(09-11-2018 12:17 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As an outsider, I think the B1G could still make moves despite what many posters may say. Maryland was a good pickup even though I think they’re more of an ACC school - that’ll take time. Rutgers was a bad move in my opinion but I understand why. I still think Kansas and Missouri is a possible play. In fact, I think Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas is a possibility. Then the SEC has to take a good hard look at XII leftovers, ACC schools (handling exit fee issues), or the American. The PAC would need to be happy with XII leftovers, Western American schools, and Mountain West callups. The ACC would have West Virginia or American schools. The B1G could consider excusing Rutgers.

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa
Central: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
East: Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

Missouri is under a GOR until 2034. It's part of the SECN contract with ESPN. The only schools on the menu in 2025 (which means they will be in serious talks by 2023) are those in the Big 12 and PAC where the GOR's will be expiring.

So you might want to rethink your approach here. It's also why there is so much Big 12 message board talk about poaching the two Arizona schools (which won't happen).

(09-11-2018 01:18 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-11-2018 12:17 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As an outsider, I think the B1G could still make moves despite what many posters may say. Maryland was a good pickup even though I think they’re more of an ACC school - that’ll take time. Rutgers was a bad move in my opinion but I understand why. I still think Kansas and Missouri is a possible play. In fact, I think Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas is a possibility. Then the SEC has to take a good hard look at XII leftovers, ACC schools (handling exit fee issues), or the American. The PAC would need to be happy with XII leftovers, Western American schools, and Mountain West callups. The ACC would have West Virginia or American schools. The B1G could consider excusing Rutgers.

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa
Central: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
East: Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

Missouri is under a GOR until 2034. It's part of the SECN contract with ESPN. The only schools on the menu in 2025 (which means they will be in serious talks by 2023) are those in the Big 12 and PAC where the GOR's will be expiring.

So you might want to rethink your approach here. It's also why there is so much Big 12 message board talk about poaching the two Arizona schools (which won't happen).

I continue to be befuddled by the number of people who are full speed ahead thinking Missouri is going to the B1G. If that were going to happen, it would have when Nebraska joined. That ship has sailed, not happening.

It's fun to think about and "predict" what's going to happen come 2023/2024, but it sometimes crosses over to that "never gonna happen" realm. TX, OU, KS, WVU, and a couple of other XII schools are debatable as to where they'd want to go. Pondering the future of the PAC is in that group as well. But c'mon folks, Buffalo, Rice, Iowa State, etc... ain't going to the B1G or the SEC.

What people don't get is that the school in question has to add VALUE to the conference. Something they can go to the networks, Amazon, or whoever and say "this school will allow us to make more money". No offense to Iowa State, but they aren't going to make a content provider open up their wallet......

(07-25-2018 11:58 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-25-2018 08:51 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  One of our "friends" at the SEC board thinks that a possible scenario is that OU and UT would be split between the Big Ten and SEC, with the Horns going to the SEC, with Kansas and not Oklahoma. He argues that ties with ESPN - both UT and KU have 3rd-tier deals currently - would draw them into that conference, while Oklahoma has a 3rd-tier deal with Fox Sports.

Personally, I would be happy with KU and OU but what the SEC may decide to do would force radical changes elsewhere. If UT goes SEC with TT then the impact won't be as severe, although that still leaves the entire state of Texas totally in the SEC's hands. UT with KU changes a lot. First, in a content-based world, Kansas basketball would have a higher impact than currently. An SEC with a higher basketball pedigree would mean that competition for eyeballs would be even more intense in the winter months, and that conference had a pretty decent year last season. Couple that with the ACC and if the Big XII is demoted then a lot more basketball talent gets drawn into those two conferences. That is a serious threat to the Big Ten. And that's not factoring if a certain private school in South Bend decides that it should go in full to the ACC as a result of more conference changes.

At the very least the Big Ten should be in background diplomacy with OU for if/when the Big XII breaks apart. OU with CU would be a good counter to the Horns to the SEC. Then, depending on what happens afterwards, offer the California 4.

I do think CU is the stronger move by far for the Big 10 for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that they are half of the bridge to California and Washington. CU offers the larger market by far in a city rich with Big 10 alums, and I don't see a bright future for the PAC period.

They offer very limited market options for the networks. FOX and ESPN really have gotten all they want out of the PAC with a 50/50 lease of the product. I don't see a rationale for either of them to buy a larger % of the PAC than they already have because each only really gets a 7PM slot and a late slot out of that conference and the late slot is usually the better game.

So if the PAC looks for a better deal they are likely going to go with one of the FAANG companies and that could likely be on a school by school basis to appease USC, Stanford, UW, and few other key schools. If that happens it will be the beginning of the end for that conference as it is presently comported. So CU would be a move to make future Big 10 expansion more lucrative.

