each other just to make it to the ACCCG. Leave it be.

The Coastal is way more balanced and really doesn't have any bad teams. We need to see if Richt at Miami and Fuente at VT will bear fruit. Fedora seems to be building something at UNC.
01-17-2016 01:34 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: So, what will ACC do now?
I'd like to see the ACC championship be between the two highest ranked ACC teams, even if they are in the same division. Clemson could have won 2 or 3 more ACC titles recently if this was the setup.

I also wouldn't mind gettting rid of the permanent cross divisional rival to have more variety in opponents every year.

it would also help if FSU and Clem played Va Tech more often.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2016 02:53 PM by ClemVegas.)
01-17-2016 02:50 PM
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Ragu Offline
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So, what will ACC do now?
(01-17-2016 12:03 PM)nole Wrote:  I do think Clemson, FSU, Louisville need to be split up somehow. I just don't know how.


Louisville has too much potential to be lodged in a difficult position while other schools who aren't trying as hard as they are in football are fighting to keep their easier path.

No. FSU and Clemson need strong opponents. The bottom of our division is beyond weak. That is the part needing to be fixed. We shouldn't have to play both bc and Syracuse every year while barely ever seeing g tech v tech or unc
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2016 03:59 PM by Ragu.)
01-17-2016 03:56 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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So, what will ACC do now?
(01-17-2016 02:50 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  I'd like to see the ACC championship be between the two highest ranked ACC teams, even if they are in the same division. Clemson could have won 2 or 3 more ACC titles recently if this was the setup.

I also wouldn't mind gettting rid of the permanent cross divisional rival to have more variety in opponents every year.

it would also help if FSU and Clem played Va Tech more often.

The problem is everyone wants to see the same group of teams more often. There's no way to please everyone & so nothing is done.
01-17-2016 03:56 PM
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Ragu Offline
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So, what will ACC do now?
(01-17-2016 01:34 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  It's not the top of the Atlantic that needs to be split up, it's the bottom. BC/Syracuse/Wake need to be split up in some way. My preference would be to move either BC or Syracuse to the Coastal.

Having FSU and Clemson in the same division has elevated both of them because they know they have to beat each other just to make it to the ACCCG. Leave it be.

The Coastal is way more balanced and really doesn't have any bad teams. We need to see if Richt at Miami and Fuente at VT will bear fruit. Fedora seems to be building something at UNC.
This is right. Syracuse bc and wake all being in the Atlantic is beyond ridiculous. Swap Syracuse and va tech so it is a true zipper division.



Can't use the zipper excuse before and then saddle fsu and Clemson with both ne teams and no Virginia team
01-17-2016 03:57 PM
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ren.hoek Offline
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So, what will ACC do now?
(01-17-2016 03:57 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 01:34 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  It's not the top of the Atlantic that needs to be split up, it's the bottom. BC/Syracuse/Wake need to be split up in some way. My preference would be to move either BC or Syracuse to the Coastal.

Having FSU and Clemson in the same division has elevated both of them because they know they have to beat each other just to make it to the ACCCG. Leave it be.

The Coastal is way more balanced and really doesn't have any bad teams. We need to see if Richt at Miami and Fuente at VT will bear fruit. Fedora seems to be building something at UNC.
This is right. Syracuse bc and wake all being in the Atlantic is beyond ridiculous. Swap Syracuse and va tech so it is a true zipper division.



Can't use the zipper excuse before and then saddle fsu and Clemson with both ne teams and no Virginia team

Syracuse for VT makes so much sense for the zipper model alone. It also creates a division of heavyweights with Clemson, FSU, Louisville and a resurgent VT. It would rival the sec west and we'd have several top 20 match ups every year.
01-17-2016 04:14 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #56
So, what will ACC do now?
(01-17-2016 04:14 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 03:57 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 01:34 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  It's not the top of the Atlantic that needs to be split up, it's the bottom. BC/Syracuse/Wake need to be split up in some way. My preference would be to move either BC or Syracuse to the Coastal.

Having FSU and Clemson in the same division has elevated both of them because they know they have to beat each other just to make it to the ACCCG. Leave it be.

The Coastal is way more balanced and really doesn't have any bad teams. We need to see if Richt at Miami and Fuente at VT will bear fruit. Fedora seems to be building something at UNC.
This is right. Syracuse bc and wake all being in the Atlantic is beyond ridiculous. Swap Syracuse and va tech so it is a true zipper division.



Can't use the zipper excuse before and then saddle fsu and Clemson with both ne teams and no Virginia team

Syracuse for VT makes so much sense for the zipper model alone. It also creates a division of heavyweights with Clemson, FSU, Louisville and a resurgent VT. It would rival the sec west and we'd have several top 20 match ups every year.

