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Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
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Big Ron Buckeye Offline
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Post: #1
Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
So the main argument against Oklahoma and/or Florida State as a potential candidates for B1G expansion is that they are not AAU. As a biased observer (I'm not even going to feign remote impartiality), how does the AAU requirement jive with extending Notre Dame an offer in the late 90s?

If conference networks were not in play, let's face it, Notre Dame would be the ultimate addition to the B1G athletically with or without AAU. Though OU and FSU have substantial name recognition, they don't resonate in the Mid-West and East Coast like Notre Dame. What that means is that Notre Dame would likely have higher local and national ratings and attendance figures especially at the middle and lower tier of the league. PSU v FSU or PSU v ND will draw well but what about NW v FSU or NW v ND? I could throw just about the entire B1G save the top TV draws and ND would probably do better. This is also the reason IMO that Notre Dame summarily beotch-slapped our proposal by wedding themselves to the Big East and later the ACC. What would Notre Dame get out of the B1G other than regionalizing themselves? Far better IMO that ND play USC/Stanford than Illinois/Indiana annually. ND made the right call.

Furthermore, though football is the primary sport of consequence in the realignment conversation, the Non-revs would probably be even more substantially impacted by Notre Dame. Proximity and the name brand would generate more buzz in the present B1G footprint if for no other reason than Notre Dame fields a competitive athletic department across the board and has sports like lacrosse and ice hockey not available at OU or FSU but increasingly more important in the BTN content offerings.

Now onto the cord cutters and their collective impact... Assuming cable subscriptions keep dwindling until they reach some yet to be determined stable place, and assuming that place isn't zero... Both OU & FSU have a leg up over ND by increasing "in-market" fees to the conference. We also observe from the oft-ridiculed additions of Maryland and Rutgers that the recruiting in that region improved remarkably which could help overall talent level of the conference.

Given my limited understanding of the conference's network revenue model, the two drivers of BTN revenue are subscription fees and advertisement. Subscription fees are under pressure because of cord cutters so advertisement will become more important which translates to more people need to be interested in the game. So as I see it the question to ponder is this: Is the slightly higher draw for ND in the Midwest/East Coast enough to cover the loss of subscription fees and potential new recruiting areas?

My answer is no. Inasmuch as the non-revs produce more interest at Notre Dame in the footprint, they are not really a major consideration in the carriage rate asked by the B1G. Football provides the lion's share of the valuable content for the conference networks and probably upward of 70% of the value of the Network. While OU & FSU may not draw as well as ND in the footprint... they will still draw extremely well. Additionally, I don't see the league going to FSU without constructing a land bridge of UVA, UNC, and GT. and OU would almost certainly be a great way of making Texas feel closer.

Under this idea the league would be at 20 and it would make since to go to 4 divisions of 5. That would make the annual games more regional.
North (Sparty, Indy, ILL, Purdue, NW) Sparty would OWN this division!!!
East (Rut, Md, PSU, OSU, Mich)
West (UW, MN, Iowa, Neb, OU)
South (UVA, UNC, GT, FSU, UT)
I don't want to get caught up in divisions, my point is that with divisions like this 4 of your 9 conference games are regional and at most you'd have 1 away game per division per year.

Now to the point of individual schools qualifications specifically the issue of AAU. OU and FSU are not AAU and who knows how long it will take to get there. But neither is Notre Dame. Why was Notre Dame given an AAU pass but every other school in the country without exception is held to the AAU standard to be considered? It is a double standard and proves to me that at the end of the day the B1G can do what it wants and if the Brand is strong enough, they will make an exception. Throw in the Markets and recruiting added in Florda, Oklahoma and Texas (OU is heavily represented in Texas) and I think OU and FSU are the right programs with strong enough Brands to get the AAU exception.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2016 10:04 PM by Big Ron Buckeye.)
02-13-2016 09:58 PM
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CintiFan Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(02-13-2016 09:58 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  So the main argument against Oklahoma and/or Florida State as a potential candidates for B1G expansion is that they are not AAU. As a biased observer (I'm not even going to feign remote impartiality), how does the AAU requirement jive with extending Notre Dame an offer in the late 90s?