But on a side note if Texas and Kansas did head to the SEC, I just think it puts more pressure on N.D. when weighing their long range prospects to consider the monetary difference there would be between a Big 10 with Oklahoma and an SEC with Texas and life in the ACC. If I'm the Big 10 I'm liking my leverage to get N.D. as #16. I'd say that OU and N.D. would be just about a perfect way for the Big 10 to finish itself out. Texas gives the SEC everything they want. Kansas would just be a hoops add for Missouri's sake.

The ACC paid out 28 million this year to the Big 10's 38 million. Next year it will be between 29 million and 30 million for the ACC and between 50 million and 51 million for the B1G. 200 million a decade already has to have N.D. twitchy about their future in the ACC. Should Texas head Southeast and OU head Northern Midwest those payouts on content will take a significant step up. We could be approaching 250 million in difference between the SEC/B1G and ACC. With N.D. added to the Big 10 the difference could be between 275 million and 300 million for a decades worth of revenue. At what price in a world with diminishing charitable contributions, flagging state budgets, and thinning Federal grant money is pride worth 275 to 300 million over 10 years?

ND really, really does not want its football program to be in the Big Ten, no matter how much money is involved.

ND would lose millions in alumni donations per year if it runs up the white flag and surrenders the football program to the clutches of the Big Ten.

Those donor threats have been often made and are well understood by the people who run ND and its athletics programs.

Whether people outside of ND believe that the donor revolt issue is real or not, the people who run ND believe it and take it very seriously.

And, after all, they are the decision makers, the ones that count here.

Besides the historical hatred of the Big Ten by ND people and the fear of big donor revolt, ND really likes being in the ACC for its other sports and keeping its football program independent.

ND does not want its football program to be, in their view, "regionalized" by joining the Big Ten, especially if 9 or 10 game conference schedules exist.

Also, there is the ACC exit fee and GOR running through 2036. There is also the separate contract that says if ND football joins a conference before 2037, it must be the ACC.

So...while as a lawyer I understand that all contracts are made to be broken and everything is negotiable, those complications and costs/consequences exist.

The ACC/ESPN connection is only $6.4 million a year to ND. The rest of the TV money comes from NBC.

What ESPN pays to the ACC per year is not really relevant to ND.

I think that any ND football to Big Ten scenario is a pipe dream, even if the Big Ten went to 20 teams and acquired Texas or Oklahoma.

I also think that the Holy Cross Fathers who run ND are currently not very interested in its football program being/remaining elite. They are content with 8, 9 or so win seasons and having the lacrosse, hockey and women's basketball teams compete for titles instead.

They have historically never been comfortable with ND football success and would be happy to have it again de-emphasized a bit.

I think that the Good Fathers would not mind staying in the ACC even if that reined in the title and playoff hopes/chances of the football program a bit.

So, the TV money disparity between the proposed supercharged SEC/Big Ten versus ND/ACC may not have the type of serious impact on ND that others may think.

IF TV money were so important to ND, why did it pick the ACC over the Big Ten in 2012?

P.S. ND will only join the ACC in football if legally, a P4, champs only playoff scenario is established.

Otherwise, ND football will not likely join any conference before 2037.


P.P.S. "Flagging state budgets" are largely irrelevant to a private school like ND.

I don't think that a financially strapped State of Indiana would have that much impact on ND.

Also, if ND had to join a conference for football, I think that it would be happier in choosing the ACC over the Big Ten. ND would be cool with whatever bump in TV money that would bring.

Just my opinions as a 55 year or so long ND fan (age 61) who has a passing interest in CR.

(09-11-2018 11:15 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-25-2018 11:58 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-25-2018 08:51 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  One of our "friends" at the SEC board thinks that a possible scenario is that OU and UT would be split between the Big Ten and SEC, with the Horns going to the SEC, with Kansas and not Oklahoma. He argues that ties with ESPN - both UT and KU have 3rd-tier deals currently - would draw them into that conference, while Oklahoma has a 3rd-tier deal with Fox Sports.

Personally, I would be happy with KU and OU but what the SEC may decide to do would force radical changes elsewhere. If UT goes SEC with TT then the impact won't be as severe, although that still leaves the entire state of Texas totally in the SEC's hands. UT with KU changes a lot. First, in a content-based world, Kansas basketball would have a higher impact than currently. An SEC with a higher basketball pedigree would mean that competition for eyeballs would be even more intense in the winter months, and that conference had a pretty decent year last season. Couple that with the ACC and if the Big XII is demoted then a lot more basketball talent gets drawn into those two conferences. That is a serious threat to the Big Ten. And that's not factoring if a certain private school in South Bend decides that it should go in full to the ACC as a result of more conference changes.

At the very least the Big Ten should be in background diplomacy with OU for if/when the Big XII breaks apart. OU with CU would be a good counter to the Horns to the SEC. Then, depending on what happens afterwards, offer the California 4.

I do think CU is the stronger move by far for the Big 10 for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that they are half of the bridge to California and Washington. CU offers the larger market by far in a city rich with Big 10 alums, and I don't see a bright future for the PAC period.

