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My Several Random ACC Thoughts
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3BNole Offline
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My Several Random ACC Thoughts
1. The ACC has great fans. As an FSU alum and fan, I can say that I love being in the ACC. This conference has some of the best fans in the country in terms of sports-literacy and sportsmanship. I've interacted with supporters of each school, and the more I do so the more respect I have for each group. Talking sports with fans of other ACC schools is enjoyable and enlightening.

2. ACC football games are fun. I've had the opportunity to see games at several of the ACC's southern members (Miami, FSU (of course), GT, Clemson, Wake Forest, Duke) and the ACC championship, and in each case I had a wonderful experience. There are some really great traditions at a lot of schools which make the game day experiences unique and entertaining. Additionally, out of all those "away" games, only the one at Miami and the ACC championship featured FSU. I find it's a lot of fun to watch two other teams play, and I strongly encourage each of you to visit some of the other schools in similar manners to really take in the full experience without the nerves!

2b. I was raised with a bias against Clemson, GT, and UNC fans. However, actually going to games at those schools and interacting a lot with their fans at events like the ACC baseball tournament has completely reversed that viewpoint. The fans at Clemson were wonderful when I was there and I have so much respect for them. The same goes for GT. I've also really enjoyed talking with UNC baseball fans over the years. You all should be very proud of your fanbases, and I just hope that for anyone who has ever come down to Tallahassee or interacted with our fans that it has been positive as well.

3. The ACC is a great athletics conference, and we should really own up to it. I'm not saying that fans need to become arrogant or start chanting "ACC, ACC" all the time, but when are we ever going to put away the mindset that we're the weakest of the major conferences and accept the fact that in reality, the conference is thriving in essentially every sport. I mean, think about it, ACC schools have won the national championship in football, basketball, and baseball all within the past 2-3 years! This year alone ACC teams competed in the national championship in all 3 of those sports, not to mention our incredible success in the olympic sports!

3b. Competing in the ACC in football does not inhibit the potential for football success. Yes, you're hearing that from an FSU fan. The conference has been very well represented as of late, and that is directly tied to individual institution's commitment to the game. If a school wants to succeed in the conference and nationally, all they have to do is to invest. Right now I think that FSU and Clemson are very well poised, but I see UNC, Louisville, VT, Miami, and others all making significant gains for the future.

3c. As much as it annoys me the other conferences make more tv revenue than the ACC, I do not see any evidence that it has hurt, or will ever hurt FSU. I can't speak for any other schools because I don't know their financial situations, but all I know is that it has not inhibited us from building an indoor practice facility or paying our coaches some of the highest salaries in the country. I can see how it might hurt programs with more of an income-crunch, but for all the talk by fellow FSU fans about how we're doomed if we don't keep up with the Jones's, I have yet to see any hint of its effect.

4. I wish the ACC would move the baseball tournament south again. I don't mind the football championship being played annually in Charlotte since it's the geographic center of the conference. I don't mind the basketball tournament staying in North Carolina or points north since most of the basketball-strong schools reside up there. I do wish however, that the ACC would move the baseball tournament back to Jacksonville however, at least on a rotating basis. Naturally my reasons are selfish, I miss being able to attend, but they're also somewhat altruistic. The tournaments in Jacksonville were really well attending by fans of all conferences because they were able to turn the trip into a vacation, with many families continuing on to the beach or to Disney World. It was a great atmosphere and I miss it. If the conference doesn't want to permanently move it there, which I can understand, I at least wish it would set up an annual rotation between say Jacksonville, Greenville, and Durham.

5. To the ACC "newcomers": Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, and Notre Dame*; we're glad to have you here! Each of you has contributed greatly to the conference in different ways, and out of all the options the conference had in expanding/replacing teams, I think they chose the 3 best programs, and I'm excited to watch as you each continue to grow in the conference and make your own success.

5b. And yes, I do wish/hope ND one day becomes a full member, but even if they never do, I'm happy for the great matchups we get to share with them now every 3 years or so. It boosts the schedule and gets the fans excited.

5c. I do not miss Maryland.