If conference networks were not in play, let's face it, Notre Dame would be the ultimate addition to the B1G athletically with or without AAU. Though OU and FSU have substantial name recognition, they don't resonate in the Mid-West and East Coast like Notre Dame. What that means is that Notre Dame would likely have higher local and national ratings and attendance figures especially at the middle and lower tier of the league. PSU v FSU or PSU v ND will draw well but what about NW v FSU or NW v ND? I could throw just about the entire B1G save the top TV draws and ND would probably do better. This is also the reason IMO that Notre Dame summarily beotch-slapped our proposal by wedding themselves to the Big East and later the ACC. What would Notre Dame get out of the B1G other than regionalizing themselves? Far better IMO that ND play USC/Stanford than Illinois/Indiana annually. ND made the right call.

Furthermore, though football is the primary sport of consequence in the realignment conversation, the Non-revs would probably be even more substantially impacted by Notre Dame. Proximity and the name brand would generate more buzz in the present B1G footprint if for no other reason than Notre Dame fields a competitive athletic department across the board and has sports like lacrosse and ice hockey not available at OU or FSU but increasingly more important in the BTN content offerings.

Now onto the cord cutters and their collective impact... Assuming cable subscriptions keep dwindling until they reach some yet to be determined stable place, and assuming that place isn't zero... Both OU & FSU have a leg up over ND by increasing "in-market" fees to the conference. We also observe from the oft-ridiculed additions of Maryland and Rutgers that the recruiting in that region improved remarkably which could help overall talent level of the conference.

Given my limited understanding of the conference's network revenue model, the two drivers of BTN revenue are subscription fees and advertisement. Subscription fees are under pressure because of cord cutters so advertisement will become more important which translates to more people need to be interested in the game. So as I see it the question to ponder is this: Is the slightly higher draw for ND in the Midwest/East Coast enough to cover the loss of subscription fees and potential new recruiting areas?

My answer is no. Inasmuch as the non-revs produce more interest at Notre Dame in the footprint, they are not really a major consideration in the carriage rate asked by the B1G. Football provides the lion's share of the valuable content for the conference networks and probably upward of 70% of the value of the Network. While OU & FSU may not draw as well as ND in the footprint... they will still draw extremely well. Additionally, I don't see the league going to FSU without constructing a land bridge of UVA, UNC, and GT. and OU would almost certainly be a great way of making Texas feel closer.

Under this idea the league would be at 20 and it would make since to go to 4 divisions of 5. That would make the annual games more regional.
North (Sparty, Indy, ILL, Purdue, NW) Sparty would OWN this division!!!
East (Rut, Md, PSU, OSU, Mich)
West (UW, MN, Iowa, Neb, OU)
South (UVA, UNC, GT, FSU, UT)
I don't want to get caught up in divisions, my point is that with divisions like this 4 of your 9 conference games are regional and at most you'd have 1 away game per division per year.

Now to the point of individual schools qualifications specifically the issue of AAU. OU and FSU are not AAU and who knows how long it will take to get there. But neither is Notre Dame. Why was Notre Dame given an AAU pass but every other school in the country without exception is held to the AAU standard to be considered? It is a double standard and proves to me that at the end of the day the B1G can do what it wants and if the Brand is strong enough, they will make an exception. Throw in the Markets and recruiting added in Florda, Oklahoma and Texas (OU is heavily represented in Texas) and I think OU and FSU are the right programs with strong enough Brands to get the AAU exception.

The combination of Oklahoma and Texas to the west and UVa, UNC, GT and FSU to the east would be Delaney's dream scenario. The point you miss is that to the B1G Presidents - who ultimately make realignment decisions - academics are extremely important. The B1G Presidents understand the importance of athletics, but won't back away from academic criteria just to add a jock school.