They offer very limited market options for the networks. FOX and ESPN really have gotten all they want out of the PAC with a 50/50 lease of the product. I don't see a rationale for either of them to buy a larger % of the PAC than they already have because each only really gets a 7PM slot and a late slot out of that conference and the late slot is usually the better game.

So if the PAC looks for a better deal they are likely going to go with one of the FAANG companies and that could likely be on a school by school basis to appease USC, Stanford, UW, and few other key schools. If that happens it will be the beginning of the end for that conference as it is presently comported. So CU would be a move to make future Big 10 expansion more lucrative.

But on a side note if Texas and Kansas did head to the SEC, I just think it puts more pressure on N.D. when weighing their long range prospects to consider the monetary difference there would be between a Big 10 with Oklahoma and an SEC with Texas and life in the ACC. If I'm the Big 10 I'm liking my leverage to get N.D. as #16. I'd say that OU and N.D. would be just about a perfect way for the Big 10 to finish itself out. Texas gives the SEC everything they want. Kansas would just be a hoops add for Missouri's sake.

The ACC paid out 28 million this year to the Big 10's 38 million. Next year it will be between 29 million and 30 million for the ACC and between 50 million and 51 million for the B1G. 200 million a decade already has to have N.D. twitchy about their future in the ACC. Should Texas head Southeast and OU head Northern Midwest those payouts on content will take a significant step up. We could be approaching 250 million in difference between the SEC/B1G and ACC. With N.D. added to the Big 10 the difference could be between 275 million and 300 million for a decades worth of revenue. At what price in a world with diminishing charitable contributions, flagging state budgets, and thinning Federal grant money is pride worth 275 to 300 million over 10 years?

ND really, really does not want its football program to be in the Big Ten, no matter how much money is involved.

ND would lose millions in alumni donations per year if it runs up the white flag and surrenders the football program to the clutches of the Big Ten.

Those donor threats have been often made and are well understood by the people who run ND and its athletics programs.

Whether people outside of ND believe that the donor revolt issue is real or not, the people who run ND believe it and take it very seriously.

And, after all, they are the decision makers, the ones that count here.

Besides the historical hatred of the Big Ten by ND people and the fear of big donor revolt, ND really likes being in the ACC for its other sports and keeping its football program independent.

ND does not want its football program to be, in their view, "regionalized" by joining the Big Ten, especially if 9 or 10 game conference schedules exist.

Also, there is the ACC exit fee and GOR running through 2036. There is also the separate contract that says if ND football joins a conference before 2037, it must be the ACC.

So...while as a lawyer I understand that all contracts are made to be broken and everything is negotiable, those complications and costs/consequences exist.

The ACC/ESPN connection is only $6.4 million a year to ND. The rest of the TV money comes from NBC.

What ESPN pays to the ACC per year is not really relevant to ND.

I think that any ND football to Big Ten scenario is a pipe dream, even if the Big Ten went to 20 teams and acquired Texas or Oklahoma.

I also think that the Holy Cross Fathers who run ND are currently not very interested in its football program being/remaining elite. They are content with 8, 9 or so win seasons and having the lacrosse, hockey and women's basketball teams compete for titles instead.

They have historically never been comfortable with ND football success and would be happy to have it again de-emphasized a bit.

I think that the Good Fathers would not mind staying in the ACC even if that reined in the title and playoff hopes/chances of the football program a bit.

So, the TV money disparity between the proposed supercharged SEC/Big Ten versus ND/ACC may not have the type of serious impact on ND that others may think.

IF TV money were so important to ND, why did it pick the ACC over the Big Ten in 2012?

P.S. ND will only join the ACC in football if legally, a P4, champs only playoff scenario is established.

Otherwise, ND football will not likely join any conference before 2037.


P.P.S. "Flagging state budgets" are largely irrelevant to a private school like ND.

I don't think that a financially strapped State of Indiana would have that much impact on ND.

Also, if ND had to join a conference for football, I think that it would be happier in choosing the ACC over the Big Ten. ND would be cool with whatever bump in TV money that would bring.

Just my opinions as a 55 year or so long ND fan (age 61) who has a passing interest in CR.

Shave and a haircut is still, "TWO BITS!":cheers:

And on cue is today's Forbes write-up on football based, ND donor contributions from the realignment board:


"The one outlier in the conference talk is, of course, the football independent Notre Dame, which ranks seventh with team revenues of $112 million. Although the Irish don't get conference money for football, the team still receives a reported $15 million per year from NBC for broadcast rights to its home games. What's more, Notre Dame's athletic department doesn't even report the vast majority of contributions tied to the football team's ticket lottery, since most of those are made directly to the university."