6. I can't speak for all FSU fans, but as a 3rd generation alum, native Tallahassean, and lifelong FSU fan, I can genuinely say that I am very happy that we are in the ACC; and the large majority of FSU fans will agree. That doesn't mean that there aren't times that I'm not frustrated with the conference, but in the end, the conference has been and continues to be a great fit for us athletically, academically, and culturally. A lot of people, most of them not FSU or ACC fans, talk about how unhappy Florida State is in the ACC and how quickly we'd bolt for the Big 12 or SEC in the opportunity arose; but the fact is, we have had those offers in the past and we're still here.
02-13-2016 02:32 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Amen....let me know if u come north to Cuse this Fall
02-13-2016 03:26 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Great post.
02-13-2016 03:36 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 3BNole. There are some guys on this board that will have us believe that most FSU fans don't like the ACC. I had a chance to peruse Warchant.com and that is clearly not the case.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2016 11:15 AM by cuseroc.)
02-14-2016 11:13 AM
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Speaking of FSU fans, what happened to Marge?
02-14-2016 01:02 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
(02-14-2016 01:02 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Speaking of FSU fans, what happened to Marge?

Marge Schott
(Banned)
02-14-2016 05:51 PM
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ecuacc4ever Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
(02-13-2016 02:32 PM)3BNole Wrote:  3b. Competing in the ACC in football does not inhibit the potential for football success. Yes, you're hearing that from an FSU fan. The conference has been very well represented as of late, and that is directly tied to individual institution's commitment to the game. If a school wants to succeed in the conference and nationally, all they have to do is to invest. Right now I think that FSU and Clemson are very well poised, but I see UNC, Louisville, VT, Miami, and others all making significant gains for the future.

3c. As much as it annoys me the other conferences make more tv revenue than the ACC, I do not see any evidence that it has hurt, or will ever hurt FSU.

5c. I do not miss Maryland.

I like this guy. Think I'll pad his rep every week until the start of FB season :)

04-cheers
02-14-2016 08:08 PM
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FloridaState1990 Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Great post. Think the only point of contention is not having a network.
02-14-2016 09:18 PM
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Lou_C Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
There's a lot of good stuff in this post. At the end of the day, I believe the ACC really has the potential to be the best possible conference for FSU, for a lot of reasons mentioned, and some others. I think most FSU fans would be most pleased to stay in the ACC if it can work.

However, these points are just not well supportable...
3. The ACC is a great athletics conference, and we should really own up to it. I'm not saying that fans need to become arrogant or start chanting "ACC, ACC" all the time, but when are we ever going to put away the mindset that we're the weakest of the major conferences and accept the fact that in reality, the conference is thriving in essentially every sport. I mean, think about it, ACC schools have won the national championship in football, basketball, and baseball all within the past 2-3 years! This year alone ACC teams competed in the national championship in all 3 of those sports, not to mention our incredible success in the olympic sports!


This is mostly right...but there's an extreme recency bias. 3 years does not validate the performance of this conference. It went, what 50 years without a baseball title? It was the worst conference by far of the BCS football era. And even basketball when through a pretty long non-elite stretch. I agree, and have said many times, that the ACC has been ascendant in football, but let's not pretend that so far, it's still a total anomaly.

3b. Competing in the ACC in football does not inhibit the potential for football success. Yes, you're hearing that from an FSU fan. The conference has been very well represented as of late, and that is directly tied to individual institution's commitment to the game. If a school wants to succeed in the conference and nationally, all they have to do is to invest. Right now I think that FSU and Clemson are very well poised, but I see UNC, Louisville, VT, Miami, and others all making significant gains for the future.

I'm not even sure this is true or relevant. But even if it is true, what does it matter if enough investment is all it take to be relevant, if only FSU and Clemson have the will or means to make that kind of investment. I'm sorry...most of the members of this conference, including often noted "potential" programs like Miami and GT simply CAN NOT make the investment required at the elite level. Nor can Syracuse, BC, WF, Pitt, Duke, etc. etc. And some schools that theoretically could, like UNC and UVA, have shown questionable commitment toward those ends. One of the things that keeps programs from investing more is...

3c. As much as it annoys me the other conferences make more tv revenue than the ACC, I do not see any evidence that it has hurt, or will ever hurt FSU. I can't speak for any other schools because I don't know their financial situations, but all I know is that it has not inhibited us from building an indoor practice facility or paying our coaches some of the highest salaries in the country. I can see how it might hurt programs with more of an income-crunch, but for all the talk by fellow FSU fans about how we're doomed if we don't keep up with the Jones's, I have yet to see any hint of its effect.


First of all, you haven't seen the effects of the asteroid because the asteroid hasn't hit yet. That doesn't mean the asteroid isn't going to have an impact.

And if you're not seeing hints of it, you just aren't looking very hard. You really can't see any difference in FSU's recruiting successes across SEC country in the last 20 years? Plus, FSU has been extremely fortunate to have Bowden succeeded by Fisher, so it hasn't even faced the biggest challenge posed by revenue issues....the ability to fire coaches as needed and assume those costs.