Nevertheless, both Oklahoma and FSU are OK academically, more or less along the lines of Nebraska, which puts them at the bottom of the B1G academic rankings. I can see the Presidents giving Oklahoma a pass because of the importance of the NE-OU rivalry to Nebraska and the blue-blood football program at OU. I'm not so sure about FSU. FSU would give the B1G another blue-blood program and help open up the Florida recruiting market, but if feels more like just adding a jock school. I don't think any of the other potential east adds (UVa, UNC or GT) regard FSU as a strong rivalry game.

I think the time has passed when ND would get an invitation. ND is a top notch academic institution, but not a top notch research institution in the STEM areas and those are the areas that get national research grants in the billions every year. For the B1G presidents, grants and research are what helps separate the B1G from others and they will want that in the future. It seems clear ND doesn't really want a B1G invitation and the B1G seems to have moved on and focused on other target schools.
02-14-2016 03:43 AM
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Big Ron Buckeye Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(02-14-2016 03:43 AM)CintiFan Wrote:  
(02-13-2016 09:58 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  So the main argument against Oklahoma and/or Florida State as a potential candidates for B1G expansion is that they are not AAU. As a biased observer (I'm not even going to feign remote impartiality), how does the AAU requirement jive with extending Notre Dame an offer in the late 90s?

If conference networks were not in play, let's face it, Notre Dame would be the ultimate addition to the B1G athletically with or without AAU. Though OU and FSU have substantial name recognition, they don't resonate in the Mid-West and East Coast like Notre Dame. What that means is that Notre Dame would likely have higher local and national ratings and attendance figures especially at the middle and lower tier of the league. PSU v FSU or PSU v ND will draw well but what about NW v FSU or NW v ND? I could throw just about the entire B1G save the top TV draws and ND would probably do better. This is also the reason IMO that Notre Dame summarily beotch-slapped our proposal by wedding themselves to the Big East and later the ACC. What would Notre Dame get out of the B1G other than regionalizing themselves? Far better IMO that ND play USC/Stanford than Illinois/Indiana annually. ND made the right call.

Furthermore, though football is the primary sport of consequence in the realignment conversation, the Non-revs would probably be even more substantially impacted by Notre Dame. Proximity and the name brand would generate more buzz in the present B1G footprint if for no other reason than Notre Dame fields a competitive athletic department across the board and has sports like lacrosse and ice hockey not available at OU or FSU but increasingly more important in the BTN content offerings.

Now onto the cord cutters and their collective impact... Assuming cable subscriptions keep dwindling until they reach some yet to be determined stable place, and assuming that place isn't zero... Both OU & FSU have a leg up over ND by increasing "in-market" fees to the conference. We also observe from the oft-ridiculed additions of Maryland and Rutgers that the recruiting in that region improved remarkably which could help overall talent level of the conference.

Given my limited understanding of the conference's network revenue model, the two drivers of BTN revenue are subscription fees and advertisement. Subscription fees are under pressure because of cord cutters so advertisement will become more important which translates to more people need to be interested in the game. So as I see it the question to ponder is this: Is the slightly higher draw for ND in the Midwest/East Coast enough to cover the loss of subscription fees and potential new recruiting areas?

My answer is no. Inasmuch as the non-revs produce more interest at Notre Dame in the footprint, they are not really a major consideration in the carriage rate asked by the B1G. Football provides the lion's share of the valuable content for the conference networks and probably upward of 70% of the value of the Network. While OU & FSU may not draw as well as ND in the footprint... they will still draw extremely well. Additionally, I don't see the league going to FSU without constructing a land bridge of UVA, UNC, and GT. and OU would almost certainly be a great way of making Texas feel closer.

