(06-24-2016 04:52 PM)john01992 Wrote: Mach-The atlantic charter applying to russia went out the window the second they invaded poland
Harmon-"letting those states fend for themselves" didn't work well for us the last time we did that.
It didn't work because the Axis powers were stupid enough to deal war.
the axis were stupid enough to do that because we didn't do anything when they annexed earlier territories and thought they would get away with it again.
So they thought we wouldn't fight back after a declaration of war? Lol.
I doubt Putin will make the same mistake and if he does, I expect you to sign up to defend those poor little countries
someone doesn't know about Munich and yet he is commenting on the origins of WWII. all while using the term "axis powers" but stating that it is 100% exclusive to japan and doesn't want to bring up germany and how that war started. and to top it off he thinks we should not honor our nato agreements.
this ER is exactly what I'm talking about. it's freaking pathetic.
(06-24-2016 04:41 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote: Which should be ignored. Let those states defend themselves. It is not our concern.
Treaty obligations. If Putin goes for those then its the real deal.
Those treaties should never have been signed. Estonia doesn't contain any American interests.
Nevertheless they were.
Then break them. This isn't a morality test.
simple and well stated.....
and estonia finally bought their way to independence via another form of laundering......that's why the leftovers are collectively shite=ing their brit(che)s now....
it's pretty damned funny watching the libtards defend the criminals across the board then asking for handi-wipes when it doesn't work in 'their' favor.....
today has been more fonzies than a rapture in any yolktug toke in a juke-joint-hot-box....
unfortunately, dipshites think this is part of 'that' battle...
I'm not running for office....I don't give two fks after 4:20 and and finished with pc 24/7 moons ago
(06-24-2016 04:33 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote: So what if Russia invades the Baltics?
If there are Balkan states seriously worried about that, they should join NATO and take part financially and participation wise in their Russian defense. If NATO won't accept them, well then that says a lot doesn't it?
He said "Baltic" states-meaning Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. All 3 are NATO and EU members.
As for the Balkans, Bulgaria, Romania, Alabania, Croatia, Slovenia and most recently, Montenegro are NATO members. Macedonia and Bosnia-Hercegovina are on a path to membership.
GTS should really stick to talking about tech issues.
My point about NATO remains. My phrasing was deliberate because I'm too lazy to look up the full NATO membership roster. Which was mostly because I was too busy wallowing in leftist schadenfreude from the Brexit results.
(06-24-2016 04:33 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote: So what if Russia invades the Baltics?
If there are Balkan states seriously worried about that, they should join NATO and take part financially and participation wise in their Russian defense. If NATO won't accept them, well then that says a lot doesn't it?
He said "Baltic" states-meaning Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. All 3 are NATO and EU members.
As for the Balkans, Bulgaria, Romania, Alabania, Croatia, Slovenia and most recently, Montenegro are NATO members. Macedonia and Bosnia-Hercegovina are on a path to membership.
GTS should really stick to talking about tech issues.
My point about NATO remains. My phrasing was deliberate because I'm too lazy to look up the full NATO membership roster. Which was mostly because I was too busy wallowing in leftist schadenfreude from the Brexit results.
what exactly was your point in the first place? this isn't about being lazy. this is about you commenting on a topic when it was painfully obvious that your knowledge on said topic was quite limited. for me personally, I don't need to look things up on a map to realize estonia, latvia, and lithuania are NATO members and that belarus and ukraine are not.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2016 09:42 PM by john01992.)
(06-24-2016 04:33 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote: So what if Russia invades the Baltics?
If there are Balkan states seriously worried about that, they should join NATO and take part financially and participation wise in their Russian defense. If NATO won't accept them, well then that says a lot doesn't it?
He said "Baltic" states-meaning Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. All 3 are NATO and EU members.
As for the Balkans, Bulgaria, Romania, Alabania, Croatia, Slovenia and most recently, Montenegro are NATO members. Macedonia and Bosnia-Hercegovina are on a path to membership.
GTS should really stick to talking about tech issues.
My point about NATO remains. My phrasing was deliberate because I'm too lazy to look up the full NATO membership roster. Which was mostly because I was too busy wallowing in leftist schadenfreude from the Brexit results.
hint for the dense: pig vomit is all they understand.....double ewe eeNNNNNNN b c.......
(06-24-2016 05:11 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: If there are Balkan states seriously worried about that, they should join NATO and take part financially and participation wise in their Russian defense. If NATO won't accept them, well then that says a lot doesn't it?
He said "Baltic" states-meaning Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. All 3 are NATO and EU members.
As for the Balkans, Bulgaria, Romania, Alabania, Croatia, Slovenia and most recently, Montenegro are NATO members. Macedonia and Bosnia-Hercegovina are on a path to membership.
GTS should really stick to talking about tech issues.