I was thinking about an OU & KS addition to the B1G. I don't think OU will come to the B1G with just Kansas but if OU was willing to come with Kansas, I sure wouldn't do it if I was them unless the B1G rearranged the divisions. If I was OU I would want PSU and some of the better recruiting areas in the B1G footprint(even though they are limited). I would want something like this:
division 1: PSU, OU, Neb., Ia., Ks., Northwestern, Maryland & Rutgers
division 2: OSU, Mich., Wisky, MSU, Mn., Illinois, Indiana & Purdue

I'm not sure PSU will like the idea of being in a division without OSU and I'm not sure they would want that as a protected rivalry game or would think that could make the schedules uneven. But I think OU would not be setting themselves up in a good situation if they accepted an east/west setup unless Texas comes.

Ohio State is the only school Penn State has played uninterrupted since joining the Big Ten so it's a big deal. Maryland is the only Big Ten school played more often. From Penn State's point of view, the OSU rivalry is a must.

I think Kansas would be better in the SEC to reunite with Missouri and help assimilate them both, provide an easy win for the football schools who could get a rest from the tougher conference games, and upgrade basketball. Texas would be the logical pair but I don't know how likely it is. I'm not sure their ego could allow them to follow in A&M's footsteps whether it is real or imagined.

(09-13-2018 09:21 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Ohio State is the only school Penn State has played uninterrupted since joining the Big Ten so it's a big deal. Maryland is the only Big Ten school played more often. From Penn State's point of view, the OSU rivalry is a must.

I think Kansas would be better in the SEC to reunite with Missouri and help assimilate them both, provide an easy win for the football schools who could get a rest from the tougher conference games, and upgrade basketball. Texas would be the logical pair but I don't know how likely it is. I'm not sure their ego could allow them to follow in A&M's footsteps whether it is real or imagined.

I'm curious as a PSU fan do you think they would take the setup if the OSU game was protected each year as a rivalry game?

(09-13-2018 10:18 PM)Win5002 Wrote:  

(09-13-2018 09:21 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Ohio State is the only school Penn State has played uninterrupted since joining the Big Ten so it's a big deal. Maryland is the only Big Ten school played more often. From Penn State's point of view, the OSU rivalry is a must.

I think Kansas would be better in the SEC to reunite with Missouri and help assimilate them both, provide an easy win for the football schools who could get a rest from the tougher conference games, and upgrade basketball. Texas would be the logical pair but I don't know how likely it is. I'm not sure their ego could allow them to follow in A&M's footsteps whether it is real or imagined.

I'm curious as a PSU fan do you think they would take the setup if the OSU game was protected each year as a rivalry game?

I think PSU would accept this if the OSU game was protected. Penn State would be a little upset losing Michigan and Michigan State but replacing those with Nebraska and Oklahoma would be better as far as brands go. Kansas does nothing for Penn State. Iowa and Indiana are probably a wash. Same for adding Northwestern.

(09-11-2018 06:51 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(09-11-2018 01:18 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-11-2018 12:17 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As an outsider, I think the B1G could still make moves despite what many posters may say. Maryland was a good pickup even though I think they’re more of an ACC school - that’ll take time. Rutgers was a bad move in my opinion but I understand why. I still think Kansas and Missouri is a possible play. In fact, I think Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas is a possibility. Then the SEC has to take a good hard look at XII leftovers, ACC schools (handling exit fee issues), or the American. The PAC would need to be happy with XII leftovers, Western American schools, and Mountain West callups. The ACC would have West Virginia or American schools. The B1G could consider excusing Rutgers.

West: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa
Central: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
East: Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers

Missouri is under a GOR until 2034. It's part of the SECN contract with ESPN. The only schools on the menu in 2025 (which means they will be in serious talks by 2023) are those in the Big 12 and PAC where the GOR's will be expiring.

So you might want to rethink your approach here. It's also why there is so much Big 12 message board talk about poaching the two Arizona schools (which won't happen).

I continue to be befuddled by the number of people who are full speed ahead thinking Missouri is going to the B1G. If that were going to happen, it would have when Nebraska joined. That ship has sailed, not happening.

It's fun to think about and "predict" what's going to happen come 2023/2024, but it sometimes crosses over to that "never gonna happen" realm. TX, OU, KS, WVU, and a couple of other XII schools are debatable as to where they'd want to go. Pondering the future of the PAC is in that group as well. But c'mon folks, Buffalo, Rice, Iowa State, etc... ain't going to the B1G or the SEC.

What people don't get is that the school in question has to add VALUE to the conference. Something they can go to the networks, Amazon, or whoever and say "this school will allow us to make more money". No offense to Iowa State, but they aren't going to make a content provider open up their wallet......

Sixteen is not a magical number, but if the SEC added Texas or Oklahoma and the Big 10 added the other then besides a traveling companion to even things out there are no fairly contiguous schools left that could truly add value enough to either conference to merit inclusion short of a partial PAC merger with the Big 10 which is probably a farfetched concept in and of itself.

There is no ACC school that could add value to a 55 million dollar per school media deal.

There are no other Big 12 schools that add that kind of value either.

So if SEC or Big 10 expansion happen with either OU or UT the golden ticket will be the travel companion's spot and realignment for either of our conferences would be over at that point.