Under this idea the league would be at 20 and it would make since to go to 4 divisions of 5. That would make the annual games more regional.
North (Sparty, Indy, ILL, Purdue, NW) Sparty would OWN this division!!!
East (Rut, Md, PSU, OSU, Mich)
West (UW, MN, Iowa, Neb, OU)
South (UVA, UNC, GT, FSU, UT)
I don't want to get caught up in divisions, my point is that with divisions like this 4 of your 9 conference games are regional and at most you'd have 1 away game per division per year.

Now to the point of individual schools qualifications specifically the issue of AAU. OU and FSU are not AAU and who knows how long it will take to get there. But neither is Notre Dame. Why was Notre Dame given an AAU pass but every other school in the country without exception is held to the AAU standard to be considered? It is a double standard and proves to me that at the end of the day the B1G can do what it wants and if the Brand is strong enough, they will make an exception. Throw in the Markets and recruiting added in Florda, Oklahoma and Texas (OU is heavily represented in Texas) and I think OU and FSU are the right programs with strong enough Brands to get the AAU exception.

The combination of Oklahoma and Texas to the west and UVa, UNC, GT and FSU to the east would be Delaney's dream scenario. The point you miss is that to the B1G Presidents - who ultimately make realignment decisions - academics are extremely important. The B1G Presidents understand the importance of athletics, but won't back away from academic criteria just to add a jock school.

Nevertheless, both Oklahoma and FSU are OK academically, more or less along the lines of Nebraska, which puts them at the bottom of the B1G academic rankings. I can see the Presidents giving Oklahoma a pass because of the importance of the NE-OU rivalry to Nebraska and the blue-blood football program at OU. I'm not so sure about FSU. FSU would give the B1G another blue-blood program and help open up the Florida recruiting market, but if feels more like just adding a jock school. I don't think any of the other potential east adds (UVa, UNC or GT) regard FSU as a strong rivalry game.

I think the time has passed when ND would get an invitation. ND is a top notch academic institution, but not a top notch research institution in the STEM areas and those are the areas that get national research grants in the billions every year. For the B1G presidents, grants and research are what helps separate the B1G from others and they will want that in the future. It seems clear ND doesn't really want a B1G invitation and the B1G seems to have moved on and focused on other target schools.

You miss my point. Notre Dame GOT an invitation in 1999.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-...n-question

It's not about whether or not I think they would get one.
02-14-2016 09:48 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
I didn't answer your poll for these reasons.

1. I do think under the right circumstances that the Big 10 would offer a non AAU school.

Oklahoma: Yes, if Texas wasn't an option and they truly wanted Kansas and more Westward expansion, which I do not believe to be the case.

The Big 10 penetrates most Kansas markets well without the Jayhawks. Kansas and Oklahoma together do add national brands, but not many actual alums. They both have history, but recent successes have been less than each of their storied pasts.

I do think the Big 10 would take OU in a heartbeat if Texas came with them instead of/or in addition to Kansas. As a package they would be worth it.

2. Notre Dame: Of course! They have enough alumni in the Northeast to give the Big 10 a one addition move that solidifies their grip on that region.

They are a lacrosse entity of note which is important to the other potential Big 10 targets to the East (UVa, UNC, & Duke). Together those 4 schools solidify the Big 10's desires to move east with both a Football national brand, a football regional brand (though not a great one in UNC) and two national brands in hoops (UNC & Duke) and with other strong basketball brands in Virginia and N.D..

That foursome gives the Big 10 & its network the most bang for the buck.

3. Florida State: No. A total outlier, a football school, and academics not on par with those of Oklahoma and Syracuse, but rather a good notch or two lower.

When the Big 10 expands again it will follow the same principles that made it strong in the past and the same principles that the SEC will use.
1. Branding (Flagship AAU programs & national brands).
2. Contiguity
3. Cultural fits that solidify their footprints.

Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, & Notre Dame do that.
Georgia Tech and Florida State are not cultural fits (although Tech is an academic fit) and both are geographical outliers.