The bottom line is that there are a LOT of things about the ACC that are good for FSU. But you can't just pretend the money arms race is not real or meaningful in college sports, and have faith that a deficit of $20M+ per year is not going to have any effect. This is NOT an issue that can be ignored, for FSU or anyone else in the ACC who thinks they want to compete (not sure how many that is). It must be addressed.
02-15-2016 07:45 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Nonsense Lou.....get with the program!

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02-15-2016 11:35 PM
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nole Online
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Lou covered some good points.

Anyone who claims that FSU fan base has one monolithic voice regarding the ACC doesn't know FSU's fan base. FSU fan base is varied on the topic of the ACC.....sorry to disappoint those who want to believe it is less complex (and for those who claim Warchant is proof otherwise....put a poll on there and you WILL be proven wrong....and the owner on the site regularly question the ACC and it's future).

Regarding this point (from OP) below BEYOND what Lou so correctly addressed is this.

My booster requirements just DOUBLED for me to keep my football seats. I am just a mid level booster....but I used to have to give $1000 for the right to purchase tix (not for the actual tix mind you, just the right to purchase them).......starting this year, I now have to pay $2000

Yet you see no evidence?

I am sure lack of revenue from the ACC is no problem if you just require double booster donations.......of course at some point, that won't work anymore as the gap continues to grow.

It is EASY for folks who aren't in the arms race to say they don't care about it....but for the institutions or people who actually are investing money in it.....it is VERY real and RIGHT NOW. The evidence is there.

Final point, more than a few folks on this board feel the need to ignore points, build straw men, etc in order to ignore what has been written over and over....and Lou hinted at.

FSU fans with concern over the ACC...don't hate it...they want it to work read that again....THEY WANT IT TO WORK....but are sick and tired of the BS that you have to pretend there are no problems in the ACC. They are real, cheerleading won't make them go away, and they could have major impact in the future....no matter how much sunshine you blow up each others backside. The refusal to acknowledge issues is the foundation for no change which is going to be an issue in the future.

Realizing the growing revenue gap is a concern does NOT equal you hate the ACC...it means it is real and it WILL be a problem. Not for schools not competing for national titles in football....but for those who are....it will be.

Same with coverage disparities vs SEC, same with conf. leadership, etc.

Can we please acknowledge our conference issues without taking it personally? Pointing out issues of the government doesn't mean you hate America.

ACC is either going to start addressing it's issues......or changes will be forced. I believe that is the long and short of it.


(02-13-2016 02:32 PM)3BNole Wrote:  3c. As much as it annoys me the other conferences make more tv revenue than the ACC, I do not see any evidence that it has hurt, or will ever hurt FSU. I can't speak for any other schools because I don't know their financial situations, but all I know is that it has not inhibited us from building an indoor practice facility or paying our coaches some of the highest salaries in the country. I can see how it might hurt programs with more of an income-crunch, but for all the talk by fellow FSU fans about how we're doomed if we don't keep up with the Jones's, I have yet to see any hint of its effect.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2016 09:33 AM by nole.)
02-16-2016 08:47 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Much of the success of college athletics is based on the enthusiastic support of the fans. Therefore, I think there has to be a balance between optimism and realism. Of course you have to have a realistic view of the problems in order to address them properly; on the other hand, if there isn't enough enthusiasm, that will surely result in failure, too.

To quote the rock band Rush:
Quote:always hopeful, yet discontent
he knows changes aren't permanent
but change is...
(from the song "Tom Sawyer")
02-16-2016 10:03 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #13
My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Nole, I agree that the growing revenue gap is a problem but I have a question for you on the doubling of the donation requirement at FSU, is it possible that that increase is caused by supply & demand? It is reasonable to assume that the demand for season football tickets would increase following a national championship run & with the great success of Jimbo.
02-16-2016 10:11 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
FSU could help themselves by supporting your basketball better. If you filled the arena with more regularity that would help reduce the financial stress. Your tickets are dirt cheap...and you averaged 6700 last year. Just saying...

You have 20+ times to fill your coffers with 12k seats instead of 6k...if you charged the ACC average of $25-35 a ticket that would help more.

You don't even have to charge what Duke, UNC, Ville and Cuse charges...
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2016 10:24 AM by TexanMark.)
02-16-2016 10:20 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
(02-16-2016 10:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU could help themselves by supporting your basketball better. If you filled the arena with more regularity that would help reduce the financial stress. Your tickets are dirt cheap...and you averaged 6700 last year. Just saying...

You have 20+ times to fill your coffers with 12k seats instead of 6k...if you charged the ACC average of $25-35 a ticket that would help more.