Mountain of salt and all that....

Quote:Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
This is going to take a bit. Plenty of tweets incoming. This info comes from BTM on Saturday night. (Dinner-Sushi) BTM is a Big Ten Source who has broken multiple local and national stories though us on Twitter and @Minnesota247

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Again..all info is coming from BTM. From Big Ten perspective. It’s real...it’s big.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
I shared some of this info before today with my good friend @Expansion_Crush. I was hoping to use different platform to distribute this info. Story for another day.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
FOX Sports (21st Century FOX) who owns 51% of Big Ten Network and holds 50% of Big Ten Tier 1/2 Contract from 2017-2022 + Big Ten Football CCG is overjoyed with the content and ratings Big Ten have delivered in first 2 years of said contract.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
It can’t be undersold the relationship FOX Sports and Big Ten now has..the relationship is cemented in the fact Mark Silverman holds both position as head of Big Ten Network & FOX Sports. I needed to explain all of this to give context to what BTM just told us Saturday night.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
FOX Sports gave a massive contract to Big Ten Network for Tier 1&2 content + CCG + Basketball..etc. The TV AD rates FOX Sports have been able to pass on to its customers..well... FOX Sports is all in on Big Ten Live Sport Content now and into the future. ALL IN.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
FOX Sports & Big Ten want more. Working in tandem they want more. They believe there is an opportunity to gain more content for next Media contract for both to succeed in tandem. Realignment begins with FOX Sports & Big Ten in their attempt to gain more value.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
According to BTM the Big Ten Conference will make Oklahoma & Texas their main targets for expansion for 2024/2025. Both of them. Yes, Texas. Let me explain as best I can what BTM told us on Saturday night.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
There is so much to discuss. It would be easier and cleaner if I could do it on a podcast. But I will give it my best shot here on Twitter. BTM went into great detail. Tremendous detail.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
First, let’s discuss why Big Ten believes their is an opportunity to add Oklahoma & Texas in 2024 & 2025. It starts with the Big 12 Conference.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Choke points. Choke points to successfully deliver live content comes in 3 different forms. 1) Financing 2) Content 3) Distribution Big 12 does not have a Content issue, nor a Financing issue. But it will have a distribution issue in 2024.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
The same reasons why Big 12 could not get an interested distributor in a Conference Network(with or without Texas) is the same reason they won’t get near the same contract for Tier 1&2 Content in their next negotiations compared to SEC & Big Ten. The money gap grows even larger

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
This is what Big Ten plans to do...already doing. Big Ten Conference, in tandem with FOX Sports, will/have made it known to Oklahoma what their intentions are through 3rd parties. Oklahoma is soon to be negotiationing (with who is unknown at this time) a new 3rd Tier Contract

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Big Ten Conference wanted to get out in front of Oklahoma...show them what’s at stake when negotiationing their 3rd Tier Contract. In other words...make it a short term contract Oklahoma because we are willing to make it worthwhile.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Big Ten could not wait to make their intentions known. Big Ten could not wait for 2-3 more years to make plans and act on them. They needed to give OU a road map. And secure place to land once Big 12 GOR is up.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Before I get on to Texas. Let me explain the words Delany expressed today. It was told to us on Saturday night..sure enough..well. Big Ten & ACC will try to push P5 reforms through to make it possible to eliminate Round Robin play in 1 Conference. Let me explain.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Today it’s impossible for SEC, Big Ten, ACC & PAC to lump all their schools into just 1 big division/conference because they would need to play round robin schedule. Delany will push for this reform.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
In public Delany and the Big Ten profess to still support divisions. But in private they would encourage the ability for a conference to line up all of their 12-14-16 schools in one division/conference in Football Conference play. But it’s for reasons you might not think of..

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Yes, in theory securing “2 best teams” in CCG after Conference play would enhance your Conference ability to gain a spot in College Football Playoffs. But it’s more than..much more than CFP significance.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
1) If Big Ten was allowed to have all their schools in 1 Division/Conference with no Round Robin rule it would increase their value to TV/Media even more than it is now. I’m going to get back to this point. 2) Expansion of Conference..expanding value of Conference much easier