How about BC for VT? This way Pittsburgh & Syracuse are still split up & Louisville gets to keep Syracuse, a BE rival, on the schedule. Also BC & VT remain a crossover so they aren't disturbed.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2016 04:25 PM by Lenvillecards.)
01-17-2016 04:24 PM
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ren.hoek Offline
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Post: #57
So, what will ACC do now?
(01-17-2016 04:24 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 04:14 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 03:57 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 01:34 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  It's not the top of the Atlantic that needs to be split up, it's the bottom. BC/Syracuse/Wake need to be split up in some way. My preference would be to move either BC or Syracuse to the Coastal.

Having FSU and Clemson in the same division has elevated both of them because they know they have to beat each other just to make it to the ACCCG. Leave it be.

The Coastal is way more balanced and really doesn't have any bad teams. We need to see if Richt at Miami and Fuente at VT will bear fruit. Fedora seems to be building something at UNC.
This is right. Syracuse bc and wake all being in the Atlantic is beyond ridiculous. Swap Syracuse and va tech so it is a true zipper division.



Can't use the zipper excuse before and then saddle fsu and Clemson with both ne teams and no Virginia team

Syracuse for VT makes so much sense for the zipper model alone. It also creates a division of heavyweights with Clemson, FSU, Louisville and a resurgent VT. It would rival the sec west and we'd have several top 20 match ups every year.

How about BC for VT? This way Pittsburgh & Syracuse are still split up & Louisville gets to keep Syracuse, a BE rival, on the schedule. Also BC & VT remain a crossover so they aren't disturbed.

That would also work. I'd think Tobacco Road would rather have Syracuse, though. BC would also put the northernmost and southernmost in the coastal, which might make them complain too.
01-17-2016 04:33 PM
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Ragu Offline
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So, what will ACC do now?
(01-17-2016 04:24 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 04:14 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 03:57 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 01:34 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  It's not the top of the Atlantic that needs to be split up, it's the bottom. BC/Syracuse/Wake need to be split up in some way. My preference would be to move either BC or Syracuse to the Coastal.

Having FSU and Clemson in the same division has elevated both of them because they know they have to beat each other just to make it to the ACCCG. Leave it be.

The Coastal is way more balanced and really doesn't have any bad teams. We need to see if Richt at Miami and Fuente at VT will bear fruit. Fedora seems to be building something at UNC.
This is right. Syracuse bc and wake all being in the Atlantic is beyond ridiculous. Swap Syracuse and va tech so it is a true zipper division.



Can't use the zipper excuse before and then saddle fsu and Clemson with both ne teams and no Virginia team

Syracuse for VT makes so much sense for the zipper model alone. It also creates a division of heavyweights with Clemson, FSU, Louisville and a resurgent VT. It would rival the sec west and we'd have several top 20 match ups every year.

How about BC for VT? This way Pittsburgh & Syracuse are still split up & Louisville gets to keep Syracuse, a BE rival, on the schedule. Also BC & VT remain a crossover so they aren't disturbed.

Wouldn't work. Virginia and Virginia tech have to be a crossover.
01-17-2016 05:10 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #59
So, what will ACC do now?
(01-17-2016 05:10 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 04:24 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 04:14 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 03:57 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 01:34 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  It's not the top of the Atlantic that needs to be split up, it's the bottom. BC/Syracuse/Wake need to be split up in some way. My preference would be to move either BC or Syracuse to the Coastal.

Having FSU and Clemson in the same division has elevated both of them because they know they have to beat each other just to make it to the ACCCG. Leave it be.

The Coastal is way more balanced and really doesn't have any bad teams. We need to see if Richt at Miami and Fuente at VT will bear fruit. Fedora seems to be building something at UNC.
This is right. Syracuse bc and wake all being in the Atlantic is beyond ridiculous. Swap Syracuse and va tech so it is a true zipper division.



Can't use the zipper excuse before and then saddle fsu and Clemson with both ne teams and no Virginia team

Syracuse for VT makes so much sense for the zipper model alone. It also creates a division of heavyweights with Clemson, FSU, Louisville and a resurgent VT. It would rival the sec west and we'd have several top 20 match ups every year.

How about BC for VT? This way Pittsburgh & Syracuse are still split up & Louisville gets to keep Syracuse, a BE rival, on the schedule. Also BC & VT remain a crossover so they aren't disturbed.

Wouldn't work. Virginia and Virginia tech have to be a crossover.

That's a good point.

So VT & Virginia would be crossovers & then Louisville & BC would split Syracuse & Pittsburgh. I stand corrected.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2016 06:26 PM by Lenvillecards.)
01-17-2016 06:23 PM
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Chris02m1 Offline
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RE: So, what will ACC do now?
i would be totally fine swapping to the coastal with virginia tech.

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01-17-2016 07:38 PM
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