So yes the Big 10 might well take a school that is non AAU and N.D. and Oklahoma could/would both qualify. But don't look for the Big 10 to move farther South than North Carolina and don't look for the SEC to move farther North than Virginia.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2016 10:55 AM by JRsec.)
02-14-2016 10:54 AM
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Post: #5
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
No to Florida State but otherwise yes to non-AAU schools.
02-14-2016 12:32 PM
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Big Ron Buckeye Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(02-14-2016 12:32 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  No to Florida State but otherwise yes to non-AAU schools.

Why an absolute and unequivocal no to Florida State? I think they make sense if you can build a land bridge to Florida.
02-14-2016 12:37 PM
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Post: #7
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(02-14-2016 12:37 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  
(02-14-2016 12:32 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  No to Florida State but otherwise yes to non-AAU schools.

Why an absolute and unequivocal no to Florida State? I think they make sense if you can build a land bridge to Florida.
I, like many Terps, never thought Florida State was ACC-worthy. So I can't imagine the school in the Big Ten. Second, I prefer a slow-creap expansion into bordering states. Towards that end, my preferred expansion candidates are Virginia Tech and NC State in the South or Cuse and UConn in the Northeast. Finally, I just can't imagine FSU fans being content as an isolated school in a far away conference.
02-14-2016 12:52 PM
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RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
I'm over Notre Dame. If they want to join the Big Ten, then the conference will make room if they can but the Big Ten won't wait for them.

Florida State, I imagine, is not good enough on their own academically, not to mention their location of being on an island. They would certainly need one of Georgia Tech or Miami to be added along with themselves to tag along to satisfy the academics (assuming that Miami is regarded as good enough to cover for Florida State). I don't think the conference would want to have a "West Virginia" problem of having Florida State on an island, but would Miami and/or Georgia Tech leave the ACC without additional friends? I don't think so. North Carolina is likely the grand prize that the Big Ten would want from the ACC. I don't think there is a package of schools to bring North Carolina to the Big Ten that the Big Ten would approve, i.e. Wake Forest. UNC cares enough about Wake Forest that they agreed to play each other as a non-conference football opponents because they weren't playing enough since they are in opposite divisions.

I don't think Oklahoma is good enough on their own and would need the cover of another academic school to get Big Ten entrance. I'm not sure that Kansas is good enough cover for them, just as I am not sure Miami is good enough for Florida State. Likewise with UNC, I don't think there is a combination of schools that would be sexy enough for Texas to join the Big Ten that would be acceptable to the Big Ten. Texas plays what, like 9 games of their schedule in the state of Texas? At best, Texas would have four home conference games, the Red River Rivalry (which would replace the fifth home game in a 9 game conference schedule), and three non-conference games in-state.

TL;DR Version: Notre Dame will probably always have a spot saved for them or room will be made. Florida State would need to tag-along with a top notch academic or be in a group of academics to be invited while bringing a nearby partner. Oklahoma is probably not good enough on their own but require less help than FSU. Texas and UNC may be pipe dreams because the Big Ten can't offer them a package that checks off every box.
02-14-2016 01:52 PM
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Post: #9
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
The fact that ND was offered a spot 15 years ago, or might have been offered a spot a couple years ago when realignment heated up again, just goes to show that the AAU requirement would not be a show stopper in special circumstances. ND, though, may be the only program that gets a pass.

FSU only begins to get consideration if the B1G has already created a bridge to Florida by getting UVa, UNC, Duke and Georgia Tech. That's not likely to happen unless the ACC is falling apart. If it did happen, though, I still don't think FSU gets an invitation. FSU adds a nice football brand, but the B1G wants the flagship schools and academic powerhouses, and in the State of Florida that's the University of Florida, not FSU. Florida also seems to stretch the B1G geographically too far. Adding FSU might help B1G recruiting in Florida, but the B1G already recruits Florida OK and the addition of Georgia Tech would help in that regard as well. FSU is also not really a long time rival of UVA, UNC, Duke or Georgia Tech. I don't see any overly compelling reason to add them. Not being an AAU school seals their fate.