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Why Texas now? For those of you who have followed BTM over the years and seen him break the news of Notre Dame Hockey to Big Ten..Fleck to Minnesota..etc.. You know he has always stated Texas will not be the target for Big Ten. Things have changed.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Let’s first take it from the perspective of Big Ten Conference. It’s obvious why Big Ten would want Texas. We are not going to waste time discussing the why..but let’s discuss why Big Ten believes they have an opportunity for Texas to actually say yes.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Texas’s options are incredibly limited if you are to believe Oklahoma will leave the Big 12 after 2025. BTM have stated many times it’s the belief of those within the Big Ten and other P5 programs that Oklahoma will leave Big 12 after 2025.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
Playing Football as an Independent is pretty much is impossible for Texas. Scheduling...and yes, distribution reasons are the major road blocks. Everyone in Texas Leadership will tell you the same thing.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
PAC is not a viable option for those in Texas’s leadership. Texas has studied this option for years. For them, above all else, they don’t want to travel West for all their Athletic Programs. Travel is a roadblock much more than PAC’s current issues.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
SEC is not seen as a viable option for Texas. Boosters & Faculty of the University of Texas would revolt. Texas is not following Texas A&M to SEC. This is Big Ten perspective.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
Now for the last road block LHN...owner by Disney. According to BTM this road block is no more. Nobody now takes this as a serious road block if Texas wants to make a move. There is a contract until 2031 buts it’s not ironclad like the Big 12 GOR of 2025.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
If LHN had any truly significant money value to Disney it would be a different story. But LHN is a losing proposition to Disney..and loser to Texas for exposure. LHN is no longer a log in the road..merely a twig (BTM words)

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
TV Media Contract which Big Ten could say to potential distributor (FOX Sports + Amazon?..CBS?) you will have Ohio State play Texas at least 2 times in 4 years..OU play Penn State 2 times in 4 years..(1 Conference - no Round Robin) Is Delany’s goal.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
Now..will Oklahoma and Texas choose to realign themselves into the Big Ten Conference in 2024/2025? We don’t know. But for the first time BTM has information which leads him to an undeniable truth. Oklahoma & Texas are the targets. Yes, Texas

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
It’s not going to take long to figure out where this is all going. Watch Oklahoma. Watch them. When Oklahoma signs new 3rd Tier Contract and if it’s short term...does not take them past year 2025... Brace for impact.

shoobie doobie doowah‏ @Expansion_Crush 4h4 hours ago
Texas and Oklahoma will be a package deal

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @Expansion_Crush
I never though we would get to this point. Never. But here we are.

shoobie doobie doowah‏ @Expansion_Crush 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @flugempire
Thanks for the detailed update! What do you think Texas's price is? 60 to 70 million a year?

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 3h3 hours ago
Real number will be... This is what you get for 1/2 of Big Ten Tier 1/2 package with FOX Sports (2nd half would be matched by FOX Sports or ESPN or ...etc) + BTN $ vs what you think/hope you will get with ? after Big 12 GOR is up and Big 12 negotiating with ?+? Gap will be real.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
If you need something tangible to sink your teeth into when trying to figure out if Big Ten is really planning on being aggressive in next Media negotiations/Realignment..just look at the end date of last contract. 2022.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
Remember back at last Big Ten Media negotiations when out of nowhere FOX Sports got 1/2 of Big Ten Tier 1&2 Contract..gave Big Ten massive deal? Why did Big Ten want deal to end 2022? Why not have contract go to 2028?..2030?..when in uncertain times of live media distribution?

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 3h3 hours ago
Positioning. By 2022 Big Ten and their partner FOX Sports will know the Realignment landscape (wants and needs of Oklahoma & Texas) enough to be able to act and give best effort to land both before Big 12 GOR ends in June 30th, 2025.

Kirk Richardson‏ @kirksreview 4h4 hours ago
Did BTM talk about whether B1G thinks Oklahoma is leaning one way or the other in 2025 - B1G, SEC, staying B12. Logic tells me they will align a short-term 3rd tier contract regardless. Gives them max flexibility. Thoughts?

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @kirksreview
SEC is the competition for Oklahoma. According to BTM Oklahoma will leave Big 12. SEC option is viable according to Big Ten perspective. It’s another reason why Texas is being targeted by Big Ten because Big Ten perspective is SEC is not an option for Texas.

MJ‏ @MinnySeminole 2h2 hours ago
MJ Retweeted Greg Flugaur

This isn’t possible without Tech or OSU partnered up w Texas and OU respectively per most recent state legislatures

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Replying to @MinnySeminole
It’s the Big 12 GOR and bylaws which keeps Texas & Oklahoma in Big 12,not legislators of both respective states. Once GOR has run out the decision makers of both universities, BOR & Presidents, will have the ability to make a choice without running to Legislators for go ahead.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Replying to @MinnySeminole
State Legislators will have influence, and will flex them just as boosters. But both Universities have autonomy to decide its Athletic Contracts..which Conference Affiliation is basically your biggest one of them all.

Kirk Richardson‏ @kirksreview 1h1 hour ago
Texas will have a more difficult path navigating in-state politics than Oklahoma. Not saying a move to B1G can't/won't happen, but there are a lot of interests at stake that ride UT's coattails. Ultimately, they may have to stay and lead a new B12 w/o Oklahoma. It's complicated.

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @kirksreview @MinnySeminole
It’s is complicated. Made a little easier with Texas A&M departure of Big 12 against wishes of legislators in Austin who were Pro University of Texas & Texas Tech. But yes, it’s complicated. OU’s current President does not have the “ ties that bind” with OSU. Again, complicated.