My point about NATO remains. My phrasing was deliberate because I'm too lazy to look up the full NATO membership roster. Which was mostly because I was too busy wallowing in leftist schadenfreude from the Brexit results.
what exactly was your point in the first place? this isn't about being lazy. this is about you commenting on a topic when it was painfully obvious that your knowledge on said topic was quite limited. for me personally, I don't need to look things up on a map to realize estonia, latvia, and lithuania are NATO members and that belarus and ukraine are not.
that all means what in scope....
they got hung out to dry and don't have the resources to survive on their own????
awwwwwwwwwwwwww
the hidden privileged will have to come out to play again and renegotiate?
awwwwwwwwwwwww2
ya just don't screw with people's back pocket and back them in a corner.....they'll fight back and fk 'em the little tightie whiteys up the arse every time.....
it parallels the fight we once had to gain independance.....or did you miss that class...
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2016 09:54 PM by stinkfist.)
NATO should have disbanded a long time ago. It served its purpose but that purpose ended in the early 90's. It's being repurposed just like every other gov't program that outlives its usefulness.
(06-24-2016 11:14 PM)miko33 Wrote: NATO should have disbanded a long time ago. It served its purpose but that purpose ended in the early 90's. It's being repurposed just like every other gov't program that outlives its usefulness.
Ukraine, georgia. how many times has russia attempted to antagonize western countries? not to mention their propping up the syrian regime.
the stars have no relation to the number of members.
thank you for that 1st grade equation.....as always, you whiffed a simple point....
hell, if you polled 1000 dems and asked them what xenophobia meant w/o the usage of their hand-held device, 1000 would reply, "isn't that some type of musical thingy?"
you're clueless.....and I'm a racist now.....
hooty whooooooooooooooo
lick it and suck on this...this is right up your alley....very nsfw....
(06-24-2016 11:14 PM)miko33 Wrote: NATO should have disbanded a long time ago. It served its purpose but that purpose ended in the early 90's. It's being repurposed just like every other gov't program that outlives its usefulness.
w/o question....
their function is now as worthless as that law on the books making it illegal to spit on the sidewalk....or a shiteload of other ridiculous laws now being created daily.....
I don't think this nearly as much about racism as it is about the EU Eurocrats meddling too much in internal affairs of member nations, where they don't belong. The problem on both sides of the pond is that governments have been busy working not for the people, but to perpetuate themselves and increase their powers, intruding into far too many places that they don't belong. Government doesn't belong in bedrooms, nor in vaginas, nor in picking winners and losers in the economy. Government needs to get back to being of the people, by the people, and for the people, instead of becoming increasingly for the bureaucrats, by the bureaucrats, and of the bureaucrats. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Wealth chases power, and power chases wealth, which is why we and Europe have both become increasingly corporatist states. We need more power returned from government to people. Within the government sphere, we need more power devolved from federal to state level, and from state to local level. And at each level, we need more power returned from executive bureaucracies to legislative branches. This vote is about Europe needing that. But we need it here, as well.
(06-24-2016 04:33 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote: So what if Russia invades the Baltics?
If there are Balkan states seriously worried about that, they should join NATO and take part financially and participation wise in their Russian defense. If NATO won't accept them, well then that says a lot doesn't it?
He said "Baltic" states-meaning Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. All 3 are NATO and EU members.
As for the Balkans, Bulgaria, Romania, Alabania, Croatia, Slovenia and most recently, Montenegro are NATO members. Macedonia and Bosnia-Hercegovina are on a path to membership.
Bosnia is around a decade from membership (issues regarding human rights, governance, and Republika Srbska). Macedonia is even further out (human rights and Greece/Cyprus are opposed) . Turkey - keeps moving further and further away from membership (now jailing people for facebook posts). Montenegro is probably the only non-EU Balkan country that can reasonably expect accession in the next decade. Serbia (which will have to sort out its relationship with Kosovo) is probably ahead of Macedonia.
The accession/candidate process gives the EU a LOT of leverage. No EU, no leverage. I'd argue that the 'carrot' of EU membership has done quite a bit to keep the peace. Mainly because it really helps minorities. The Macedonians know if they go after their Albanian minority, they'll get hit back by the EU (and not just with accession - with trade and visas). The Serbs know that if they misbehave too badly, they'll end up with more problems with the EU. The tendency in the Balkans is for politicians to appeal to raw nationalism when they get into a jam. A strong EU really tamps that down. Because if you misbehave, your population will not get those visas and your exporters will not get that access. And that, even in the Balkans, trumps most nationalism. And more importantly, it keeps outside parties from stoking the fires of nationalism in order to pursue their own agendas.
There's an argument that even without the EU, there'd be other mechanisms in place, such as the Council of Europe and the European Court of Human Rights that could accomplish the same thing. But the COE and the ECHR don't do punitive measures. For example, Russia or Armenia will commit some gross violation, get sued, get convicted, and then get a fine of 1,000 Euros. Which isn't a deterrent. And both the COE and the ECHR negotiate fines and penalties with the convicted party. Its an extremely poor substitute.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2016 09:01 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
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