I think Oklahoma, on the other hand, has a much better shot. Adding OU and Kansas, or OU, Kansas and Texas, would solidify the western division, cementing Nebraska's position much like Rutgers and Maryland helped solidify Penn State in the east. The B1G media types would love to restart the Nebraska/Oklahoma Thanksgiving Day series as a B1G product. Would that be enough for the B1G Presidents to disregard the AAU preference? I hope so.
02-14-2016 09:17 PM
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Post: #10
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
If the Big Ten sells it's television package by the game/season or whatever, the Oklahoma - Nebraska game becomes a huge television draw to get big dollars for, not to mention any other Oklahoma game. It also is important for schools to schedule stronger non-conference. It is another reason I see UConn as a long shot to join the conference. Who do they boost television numbers for? Football wise, at least Kansas borders Nebraska and Oklahoma (if added) while being near enough to Iowa.
02-14-2016 10:48 PM
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Post: #11
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
The AAU thing is something to hang your hat on. I voted in the poll, and truly believe, that the only non-AAU school to invite would be Notre Dame. Unlike some of the other non-AAU schools, their prestige and academic quality is not in doubt whatsoever. They are a very good school, easily on par or better than most of the existing B1G. That is something Oklahoma, FSU, or any other non-AAU school considered can really say.

Notre Dame is one of the only schools that gets a pass for its religious affiliation, as their fan base and alumni are national in every sense.

To put out my bias, I really wish Missouri and kansas would be invited and end all realignment.

But as an unbiased observer, the B1G has a lot going for it that other conferences don't. They shouldn't dilute their academic rep for any reason. The only non-AAU school that wouldn't, would be Notre Dame. Don't think Notre Dame would come anyways, but you never know.
02-15-2016 10:31 AM
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Post: #12
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
You can forget Notre Dame. It cherishes its independence status. I'm cool with that.

If the goal is to get to 16, then I would prefer consolidation of control of the northeast corridor, from Boston to DC. Again, my two schools are Cuse and UConn.

If the goal is 18, then I'd add Missouri and Kansas to the mix.

If 20, then I could see adding Oklahoma and one other school.
02-15-2016 01:14 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
Oklahoma is one of the few non AAU schools presidents would be ok with. No way FSU gets a invite. i would Rather have Miami if we want a Florida school.
02-16-2016 11:41 PM
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Post: #14
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
I'm rather anti-expansion (to put it mildly) so any move that reduces the odds of expansion happening is fine by me.

That said, I don't think non-AAU is 100% a non-starter, but I think a) the added benefits beyond that have to be extreme and b) they have to be very well regarded academically regardless.

Notre Dame fits both those bills very nicely. Their focus is different than most in the Big Ten, but they are regarded unquestionably as a top academic and athletic school. I can't see the elite Big Ten presidents agreeing to a Florida State though. Oklahoma is a little more iffy, but all else being equal, I think they vote against and only go for them if they feel they really need to make a move at some point (that point is not today).
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2016 11:59 AM by ohio1317.)
02-17-2016 11:58 AM
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Post: #15
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(02-14-2016 09:17 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  The fact that ND was offered a spot 15 years ago, or might have been offered a spot a couple years ago when realignment heated up again, just goes to show that the AAU requirement would not be a show stopper in special circumstances. ND, though, may be the only program that gets a pass.