Andy‏ @ABfromthe513 1h1 hour ago
Fox is invested in B12 currently. Presumably their B12 deal will be or close to expiring if okla and Texas are flipping to B10? Or would fox work with B12 to identify backfill candidates to fill okla and Texas spots?

Greg Flugaur‏ @flugempire 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @ABfromthe513
Not sure what FOX would do if/when OU & UT depart for Big Ten. But FOX will let (if they haven’t already in some manner) OU & UT know that Big Ten for 2023 and beyond will get FOX Sports Tier 1/2 offer >>>> FOX Sports offer for Big 12 Tier 1/2 content beyond 2025 Big 12 GOR.

The new thing right now is the possibility of doing away with divisions altogether. What and how that would be done is unknown as of this time. Having no division might make the transition a little easier. It would also make a KU/OU pairing much easier as well. Travel is what it is.

Previous to last tweet makes a good point: what happens then to the Big 12? Could they reload and still have a seat at the CFP table? I would think that would help ease any upward pressure from the G5 if they can elevate a few from that group. Think UCF, Cincinnati, Connecticut, BYU or Houston.

What I'm having trouble figuring out is how FOX might pull something like this off when they've sold away most of their assets to be less burdened.

(12-06-2018 03:06 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Mountain of salt and all that....


The new thing right now is the possibility of doing away with divisions altogether. What and how that would be done is unknown as of this time. Having no division might make the transition a little easier. It would also make a KU/OU pairing much easier as well. Travel is what it is.

Previous to last tweet makes a good point: what happens then to the Big 12? Could they reload and still have a seat at the CFP table? I would think that would help ease any upward pressure from the G5 if they can elevate a few from that group. Think UCF, Cincinnati, Connecticut, BYU or Houston.

What I'm having trouble figuring out is how FOX might pull something like this off when they've sold away most of their assets to be less burdened.

I follow Greg on twitter and saw this as well.

Considering the what he says happens is just as possible as it not happening......

It's still a fun read.

The main roadblock to everything won't be the SEC or the B1G,, but the PAC.

IF negotiations for media rights $$$ seem to be leaving the PAC in the dust, don't be surprised is some of their members start looking.

If, say for argument, the 2 Arizona schools and Utah begin asking "what's the neighborhood like" in the XII, it could save them and doom the PAC and might be enough to keep TX & OU right where they're at.

I can't see anyone heading to the PAC, but I think it's more than possible some of the PAC schools could be antsy....

Could this happen? Of course. Could it not happen? Of course.

As soon as a commisioner or AD from any school or conference makes a statement, here comes Flugaur with his tweets. It's all his theory with the "BTM" in place to make it look better.

I guess he's interesting but just a bit to predictable.

Just my 2 cents worth!

(12-06-2018 08:23 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Could this happen? Of course. Could it not happen? Of course.

As soon as a commisioner or AD from any school or conference makes a statement, here comes Flugaur with his tweets. It's all his theory with the "BTM" in place to make it look better.

I guess he's interesting but just a bit to predictable.

Just my 2 cents worth!

It made it to OUInsider so it must be true!

https://247sports.com/college/oklahoma/A...125965141/

(12-06-2018 07:24 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(12-06-2018 03:06 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Mountain of salt and all that....


The new thing right now is the possibility of doing away with divisions altogether. What and how that would be done is unknown as of this time. Having no division might make the transition a little easier. It would also make a KU/OU pairing much easier as well. Travel is what it is.

Previous to last tweet makes a good point: what happens then to the Big 12? Could they reload and still have a seat at the CFP table? I would think that would help ease any upward pressure from the G5 if they can elevate a few from that group. Think UCF, Cincinnati, Connecticut, BYU or Houston.

What I'm having trouble figuring out is how FOX might pull something like this off when they've sold away most of their assets to be less burdened.

I follow Greg on twitter and saw this as well.

Considering the what he says happens is just as possible as it not happening......

It's still a fun read.

The main roadblock to everything won't be the SEC or the B1G,, but the PAC.

IF negotiations for media rights $$$ seem to be leaving the PAC in the dust, don't be surprised is some of their members start looking.

If, say for argument, the 2 Arizona schools and Utah begin asking "what's the neighborhood like" in the XII, it could save them and doom the PAC and might be enough to keep TX & OU right where they're at.

I can't see anyone heading to the PAC, but I think it's more than possible some of the PAC schools could be antsy....

You could make 4 strong leagues, keep CFB a national sport, and build a profitable 4th conference network that FOX could get involved with if the PAC was divided in a strategic manner. Any main PAC rivalries that would get separated could play OOC like many SEC & ACC schools do.

If Nebraska was inclined to go back to a revamped Big 12 and the B1G took USC, Stanford, Wash., Oregon, and Arizona that would put them at 18.

Then the Big 12 add Nebraska, Colorado, UCLA, Cal, ASU & Utah that would bring them to 16. The B12 wouldn't want WSU & OSU but with that 16 could take those two schools probably if that's what it required to get it done.

USC vs UCLA, Cal vs Stanford, Az vs ASU could all take place OOC.