You don't even have to charge what Duke, UNC, Ville and Cuse charges...

I have to call a foul here... such suggestions are like asking why doesn't Pitt sell out Heinz Field or why doesn't Miami sell out Sun-Life? Or, for that matter, why can't Syracuse charge $55 per football ticket like Clemson does?
02-16-2016 10:57 AM
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Lou_C Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
(02-16-2016 10:57 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(02-16-2016 10:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU could help themselves by supporting your basketball better. If you filled the arena with more regularity that would help reduce the financial stress. Your tickets are dirt cheap...and you averaged 6700 last year. Just saying...

You have 20+ times to fill your coffers with 12k seats instead of 6k...if you charged the ACC average of $25-35 a ticket that would help more.

You don't even have to charge what Duke, UNC, Ville and Cuse charges...

I have to call a foul here... such suggestions are like asking why doesn't Pitt sell out Heinz Field or why doesn't Miami sell out Sun-Life? Or, for that matter, why can't Syracuse charge $55 per football ticket like Clemson does?

Exactly. It would be nice, and FSU is finally making some progress on basketball facilities, but it is what it is. Syracuse doesn't even have a baseball team...how much revenue are they leaving on the table by not selling out 25 baseball games a year?

That's not a solution.
02-16-2016 11:24 AM
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Lou_C Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
Can we please acknowledge our conference issues without taking it personally? Pointing out issues of the government doesn't mean you hate America.

And this is a very good way to put it.
02-16-2016 11:30 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
(02-16-2016 11:24 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  
(02-16-2016 10:57 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(02-16-2016 10:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU could help themselves by supporting your basketball better. If you filled the arena with more regularity that would help reduce the financial stress. Your tickets are dirt cheap...and you averaged 6700 last year. Just saying...

You have 20+ times to fill your coffers with 12k seats instead of 6k...if you charged the ACC average of $25-35 a ticket that would help more.

You don't even have to charge what Duke, UNC, Ville and Cuse charges...

I have to call a foul here... such suggestions are like asking why doesn't Pitt sell out Heinz Field or why doesn't Miami sell out Sun-Life? Or, for that matter, why can't Syracuse charge $55 per football ticket like Clemson does?

Exactly. It would be nice, and FSU is finally making some progress on basketball facilities, but it is what it is. Syracuse doesn't even have a baseball team...how much revenue are they leaving on the table by not selling out 25 baseball games a year?

That's not a solution.

Cuse has Lacrosse which generates revenue.

Baseball would be a money loser for us.

HokieMark, Why is it a foul? I'm not the one debating about not enough revenue...schools can help themselves in other areas. FSU, Clemson and Virginia Tech generate most of their revenue through only Football...other schools have basketball, baseball and lacrosse to help the bottom line.

We all agree the ACC needs more cable/TV revenue. 04-cheers
02-16-2016 11:46 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
(02-16-2016 11:46 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(02-16-2016 11:24 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  
(02-16-2016 10:57 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(02-16-2016 10:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  FSU could help themselves by supporting your basketball better. If you filled the arena with more regularity that would help reduce the financial stress. Your tickets are dirt cheap...and you averaged 6700 last year. Just saying...

You have 20+ times to fill your coffers with 12k seats instead of 6k...if you charged the ACC average of $25-35 a ticket that would help more.

You don't even have to charge what Duke, UNC, Ville and Cuse charges...

I have to call a foul here... such suggestions are like asking why doesn't Pitt sell out Heinz Field or why doesn't Miami sell out Sun-Life? Or, for that matter, why can't Syracuse charge $55 per football ticket like Clemson does?

Exactly. It would be nice, and FSU is finally making some progress on basketball facilities, but it is what it is. Syracuse doesn't even have a baseball team...how much revenue are they leaving on the table by not selling out 25 baseball games a year?

That's not a solution.

Cuse has Lacrosse which generates revenue.

Baseball would be a money loser for us.

HokieMark, Why is it a foul? I'm not the one debating about not enough revenue...schools can help themselves in other areas. FSU, Clemson and Virginia Tech generate most of their revenue through only Football...other schools have basketball, baseball and lacrosse to help the bottom line.

We all agree the ACC needs more cable/TV revenue. 04-cheers

A: Because you didn't establish your position BEFORE he came strong to the hole...

(terms any Syracuse fan should be able to understand; Duke fans, not so much - for them it's ALWAYS charging!)
02-16-2016 01:32 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: My Several Random ACC Thoughts
I find it hilarious to be preached to about attendance by a fan of a school who even if you combine total attendance for both football and basketball it still doesn't equal just our football attendance.
02-16-2016 02:31 PM
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