FSU only begins to get consideration if the B1G has already created a bridge to Florida by getting UVa, UNC, Duke and Georgia Tech. That's not likely to happen unless the ACC is falling apart. If it did happen, though, I still don't think FSU gets an invitation. FSU adds a nice football brand, but the B1G wants the flagship schools and academic powerhouses, and in the State of Florida that's the University of Florida, not FSU. Florida also seems to stretch the B1G geographically too far. Adding FSU might help B1G recruiting in Florida, but the B1G already recruits Florida OK and the addition of Georgia Tech would help in that regard as well. FSU is also not really a long time rival of UVA, UNC, Duke or Georgia Tech. I don't see any overly compelling reason to add them. Not being an AAU school seals their fate.

IF....if the B1G got UVA, North Carolina, Duke, and GIT to come aboard, why would you NOT go after FSU....? That makes absolutely no sense
04-08-2016 09:49 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
The best scenario would be KU, OU, UT, UVA, UNC and ND. Easily the best BBall conference and with OU and UT the best FB conference.

West-UT, OU, KU, NU, Iowa

North- Minny, Wisc, Ill, NW, Purdue

Central-UM, OSU, MSU, ND, IU

East- RU, PSU, Mary, UNC, UVA

The central is just brutal, though you could lose UNC and go after another western team and move ND to the east. Maybe WVU to the central ND to the east.

Not likely to happen at all but would be the best case scenario.
04-08-2016 02:03 PM
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Nebraskafan Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
It use to be that majority of B1G school Presidents wouldn't give the time of the day to a non-AAU school. Times have changed now and the B1G has changed is vision some. They are now focused on expanding into the regions of the country where there are a lot of alumni. There are a lot of B1G alumni along the east coast and that is where Delany wants to expand before any other option.

Notre Dame has always been the special non-AAU school that the B1G has wanted for decades. Hockey already joined as an affiliate member and other Olympic sports at Notre Dame want to join the B1G. The B1G will only do it if the football team comes with.

The B1G is able to expand with powerful universities like John Hopkins and MIT via affiliate membership and that is enough to make them school presidents happy.

For a long time they would never give the time of day a discussion about affiliate memberships. That changed. Now so has only allowing AAU schools into the conference.

This is about becoming national now. No longer is it about regional academic power.
04-09-2016 01:11 PM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
I had thought that the Big Ten and ND were over each other but then the hockey association agreement happened. This tells us: fan emotions are secondary to concerns about travel, budget, etc.

It looks like ND made a rational decision. However, if the day comes that they'll have to move the other sports I wonder how they work around the hardcore donors and alumni who value independence? Would a hypothetical division that includes Nebraska, Florida St, Penn St, plus teams up and down the East coast (based on speculation I read on Twitter) be enough to soothe the hurt feelings of those fans?
04-10-2016 12:03 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #19
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(04-10-2016 12:03 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  I had thought that the Big Ten and ND were over each other but then the hockey association agreement happened. This tells us: fan emotions are secondary to concerns about travel, budget, etc.

It looks like ND made a rational decision. However, if the day comes that they'll have to move the other sports I wonder how they work around the hardcore donors and alumni who value independence? Would a hypothetical division that includes Nebraska, Florida St, Penn St, plus teams up and down the East coast (based on speculation I read on Twitter) be enough to soothe the hurt feelings of those fans?


No. Hell to the hell no.

For instance, I am a third generation ND fan (with a huge 50 year anti-Big Ten bias) who first began to root for the Irish in 1964.

If ND joins the Big Ten for basketball, baseball and (God forbid) football, I will likely stop being a fan. That will be like the American surrender at Bataan for me.

This is from a guy who travels 1,000 miles for ND home games and 7 hours to San Antonio each year to watch ND baseball.

The Big Ten has always been THE enemy to me. Bo, Joe, Woody, you name it, all evil incarnate to me.

As it is, I will no longer follow ND hockey.

And it was the Big Ten who changed its long held position and yielded on the partial membership thing with ND hockey.

And..I still don't like it.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2016 08:38 AM by TerryD.)
04-10-2016 08:36 AM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
In that case, can I have your tickets?
04-11-2016 07:41 AM
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