Interesting enough the B1G adding USC & Stanford could give the B1G one last strong argument for ND to join. A league that had USC, Stanford, Mich., MSU & Purdue in it would be a pretty strong argument for ND. What was that idea about a single conference standings? That would seem to work really well for ND in the B1G with these teams.

This "new" information isn't telling us anything that isn't obvious. You'd have to be crazy not to go after Oklahoma and Texas, the two biggest brands that will be available.

Yeah, its the obvious first choice for every conference out there.

(12-06-2018 08:23 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Could this happen? Of course. Could it not happen? Of course.

As soon as a commisioner or AD from any school or conference makes a statement, here comes Flugaur with his tweets. It's all his theory with the "BTM" in place to make it look better.

I guess he's interesting but just a bit to predictable.

Just my 2 cents worth!

Like so many others he needs the twitter hits to drive his ad revenue for those who subscribe to his tweets. Brett McMurphy alluded to the divisionless format on twitter over an hour before Fluguar made his long tweet.

These guys are like politicians and professional wrestlers all tied in to one. Showmanship and Spin are married and none of it for truth.

(12-06-2018 06:25 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  This "new" information isn't telling us anything that isn't obvious. You'd have to be crazy not to go after Oklahoma and Texas, the two biggest brands that will be available.

You're right that it isn't anything "new." Kent Sterling talked about the possibility back in 2013.

http://kentsterling.com/2013/04/11/big-t...e-big-ten/ (by the way, notice the now laugh-worthy timeline he used of within three years from that article)

And I'm sure there was speculation about this type of move well before that.

It's just that it's kinda amusing that Flug kinda backed off on his insistence that it's to be KU/OU. Well, yes, shoot for the moon first and then settle for the best possible deal. But I suspect it's more for clicks.

He's there for sideshow entertainment.

Oh, and he's also gotten the attention of John E. Hoover:

Quote:John E. Hoover
Verified account
@johnehoover Dec 6
John E. Hoover Retweeted Greg Flugaur
Read this thread on #BoomerSooner & #HookEm going to the Big Ten Conference. @FranchiseOK listeners know I’ve been saying the exact same thing for three years. B1G will be interested. Big 12’s only hope may be another Hail Mary.

Greg Flugaur@flugempire Dec 6
Replying to @johnehoover @FranchiseOK
There is no question there have been some who were ahead of our BTM, including yourself.

In the past BTM (source) would not include Texas as part of B1G targets for 2024/2025 expansion.

But things have changed.
It’s up to OU & UT of course..but they are now a packaged target.

John E. Hoover
Verified account
@johnehoover Dec 6
Replying to @flugempire @FranchiseOK
Yep. Texas is a hard sell for some because it comes with baggage. But it’s also a cash cow. (No pun intended. Well, maybe a little one.) It makes sense to pursue them, and hard. If Rutgers/Maryland gives B1G New York/Washington subscribers, Horns being the whole state of Texas.

Justin Braun @jbraun00 Dec 6
Don’t wait until 2024, grant of rights be damned! We need out of this conference.

John E. Hoover
Verified account
@johnehoover Dec 6
Replying to @jbraun00 @FranchiseOK
I’ve been predicting 2022. I’ll stand by that as B1G negotiations really heat up by then.

Hot Stove Dougie@snoopdoug44 Dec 6
And what would that Hail Mary be for the Big 12?

John E. Hoover
Verified account
@johnehoover Dec 6
Replying to @snoopdoug44 @FranchiseOK
Unsure. David Boren threw most of them but he’s retired. Maybe an aggressive expansion to Ariz/ASU or UCF/USF? Early renegotiation w ESPN/Fox? A blockbuster deal w Amazon Prime or Netflix? Something like that.

Hot Stove Dougie@snoopdoug44 Dec 6
John, what’s your best guess where OU In 2025?

John E. Hoover
Verified account
@johnehoover Dec 6
Replying to @snoopdoug44 @FranchiseOK
Big Ten

Between Oklahoma and Texas, I think OU is far more likely to come to the Big Ten. I'd be tempted to stop at 15 if Texas doesn't come along. Three divisions of five with either the top two division leaders in the championship game or rework rules to have semi-finals and have the three division leaders and a wildcard.

West:
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Iowa
Minnesota
Wisconsin

Central:
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Michigan/Michigan State

East:
Michigan State/Michigan
Ohio State
Penn State
Maryland
Rutgers

I wasn't sure how to split the Michigan schools. On one hand, putting Michigan into the Central would give it the only blue blood school compared to the other stacked divisions. But putting in Michigan State would even out the division more because Michigan would win it more frequently than Michigan State and give more marketable matchups for networks as they'd play Penn State annually (blue blood vs. blue blood is better than blue blood vs. the next step down). We'll see what Brohm does at Purdue and Northwestern isn't a pushover. Of course, there would be some locked non-division games. This will also let the conference to go back to 8 conference games.